Trad Gang
Main Boards => Trad History/Collecting => Topic started by: CrookedStick on July 19, 2009, 08:00:00 AM
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Like many of you, I've always wanted a 'real bear takedown', especially since they were born about an hour or so north of me. By hunting and taking game with one in my area I really feel a circle is complete.
One of those 'real bear takedowns' really fires me up, the A Wood Riser. There were supposedly so few of them made, but there seem to be so many of them surviving - two new ones appeared on this forum just this week in fact.
So I am starting this thread to hopefully answer a few questions for folks, give us a place to keep track of the risers and their numbers, see if we can narrow down the years and series a little closer and give us a place to post pics of those beautiful risers.
Bernie
(http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt177/CrookedStick/littlebear600.jpg)
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Last Update: 1/8/2011
As you submit your risers/numbers to me I will add them to this list so it stays at the top. I will edit and order the list by number as we go. Please include finish notes such as 'Fred Bear' autograph, color of bears on t/d brackets, etc.
A-01007 - Bowdoc's ledger, there is a 0 in front
A-01064 - Bowdoc's ledger
A-01026 - Bowdoc's ledger 1999
*note bowdoc's ledger from '99 states the '0' numbers are 1969 A-Risers
A-1086 - LH, Original Finish, plastic bears, cacciatore's hungry finger prints all over it - Cacciatore
A-1145 - Refinished - Abear
A-1194 - No stab ins, Bowdoc's ledger 1999
A-1225 - Original Finish, RH, stab ins, “Floyd Eccleston” – Wade Phillips traded
A-1236 - RH No Bushing - Moooseran
A-1242 - Bowdoc's ledger
A-1262 - Original Finish, - johnnyrazorhead
A-1285 - RH, BD's note reads bow had 4 holes - via Bowdoc's ledger
A-1296 - Original Finish, Brown Bears - JavelinaHink
A-1319 - Refinished - Wade Phillips
A-1335 - Original Finish, RH, stab ins, spr side plt, BrBears, FB sig - Lamont Granger
A-1407 - Original Finish, LH, no stab ins, spr side plt, BrBears - Jim Stutesman
A-1419 - LH, Bowdoc's ledger, factory serial number on the right side of the riser
A-1431 - LH - Roddo on TG
A-1469 - Bowdoc's ledger
A-1490 - Original Finish - newell38
A-1493 - RH, had 3 holes in sight rail - via Bowdoc's ledger
A-1548 - Original Finish, Brown Bears - CrookedStick
A-1555 - Original Finish, RH, from ****, no other info
A-1576 - RH Has Bushing - Moooseran
A-1621 - Bowdoc's ledger
A-1633 - LH, has bushing, Brown Bears - Goosebuster46
A-1646 - Original Finish, latch bears, RH, side insert - Bill Sant
A-1677 - RH Has Bushing - Moooseran
A-1696 - RH - via Bowdoc's ledger
A-1749 - RH, Refinished - AALLFAB on TG
A-1760 - Bowdoc's ledger--now owned by ahandle70's brother Dwight
A-1831 - from **** RH, no stab ins.
A-1833 - Original Finish, RH, stab ins, “Fred Bear” sig – Wade Phillips sold
A-1860 - BD's notes indicate riser is messed up - via Bowdoc's ledger
A-1877 - Original Finish
A-1879 - Original Finish, 'missing the bears' - CrookedStick
A-1880 - Original Finish (for now)
A-1891 - refinished by Droptine, RH, stab ins., latch bears brown - MikenMN
A-1893 - Bowdoc's ledger 1999
A-1937 - Original except for two filled holes - Danny Rowan - New owner is 69RECURVE on TG
A-1938 RH - Roddo on TG
A-1945 - Original Finish, 'Fred Bear' sig in 1982 - johnnyrazorhead
A-1983 - RH - via Bowdoc's ledger
A-2001 - RH - once owned by TimberlineX
A-2023 - LH, Original Finish, New in Box with limbs and papers - classicbowman on TG
A-2038 - Original Finish, 'Fred Bear' sig in 1987 - Wade Phillips
A-2044 - RH, Checkering on grip - Jack Shanks
A-2054 - RH - JimG on TradGang
A-2078 - Original Finish, with all paperwork, latch bears - tippit
A-2090 - Bowdoc's ledger 2000
Type 2
A-2098 - Original Finish, RH, stab ins, spr side plt, Br Bears - Auction #7142296642, Mar-20-05
A-2104 - RH Has Bushing - Moooseran
A-2108 - RH Has Bushing - Moooseran
A-2141 - Last serial number for 1970 according to Frank Scott's s.n. ledger
A-2211 - no details - Alaskabowhunter
A-2277 - Last serial number for 1971 according to Frank Scott's s.n. ledger
A-No # - Refinished, RH, stab ins, “Charlie Kroll” sig – Wade Phillips sold
E-101 H - Original, non-standard #- Abear
*looks like an original number...conclusion is it could be experimental
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Bernie...PM sent.
A-1296-Original Finish, Brown Bears-Hink
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if the owner of this one wants to post his name I know he knows who's riser this is.It's at my shop and in original condition for now.I will try and look up several A riser numbers I have listed in my restoration ledger later today.bd (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/A_001.jpg)
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Bernie -
Glad to see you started this thread. Will be a real treat to see photographs of all of these great old original A Wood Risers.
