Trad Gang
Main Boards => Trad History/Collecting => Topic started by: Trooper on August 08, 2009, 09:18:00 PM
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Now that I've been bit pretty hard by the Super K bug, I was wondering, does anyone know if ole Fred hunted with a Super K, anyone has pictures of him with one. I've seen pictures of him with many of his other bows but none that I remember with a Super K.
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I believe the cover of the Archers Bible,one of the earlier editions,shows Fred shooting a Super Kodiak.
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Is this the cover?
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv341/bowhunterfrompast/Posted%20pics/scan0001-22.jpg) (http://s698.photobucket.com/user/bowhunterfrompast/media/Posted%20pics/scan0001-22.jpg.html)
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In Fred's "Field Notes" he seemed to use that year's bow in that year's hunt. The next year he used the lastest Kodiak and so on. The last hunt in the book was in Brazil in 1967 and a couple of the B&W pictures show what looks like a Super K in them. You can only see the profile though but I'd have to assume it was due to the other years photos. Unless of course the hunt was before the Super K was introduced in 1967.
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THAT is what a bowhunter is supposed to look like! Just to take that photo apart piece by piece. Bow / quiver / arrows etc.
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Yes,that's the cover I was thinking of.
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Heres a ('68?) super K on the album cover. It's a staged hollywood pic though.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=002911
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The Super Kodiak was introduced in 1967 1/2. A mid year introduction. According to Dick Lattimer in the the book "I remember Papa Bear", it was introduced as "Fred Bears personal hunting bow". In the book it speaks of Fred using the bow for African Lion, Cape Buffalo, Polar Bear, Grizzly Bear, Mule Deer, Whitetail Deer. I know I have seen photos of the Polar Bear and Fred with the 67.5 Super K.
It also says the bow sold for $99.95 with a carrying case. If anyone has a new 67 1/2 Super Kodiak with the carrying case, I will gladly pay you full retail price! :D
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The 99.00 price tag was the base price. Dealers used that to base discounts. I think I actually paid $62,50 for mine in 1968...a '68 model.
If I recall correctly, the '64 Kodiak listed for $50 and I paid $32.50 for mine.
Man, wish I could get those bows for those prices now.
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I believe the bow Fred shot his polar bear with was a 1966 Kodiak.He had the back painted white for camoflage.I seem to remember that bow on display at the Michigan Cabela's store when it first opened.Riser was brownish in color as was the belly glass.His lion was taken in 1965 I believe with a regular Kodiak model.Don't know if he used a 1967 1/2 Super K on any other animals,I don't recall seeing any photos of him with one with an animal but then again I haven't really looked for any.Somebody will post them if they're around.
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The Polar Bear hunt was in 66. But, I am quite certain from the things I have read that it was a Super Kodiak. Fred used the bow that would be coming out to the public the next year for his hunts. I think his tiger was killed in 1962 with a 63 dogleg Kodiak.
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Here is an advertizing poster from Bear Archery showing some of Fred's personal bows in color.The second bow from the top shows Fred's 1966 Kodiak with white painted limbs that he used to kill his polar bear.This is the same bow I remember seeing at Cabelas on display.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/detroitdeerslyer/Fredsbows.jpg)
In Fred Bear's Field Notes book,chapter 10,India 1963 starts out with "In the spring of 1963 a New York photographer and I went to India to hunt tigers and make a film of the event."
According to the same book Fred went to Mocambique in 1964 and again in 1965.In 1965 he shot both a Cape Buffalo and an African Lion.In pictures I have seen his bow does not appear to be a 1967 1/2 Super Kodiak.These hunts were a little before the introduction of the Super K.
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Man! Look at all the lefties!!!!
Tom i.
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The bow of the cover of the "Archer's Bible" is not a stock Super K though it is phenolic with many of the same appointments. Look carefully at the lower paert of the riser overlay and you'll see that this bow squares off even more than the '65 and '66 Kodiaks and the limb is wide wher it meets the handle section. The Super Ks are very narrow in this section- obviously a prototype....Grant
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Grant-You are right.I knew when I looked at that photo that something looked funny.At first I wasn't sure if it was a '67 1/2 Super K.It is very square in that area compared to most all 1967 1/2 Super K's I have seen.I am looking at a broken one right now and that area of the bow is very narrow.Good eye.
