Trad Gang
Main Boards => Trad History/Collecting => Topic started by: joebuck on August 26, 2009, 08:38:00 AM
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Does anyone make a knock off? If not I'm thinking about commisioning a knife maker to duplicate me one..Has anyone else done this? thanks
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After seeing and reading the thread about these I too would be interested in seeing what is out there. Anyone????
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Hi Guys,
It so happens I am getting together the components to build kits which would be similar but not identical to the Bear Archery kits. I will use Western 648 fixed blade knife that Bear used as well as norton carbo hone stones and a broadhead file (fine mill basterd cut).
I know there will be some differences (ie size of stone, color of leathers, file handles etc.) I will try to faithfully copy the Bear Set, but it will not be identical in every respect.
I will be forced to use vintage(read Used) Western Knives, as Western Knife is no more. but I have enough materials to make three sets as of now. I will be starting with in the next week. I will keep you guys posted on my progress.
I did make up a set of my own creation many years ago. It is shown on the "Bowhunters Kit" Thread. Used a Westcut Knife, diamond lap hone stick and a file with an antler handle. Check it out!
Thanks,
Harry.
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Harry,
You did a super job on the sheath in the set you made with the Westcut Knife... I am impressed with the quality of the leather, your forming of the leather and your stitching... Very professional... http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=001473;p=2#000016
If you want, I would be happy to send you an original plastic file handle for you to use as a template in making your reproduction file handles. Just let me know your mailing address and I'll get it right out to you.
Also be sure to let me now if there is anything you can think of that I may be able to help you out with such as information or original samples.
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Would be nice to have one of the first kits with a Marbles Sport Knife, would make a great working knife for the kit, but alittle wider handle & blade on this knife but all around nicer to use.
I'd take two for sure.........Hink
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Wade,
I would like to get a look at that file handle! I am not sure if i would try to resin mold one or just use the material I have on hand, antler or possibly some osage or tiger maple. I would like to make it near the orginal size though!
I was impressed with Bowdoc's version of the file handle! Very creative.
I'll PM you with my address.
Harry.
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JavalinaHink,
You are on the list. I'll post pics when I get the first one completed. (it's already spoken for!)I'll Be in touch via PM soon. We'll see if I can find a Marbles sport Knife.
Thanks,
Harry
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Harry,
Sent you the Bear file handle today. Let me know if there is anything else I may be able to help you with.
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Harry, I liked your kit as well on the thread Wade references above.
After doing one of my own a while back I have a real appreciation for the talent it takes to properly stitch leather.
Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Here's mine, now don't laugh, I'm a beginner. :bigsmyl:
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa277/DUCK_TRAP/FirstDayofSchool09017.jpg)
Trap
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Wade.......your mail is full....Hink
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Daryl- that's a real, real nice first effort. Bowdoc and I are talking about collaborating on a limited number of these things as well. Moose Rancich has Fred's last kit and has pictures of it on his Fred Bear/ Frank Scott page. If we make a few, they'll be copies of it. You know, Mr. Bear's start in archery was through leather products that he made himself- at least initially- and his kit is a little different than the production model. Moose's page is definitely worth a look. Grant
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Trap - That is really a nice looking sheath. Far better than anything I could ever hope to put together. I don't know what your experience is with the Western 648, but I have found them to be incapable of holding an edge beyond the point of cutting the notches in my tag immediately after killing an animal. Would be nice if the blade could be replaced with one of quality steel that would be truly usable in the field.
Grant - Yes, now you are talking my language...
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Thanks guys, it was a fun project.
Wade, I have two 648s and the older one (pictured) seems to have better steel than the newer of the two.
I agree, neither would be my choice for a hunting knife. I suppose, if it's in the sheath, sharpening tools arent far away.
Grant, I just took a look at Fred's knife kit. That's cool. When you and Doc start making them, count me in for one. I figure you and Doc will get the first two made and since Wade spoke for one ahead of me, I'll be happy with serial number D&G004 ;)
Trap
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Trap - It would be great if someone here had a hardness tester so we could send them knives and get an accurate comparison of the steel in these knives. The little dimple imprint from a tester would be worth it to know the hardness of the steel.