Note Signed Type I, Original Finish with 2000 series serial number...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/A0.jpg)
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I found two A riser numbers in my ledger which are A-1145 in 1997 bowdoc was the owner of 1145 and A-1469 Chris I better not give his last name without his OK was the owner of 1469 you could add those 2 to the list.bd
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another one I found is A-1760 owner in 1998 was Phil ? .bd
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here's a note from 1990's I have I was with Joe and looking at 2 A risers of which 1 is in the P&Y mus.and the guy shot a buffalo with it ??? I do not have that serial number but I have the one off the other riser and that is A-01007 please note there is a 0 before ??? I will keep looking but I also have about 4-5 others I've seen or worked on that were numbered the same way with the 0 before ??? bd
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Bernie-Here's my two A-risers.
(1)A-1262 all original
(2)A-1945 all original signed by Fred in 1982
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/detroitdeerslyer/BearA-risersI.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/detroitdeerslyer/BearA-risersII.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/detroitdeerslyer/BearA-riserssigIII.jpg)
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Man-sweet looking risers guys..... I want one...
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Thanks guys, I added them to the list.
Bowdoc, I assume all those in your ledger are restored condition, right? Also, you now have the bow I wanted--consecutive serial number to mine--but I couldn't afford it. Please pass along my contact info to the owner, I'd like to keep in touch--would be nice to get them both in a pic someday.
John, great pics! Before hunting season can I rub my shooting glove all over your signature bow, and maybe put mine in a box together with it for a few hours!?
Here's a winter pic of A-1879:
(http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt177/CrookedStick/Ariseronice1.jpg)
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Wade,
Cool, I already have a study question from the data. Your A-2038 looks like it has no stabilizer insert. What gives? That's theoretically a later-numbered bow so it should come standard, no?
Bernie
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I want one BAAADDD!! nice wood fellas.
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Bernie -
First I want to say, I'm no expert on the Wood Risers and I do not seriously collect them. I just have a few. Years ago I had quite a few others but sold them to invest in more rusted pieces of steel (broadheads). I will try to get serial numbers and photographs of those risers that have passed through my hands and post them for the list.
In the past, if I ever had a question about Wood Risers, I asked the late Al Reader. Unfortunately, we can't ask The Wood Riser Expert now. I only wish this thread would have been started a year ago so Al could have passed on all the information that we may never be able to discover now.
If you notice the refinished riser in my photograph A-1319 also does not have the bushing you asked about.
Maybe that should be our first study question...
Note John's A-1262 does not have a bushing but his A-1945 does have one...
After we have seen a larger sample size, we can begin to establish a better pattern and perhaps draw some conclusions...
Years of collecting and studying Bear bows has taught me that regardless of any rule that is established about Bear bows, it seems there will be exceptions...
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Wade- Take good care of my A-riser that Fred signed to me.I need to get that one from you somehow.Need a Nels Grumley arrow?Just kidding.And you are not getting anymore of my heavyweight Kodiaks.
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Bernie-You can rub whatever you want all over my signed riser.Well,almost anything.I have some alcohol wipes here for just such an occasion.And by all means put your riser in a box with mine,maybe they will produce more signed risers! LOL
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John - Yes, if you had A-2038 that Fred signed
"Happy Hunting John Fred Bear 1987"
Everyone would assume that Fred signed it to you rather than to John Grumley.
Maybe I should change my name to John Wade Phillips...
;)
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Wade-Yes,I would tell everyone he signed it to me.It would be our little secret.But knowing the bow was signed to John Grumley wouldn't be so bad either.Don't change your name to John either,it would get way to confusing.Then everyone would be bugging me thinking I had all those Grumleys and broadheads.Hey,Wade Kabisa,now that's got a good ring to it.LOL
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Beautiful risers :help:
Rick
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John - I'm sure we will have a lot of fun in the future talking about the possibility of a trade for A-2038...
Since John Grumley passed away recently, the significance of this riser has greatly deepened to me personally. I really have no intention of trading it.
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Rick-Yes,this history and collecting stuff can be very addicting.But it's a good addiction to have.
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Wade-I can understand that.John will be missed.
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I picked up an unusual one at baltimore, its like ever other type one A handle i have EXCEPT the #, it appears origional and i will try for a pic when i get back from Denton the # is
E 101 H
you tell me your ideas, since Al passed away I cant seem to get any answers.We guessed MABYE Experimental 101 Hunter ????
I also picked up a set of limbs 1003 way cool!
third production set out of Grayling
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hey doc, i think i now own 1145 had it for about6-7 years nice work ,Chris
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Chris,
E 101 H
Way Too Cool.
Experimental is logical assumption for E.
H, I have no idea, possibly the craftsman involved with its production. If E 101 J turns up we will all be talking to ourselves.
Bet Al is having fun looking down on us, knowing the meaning of "H" is obvious.
Glad you picked up the 1003 Limbs. They belong in hands like yours where their significance is truly appreciated.
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Now Abear, I was kinda sorta thinkin' we'd get answers from you as this thread goes along...not more questions :eek:
That's a great find. Didn't anyone at the factory keep any notes at all? Hopefully we can answer many such questions as we move forward.
Thanks for the info, I added it to the list.
Bernie
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Here's A1548:
(http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt177/CrookedStick/NewAriser600.jpg)
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Bernie -
What is the serial # on those limbs with indented wedges? I have a couple pairs with indented wedges...
