Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: doublewhopper on December 01, 2007, 08:00:00 PM
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Anyone shoot over 30 yard with consistant success? If so whats your mental strategy and mindset?
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Heck yea you did say 30 feet right. :biglaugh:
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yeah I spend quite a bit of time shooting far as far as 60 yards (Not hunting mind you) I dont need to get Internet bashed. But when you spend quality time shooting far your mind seems to see the close 20 yd shots entirely different, Focus and stability are much greater. At that distance I gap shoot to avoid arrow loss, Bow arm stability I think is key...
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On our 3d range we shoot many long shots, sometimes thru the brush. We lose a lot of arrows, but we have a blast. None of us ever take long hunting shots, but on the 3d range, nothing is too far (provided the range is clear and safe).
We all love to watch the arrow fly.
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Well I'll get killed for this, but I'll own up to feeling comfortable at 30. I have only taken that shot twice at game resulting in good hits and short blood trails. I do practice at longer ranges but I won't take anything that isn't in my comfort zone. Sometimes that is only 20 yards with cover, alertness of the animal, etc deciding that comfort zone. I gap shoot and my spot on with 3 under is 40 yards. I practice that distance alot but the groups are not what I'd want. It does make shorter shots seem easier. Here in Illinois we have alot of field edge stands and 30 yards is not a long way into a field. I also (gulp) range the distance to my comfort zone (30 yards) and draw the line in the sand there. Anything inside that line in the field will get shot, anything outside that line will walk. NO EXCEPTIONS! I let a 130 inch deer walk Oct 3rd. He was 32 yards, and yeah I could have killed that buck probably, but I know my limitations. Right now 30 yards is it, it's were my groups are close, and I'm fine with that.
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I don't think there is any thing wrong taking a longer shot if you are proficient at that range. Also nothing wrong with range finding. Better to be sure of your yardage. I'm sure there will be all kinds of argument about this topic. If you KNOW you can, then go for it. If you are not sure, then do not. At the range, do what you like as long as you are safe.
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I regularly practice out to 70 yards. I will shoot game--IF EVERYTHING IS PERFECT--at 30 yards in a heartbeat.
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Originally posted by Matty:
yeah I spend quite a bit of time shooting far as far as 60 yards (Not hunting mind you) I dont need to get Internet bashed. But when you spend quality time shooting far your mind seems to see the close 20 yd shots entirely different.
I couldn't agree more. I routinely practice with broadheads out to 50 yards. On our club's field course, I shoot out to 80 (sometimes a lot at that distance).
Yesterday afternoon I was at the club shooting indoors. We can get out to about 42 yards on the indoor range. Another club member showed up while I was shooting and we started to chat. He asked me how far I shoot whitetails. I told him I personally like them 20 and in, but I'll stretch to 25 if everything's dead perfect. I figure if I can keep all my arrows in the kill zone at 40 yards on the range, 20-25 on a live deer in the field becomes a chip shot.
When a person only practices out to 20 yards and then shoots deer at that distance, what he/she is doing it attempting the most difficult shot they know at a live animal. I'm just not personally comfortable doing that.
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I'm 100% on whitetails at or a bit over 30 yards currently. Mind you, I've only killed one so have some grains of salt with that. :-)
My practice is mostly around 20 yards, but I also practice 30 and 40 yard shots as often as I can. The shot I had seemed right so I took it.
IMO, the big problem isn't hitting a spot at 30 (or whatever), it's that the animal has more opportunity to move at 30 yards than at 20 or 10 and so on. My shot was a kill, but it was a ham shot (obviously not what I had in mind when I dropped the string). That two blade Magnus wiped out her femoral arteries on both legs but I still would rather have hit the heart at which I was aiming.
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I shoot field out to 60 yards every weekend and I also compeat seriously to the same distances.
It's not a matter of "do I" it's a matter of "I have to"
I use my arrow tip at that range and if I know the distance I don't find it anymore difficult that 20-30 yards.