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If anyone has the "Field Notes" check the photos of the 1967 Brazil hunt and see if you can tell anything from them. They are too dark and grainy B&W photos.
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Great pic John. Which one would you pick Tom???? As a lefty I might go for either the top one or the bottom one. What is the bow 3rd from the top? TD?
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John,
I like the top one too....looks close to a '59-60
Kodiak. Yeah, I think the middle bow is an experimental take-down....seems I've read where he took one to Africa but decided against production...possibly because it looks like it requires a tool to take it down. He wanted a take down that didn't require tools...
Tom I.
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Well I am all wet! My books must be touting more propoganda than fact. I watched a video today of Fred talking about his personal bow. A takedown he said he used since 1965. And, that was right from the man himself.
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Fred did use a take-down bow in the 1960's,one of his early proto-types.He was doing some field testing before going public with them in the 1970 catalog.
I have pictures of Fred with an Asiatic water buffalo he shot in Brazil in 1967 or 1968 and a moose he also shot in the late 1960's,both with a take-down bow.Not sure on the year of the moose hunt,I'll do some more research.He was with his good friend and hunting partner on both hunts,Bob Munger.
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This is an interesting question – did Fred Bear kill anything with the 67½ Super Kodiak?
I must admit that in all the years of studying Fred Bear photos, I can’t recall ever seeing Fred holding that specific year/model Super Kodiak with a game animal. A number of promotional photos of Fred with a 67½ Super Kodiak do exist, including the cover shot on Fred’s “Archer’s Bible.” Here are a couple more.
The first is Fred with my old Utah friend Jim Pickering.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/FredwithMan.jpg)
And here’s another of Fred shooting yet another all-black Super Kodiak, quite possibly the same one pictured on the "Archer's Bible" cover.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/FredShootingColor.jpg)
I’ve seen a few other promotional-type photographs of Fred with a 67½ Super Kodiak, but nothing with a game animal. I wonder – and I’m just speculating here – if at the time the 67½ Super Kodiak was developed if Fred’s bowhunting wasn’t slowing down a bit. He would have been 65 years old that year, with much of his globe-trotting bowhunting behind him. It’s possible that he just didn’t have a bowhunt planned that year, or that he was already working on and hunting with take-down prototypes.
I do know for a fact that Fred did cut down the grip on at least one 67½ Super Kodiak to fit his personal shooting style, as was his custom with all of the Kodiaks he had personally hunted with since about 1961. I know that because that particular cut-down 67½ Super Kodiak hung, along with 3 or 4 of Fred’s other grip-modified Kodiaks, on the wall in my office when I worked at Bear Archery in the early 1990s. I pulled those bows out of a pile of dusty old relics that Frank Scott had relegated to a locked area in the back of the Bear warehouse. What's happened to those Fred Bear bows since then is anyone’s guess. I sure wish I had them. Maybe Bass Pro Shops now does.
That Super Kodiak, as I recall, looked a lot like the following Super Kodiak, other than Fred's bow was left-handed. This right-hand model, it’s rumored, belongs to a Trad Gang Contributor with the initials G.Y., who must have a very sharp jackknife as the Bear Hi Compression material used in the 67½ Super Kodiaks is incrediably hard stuff.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/GrantYoungsSuperKodiakModifiedGrip.jpg)
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Bill- Interesting pics of Fred with his 67 1/2 Super K.I was thinking of a possible reason why there are no photos of Fred with game taken with a 67 1/2 Super K but then after reading your post further you said what I was thinking.Fred was developing his take-down during that same time and I think it was his preferred bow to use.Nothing else like it had ever been made before then and Fred was a smart businessman.I believe he knew it was a good idea.It was the bow he was seen with most right up until he died in 1988.Can't blame him for liking it,that's for sure.
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Has anyone ever compiled a list of the successful bowhunts Fred went on by year, and included the model bow he used on each of those hunts?
Mating that list with actual success photos clearly showing the bow used would then add substantially to the interest and education factors.
Wade, or someone, should do a Bear bow book, and add that sort of supplemental information.
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(http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu197/TradBowKid/FredBear1967kod089.jpg)
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TimberlineX - I have a partial draft of the book you suggest. Also have extensive notes on Fred's Hunts and equipment. You are correct, showing the hunting photograph and correctly identifying the bow used on each hunt is the ideal method.
