Trad Gang
Main Boards => Trad History/Collecting => Topic started by: Wade Phillips on July 04, 2009, 01:29:00 AM
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Who Invented the Archer's Shooting Glove???
Let's refer back to original documents from the era that recorded the use of Shooting Gloves ...
During the 1920s, the Archer's Shooting Glove was in common use in the United States.
The Archers Company Catalog of 1928, page 48 shows and describes two different shooting gloves and a two hole tab...
In 1928, The Archers Company was located in Pinehurst, North Carolina and was owned by it founder, Phillip Rousnevelle.
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/028AC.jpg)
Note that lines 4/5 below Shooting Tab, state "the shooting glove now in common use."
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/028AC-2.jpg)
Can anyone cite an older reference to an Archer's Shooting Glove?
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This may be hard to beat, because there is only a few years difference between the time Saxton Pope published Hunting with the Bow and Arrow, unless they were in use in other countries.
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Barry,
I would bet money that there is a shooting glove older than 1928. I say this because Rounsevelle used the ideas of many others to make tackle to market.
Rounsevelle borrowed ideas from Saxton Pope's 1923 "Hunting With the Bow & Arrow" for his own Archery Handbooks....
Rounsevelle knew Pope on a personal level as early as 1925. I have an original letter that Saxton Pope wrote in 1925 while in Africa to Rounsevelle. The letter in its original envelope, was in Rounsevelle's personal scrapbook that I acquired several years ago.
Rounsevelle did not have the depth of experience that other great bowmen of the 1920s had. He was more of a marketer than an inventor, bowman or hunting archer.
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Target Archery - Elmer, 1946
[pg. 352-364] Passages about tabs, stall, gloves, quivers, etc.
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There's a drawing of one on page 58 of "Ford on Archery [1887]" edited by Butts. The copy I have is inscribed and signed by Samuel G. McMeen who gave it to Abner Sheperdson in 1917.
Looks like they date back to Ascham.
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Cliff,
Thank you so much for your posts. You can always be counted upon to turn to the appropriate page in your library. Your help is always invaluable in saving me time looking trough page after page.
There is nothing quite like enjoying the aroma of opening these 1800s books, and reading the words that prove nearly everything new in archery at any point in time, had probably already been invented years earlier by another bowman.
1858 London - "The Theory and Practice of Archery" - by Horace Ford. This scan is the entire page 58...
Ford's Fig. 25 is very nicely drawn, but unfortunately, it fails to illustrate the how the two ends of the wrist strap connect to each other...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/1858FORD.jpg)
Also note that on page 57, under the title, "The Shooting-Glove, And Other Protectors for the Fingers." Ford speaks of "The old-fashioned archer's glove - still in use in Scotland and perhaps occasionally elsewhere-", very interesting reading those words penned 151 years ago...
For those unfamiliar with Horace Ford, he was England's Champion Archer 1850 to 1859 and 1867.
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Ford's Fig. 25 is very nicely drawn, but unfortunately, it fails to illustrate the how the two ends of the wrist strap connect to each other...
No doubt.....it was Velcro !! :bigsmyl:
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There is a chapter [pp.121] in "The English Bowmen", 1801 by T. Roberts that is captioned 'Use of the Shooting-Glove - Ancient Shooting-Glove - Materials - Fingers Used in Drawing the String - Handle of Bow Formerly Waxed - Now Covered with Velvet, Shag Worsted Lace'.
Robert begins by quoting Ascham saying: "A Shooting Glove, says Ascham, is chiefly to have a man's fingers from being hurt; that he may be able to bear the sharp string to the utmost of his strength. When a man shoots, the might of his shoot lies on the foremost finger and on the ringman; for the middle finger, which is the longest, like a lubber starts back, and bears no weight of the string in a manner at all. Therefore, the two other fingers must have thicker leather, and that must have thickest of all, whereon a man looseth most; and for sure loosing, the foremost finger is most apt, because it holdeth best; and for that purpose nature hath, as it were, yoked it with the thumb...
Roberts continues to quote Ascham on the details of shooting gloves. Ascham also notes that some bowmen use gloves on their bowhand as well.
Roberts then notes the following are generally used [remember, this is 1801]:
1. The shooting glove; which consists of finger-stalls fastened to thongs buttoned round the wrist; and may be used with or without a glove.
2. Finger-stalls; sewed to a common glove.
3. The tab; which is a piece of flat leather, into which the gingers are let, and which lies on the inside of the hand.
Looks like archers have used some protection on their fingers for a while. Of course, thumb rings were used in other parts of the world for a similar purpose coupled with the need for a clean release when shooting a short composite bow particularly from horseback.
Wade, I like those pictures from your Archers Company collection -- neat!