2-2516
3-2776
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Wade,
Do I detect a future limbs thread? ;)
Those are 1-2439
They have gold lettering and white tips.
B
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CrookedStick, I sent you an email. Thanks for all the information you are gathering. It will be great when you complete it.
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another one A-01064 please note the zero before the 1...bd
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another one is A-1893 in 1999 owner was Lee..I may not have done complete restorations on several of these bows.I may have only filled sight holes....bd
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and then A-01026 owner in 1999 was Ron.I have the bows with the zero first in the serial number listed as 1969 A riser.Yeah I know what makes me think that ? I'll get to that later.bd
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Will the B risers be next?
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and then A-1194 owner on 10-10-99 was Lynn...I still have over 15 years of ledgers to read.
I don't want to sound like some wise ass but is the info on this thread going to be sold or profited off of in any way by anyone ? What the heck I'am just asking ??? bd PS HEY BERNIE THIS ONE SAYS NO BUSHING sorry about that...bd
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Geez Bowdoc, good question. I would hope nobody would consider profiting from this info, but I guess we can't really copyright it since it's all fact.
I am hoping for a, or THE, comprehensive listing of A-risers so we can use the info to eventually answer some questions such as: When exactly were the year breaks in serial number? What number ended type 1? What number started the whole thing? Ended? What determined installation of a stab. bushing? How many were really made? etc...etc.
Historically speaking, threads like this should REALLY assist the collecting/archery history community. Actually I would suggest doing this for ALL the Bear classics.
I mean, even Wade doesn't have a large enough sampling of bows to really come to any logical conclusions, but we as the Tradgang History community could possibly, realistically, own the majority of existing examples of any given item.
If you guys think I should remove owner's names and just have a list of serial numbers and accompanying notes, I can do that as well. Just say the word.
Just my thoughts...maybe too idealistic.
Bernie
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Bernie -
I have come to only one very logical conclusion, after years of collecting and studying Bear bows... regardless of any rule or conclusion that is established about Bear bows, it seems there will be exceptions...
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Bernie -
It is logical that you need to know the names of the persons entering the data so you can go back and correct entries that may be in error or incomplete or find additional information not included initially.
Lots of information could be added... Bushing Y/N, RH/LH, etc.
If someone wants to give you the information and their name, but does not want their name to appear on the list, they should have that option.
I know first hand from collecting other archery items that if the owner or person submitting the information is not known, the quality and validity of the data can not be verified and updated as needed.
As the administrator of the list, you need to be able to contact the owners.
It is also nice for all of the owners to be able to contact each other.
Bernie - You are correct, the only people who really care about threads like this are the collecting/archery history community. Most of those persons frequent this site and have access to the information.
Yes, eventually it would be nice to do the same thing for all the Bear Classics.
Let's see now, if you do one of these each week, in July 2010, you might be able to see an end at some point...
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I think its a great idea and the info would be very helpful to lots of collecters owners and shooters.
As for the last names of said owners I can't give that up.No last names without their OK I'am sure you all understand that.
I would be more then happy to continue listing the A serial numbers I have to help out but no last names yet ???
When I asked about this info being sold or used to make a profit the one reason I did....was I would hate to wake up some morning and someone has a new book out on ID-ing bear t/d bows.All the info was supplied by us collecters and then someone hits the printer button and bang new book out.You know kind of like the bear CD and the place that sells copies of all bear catalogs and there are even black and white copies of the bear catalogs for sale out there.Those folks did not spend there adult life reseaching old bows hell no they did'nt.They hit the printer button (ask Wade Phillips about time spent reseaching he'll tell ya).I just don't want to be any part of that in any way shape or form.I'll supply most info I have free of charge to anyone whom may have interest in it.I just don't want to read it in print for sale by anyone other then myself if thats the case.I've spent a good many years of my life working on old bows collecting and reseaching any little info I could find any little thing I figured may help crack the code so to speak.You guy's with me so far ? I guess what I'am saying is if I spend 2 days looking through old ledgers to supply info on A risers or any old bows or said archery tackle for that matter and it comes up for sale at any time I'am going to be really really pissed at that person.
Wade I used you as one of the hardest working men in archery collecting I know.You've spent 1,000's of hrs on your work and I repect that.bd
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A-1407, LH, no stabilizer insert, has spring adj side plate, all original, brown bears
A-1335, RH, stabilizer insert, has sping adj side plate, all original, brown bears, signed by Fred Bear.
Lamont
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I agreed with Doc,maybe you can join your experiences to pubblish your own collector CD before someone else could do it.And you can hide the reserces and let them know only to the members,just a input.Felix
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well I'am going to keep playing along.But if I see someone selling our info the least of their worries will be a lawsuit from my lawyer.It will be knocking on their front door about 11 o'clock some saturday night.....add to the list A-2090 owner in 2000 was Carl.Again I have no note as to what work was done or total restoration.bd
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Doc,
That would be kinda funny - 29 guys with A-risers at the ready behind you as you knock on their door!
Bernie
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hell yeah..bd
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Doc - I understand what you are saying about the information being misused and I agree with you 100%.
From our standpoint, the owners of the items, we want to share the information to try to answer some of the questions that we have had for years. With an open forum like this, anyone, owners and non-owners, can access the information.
I think we should back up a bit to clarify a point or two.