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Grant, I would be interested in buying a sheath or two when you get these going. I have several sets of original components waiting to go in them. I've wanted to comission a local guy to do this for several years, and have never gotten around to it. Please keep in touch. Thanks CKruse
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Grant & Doc- You know you can count me in on one of your custom knife sets.I'm thinking a Puma Hunter's Pal or a Marbles instead of the Western.
I'll be D&G005.
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Trap,
Nuthin wrong with that effort at all! If that was your first go at it, you need only a little practice and you could go "pro"! Nice job.
Harry
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You guys know Bowdoc- when I get him to get around to it we'll all know about it, LOL. He's headed for the Cascades for a month and we intend to hash the rest of it out on his return. The serial numbers sound like a good idea also. Should be fun; it'd be great fun if they were easier to make. Harry's set looks nice as well; I wouldn't mind having one of those. Grant
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Yeah I want one of Harry's also. Knives are kinda like bows. Can't have too many.
Trap
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Hi Wade,
Just wanted to let you know I got the Bear File and Handle. It arrived with a chip out of the handle, I didnt see a chip in the package, I hope to God it was chipped before you sent it to me. If not I will try to get you a replacement for it. I am sorry.
I got all of the dimensions off of the handle and I have a few of the Nicholson Bastard files on hand, so I am ready to get going on the project.
Let me know about the file handle! I will pack up this one and send it back to you.
Thanks
Harry
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Hello Harry,
Forgot to mention the file handle had a chip out of it. That is the way I got it in a set. Guessing someone tried to use a little too much force to remove the handle from the file. When I find one that is really stubborn, I just leave the original file attached rather then mess it up like that one. It really doesn't look bad in a sheath, but it can not be used in its present state.
If you want to keep the file handle until after you get some made up that is fine. It might be useful for a comparison. There is no rush to get it back to me. Feel free to keep it awhile.
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Well,
The first of my interpretations of the Bear Bowhunters Kit will be finished in a day or so. I think it is looking pretty good, you guys will have to be the judge! I'll post pics as soon as I can.
I will have to make minor adjustments in the pattern, before I start the other two kits I have materials for though. Thanks for being patient!
Harry.
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To remove the handle on a Bear file, just put it in hot water for a few minutes, and they slide right off. Stick the new file in before it cools and you are good to go.
Semi-Chrome paste will clean some pretty nasty ones into jems too.
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Hello Folks,
Well, I have pics of the first "Knock-Off" Bear Bowhunters Kit I put together. As I said before, I have materials for three like this. Using Vintage (used) Western #648 knives, Vintage(nearly new)Norton Hone Stones and new Broadhead file with an antler handle. Of course the sheaths will be new, hand stitched using tooling leather rather than the lighter leather the origionals used. This one is marked #1 and is spoken for, they will be $150.00 each Plus $6.00 USPS mailing.
I have a list of those who expressed interest and will e-mail them first thing. Anyone else interested, PM me.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/takedown/IMG_0817.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/takedown/IMG_0807-1.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/takedown/IMG_0808.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/takedown/IMG_0815.jpg)
I will be aquiring more #648 knives and I have a source for more Norton stones of a slightly smaller size, 3" long rather than 4" long. I will use these in future kits. (at least for the time being).
Thanks,
I hope you like them!
Harry.
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Very Nice!!!!!
Harry, do you have a price set for just the sheath without components?
Trap
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Harry,
The kit looks great....very professional work and good quality materials.
Hold my place in line.
Billy
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super job,it looks great :thumbsup: . pm sent.
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I'm interested in a sheath or two. How much for them? Thanks, CKruse
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Trap and ckruse,
Sorry I havn't responded sooner. I should be able to do this, I assume it would be for the #648 knife and a standard size norton stone(which are damm rare and hard to find! 7/8"x4"x1/4")? Be aware that all of the Western Knives vary somewhat in size around the handle and finger guard area depending on if grip was delrin-"Stag", delrin-"Bone", stacked leather or actual bone, or actual stag (both rare).
All of these knives were finished by hand for final grinding and polishing, so even the blade width and guard width and shape can be different.
No CNC back in the early days in Boulder!
Let me think on pricing and I will bet back to you.