Tox Collector
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Tox Collector - Thank you so much for your post. Like Cliff, you can always be counted upon to look up the information that us collectors of old literature have read and re-read over the years. Will have to start another thread about The Archers Company and we can compare notes about what we have…
I am certain that if we dug deep enough that we could establish that the archer's shooting glove was in use well before Ascham's 1545 writings.
Fred Bear's 1936/1937 “Archer’s Glove” patent was a “Design Patent”, meaning that he was granted exclusive rights to manufacture a shooting glove of the ornamental design illustrated in the Design Patent, Des. 107,294.
His patent claim is for "The ornamental design for an Archer's shooting glove as shown".
Despite what some enthusiastic corporate advertising personal wrote in more than one Bear Archery Catalog, Fred’s Design Patent was not the invention of the Archer’s Shooting Glove…
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/0-1937.jpg)
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/0-1937B.jpg)
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Cliff, I assume that Abner Sheperdson was the bowyer? Tox Collector
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A thread on The Archers Company sounds good. I am sure that Liquid Amber can contribute to the thread as well. I agree with you that the shooting glove had to exist well before Ascham's time -- particularly with the heavy bows being used, fingers required protection.
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As long as we all agree that Fred didn't invent the wheel ...
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Fred may have -- who knows for sure? He was an extremely inventive guy!
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Tony - You always come up with the best one liners ever.
Yes, as you say...
"As long as we all agree that Fred didn't invent the wheel ..."
Especially not the wheel in use with the bow...
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Originally posted by Tox Collector:
I agree with you that the shooting glove had to exist well before Ascham's time -- particularly with the heavy bows being used, fingers required protection.
There is however no medieval illustration showing archers other than bare-handed – not to my knowledge at least. The oldest found tab I know of is shown in Hugh D. H. Soar's "The Crooked Stick", p. 129, and dated to around 1500 AD.
Of course medieval illustration cannot be taken as renderings of reality, and absence of evidence is no evidence of absence, but still …
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You make a good point. One website that I researched noted that although Ascham referenced shooting gloves and Anne Boleyn purchased a shooting glove (circa 1534) [the latter according to Accounts for the English royal household], shooting gloves are rarely shown in illustrations of archers at war.
Only one illustration has been found that apparently does show something that resembles a shooting glove, and that is the Zamorra Tapestry [I am not personally familiar with this Tapestry]. The suggestion is that archers who shot the bow their entire life developed sufficient calluses to protect their fingers; and therefore, shooting gloves were used infrequently by such bowmen according to this source.
Keep in mind that there are few sources in English that even record the details and lives of the medieval archer so it makes some sense that this detail may not have been noted. "Certain Discourses" by Smyth [1590] provides some insights by one who saw the bow in action from a military standpoint -- I will check this book to see if there is anything on the topic. I have some other sources as well that I will check.
Tox Collector
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Abner Shepherdson of Melrose, Massachusetts; bowyer, fletcher, artist who's early work with take-apart bows and sights largely have gone unnoticed. He and McMeen were tight.
I don't have any doubts a shooting glove or finger protection was used many years ago. If folks were already wearing clothes, foot and hand protection as a way of life, it would be a logical and easy progression to hand protection for the drawing hand.
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Cliff - My thoughts exactly. Hand protection for both hands existed before the bow was invented. If it were freezing, would early man remove his hand protection so his hand could freeze, simply because he happened to have a bow in his hand? Early man was smarter than that.
About Sheherdson's Bows...
Did Abner E. Shepherdson's take-apart bows progress beyond the design of his simple indexed sleeve shown in his 1921 patent?
Do you have a Shepherdson take-apart bow? If so, how were they marked? Although I do not have one of Shepherdson's bows, one of my Cassius Styles bows is a take-apart that has an indexed sleeve similar to the design shown in Shepherdson's patent and made during the same period.
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I did some additional research but not as much as I would like to. Wade and Cliff -- common sense would suggest at least for some archers that some finger protection may have been used.
Hugh Soar does discuss this issue in his book "Secrets of the English War Bow", Yardley, PA, 2006. On pp. 167 of his book, Hugh states: "Ascham, an archer himself, was aware of the problem some archers face when pulling back the string of a heavy draw weight bow, for painful calluses can form on fingers. His remedy, and he advances two, is to take and split open [he uses the archaic term "spinet"] a piece of goose quill and sew it within the finger of the glove as protection.