Being a US Copyright holder for a few books, I do understand a bit about US Copyright laws, have read the law several times, talked with attorneys about copyright laws and read quite a bit about these laws. We could probably have a lengthy thread about copyrights.
In your post above posted July 20, 2009 08:08 AM, you stated...
"You know kind of like the bear CD and the place that sells copies of all bear catalogs and there are even black and white copies of the bear catalogs for sale out there."
First about the Bear CD that features Bear's Grayling Catalogs. I know the fellow who orchestrated the creation of that CD, and talked with him about it, before, during and after the CD was created. So probably know more than most about the events that took place.
In 2000 when the CD was created and copyrighted, Bear Archery owned the copyrights to the catalogs. It was my understanding at that time, that in exchange for some compensation, Bear gave written permission for the CD to be made.
In other words the CD is a 100% legal and legitimate item according to US Copyright laws.
I can not speak for the legitimacy of the color reprints of the catalogs as I have no knowledge of anything regarding them other than the fellow from Wisconsin who sold them the catalogs told me about the transaction after he had made the sale to the color copy company. After he told me, I was sick.
Now, for guys like me, who 20 years prior to 2000, had completed a set of original Bear Grayling catalogs, it seemed unfair for anyone to be able to pay $50 to buy a complete set of Bear Grayling Catalogs on CD. But the CD was legal, so there was nothing any of us catalog collectors could do.
I still have all my original paper catalogs and use them almost daily. I also have the CD, but would much rather handle the paper, turn the pages, look at the ink stamp labels on the covers from old friends who I got the catalogs from.
Back to the serial numbers.
Doc - You have more invested than anyone in recording the serial number data for all of these years. So I can understand your feelings. I don't know what to advise you to do except I would not even give out your customer's first name. Not sure I would even give out the serial number of the customer's bow without the customer’s permission.
Perhaps the wisest thing for you to do is just make a list of the A-B-C risers that you have had in the shop, and give the total number of each to Bernie to aid in figuring out how many of each, A-B-C, were made. (Bernie, notice how I just casually volunteered you to do the B-C too.
Doc - You are in a much different situation than us guys who just have some risers and want to share information. You’ll have to figure out the right thing for you to. Sometimes these situations are tough.
I don't see the list raw data having much value for anyone to try to sell when anyone can get all the information for free by viewing the first page of this thread.
If this list grows to include several hundred risers, I don't see how anyone could ever write anything about Bear's A Risers (including an article or even a post on another thread) and not make some reference to the most complete list ever assembled (if it becomes that).
And if anyone ever writes a book about Fred Bear's Takedowns, they could not possibly ignore making reference to such a list.
Frankly, I hope this list helps spark someone into writing a book about Fred's Takedowns. Now that Al is gone, I have no idea who would write such a book, but I know for sure it won't be me because I don't have the T/D passion, experience, nor collection of T/Ds to even think about considering it.
Doc – I have a couple of suggestions for you regarding books…
Clean up your restoration ledger a bit, give it to a professional to have it transcribed with instructions to not include names, have it printed and sell the books.
Your restoration 101 thread is a book. If cleaned up, expanded a bit, and printed, it would probably be at the top of the Bow Collector's Best Seller List for next 10 years. After 10 years, your Second Edition would take its place.
Both would be your copyrighted books and if they were numbered, limited editions, nobody would fail to buy matching numbers.
I would like to order two matching numbered sets, #13 and #58.
Let me know the availability and cost.
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Thanks guys, got today's batch posted.
Rich, this could go on for years!?!?!?
Wade, thanks for the confidence to volunteer me :eek:
Bernie
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Heck, someone should just write Doc's biography, It would be a best seller for sure.
Who's the scribe?
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Bernie -
Data for a couple more A Risers to add to the list. These two slipped through my hands several years ago.
A-No # - Refinished, RH, stab ins, “Charlie Kroll” sig – Wade Phillips sold
A-1833 - Original Finish, RH, stab ins, “Fred Bear” sig – Wade Phillips sold
Also gathered up some data for a few 69-72 B & C Risers.
Let us know if you want to post B&C information on this thread or if you want to start separate threads for the B&C Risers.
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Just caught up with this thread. Interesting points made. I'm trying to remember what Owen told me about the "shotgun latch" takedown that was the predecessor to the marketed version. I know that Mr. Bear kept one -you can see it on the film, "History of the Bow and Arrow." If I recall correctly, Owen said they sent one out for testing with a guy who ultimately killed a leopard with it and he raved so lodly about what a great bow it was that they just let him keep it. I don't think that Owen could remember his name but its probably out there still- it'd be a keeper for sure. I can see it now- you walk into an estate sale and there it sets and no archers in the crowd....ahhhh.
Wade- you make some very relevant and interesting points regarding the intricacies of copyright law. One of the ways the internet has rocked the status quo.
Bowdoc- the ownership of intellectual property has been an issue for as long as money has been paid for ideas,period.The reality is, I'm afraid, that once the information is freely displayed the cat is out of the bag, so to speak. Not very long ago you could have mailed yourself a dated manuscript and just left it sealed and it could be used to qualify a claim of ownership in lieu of an active copyright. With the 'net I'm not sure what would fly unless a html file was made of the post and saved. Interesting points all round. And to think other folks think we're a bunch of nuts roaming around playing with sharp sticks, LOL. GY
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Here are mine...............