In hunting situations, I wouldn't hesitate to take a 30 yard shot provided the conditions are right.
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I don't think it's can you hit from long range, as much as how much energy has the arra lost. How far can you shoot and still get good penetration, good blood trails, quick humane kills. Just a thought.
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Most hunters practice at longer ranges. The ones who don`t, should.
As we all know, shooting ability is only part of the long shot equation. A deer that is at ease, feeding on acorns at thiry yards is a different animal than one that has just caught your scent from the same distance.
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Jason
"When a person only practices out to 20 yards and then shoots deer at that distance, what he/she is doing it attempting the most difficult shot they know at a live animal. I'm just not personally comfortable doing that."
That's a very succinct way to put it. More folks should practice at longer range for that very reason.
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I hit a milk jug at 40 yards once, but would never try over 15 yards on a deer
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I always try to shoot game as close as possible. But I shoot a lot at farther ranges stump shooting etc. IN MY OPINION If I can't shoot out to 30yds I feel really limited. Most of the elk I have shot have been 20ys or under. But out west here our country can be a little sparse and the difference between 28yds and 20 yds might seem like a mile to close that distance. If it looks good, And I feel confident, I take the shot not worrying about distance. Not saying I will take a 50 yd shot I'm far from that. But 30 to me is a common distance.
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I have proven that I can miss anything- at any range- on any given day.
I practice up to 50 yards; I do not turn down shots at 40 - unless: I am not shooting 'diamond'.
BE once said that you should shoot at least one arrow at the start of every hunting adventure. He knew that if you shoot; and its a horrible shot; you will take a few more shots-- to get it out of your mind. After a few shots; you pretty much know if its a 'diamond day'; or a 'stone day'. I will and have turned down really close shots on 'stone days'; and made long shots on diamond days.
I normally have enough shots - that I can 'afford' not to take one- if I feel no confidence in the shot.
I prefer a good shot: on a day full of confidence; than a good shot: on a day when I am just not 'clicked in' as well.
I like to rove; and when I do that; what looks like a hit-a-ble target most often is right at 33 steps; and that is where I like to get shots at or under.
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i practice out to 50 and inside of 40 i know i could kill any critter with 4 legs and sometimes birds. that is saying it is standing infront of my target and i know exactly how far it is. in a hunting situation i would take a 30 or possibly further, as a mater of fact i have taken some uper 30s and i know that if i miss it will be a high or low shot but i have no doubt that the arrow will be inline with my spot, wich is exactly what happens at that range while hunting, a clean passthrough of some moss and roots. they always look closer or further but if i ever get it right at that range ill be eatin good
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i feel very comfortable out to 30yds and took a nice buck at 31 yds this year.
i practice constantly and will say that i have no different "mindset" or way of shooting in a hunting situation. 30yds or 3yds is all the same.... concentrate, pick a spot and follow thru!! works for me
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I practice out to 50yds and feel very confident out to 30yds,on diamonds out to 40.I practice everyday and when hunting always shoot a practice arrow from my stand with a judo at the area I expect game to show at.This year I shot my antelope at 40yds,but I prefer 25yds and under.Whitetails I prefer 25yds and under,but have taken one at 42yds.
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30 yds is my maximum, and I'm rethinking that. Probably until I'm proven different I'm shooting a Turkey Creek Longbow 43# @ 29", it's a new bow for me, so it has not proven itself yet to 30 yds. on use and heavy enough arrow for my poundage. I do have 189 fps. But what I have at 30 yd. is yet to be known, comfortable shot 10 - 25 yds But maybe by the end of December I will have a story.
Carl
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I shoot better at 30 yards than at 30 feet.
I still won't take shouts much over 20 in the woods. The longer that arrow is in the air, the more opportunity for game or wind or weather to do something unexpected.
Avoiding long shots is not just a matter of your accuracy. An archer in the field is, at best, one-third of the shot equation.