Alternatively, he recommends sewing a leather spacer between the fingers of the glove "which shall kepe his fingers so in sunder that they shall not holde the nocke so fast as they did."... Hugh continues on to say that men of rank may have possessed such things but "there is no evidence that the ordinary archer was so equipped. It is unlikely that he would have been, for if he used anything at all [and evidence for any form of finger protection is lacking], then a simple piece of leather with three holes cut roughly would have sufficed. Today we know these latter as tabs...Bowstrings were whipped - or as we would say today, served -- so, combined with hands and fingers toughened by manual work, this alone may have been sufficient safeguard."
On pp. 12 of the book "The Great Warbow" by Strickland and Hardy, Sutton Publishing, England, 2005 there is an illustration of archers drawing heavey bows. This is from 'Sebastian's Altar" by the Meister Heilige Sippe, c. 1493.
The artist clearly has captured a good deal of archery detail including showing the heartwood and sapwood of the yew bows depicted. The two archers certainly appear to be using gloves on their right hands because their other hands -- their bow hands are flesh colored and that isn't the case with string hands.
I plan to do some additional research.
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Cliff, Was Shepardson a friend of Frentz as well? Do you know anything about their relationship? Tox Collector
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More research but no additional results. Limited references, if any, generally track back to Ascham, who was cited above.
The best representation that I have come across so far of an archer releasing an arrow/shooting during the middle ages is the one shown in the book "The Great Warbow" by Strickland and Hardy on pp. 12. A great deal of archery detail is shown.
Artists generally were probably not too concerned during that period in capturing the level of archery detail that would be nice to see. Obviously, they were inclined to take liberties as an artist.
Much like a previous thread some time ago concerning whether archers during that period actually used nocking points on their strings is virtually impossible to determine.
Keep in mind that there were limited writings on archery to begin with during that period [Sir John Smythe, Knight was one of a very few individuals who had witnessed archery used militarily and then wrote about it] and then whatever images of archers that were drawn or painted during the middle ages were less than helpful because of artistic oversight when it came to details as well as the artist's general lack of knowledge concerning archery.
Jester, what do you think of the illustration in Strickland and Hardy's book?
Tox Collector
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This is liberally translated by me from French to English. The text is taken from Viollet Le Duc Encyclopédie Médiévale, page 198 of tome II.
here is a link for more reference to the author
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugène_Viollet-le-Duc
«On one of the lintels of the principal door of the Vézelay church, is sculpted an archer holding a single curved bow measuring 1m50 long. .... The sculptures date at around 1100 AD. During the 12th century, the archer is dressed with a short tunic with a wide belt. .... His right hand was covered with a leather glove and his left forearm with a curved iron plaque, designed to preserve the wrist from the string.»
There is sadly no illustration referring directly to the paragraph.
Simon
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Simon, Thanks very much for your imput -- it's very much appreciated. Tox Collector
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Frentz was from Boston [a bowyer] and Shepardson [noted fletcher] from Melrose and the archery community during that period was rather small. I've not looked real hard, but nothing I have directly states "they were friends." I would suspect they were at minimum, acquaintances.
McMeen is interesting, particularly in that he grew up in Crawfordsville, Indiana and watched the Thompson brothers shoot as a youngster, an activity that was cause for his entry into archery. I think McMeen won Elmer's "Wooden Spoon" for last at one of the National shoots. :)
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Tox Collector - I agree, there was a lack of detail by many artists during this period. As always your references cited are valuable insights.
Simon - Great post. Thank you so much for finding the reference and taking the time to do the translation to English.
Cliff - Do you have anything about Shepardson's T/D bows after his 1921 patent?
Samuel McMeen, is a historically significant person to archery in his own right.
McMeen's 1919-1926 periodical, "Archery" is just one example of his contributions. Would have to guess that Tox Collector has all eight issues. For the past 30 years, have unsuccessfully looked for the Aug 1919 issue to complete my set.
I have to ask... Is there anything interesting in that first issue that we should know?
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I was fortunate to obtain a bound copy of all eight issues from Clement C. Parker who noted on the free end paper: "The rarest of archery publications, U.S.A. or elsewhere - perhaps one of only 3 known sets." On the second free end paper he noted: "Purchased from Mary C. Elmer, Widow of Dr. Robert P. Elmer, May 19, 1952. - Clement C. Parker."
The first issue is just eight pages long. McMeen acknowledged that the publication would be 'occasional'. He went on to say: "...we will need just two things. Stuff to print and addresses of archers. The expense will take care of itself." As I recall, McMeen also helped to underwrite the expense of publishing "American Archery" by Robt. Elmer., 1917.
The first issue [August, 1919] contains a number of comments pertaining to the upcoming NAA tournament scheduled for August 26th through 29th, 1919 in Boston. Homer Taylor, who shot in the first NAA tournament of 1879 and won it in 1882 and 1911, was planning on competing.