Type 2 2104 RH Has Bushimg
2108 RH Has Bushing
Type 1 1236 RH No Bushing
1576 RH Has Bushing
1677 RH Has Bushing
Great thread....................moose
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This is the one I just picked up at Compton from Norm, With the help from Bill Hinkley Type 1 LH A, Has Bushing, 1633, Brown Bears
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I wanted to say thanks Wade for all the info thats helpful and could be put to good use.I think we'll be safe for now.
Ok here's another A-1419 lefthand Its the only bear t/d I've noted with the factory serial number on the right side of the riser weird huh ? think it was Fred's ?????? bd
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What's the deal we doing A-B&C in this same thread or should we start another for B and then another for C ? what the heck Terry don't care how many we post.That would make for better records keeping maybe.
Another thing we better do the limb thread.I got a couple sets I'am working on now that could help answer some ?????? let me know.I may start it later tonight myself if someone don't.
Oh yeah add this one to the list of short risers A-1242.
If I should happen to list a riser twice that would indacate the riser was returned to me later for one reason or another..OK you guy's set tight I gotta go visit my grandkidds I'll be back with more numbers in a couple hrs OK ???? bd
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Doc,
I just started the B & C threads...something called Search Engine Optimization dictates we should have different threads to make it easier for folks to find the info.
I think I will let you start that limb thread...this may never end!
Thanks
Bernie
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OK guys, This evening, I accidentally stumbled across something of interest to us regarding serial numbers on this thread ...
Was going through a working draft of a book I've been working on (part time) for the past five years, it is about Bear Leather Quivers and wanted to look something up for another thread (hey forget that thread for now)..., anyway, found stuffed in the front pocket of the draft, is 13 pages of Bear bow serial numbers and serial number codes. Years are sporatic...
starts with 1957-58
skips 1959-60
then starts again in 1961
skips 1962-63
then starts 1964-65-66-67-68-69-70-71
skips 1972-73
then starts 74-75-76-77-78
Last month is October 1978, for November written in the column is "Move to Fla from Michigan" and there is nothing after 1978.
The information is in all types of formats, obviously produced in blocks of years, some handwritten, some typed, some a combination. The data is really a mess.
I believe Frank Scott gave this to me several years ago, probably sometime in the mid 1990s. These are photo copies and you can see that most of the original pages were three hole punched. There were at least a couple of other collectors who had these pages too, as several years ago I remember talking with them about some of these pages, and numbers from specific years.
The good news is that the information for 1970 and 1971 is included, which is exactly what we are interested in for this thread...
The ledger shows the ending serial number for the year so will list them by year...
1970
A-2141
B-2131
C-1860
1971
A-2277
B-2348
C-2262
Unfortunately, the data for 1972 and 1973 was not recorded on the ledger, so is not available from this source document.
The limb serial numbers are also listed, but I will wait to post them on the thread for limbs - who is the volunteer for that thread? The limbs may be a lot more work than the risers as far more limbs were made then risers...
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I tried the reply with quote from Wade's post but could not figure out how to post this...
The limbs may be a lot more work.
Nobody said anything to me about work.I thought we just listed the numbers then hit some button on this stupid contrapsion and booyaa the pc's did the work.You mean like someone has to actually do something here ??? gee's and I thought we were just having fun ? now Wadester tosses the word work into the mix ???? bd
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Doc - "Work", Yes, bad thing to say to early in the morning.
"The limbs may be a lot more work."
Work meaning the administrator of the limb list will have to copy the information from the thread and then edit the limb list by putting each limb information it in its proper numerical sequence on the edited list.
If I am reading Frank Scott's list correctly, it looks like there were over 5,000 limbs produced through the end of 1971. This is if the numbers were used only once. If they were re-used, it would be over 13,000.
I have no idea if the 4-digit numbers were reused for the 1-2-3 limbs or if each 4-digit number was used only once for either a 1-2-3 set of limbs.
The limbs should probably be limited to only black with white tips and white with black tips (and of course the ugly duckings, the pea green with white tips and brown wedges). There may be some other colors that may fall within these lower serial numbers, guess we will find out.
My guess is that we probably don't want to include any limbs with numbers falling within the run of red tip limbs and beyond.
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Lots of great info guys keep it comeing...
Cody
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Bernie -
This is a nice A Riser that I had at one time, but traded off..
A-1225 - Original Finish, RH, stab ins, “Floyd Eccleston” – Wade Phillips traded
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A-riser list up-to-date as of July 22 (I think).
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Bernie – You are doing a great job of keeping up the list.
Here is another A Riser that I found as a saved auction on my computer. Not sure of the reason I saved it 4 years ago, but would be nice now if I had been smart enough to save all the wood riser auctions over the past 10 years plus since auctions have taken off. Still have all the photographs saved so all details can be clearly seen. There should be no problems with us recording data of a public sale.
This one is a Type II
A-2098 - Original Finish, RH, stab ins, spr side plt, BrBears - Auction #7142296642, Mar-20-05
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ttt
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I'am at it early boy's I got 24 jobs to spray this AM before it hits the 90 degree mark later.
OK lets see where the heck did my A list go.OK start today Bernie with A-1621 will be first off.
Did I ever tell you guy's about this other S list I got.It ai'nt got nothing to do with bows......bd
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A-riser list up to date once again, 7/24. Now on to the B-risers. Good thing nobody likes the C-risers yet!
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Doc-I hope I'm not at the top of your S-list.