Cody - Nice photograph. Can you read what the silk screen says on the upper limb? The silk screen is different than the 1967-1/2 Super Kodiak silk screens on that year's Super Kodiaks that I have.
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Wade I tryed to blow the silk screen up but it's worst then in this photo.. Maybe I have the wrong bow.. If so I can remove the photo.. Thanks for pointing that out to me Wade,
Cody
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Cody - I believe you have the correct photograph, I just want to know what is actually written on that bow... Please don't remove your photograph, it is great!
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Fred used the protype TD in 1964 to take a Buffalo in Africa. The bow had a lever, similar to a O/U shotgun. There is a picture in Trad Gang of the patent. Because of the high expense, it was never put into production. I believe that is the first recorded hunt with the TD.
I think the Lion, taken in 1965 was with a 1966 kodiak. In one book it was 65#, but according to Fred's account of sitting in the blind, his 66# Kodiak was on the ground in front of him. The Elephant was taken with a 64", 75# Kodiak. He may have used the 67 1/2 Kodiak in Africa.
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Bear with a white period under, followed by Super, followed by Kodiak. It does not appear to have Glass Powered, under Bear as on my 68 Super Kodiak. The 68 also is cutout below the handle, similar to the sight window, and is below the cap and backstrap. Maybe it is a protype of the 67 1/2 or 68 that never reached production. The first picture looks like the fall hunt in Michigan with all the colors.
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Wade, the more I look at that photo it looks to me it said's Bear Archery then under that said
Super Kodiak.. That I am sure of but it's not the first time I have been wrong so I am not a 100%..
Cody
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Bill- you got me thinking about which bows accounted for what animals. I can't remember without reference material how complete Dick Lattimer's list of Mr. Bear's big game kills is (if it included dates) but I have a copy of Nebraskaland magazine featuring an article and pictures of his hunts over the years with Dick Mauch and later his wife Carol and several of the pictures show him using a phenolic Super K in '66 or '67. As I recall, a local who hunted with him-a game warden whose name escapes me at the moment- related details of the hunt and stated that Bear was "horn hunting" on that trip and missed what I took to be a trophy. The bow on that hunt appears to be a conventionally designed Super, still all black phenolic. I'll look this up this evening when I get home and let you all know if it offers any insight. I recall reading Lattimer's list of Bear's kills and thinking that while it was impressive, it wasn't especially so by today's standards- except of course for the elephant, tiger, etc. and other virtually out of reach exotics. It lists eighteen whitetails for instance, and that number covered a lot of years. I'm sure there were years in which hunting was very limited due to health and business concerns as well as the time involved in pursuing the more spectacular trophies. That would be interesting research- I might give it a shot. GY
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I forgot to mention the great picture of Bear and Pickering (Mr. Perfect Score. The Super K in that picture looks to be the end design while the bow in Bill's second photo shows the "odd-ball" that Iwould bet is the same bow on the Archer's Bible cover. BTW, Bill, I don't have a knife that'll cut that stuff. I used a coping saw and sent it off to Don for cosmetic surgery. GY
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I just thought of an animal that may have fallen to this model and I bet some of you can remember the photo. It appeared on an Easton Hunting Arrow catalogue around 1980. There are several pictures including one of Larry Jones and an elk. The pictur is of Fred and a good Alaskan moose. The equipment listed was a Bear 65# Super Kodiak, date or model year not given, and a Bear/Easton .320 Magnum arrow. Too bad the bow isn't really featured in the photo. GY
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Grant,
I gotta ask a bunch of questions about your grip-modified Super Kodiaks.
First, are you shooting off your knuckle like Fred or just close to it and off a rug rest?
Plus, how hard was the Hi-Compression material to cut, even with a coping saw? And how much did you work the grip down before sending it off to ‘Ol Don for the final face lift? Did you happen to photograph the entire step-by-step transformation? Did Don complain a lot when he got the bow?
And most of all, how do the bows now shoot? I'm thinking about doing something similar to a 1966 and maybe a 1967½. My wife has threatened to kill me if I try it with my shooter F. B. Signature.
By chance, is this the Fred Bear moose you’re referring to? This one was taken, I seem to recall, on a Bear Archery sales hunt in Alaska, and the bow Fred used was clearly a TD.