A short paragraph told about Dr. Pope's, Young's and Compton's bear hunting trip to Humboldt County, California. Six of eight arrows went through and bear and were lost.
It was noted that "Dr. Saxton T. Pope is the only Anglo Saxon, so far as known, who ever made a Turkish type, composite bow. Dr. Elmer will try for the flight shoot championship with it in Boston."
"Professor E. J. Rendtorff, of whom it has been said that he is the greatest archer since Horace Ford, will not shoot in Boston in August. He writes. "The call of the wild is so strong I will spend the summer in a canoe and a tent. Will cover over a thousand miles in that canoe." I would like to spend all summer canoeing and camping.
"American Archery" [the book] is advertised.
The Forest Products Laboratory is quoted as saying: "Of all the species that we have tested we find Port Orford cedar to be the stiffist coniferous wood in proportion to its weight... Douglass fir of the coast type, we find to be nearly as stiff in proportion to its weight as Port Orford cedar."
There is some discussion as to the point of aim shooting method, and it was pointed out that the method was known back in Roger Ascham's time.
McMeen noted: "The editor has access to most of the bibliography of archery, practically all of it being out of print. He will be willing, within reasonable limits of time and drudgery, to answer questions which reference to that literature can settle." I guess a number of us are kind of engaged in doing this today.
I would have liked to have seen his collection. Included on page 6 of the 1st issue is a photo of a Poem on the Royal Company of Scottish Archers dated 1698 [it was probably from McMeen's personal collection].
A quote notes: "One of these days, if the mailing list gets long enough, we will unfold the tale of Compton and the little buck in the blow-hole. The picture of that boy seeing that arrow find the spot where it would do the most good is one to make the back of your neck tingle." I haven't heard this story.
Some discussion centered on using yew bows in hot weather [yew has a tendency to let down in hot weather]. It was noted that Colonel Williams, a champion archer, would not use yew because of this. He would only use lemonwood or lancewood bows. George Phillips Bryant, Champion archery in 1904, 1905, 1909 and 1912 stated that "The best hot weather bow I ever had was washaba backed with elm, made thirty or more years ago. It was a wonder and I would like to see its mate."
Also cited: "If a bow string be painted with liquid glue containing a slight amount of potassium bichromate and then exposed to sunlight, the glue will be gecome insoluable in water and shed rain like a duck's back."
McMeen provided many quotes for the first issue probably to fill up space and get the publication off the ground.
Enjoy!
Tox Collector
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Wade, Let me know if you would like a copy of the first issue. Tox Collector
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Tox Collector -
I can't thank you enough for your summary of the August 1919 "Archery". I read it twice, then printed your words and put them in the book that I had bound about 30 years ago with the other seven original issues. I had the binder leave 8 blank pages at the front of the book, anticipating having him tip in the first issue when I acquired it. That hasn't happened yet, so will re-read your words until it does (the eternal optimist).
Yes, today a number of us are kind of engaged in the (very enjoyable) drudgery, of answering questions which reference literature.
I for one, appreciate yours, and everyone's efforts in this regard.
Thanks again,
Wade
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Back to the topic (after a while …): this picture is from Shelley Wachsmann, On Drawing the Bow, in: Eretz-Israel 29 (2009), pp. 238*-257*.
(http://images.imagelinky.com/1250241690.jpg) (http://images.imagelinky.com/1250241690.jpg)
"Fig. 25: Archer with composite bow, arm guard and finger tab used in the Mediterranean draw (From Von Luschan 1898, Plate X)"
That relief dates back to the 2nd millenium BC …
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jester - Great post !!!
Interesting image of the finger stalls and arm guard. The bow, quiver and arrows are also ver interesting.
The arm guard attachment method is nicely depicted. When shooing, I wonder if the ball fit over or under the notch?
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The first edition of "How to Train in Archery [1979]" has shooting gloves advertised accompanied by a sketch.
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1879
My age is showing. :)
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Cliff -
Great find of the shooting glove in the first edition of "How to Train in Archery", 1879. I frequently mistype it too, probably habit more than age (hey we will use any excuse to keep from admitting we are getting old).
Looks like eight different models are listed in 1879, five for Lady's including "laced" and "fine laced" and three for Gent's. Wonder if any laced or fine laced shooting gloves are being offered today?
It is interesting that the shooting glove was absent from the second edition of "How to Train in Archery" but reappeared in the third edition in 1905, but only offered in two models of each the Ladies' and Gents'.
Note the 1879 Lady's and Gent's was changed in 1905 to Ladies' and Gents'.
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/GLOVE.jpg)
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Cliff - Just looked in the back of "The Modern Archer" 1878, page 27, to find the Peck & Snyder shooting glove.
Seems we have found shooing gloves from many eras.