Trad Gang
Main Boards => Trad History/Collecting => Topic started by: azdriheat on January 13, 2009, 09:43:00 PM
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I have had a Kodiak bow on restoration hold status for many months now because decal transfers appearently are no longer available. Is this the end of the restoration process or is something workable in process to remedy this?
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Nope no new tranfsfers as yet.Its not that the transfers are diffecult to print its diffecult to find someone to print the transfers.Also finding a printer that prints in white transfers is near impossible and a printer who is willing to print only 4-5 transfers is really tough to find.To get replacment transfers printed is over 400.00 per set up to have a printer print only 5 transfers.Of course as a peson buys more of the transfers it would get cheaper with time.There are 4 different Bear transfers like we use today. = $400.00 X 4 set ups = $1,600.00..bd
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I wonder if we could find a printer who would do a few along in the scrap of bigger jobs.. Shovelbuck,, Where you at.. You use to work with some of this stuff
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One other thought is the transfer paper ? its actually not paper at all but a plastic-ie like paper.That allows you to remove the lettering and transfer it to the bow limb or whatever surface your working on.I checked with one company and asked the same thing about the scrap and he showed me several of their jobs and there just was no scrap material left over...I also recieved an email this morning from another printer I contacted about haveing silk screen boxes made.I myself because of the amount of transfers I use may use original type silk screening rather then the transfers.The silk screens again are a little spendy to get set up but the cost would go down from there.This has been just about a disaster since Al's untimely passing as he would print you 1-100 or how ever many you wanted of any type transfer any color any bow manufacture any time he used 3 day priority shipping and you were setting new transfers.We'll have to just keeping working at it until we get something working....bd
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Guys,
I would try these guys- they do a TON of business with waterslides in the fishing rod business and there pricing is great.
You could have one printed up for under $10.00 if memory serves correctly.
http://decalconnection.com/index.html
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It looks like I can get the colored transfers relatively cheaply... I still need to check how soluble the ink is in the various solvents used in finishes, but it looks promising. The white transfers though... bd has it right.
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Dave the problem with waterslide decals is they sometimes get small bubbles under them.Even smoothing them over with a wet Q-tip will still lieve a certin amount of bubbles under the decal.
As you add several layers of clear finish over the decals it tends to really hilight the bubbles too.
There is also no adheive on water decals but rather the vinyl ink ? that just kind of sticks.Even if set between 3-4 layers of finish water decals still will come unglued or peel and pop your new finish off.
I know someone who sells waterslide decals.There around 40.00 for both.But they are not up to the standards for my work.However they do work OK..bd
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BD,
I can understand that- obviously the fly rods my company makes have a much smoother surface which helps mitigate bubbles from forming.
I would also look at this company-
http://pulsarprofx.com/DecalPRO/index.html
We utilized this system prior to moving forward with a decal system because of time it took to create and make a logo, etc.
This system allows you to create white graphics but does require the use of a laser printer. It works awesome and may be just what you guys are looking for.
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Does anyone have a good digital image of the slikscreens? My photos aren't good enough (crappy camera) and scanning isn't an option for me.
I want to try the next test printing on an actual bow instead of just plexiglass. These are dry transfers.
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Jeremy what year bow do you need pics of ? bd
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bd, a '57 Kodiak would be great, but anything would be helpful and if you need a set of decals for something send it along. I'm not sure how the pale yellow is going to turn out over brown glass. I can't get the exact shade printed (no white ink) and need to rely on the glass toning down the yellow. The darker colors should look good. I still need to see how the ink is affected by different finishes... should have a better idea by the weekend if this is worth going after.
Someone who's good with photoshop should be able to take a picture, isolate the silkscreen from it and be able to change the color at will. I don't have the software to do that and I'm trying not to spend too much money on this.
Anyone want to volunteer?
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Okay guys I'm a little confused.
The decals I got from Al were not a true white but were a cream color anyway. They looked light yellow on the tranfer carrier but when applied they looked more white.
Trap
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AIG, Has the masters?? and isn't selling/making them??
More to that than meets the eye,
I read he is starting to refinish some of the bows he list's.
Wonder if he's just keeping them for his projects or what.
Doesn't sound like a good idea to invest a bunch of money and time,when he can probably undercut whoever gets her done.I know somebody will do it,just wonder why he isn't
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one reason no selling no printing is the selling price was 40.00 per set.I'll pass on that...bd
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what you see is what I got...well sort of.One of those Super K transfers could be used as a master and reprinted by scaning and then in yellow(1958-1963) and or green(63ish-66)and would replace most early Kodiaks.bd (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/decal004.jpg) (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/decal006.jpg) (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/decal001.jpg)
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How did aig get the masters,and are they the ones Bear archery used.
Terry
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One of Al's decals would be the main one someone could use to copy today rather then to have an artist make a master to copy.
Here's a piece of the plastic-ie like paper some of Al's later transfers were printed on this type.But I don't got the sticky backed transfer paper to remove the lettering once printed on the sample...bd (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/tranies001.jpg)
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a water-based finish didn't do anything to the transfer, but solvent-based finishes softened the adhesive some. Not sure how that's going to affect the transfer in the long term. How do Al's decals hold up? Can you peel them up while the finish is wet? May need to switch to a different PSA.
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I sent 2 bows off to be refinished a while back, and I included a couple sets of Al's decals for '59 Kodiaks to go on my bows. The person refinishing the bows emailed me a couple months ago and told me the first coat of Fullerplast destroyed the decals, something about using the wrong thinner in the mix... so be careful what you use. Guess I am getting some water transfer decals on my bows instead of the decals Al had sent me before he died. I just came across the last letter Al sent me yesterday, what a great guy to deal with, a real gentleman.