Bill Krenz
Colorado
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/ForSaleJune090III046.jpg)
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Bill- I shoot off my knuckle, actually the arrow passes over my hand between the middle and primary knuckle. All my bows are like this and have been for over thirty years. Performance is fine- every bit as good as any shelf arrangement so long as the other components of the shot are executed properly; release, back tension, etc. The phenolic really isn't much tougher than the futurewood and both are difficult to work down. The first bow I did this to after I'd seen a rare picture of Mr. Bear's setup when I was a kid was a '65 Kodiak and I shaved it down with a four-in-hand rasp over a period of a few days- cut a little-shoot a little until I felt it should be about right. The phenolic and future wood prompted me to use a fine saw and carefully cut down the major portion and the rasp and sand the edges back flush. Normally, I cut the height down and narrow the remaining ledge to my preference before I send them to Don but the bow you posted a picture of was a different story. I had a '68 that I'd cut down and Don had refinished that delammed along the lower nosecap and I found this one on the auction site and snatched it up. It was rough-looked like it had spent its life behind a farmer's pickup seat- but it had 0 stress. I was sending Bowdoc something else at the time and I hurriedly hacked the shelf down to my preferred level and sent her off. I could hear (or feel) him cussing me all the way from Seattle. My main takedown is a Style I that not only has the shelf lowered and narrowed pretty much all by me and cleaned up by Don, but also is radically altered through the palm swell and the heel section of the grip to the point that it more closely resembles a Gainesville handle with a profile very similar to a '63 Kodiak, my favorite grip. Don did all of that and did a fantastic job. But there is no actual shelf left to speak of. All that started years ago when I was a kid emulating his archery hero and I really am not comfortable shooting any other type of arrangement though I more or less can. Owen Jeffery told me once that he preferred my arrangement over a shelf rug because my flesh was more like the elevated rest he preferred in that it gave or could flex a little as the arrow launched. I couldn't say whether that's the case or not. I do know that I never encouraged anyone to adopt the method or alter a bow in that way because once done, obviously, its done for good and all. Its just an idiosyncrasy on my part. I never even wanted my sons to adopt my method; I set their equipment up with either rug rests or elevated weatherest type arrangements. All seven of my hunting bows- the ones I actually use- are set up pretty much identically except for my styleII that has more shelf width than I really like because of the extreme "S" shape of the riser. What won't work very well is lowering the shelf a little bit and propping the index finger up across the front of the shelf- for some reason that causes erratic arrow flight and can actually hurt over time. At least that was my experience when I was a teenager and tried it last. I'm so wedded to this weirdness that I wouldn't hesitate a minute to cut down any bow I intended to shoot and hunt with regulary but that's a level of committment that someone would have to be as nuts as me to maintain,LOL. BTW- Don Ward is the ONLY person to date to whom I'd just send a bow to and never worry or wonder if he would get it right- he's seen and shot my bows and I couldn't get a better job done anywhere except possibly in Bear's custom shop of the 60s.
In regard to the above photo, no, that isn't the picture I was referring to. The picture I alluded to was of Fred standing/leaning against a very impressive bull in the late sixties on a hunt also recorded by Bob Munger. I spoke to Wade last night and tried to date the easton catalogue that specified bow model (except for year) bow weight, and Easton arrow used. I believe it was '80 or '81 but I can't be sure. I know the picture was dated earlier than the catalogue because the caption listed Super Kodiak as the bow, 65# as the bow weight, and Bear/Easton Magnum .320 as the arrow. Metric Magnums were the then current Bear offering. The bow is completely unidentifiable in the picture as it is lying lengthwise on the back of the bull which is facing the camera so all you can tell is that it's a recurve bow. I've got a copy of Munger's book that I have loaned to someone so I can't scan or give a page reference at the moment but the bull in the Easton catalogue and Munger's book would thash the little fellow in the above photo and neve stop browsing. I apologise to the tradgangers that had to endure the length of this post but I couldn't answer the questions very well and be more brief. GY
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Bill- one other thing to watch on the 67 1/2 Super- go slowly and cautiously on the belly side of the shelf ledge when or if you cut it back. The process can cause minor cracking lengthwise at the top of the throat directly under the point where the sight window and the shelf ledge meet. It usually isn't a real problem and can be stopped with a little india ink and loc-tite. Most of the old phenolics have spider web like stress fracture in the grip and palm swell areas any way and this is not really any worse than that. Bowdaddy can make it all go away, LOL. Before you do this, I'll send you one of mine to shoot if you like and you can see for yourself before making the move on one of your personal beauties. Serious offer, let me know. GY
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Grant I gotta ask a bunch of questions about your grip modified Super Kodiaks ????? how's about these Bill.They just seen to shoot better for me too.And a soon to be modified Super Kodiak I picked up last weekend.I love that bow.bd (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/b648.jpg) (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/b624.jpg) (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/tds001.jpg)
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Not bad for an old hippy Bowdaddy, LOL. This kind of reminds me of our conversation yesterday- the bows just feel different and as your friend suggested, actually shoot or balance a little differently as well, dontcha think? BTW- those red tips were fubarred in the lower limb. Shucks, Grant
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Nice bunch of SK's there BD!