Harry
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Harry- Great Job! These things are a b*&%$ to build and you've done an outstanding job. Guys, there is no way anything I put together is going to look better than this. The price for the whole kit is very, very fair. Actually, its a bargain. :thumbsup: Grant
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Hello Grant,
Thanks for the kind words! I am working with veg. tanned tooling leather, so sewing by hand is tough! Your right. But I think the end result will be a tougher longer lasting "user" sheath.
I hope you guys like 'em. As I stated above Please, every one interested realize that #1 the Knives are used, and show some wear, but all are in good to great using shape. The stones will be the vintage used or vintage "new" if I can find them, otherwise I will use new Norton stones which are 3" long rather than 4" as in the origionals, and Lastly, the files will be new with an antler handle, I may use a hardwood in the future but I have a good supply of smaller (sigh!) deer racks to cut up!
I am currently working on sets #2, #3 and #4. They are spoken for, but more to come. I will also have sets sometime in the future using knives larger than the #648's as originally used.
Thanks a lot!
Harry.
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ttt
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Still wondering about a sheath or two made to original dimensions? CKruse
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Here are a few more knock off sets that I saw earlier this month at the Labor Day Weekend shoot of the Nebraska Traditional Archers. They are made by a fellow who lives in Central Nebraska, a couple hours west of my place. He may even chime in here...
There are probably more guys making these knock off sets than we are aware of right now. Each bowman in his own way keeping the tradition alive.
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/c1e673f3.jpg)
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/fb1a5873.jpg)
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Wade.. those are very cool... I need to get one...
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I had so much fun doing my first one, I had to try again.
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa277/DUCK_TRAP/PumaHuntersPal002.jpg)
Trap
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Trap -
Wow, you did a great job on the Puma Set, I really like it. You used an original Hunter's Pal too, just like Fred's.
You even put the Puma trademark, extra leather boot lace on it, and even tied it in the Puma knot... Very fancy, I am impressed.
I have two Hunter's Pal knives like Fred's. May have to talk with you about making up a sheath like yours for the Hunter's Pal that I don't use.
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Thanks Wade, I'm sure we could work something out.
The sheath that was with my Hunter's Pal was literally falling apart so I robbed a few parts off of it. I'll have to check the web to find a brass stud that holds the strap in place. A snap would have been sufficient but I was trying to keep with the Puma theme.
I felt the knife really needed the Puma knot to prevent it from getting lost.
If I do it again there will be other minor tweaking necessary. I wish the knife set down in the sleave a little better.
Trap
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great job Trap, :thumbsup: that set looks great!
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Nice work Trap!!
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Wade, I'm working on one right now for my randall
knife and afew other things. I'll try to send pictures went finished. I've been making these for about 10 years now, all my friends are carrying them and seem to like them. you saw some of them at fremont. I have 4 648's at this
time, I'm alittle slower than you young fellows.
Jim
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Nice job Trap!
I have used brass studs as found on the Puma Sheaths. Got mine at our Local Tandy Leather store. Couple of different sizes available.You can order online too! ( If I am remembering correctly, they are called "Sam Brown studs",
as used on Police Officers Sam Brown Belts!)
There is somthing really satisfying about leather working, especially if it is for a practical, useful project, Whats more practical than a Bowhunters Kit!
Again, great job!
Harry.
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Thanks guys,
You're right Harry, there is something really satisfying about working with leather.
and Harry, thanks for the info on the Sam Brown studs, I just looked them up online and they are readily available.
Trap
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good looking stuff there guy's very nice work.bd
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I received my "Don't KNOCK my Knock-Off Knife Kit" today from Harry, and all I can say is "WOW"!! :notworthy:
>>--Ron--<>
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I recieved 2 Bowhunter Kits from Harry today.....one for me, the other for a cousin.
The pictures of Harry's work don't give the kits the justice deserved.
Everything is top quality, and the craftsmansip is superb.
No one will be disappointed with Harry's work, but you may be disappointed in the time it takes to get one from now on, as I'm sure his backlog is growing every day since the word is out on the top quality, and the great price.
Thanks for a great product Harry.
Billy
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That's good news Billy; I'm in the hunt. Can't wait................Shick
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I picked up an original knife and file set with sheath and stone today. unused condition, made my day.
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Hi Billy,
Glad the kits arrived! Also happy you like them. Thnks for the kind words.
Shick, you are on "The List"! I am getting more kits started this week. Be patient, and thanks for all the interest!
Harry