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today we can start with A-1493 righthand had 3 holes in the sight rail.bd
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and then and then and then.Sorry you gotta put up with a little of me screwing around from time to time I get bored fast.T/D A-1860 and the note I have writen after this one we can not post.Its reads something like this riser is F^%$ed up.bd
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ok and another would be Bear T/D A-1285 righthand note reads bow had 4 holes.bd
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gee's and here's another one of the little beggers....A-1983 I believe this one is also righthand.bd
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I went back and found the name I needed on one of the early A risers I listed as a 1969 which would be A-01XXX whatever.The then owner of the riser is now a TG memebr.I may ask if he could post a pic of two of it if he still has it and you will see why I listed those as 1969's rather then 1970.Another thing on the early serial numberd risers the sockets are just a bit different and were chanced in late 69 or real early 1970 would have been more like it.bd
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I have A 1937 all original except for two filled holes.I love this bow.
Danny
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mine is a type II, A-2211
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Bernie please check the note on A-1194 I added thanks.bd
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Ok guys, thanks and keep 'em coming. A-Riser list up to date as of July 26, 22:52
Yikes, 1 hour, 52 minutes past bedtime!
See ya,
Bernie
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great job Bernie thank you for all your time and work.bd
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Whoa, looks like a day off for the A-list. What's up? I know there are more out there....
And again Doc, thanks for sharing all that info!
Bernie
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Blame Bernie ;) Ill get # for you later
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn291/adirondackbear/100_0407.jpg)
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Great photograph Chris. Was hoping you would post the A's too. Super nice....
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Geez Abear, I'm honored to take the blame!
Those are fantastic!
Bernie
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Next will be riser A-1696 righthanded...bd
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LH A-1086,plastic Little Bears no holes original conditions,just put my hungry hands on.Will post some pics in the next days since I am travelling .Felix
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So noted. Thanks again guys.
Bernie
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keepen it up......bd
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One of the A risers here at my shop may be looking for a new home soon ???????? bd
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Doc,tell more
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she's a righty Filex.bd
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Doc I sent you an email.
Jack
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Here's an A I once owned but moved for something I wanted even more. One of those seemed-like-a-good-idea-at-the-time things!
Serial number was 2001. Beautiful riser.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/BearAWoodTD3.jpg)
Bill Krenz
Colorado
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Another fine photo Bill, thanks. I added the number to our list.
Bernie
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And I guess I'll move this one to the top just for the halibut.
Bernie
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Bowdoc...my brother Dwight own's A-1760. I believe this bow was refinished by you years back. He has owned it for around 10 years or so. It shoots like it should and is a darn good looking bow.
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Just Noticed this thread. I have an A riser with 50# black limbs. It has been sitting in it's case for years. All original with all the paper work including a bow tip key chain and gold arrow tie tack. Brown bears on hinge. Serial # 2078. I'll take some pictures if anyone is interested...Doc
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heck yeah i want to see pics,tippit.i'll give you $100 for everything except the tie tack(don't wear 'em anymore)!!!HA! I now have two in the works and i am so excited to shoot 'em ....could be the last bows i ever buy.....right.
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Doc, I'd like to see some pics of your A handle please. Thanks.
Shick
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Got an A custom a month or so ago. Perfect original finish, brown bear buttons,right hand and side mount. #1646 Limbs type 1-1441. Can't do pics here but if Doc wants some I can email them to him.
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Heck yes Doc we'd love to see that little gem bd
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Updated for the New Year.
Keep 'em coming.
Bernie
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A-1891, stabilizer bushing, brown bears.
Mike Strobel
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Forgot to say it is a right handed model.
Mike Strobel
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MINE IS A2054 RH
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A-1938 Right. A-1431 Left
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I have A-1749 Righty Refinished. Jim
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Actually had not seen this thread before. So for an update I am now the proud owner of Riser A-1937. I purchased it from Trad Gang member Danny Rowan. Gteat guy to deal with.
Andy
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I hope to post my photo's soon---
I have #2023 A wood left handed ( new in the box with limbs) papers--
how many were made--- according to the late Al Reider not many about 12---- this one seems to be on odd ball it is a 1970 bow with serial numbers that start with a 2 ???
Some info-- very early bears b risers has brass bears --- Ihave serial number #17 I don't think they made over 20 of the brass bears bows --- these were used unting the plastic mold was made-
Classic Bowman Sporting Woolens 'look for these bows to be shownn on my site -- thanks rob
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The list is updated once again. Thanks for the new numbers guys. Remember, the show season is starting, bring a notebook along and record any new A-Riser numbers you see.
Hey classicbowman, that serial number 17--is it an A Riser? Is it A 1017 or is it simply A 17? Please let us know, I thought that series started with 1000.
By the way, according to Frank Scott's ledger, the last serial number for 1970 is A-2141. My theory is it was similar to the car industry--the next series of bows was released a bit early to allow for things like catalog photos, etc., for the next year. Does your A-2023 riser have the adjustable sideplate and 'S' grip of the Type 2?
Thanks
Bernie
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more to come soon bd
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Just found this topic and thought to contribute.
I currently hunt with A-1966. My Year.
All original, RH with no holes.
My favorite bow!
Hey Donnie,
You refinished my very first A handle in the late 90's. Not certain but "A-1760" rings a bell.
Long time ago.......My memory not too good anymore............Philip
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A-1646
Limbs and Handle are All Original.