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Don,
I’ve longed whittled away at bow grips, trying to get them to feel just right for me. Usually, that’s meant cutting, rasping and sanding them so that my bowhand moved up and closer to the arrow. The method you and Grant are using to cut down through the factory shelf to accomplish the same thing is fascinating, and actually seems closer to what Fred Bear did with his bows. Your fairly recent thread on the step-by-step process involved in cutting down a 1964 Kodiak’s grip is a gem. I’ve printed off that entire thread and filed it away for reference. Good stuff.
I must admit that I’m not quite sure that I’m ready to cut the shelf down on my shooter bows so much that I shoot directly off of my knuckle or finger like Fred or Grant. I’d need to try that first. But I do like to get things down to the point where a minimum amount of arrow shelf remains, as appears to be the case with your green-stripe TD. That amount of careful butchery looks good to me.
Somewhere I’ve got a few photos of Fred’s cut-down bow grips and his shooting style, and I guess I should dig those out and share them. In the mean time, I’m encouraged by your grip modifications to know that I’m not completely nuts to chop up old bows, modifying their grips to better suit me (although I suppose the other way to look at this is that I’m just as nuts as you two). Cutting up old classic bows is not for everyone, but it works for me on those bows I plan to seriously shoot. And from the looks of your photos, you’re even bolder and certainly much better at it than me.
Now if we could just thin the shelf on a 1959/1960 appreciably to achieve more centershot, we’d be styling!
Bill Krenz
Colorado
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My name is Grant, LOL. Thanks to Dan,err, Don, my bows haven't suffered too badly from my compulsion. Frankly, before I became aware of and met Bowdoc my alterations were pretty crude, especially in comparison with the great job he's done on them since. I'm not a collector in the sense that many on this site are. I rarely buy or even want to own bows that I don't intend to shoot and my field of interest so far as that goes is sort of narrow. I enjoy looking at your bows or Don's or Wade's as much as I would if I owned them myself. I only get excited about a few models from specific years because those particular bows shoot well for me and appeal to me aesthetically. I don't feel as though my personal bows are worth less because of the modifications (some collectors do), on the contrary, they are worth far more to me like this than they ever were in the original form. My heirs can figure out how to deal with that. BTW- Don isn't opposed to shaving a little sight window meat out of a 1960, are you Bowdoc, LOL?
Grant
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I seen one of what is or was one of Fred's personal bows(1959 Kodiak)and the bow had almost no shelf at all.It was a very tiny piece of shelf left on the bow that was under the web of Fred's hand.
OK so being a nut case when it comes to bows myself.I happen to have a 40 + pound(maybe 47 as I recall) 1959 Kodiak at home and I figured what the heck I went home a cut my 1959 Kodiak to be a somewhat of a very good match to Fred's personal shooter.The next day the finished I used to repair where I had been cutting filing and sanding was dry.I took the bow out in my yard for a little test shooting making note the shelf was well below the web of my hand as well but I was amped up like a kid with a new toy.
The first arrow struck the bullseye deadnuts at 20 yards no joke a bullseye.It was shooting right on the money and now I was even more amped up.
I thought wow there must be something to this modifcation and I was more the pleased with the way the bow shot it was great.I was going to go home and cut all my personal bows so the shelf was cut off so I could be like old freddie.