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In the past 15 yrs. the longest shot I've taken was a buck I killed at 27 yds. However I've taken whitetails out to 73 long steps back in the mid 60's when I didn't know better. I killed my first whitetail at 47 yds. and I killed a mulie at 48 yds. As for arrow penetration. The 73 yd. shot had my arrow completely penetrate both hams fortunately cutting the femoral artery. The other 2 were both pass thrus on double lung shots. While I practice at very long ranges I have a "feeling" zone and when they come into that zone I'm pretty darn accurate on game. Fortunately that feeling of "needing" a kill has long gone and I want my shots to be as sure as they can be before I let the arrow go.
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I also regularly practice out to 50 yards. BUT, I usually will not do this when hunting season gets closer. I like others gap shoot at that distance, but do not gap shoot within hunting range. I have a real hard time switching from one style to the other mentally.
All that said, I feel comfortable on a deer up to 25 yards, if everything is right. But my normal limit is about 20 yards.
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I shoot at long distances and will agree withthe guys who say it depends on the day and how I feel when th eshot presents itself. I myself have a feeling that comes over me that says I can kill that, sometimes it is 10ft. other days it is 40 yards. I like longbowman have taken some long shots and have been successful and at long distances I have never not recovered an animal I hit, I wish I could say that about all my shots. Out of the bows I was shooting than 60-70#s and a 600 to 650 grain arrow penetration was not an issue. I shot a 5pt. with my recurve at 47 yards and double lunged him and th earrow went right on thru and kept going, I though tI shot over him at first. I know will shoot out to 40, if everything just feels right. I know I will get beat up for this but I have been to quite a few Trad. shoots and most guys at these shoots should not shoot over 15 yards on a live animal, sorry but it is what I see. Shawn
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Years that I get a lot of long range practice and being a ground hunter I like the 20 to 35 yard range. When the deer are very close I get busted more often. This year I had two deer jump the string at less than ten yards with a dead quite bow. Lucky that both were clean misses.
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Before compounds a lot of archers where shooting out there beyond 30yds your trajectory is more than a compound so your yardage estimation needs to be more accurate but once you know the yardage (rangefinders) make this easy, and know your bow very doable if your style is sight reference. Quite a different story if you’re shooting instinctive.
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Originally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
When a person only practices out to 20 yards and then shoots deer at that distance, what he/she is doing it attempting the most difficult shot they know at a live animal. I'm just not personally comfortable doing that.
Boy did ya ever hit the nail on the head with that one Jason. I shoot alot out to 50 yards and sometimes even farther. I feel very comfortable at 30 yards and sometimes will shoot farther if everything feels right. My buck this season was taken at 36 yards. I'm not a very good shot so if i can do this, with practice others can too.
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Jeff, With all due respect bud...how can you be a better shot at 30yds than you are at 30ft?
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Guru - here's my experience with a Warf I had for about 7 months this year. I could consistantly put 4 out of 5 arrows in a grapefruit @ 50 yards because it happened to be my POA, which ended up always being a better group than I could do @ 20 yards....couldn't set the gap consistantly. Not saying I'd take 50 yard shots at a deer either.
I missed a big doe @ 8 yards this year on the ground with a lh'd bow I made...sent the arrow right in front of her brisket....mental collapse...too much adrenaline flow. Missed a couple chip shots with the Warf too.
Felt like this was my first year hunting.
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I guess it's not the same as Jeff is saying...
though I couldn't gap as good at 20 as I could at 50, I could stringwalk a baseball size group at 20 with the Warf.
downside - wish I was like Rusty, but I found I fumble at the last second in hunting as to what system of aim I should use....messes with my mind too much. now I'm back to just one system and am in my old ways now.
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Guru;
Darned if I can explain it. Been this way for the last eight, nine years.
I've shot over javi at fifteen feet, walked a quarter mile further down the road and pinwheeled a texas cottontail at 32 yards. I shoot consistently left at close yardage and spot on past about 25 yards.
Took a nice eight point this year at about 14 yards. Fairly long recovery, the shot was about eight inches left and hit one lung and liver. Two weeks later I shot a turkey out of the same stand at 23-24 yards. Dead on, dead bird.