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I found the last email AL sent me while going through the computer last night... glad I saved it. He attached the images of the early 50's Grizz, Kodiak and Polar transfers that were used by the printer. He also sent good pictures of his other transfers, but they're too small to use.
I'll play around with these a bit more before looking at a different adhesive. I'm wondering if putting a thin coat of CA over to seal them might prevent the finishes from affecting the adhesive.
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Hey Jeremy all the standard printing is done in standard size lettering.There are a million different sizes but its a standard size with printing companies that fits the transfers..
I would be more then happy to help you guy's out with the solvent ie thinner problems melting the transfers.However it will take me to long to explain the teckno turm and I'am not sure I could.But what happens is the thinner is applaid and is almost as thick or thin if you prefer as your transfers that will allow the transfer to set to long in the thinner before the thinner evaporates causeing the ink to become soft and in some cases run right down the limb.
The best way I ever found to do both transfers and decals is once you have them set.Make your first applacation of new finish a super super thin coat.I normally will kind of not even make a complete covering over the transfer or decal on the first 3-4 coats.I make maybe one or two quick passes and let that track for about 20 minutes pending on your type finish your using.It will almost look orange peel and thats OK.Let it set about 20 min.and then another super thin coat and so on.It takes me just about 2 hours to cover them so they will not melt.Its even better if you can app.your finish over 3-4 days covering the transfers.
Another thing is if you try and cover them with some type of finish on a brush or gun stock finish on a brush or rag.That will wipe the transfers or waterslide right off the limb.Its far better if you can spray over them and really take your time should help solve the problems with melting...bd
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anybody anything yet ? I got one lead on a printer near me that will take a look at what I got.He says the problem is printing only 100 or so is costly.keep me posted bd
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I'll be testing a few more on plexiglass this weekend. The issure I'm having isn't with the plastic or ink used, but the pressure-sensitive adhesive. Do you know what Al was using???
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Jer there actually was no adhesive on Al's decals.They were a bit tacky but that was caused by the transfer paper.I would be more then happy to send you a couple samples of what I have left of the decals to look over and see if that would help ??? keep me posted bd
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Here is some info that may or may not help if we all share what we know I'am pretty certin this bird will fly soon.
One is you can print any transfers any color with a lazerjet printer(not white).The trick is the paper.The paper Al was using at one time was called parchment paper(spelling)and also the heavy heavy duty plastic-ie like wax paper the meat cutter places between your steaks its sold in the bakeing supply section and the meat cutter will usely give you 3-4 feet of the heavy duty stuff for free.That paper would allow the letters to be removed witout sticking.There vinyl letters as Rich mentioned.The letters were pulled off with some type of paper that has or had something to do with iron a print on to your tee shirts type paper kit sold at Staples.I ai'nt got a clue.I can barely answer emails and stuff.
I just looked at a printer that sells for 490.00 and it will print everything needed less white.I showed the guy the sample of the paper and he said they is no problem at all printing on it...they did not sell the tee shirt printing kits there.So I have to go to Staples and check it out.
Al used a digital camera program to resize almost everything with or a photo shop program.I emailed him pics of almost every bear silk screen that he did not have of his own or a good photo.I've emailed him Howatt Drake and many others pics of decals and or silk screens and he would print them and they would be on my door step in 3-4 days.keep me posted if there is anything else you can think of..we gotta get this bird airbone soon..bd
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The decals I've settled on working with (the ones that required the least $$ for me to get started) are printed on a paper-backed thin plastic in mirror image. After the ink dries the plastic is coated with an adhesive. Once that dries you cut it out, place it on the surface and use a soft pencil or something to rub over it.
For the latest test a second layer of adhesive was put on. It seems to be holding up very well. Next up will be to put two of 'em on a '56 Kodiak I need to refinish anyway and see how they work out.
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I saw a TV commercial for this item. I'll bet you could use it to make decals.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0019IJMTC/ref=asc_df_B0019IJMTC696116?smid=A1ROZDTKM3L1EG&tag=shopzilla_rev_1182-20&linkCode=asn
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Interesting I did check out one type machine like that.It did not do the correct size letters and could not do registry marks.Seems the one from ama.is a little different type machine.I will try and check it out a little more.Thanks toadster you da man..bd
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Let me get this straight...
The more the decals that are printed, the cheaper they are to print, right?
Just tell them to keep the printer going until they are free.
Problem solved!
Jerry
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I like that idea.Free I can afford..bd
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they say the dumest question is one u dont ask so here goes the new kodiak have the decals as the old one and could bear archery still have any of the old stuff or be of any help
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Nope Bear Archery was no help when I checked with them.They were really not even interested at all...bd
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I'll have an update on some transfers this weekend. I put a pair of the early 50's standing bear decals on a bow. I want to put a few more coats of finish over one of them and abuse the snot out of them to make sure they hold up like they should. If that works out I'll try to get the color right for some of the silkscreens and send a few your way bd. You too Rich, if'n you ask nicely ;)
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Try as I might, I can't get the lighter colored decals to work out without having a white ink in the mix, and I can't get that done without big $$$.
Good luck to anyone else working on this!
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Hi Jeremy I'am at the point I may have to go to the silk screen printer and have boxes made.Its a one time charge.Might be the way to go..bd
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I was thinking the same thing bd.
One thing to think about: you can have it silkscreened on one of the transfer papers. I know it would work with the paper I'm using and I'm assuming it'd be fine with many of the other options as well. At least then you could maybe sell the transfers to the DIY'er and do silkscreens on the ones you refinish.