However Bill did I forget to mention by the time I dug cut but no filing this time with a pocket knife the pieces of a unglued feather that got just burried into the web of my hand ? holy smokes I never did that to a bow again and actually sold that 59 as soon as I could.Now I lieve enough shelf its just above the web of my hand.Good griff man the friggen feather implant hurt like a SOB.bd
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Don and GRANT – I’ve wondered about that feather-imbedding thing!
I once stuck my finger up with a low-poundage 1957 Kodiak just to try the arrangement of arrow-off-finger. Gotta be like Fred.
Never did that again! Hurt like the dickens! I was shooting a MicroFlite shaft and between the impact of the feather’s quill and the abrasion from the shaft, it felt like it set my finger on fire. Fred’s finger must have had a callous on it like the sole of an African bushman’s foot. Grant, how do you manage that? You made of fireproof iron?
Bill
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Grant, I have an Easton catalog with the pictures you mention; It is has a copyright of '76. Same pictures are used on the '81 Easton Chart also. Doesn't date the bow but it's a start. Your bows are looking fine..............Shick
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Man, this topic sure has taken a positive turn. Grant, Bowdoc, TimberlineX, Shick; you guys are a wealth of info. I'm soaking up everything you say. Thanks for sharing; this is great stuff!!
Murray
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Aw shucks, Murray, thanks. Bill, that finger up stuff hurts like h***. Too late now but, DON'T DO IT,LOL. I have hand's like baby. Actually, there is a slick callous that is really just an eraser sized slick spot just in front of the big knuckle at the base of my index finger but it is very slight and not at all thick. I build my own arrows, burn the fletch, and watch out for quill lift. Believe me, if it hurt I'd have scrapped it. It just took me a little while to get it figured out. Shick- thanks for the compliments on my old beaters. Any and all credit goes to Bowdoc. I'm a little surprised at the interest they have generated- over the years most folks just wrote it off as weird. Anyhow, the next keeper I find will get pictures taken of the process- I'll record what I do and then Bowdoc can show everyone how to make it look alright. If we can get him to do it, that is- he's keeps his secrets pretty close to the chest,LOL. Thanks for finding that photo- shame it doesn't show the bow more clearly. Grant
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Grant,
NOW you tell me!
Bill
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shoot, Bill, that sounds like a good excuse to go Bear Huntin' in Quebec..... :readit: :bigsmyl:
:campfire:
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Good idea Fatman. Something about Quebec just sharpens a guy up, doesn't it? Grant
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Grant, I have been interested in doing this with my bow, because I am well accustom to shooting a longbow with a narrow rest. It is easier to point when the arrow is closer to the index finger and I think it would be easier to two different bows if the arrow is closer to the hand.
There is a picture of Fred's TD on the cover of TB and it appears to have a shelf that is maybe 1/4 wide without a rest. Do you know if his arrow touched the rest? Does your's touch the shelf? You explaination was great, I just wanted to clarify the point. How wide is your shelf? Would you be able to post a picture from the belly side? Thanks for the help.
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Hud- The bow points a little better for me, maybe, but mainly my personal method is about confidence whether or not its justified. Old habits die hard. I'm sure at some point long ago I was convinced or claimed to be convinced that the arrow on my hand was more accurate than it would be at some point above it but as I've gotten older I have begun to suspect that it doesn't make much difference at all as long as the shooter has adjusted him or herself to the arrangement. It does "feel" different though and that is awfully important to me. I recently contacted Moose (Milan) who owns Fred's old takedown that was on the cover of TBM and got the dimensions from him for the sake of curiosity. This bow has a little more shelf on it than the bows from Mr. Bear's most productive hunting years but not much. The remaining ledge on that bow is 2 1/16" long, front to back, and 1/2 " wide. Its 3/4 to 1 " lower than the first production models. My personal bows have shelves slightly narrower and are otherwise the same. I'll post some pictures of my setup or better yet PM them to you. I'd point out that this isn't a recommendation for my set up- its not better in anyway I can determine, its just a little different and odd these days. It does work though. I'll take those photos this weekend and send them to you. Grant
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Grant, thanks for your quick reply. The measurements are interesting. I expected smaller. I think it is very much a custom feature because of the differences in hand size, grip, etc. Confidence is key, and we need to be comfortable with our setup. Considering that Fred shot this bow for so many years, I think he would tell you he liked it that way.