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/COVEJEEPSXJ/A-1646001.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/COVEJEEPSXJ/A-1646002.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/COVEJEEPSXJ/A-1646005.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/COVEJEEPSXJ/A-1646006.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/COVEJEEPSXJ/A-1646007.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/COVEJEEPSXJ/A-1646008.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/COVEJEEPSXJ/A-1646010.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/COVEJEEPSXJ/A-1646009.jpg)
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Top Handle... A-1778 w/bushing
Middle....... A-1964 w/bushing
Bottom....... A-1269 signed by Al Reader
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss259/zepnut/DSCF1115.jpg)
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss259/zepnut/DSCF1119.jpg)
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Norm, Those are absolute beauties!! WOW. I love the looks of the middle one, especially the coin side!
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Something about these that just does it for me...can't put my finger on it but they are my favorites....hands down.
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I agree 100%.
Of all the wonderful bows of Fred Bear, and there are many, there's nothing like Stringing and shooting a vintage-bear A riser with vintage limbs.
It get's even better when you mount a vintage-Bear quiver & arrows and take to the woods.
I might even like it better than a Signature bow.....Philip
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Nice Norm! real sweet handles
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Thanks OldSkoolArcher, You also have a great looking riser. Like KUCH says there is something about the takedowns. I've been thinking about having a set of limbs made to match the middle riser.
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Great looking risers Norm. A custom set of matching limbs for that middle riser would look great. :cool:
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Originally posted by vintage-bears:
Originally posted by vintage-bears:
Originally posted by zepnut:
Top Handle... A-1778 w/bushing
Middle....... A-1964 w/bushing
Bottom....... A-1269 signed by Al Reader
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss259/zepnut/DSCF1115.jpg)
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss259/zepnut/DSCF1119.jpg)
Norm. Looks like you are cornering the market on A risers! Here is A-1966. Probably built the same day as your A-1964 (http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt247/87philip/119.jpg)
I apologize to the forum admin for the triple post. Still having trouble with pics and tried to edit twice.
Would have liked to have a few brews with you at Denton this past year. Hopefully next time. Regards to the Mrs.
You sure do have some Dandy Bears Norm.....Philip [/b]
[/b]
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zepnut,I really like your middle A riser,quite rare!For sure the A is the most appealing of the 3 lenghts.I have seen some RHs for sale but never a LH,so I feel already blessed to own mine with a very low serial num. as well.
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Originally posted by cacciatore:
zepnut,I really like your middle A riser,quite rare!For sure the A is the most appealing of the 3 lenghts.I have seen some RHs for sale but never a LH,so I feel already blessed to own mine with a very low serial num. as well.
Felix.
You are blessed. Very small % were made in LH.
You have a gem! And you will hear from me when LH models come this way and I have a knack for finding hard to find stuff.
PS: you've got mail.......Philip
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Originally posted by OldSkoolArcher:
A-1646
Limbs and Handle are All Original.
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/COVEJEEPSXJ/A-1646001.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/COVEJEEPSXJ/A-1646002.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/COVEJEEPSXJ/A-1646005.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/COVEJEEPSXJ/A-1646006.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/COVEJEEPSXJ/A-1646007.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/COVEJEEPSXJ/A-1646008.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/COVEJEEPSXJ/A-1646010.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/COVEJEEPSXJ/A-1646009.jpg)
Had to tell you also that you have a gem of an A riser and limbs.
Beautiful.....Philip
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Thanks Philip,I appreciate it.
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Thanks Philip.
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Thanks Philip...You also have a nice riser. Next time we have to have a couple cool ones and talk about the old times.
Thanks Cacciatore and Yellowbow
Looks like Abear has the market cornered....beautiful collection of risers.
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OK Bernie, I finally broke down and took some photos. A-1145
Don (bowdoc), I believe you used to own this one.
Chris - thanks for selling it.
Francis Dehner, an old Bear rep from back in the day, held this one in his hands for a long time. He said he would have a hard time saying that it was refinished. When I said that I was sure it had been refinished, he said that it must have been a Master that did it! So Kudos to you Don. Check your ledgers (1997?) and let me know exactly what you did to it.
(http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/ac44/hayslope1/Bows/DSC_0879.jpg)
(http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/ac44/hayslope1/Bows/DSC_0878.jpg)
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This one is a Type 2. A-2208
There is something very special about this one.
(http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/ac44/hayslope1/Bows/DSC_0872.jpg)
This one had spent the last 14 years wrapped up in a pillow case on top of a bow cabinet.
The original shrink wrap.
Francis Dehner also held this one in his hands at Denton. I don't think he spoke for about 10 minutes. He finally smiled and said "Oh My!". "Where in God's name did you find this?"
(http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/ac44/hayslope1/Bows/DSC_0875.jpg)
(http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/ac44/hayslope1/Bows/DSC_0871.jpg)
(http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/ac44/hayslope1/Bows/DSC_0873.jpg)
(http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/ac44/hayslope1/Bows/DSC_0874.jpg)
The plastic got a lot more fingerprints on it at Denton!
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Those are awesome !!
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Chad - Thanks. Like you said before:
Originally posted by kuch:
Something about these that just does it for me...can't put my finger on it but they are my favorites....hands down.
That Type 1 (A-1145) fits my hand like someone made it just for me.
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Tony.
You have some amazing Bears!
Do you have a vintage-bear type 1 B riser for sale?...........Philip
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Philip,
Thanks.
No B risers in the household at this time.
Tony
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I just picked up A-1911. I still can't believe I finally got one. It looks all original.
What year was it made ?
Thanks
Mark
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Mark - should be 1970
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Any of you lucky southpaws grab the LH A handle (A-1453) that was on the "list" that generated this thread? I figured that Felix would be all over it! It sold before I got my fingers on the list.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=005184
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Yes Tony,I am been able to buy it with some help of a great Tganger!
The riser wasn't mint with some very small holes in it that will be easily fixed!
The seller never mentioned them,but I am happy since you know how rare those riserare for a poor lefty. :saywhat:
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By the way:thanks Jack!
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Felix - congratulations! BTW - you are quick as a cat!!!! I didn't think that lefty would escape your attention!
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Tony,I have learned when you see a lh interesting buy it,there not will be many chances to find another one.
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Seen a real nice looking Grayling type 1 riser on the big site. Left Hand. Pricey though
......Philip
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Originally posted by vintage-bears:
Seen a real nice looking Grayling type 1 riser on the big site. Left Hand. Pricey though
......Philip
That price is a bit on the "steep" side for that riser, LH or not! I'd say the insert on the coin side is not factory.....although anything is possible. Still.....crazy money unless you are a desperate southpaw!
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If I remember well those are Rh!
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Would be nice to get one.
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(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy259/elizipper/IMG_0266.jpg)
serial number A-1880 ,refinished by Bowdoc,site holes filled,berger button filled ,additional quiver bushing installed, checkered by Dave Windauer
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(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy259/elizipper/IMG_0267.jpg)
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(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy259/elizipper/IMG_0370.jpg)
Type l A RH, serial # A-1641, stab bushing, brown bears, refinished and modified by Bowdoc, lowered shelf and added quiver bushing
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(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy259/elizipper/IMG_0371.jpg)
thought I needed to contribute to the list
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1641 is a sweet handle Chad!
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That handle has had a lot of modifications but it looks great.
Much better with the checkering removed IMHO.
Enjoy Kuch !
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2 different risers, Philip. They have both seen many hours in the woods and taken a few critters.
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Hi Kuch,
I thought it was the checkered riser that had been sanded down and restored.
The modified shelf on the non checkered riser was done nicely. Looks great! I see it also has an added upper bushing like the checkered riser.
That's what confused me. There both very cool risers!
Its great that you hunt with them still. Enjoy!
..........Philip
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Kuch, great handles. Glad to see you are hunting with them also. My B has the same shelf mods as your A and it fits and feels like a 'leather glove'. Good job.
Shick
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you made it possible, Shick. Thanks for giving me the sickness !
Philip, I had them modified to what I felt was what I wanted in the ultimate hunting bow .
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A 1744
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/A-1744021.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/A-1744025.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/A-1744005.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/A-1744008.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/A-1744007.jpg)
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Danny
So you finally found another one. Can't say I blame you the one you sold me is still my pride & joy. Hope this time finacial situations can stay away from you so you can hang onto this beauty.
Enjoy!!!
Andy
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Very nice riser there; I agree with Chad to have his risers modified as he more likes them,at the end they are his to go bows and the same Fred modified his personals.
Danny I have already seen your new set,I am glad you are a happy camper now.LOL
We need to make an hunting camp with those old bows..
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TTT
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My latest handle, and the one I have dreamed of. A-1297
(http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad215/mrgq4126/101_2543.jpg) (http://s937.photobucket.com/user/mrgq4126/media/101_2543.jpg.html)
(http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad215/mrgq4126/101_2533.jpg) (http://s937.photobucket.com/user/mrgq4126/media/101_2533.jpg.html)
(http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad215/mrgq4126/101_2531.jpg) (http://s937.photobucket.com/user/mrgq4126/media/101_2531.jpg.html)
(http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad215/mrgq4126/101_2526.jpg) (http://s937.photobucket.com/user/mrgq4126/media/101_2526.jpg.html)
(http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad215/mrgq4126/101_2601.jpg) (http://s937.photobucket.com/user/mrgq4126/media/101_2601.jpg.html)
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(http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt247/87philip/a3-1.jpg)
(http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt247/87philip/a1-1.jpg)
A-1945 signed by PapaBear
A-1966 my hunting bow
A-1744 - Available
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I noticed toward the start of the thread that Wade wrote "If you notice the refinished riser in my photograph A-1319 also does not have the bushing you asked about.
Maybe that should be our first study question...
Note John's A-1262 does not have a bushing but his A-1945 does have one...
After we have seen a larger sample size, we can begin to establish a better pattern and perhaps draw some conclusions..."
Well my A handle is 1297 and has a bushing. That is only 35 away from Johns 1262 with no bushing. Hope this helps narrow things down.
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Even closer to above statement only 4 numbers difference. If the mystery has been solved someone please let me know. Lots of pages to weed through here. "and then A-1194 owner on 10-10-99 was Lynn...I still have over 15 years of ledgers to read.
I don't want to sound like some wise ass but is the info on this thread going to be sold or profited off of in any way by anyone ? What the heck I'am just asking ??? bd PS HEY BERNIE THIS ONE SAYS NO BUSHING sorry about that...bd"
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I think I listed my Type #2 A-2054, RH but it,s not listed
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I no longer have A-1744 in my collection.
Been moved to a fine fellow collector.
......Philip