The picture of Fred shooting straight at you, in this thread, looks like the arrow is on the shelf and not on the finger, as I had thought.
It looks to me, the shelf is also 3/4" above the center of the throat. Measuring perpendicular to the string to the throat and then up to the rest. Do you think that is about right?
Looking forward to some more pictures when you have time.
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Also, forgot to ask you to comment further on the possibility of cracks developing. It sounds like you found this to be problem? Would it likely occur in the older Type 1, newer laminated handles, wood or phenolic handles in 68-69 S.K? Do you think it affected the strength in the handle?
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Hud- In my experience I only had a few small cracks in phenolic risers- never the futurewood as used in the T/Ds or later Super Ks. I have managed to stop them from spreading by using the method Bowdoc taught me. Loc-tite, ink and a lite rubbing with real fine steel wool. My type I has a shelf ledge about 5/16" wide at the widest part. I don't know how Mr. Bear decided when it was "right"- in my case I just take them down 'til it feels good and stop. There are small variations between all my bows but they are all the same for all intents and purposes. You can also get a good look at some of Bear's bows on an earlier thread. Search this forum for Fred Bears Bow and you'll see some great pictures from Wade Phillips. The arrow you mentioned in the photo is on his finger, I promise. Grant
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Back to the start of this. In the 75 catalog, on the page the Super K is on, Fred says he used the Super K to kill the Polar Bear on his third trip up there. I was blundering through my CD catalog and came across this. So, that being printed in the catatlog... I would think it is true. Check it out.
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The Great Jashu,
Think of it this way - let's say my favorite car is the Corvette. I just like Corvette's. Doesn't matter which year or model of Corvette. I like them all from the 1968 Corvette Stingray right up to today's super models. If asked, I'd simply say that the Corvette is my car.
That's the way Fred was with the Kodiak LINE of bows, from 1950 right up through the the very late 1960s when he switched primarily to a TD for his hunting. Sometimes he hunted with particular year/model Kodiak for two years, but most often he hunted with the latest, newest Kodiak model every year.
During that time period (1950 to about 1969), when asked about which bow he prefereed or which was "his" bow, he would simply refer to the Kodiaks. "My bow is the Bear Kodiak," he'd say. And for him that meant all of the Kodiaks, but especially the latest, greatest model. That phrasing carried itself into Bear's advertising for decades. My favorite car is the Corvette. Fred Bear's bow was the Kodiak.
By the way, there are plenty of photos of the white-limbed bows that Fred used for his polar bear hunts. None were technically SUPER Kodiaks because the hunts predated the introduction of the actual Super Kodiak model in mid-1967. The most famous of those photos clearly shows the 1965/66 Kodiak (second bow down from the top) that Fred used on his last polar bear hunt.
I hope this helps.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/Recurves.jpg)
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This has got to be one of the most interesting threads I've ever read and the pics are great.
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Thanks, I wondered if that is what it meant after seeing the picture. So, the bow he used was most likely a 66 KODIAK with white limbs.
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Jashu - Fred's 1966 Kodiak that he used to take the Polar Bear, second from top in Bill's photograph above, has the glass on the back painted white.
If you look close at the original color poster, you can see the irregular paint line below the tip of the horn on the lower limb. There are also other spots along the glass where it is clearly visible that the paint line is irregular.
On the film of the hunt you can see the belly glass is still its original dark color.
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/1-1.jpg)
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I just LOVE this place! Where else can you get this kind of stuff :thumbsup:
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Sure miss Grant's posts, I am bringing this thread up because I have questions about the experimental latch system on the prototype takedown that Fred used in Africa. A post above mentions that there a pictures of the patent on here somewhere but I can't find that thread, anyone have better pictures of these latches?
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Yes, I remember this thread from '09 and find reading it again in '13 is just as interesting.
This one thread has all the great elements --history, how-to, humor, adventure, and all the other good stuff.
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Does anybody have a clue where the back up bow for Polar hunt went? I talked to a gentleman about a year ago who informed me of one out there.
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Wow, what a great thread. I miss Grant's posting's. Would have enjoyed meeting him.
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Awesome thread! Thanks guys!
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Just reread this post again. Miss Grant and Bill's knowledge of Bear bows.