Understand, I am not advocating long shots. That turkey is the longest big game shot I have turned loose. As I said above, your proficiency is only one third of the shot equation. As distance increases, your skill becomes even less of the overall picture.
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Well said, Jason. Paul Schaefer was a proponent of long range practice as it made closer shots easier. I wish we had a field archery course nearby. I miss the 80 yard walk up and the 60 yard fan. When my shooting form seems to be giving me trouble I find that I can usually diagnose the problem more quickly shooting for a while at my point blank range than loosing a hundred arrows at 15-20 yards. Consistent shooting at long distances requires very careful and conscious awareness of your shooting form and little problems at 20 yards are big at 80 or so.
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Over the summer I shot pretty consistantly at 30yds and over. I was doing alot of 3-D shooting, but I have way more confidence when shooting at something that isn't living. When I have a deer in front of me, all I can think about are the shots I don't want to take.
Stump shooting has been a big help too!!!
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Unfortunately, I have limited my practice to 20 yards and closer. Most of my shots at game have been between 12 and 15 yards. I'm now hunting public land, after hunting Texas leases for 20 years. Over the last two years I've come to realize that I must increase my accuracy and therefore my confidence level out to 25 or 30 yards. Not that I will ever take a shot at game at that distance, but I sincerely believe that practicing it longer distances will make you a better, more comfident archer. If nothing else, it should help my 3-D scores. :archer:
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Ken,
If you tune your Warf for a 20-yard crawl and just gap for slightly high/low, you don't have worry about switching your shooting style at the last second. That option's gone. :D
I decided for grins to set mine up like that last week. Call me nostalgic for my old NFAA Barebow days. ;)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/wesbrock/Tour/IMG_3682.jpg)
The arrow goes under the upper nocking point. An eliminator button keeps it from sliding down (I had extras, so I put two more on in case the first one breaks). The lower nock marks the 20-yard crawl. And no, the arrow doesn't really go on top of the plunger. I didn't realize it had slid up there when I took the photo.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/wesbrock/Tour/IMG_3694.jpg)
A closer look.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/wesbrock/Tour/IMG_3699.jpg)
A little tip: Trying to see the tip of the arrow in low light can be difficult. Why do you think sight shooters love fiber optics and tritium? A narrow wrap of soft white Velcro makes things a lot easier in the first or last minutes of legal shooting light.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/wesbrock/Tour/IMG_3712.jpg)
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Originally posted by Bill Carlsen:
When my shooting form seems to be giving me trouble I find that I can usually diagnose the problem more quickly shooting for a while at my point blank range than loosing a hundred arrows at 15-20 yards.
I do the exact same thing. When I'm at the range and I start noticing my groups are consistently off the mark (in my case, usually right or left), I immediately back up to my point-on distance. This tells me if something went goofy in my tuning or if the problem's me.
It's usually me. :D
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"If you tune your Warf for a 20-yard crawl and just gap for slightly high/low, you don't have worry about switching your shooting style at the last second. That option's gone."
Surely that would have been the best remedy, Jason, but I (regrettably/prematurely) sold the BB Warf and Samick Extreme limbs. Best bow for tuning to all sorts of different ways of shooting bar none. Would have made an awesome 3d bow (which I don't do). Was too heavy for my type of hunting - ended up to about 4.5 pounds with bow quiver.
I like the low light remedy - thanks!
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Can you explain how the 20 yard crawl works? I've never string walked.
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JDinPA,
"Crawl" is just a sort of slang term for string-walking, as in, you kind of "crawl" your hand down the string.
The point of string-walking is to keep your anchor the same, but get the nock high enough that the tip of the arrow is directly on the spot you want to hit at a given yardage. You're basically using the tip of the arrow like a sight pin of sorts.
For example: without walking the string, my Warf is point-on at 35 yards. If I come to anchor and put the tip of the arrow on the bullseye at 35 yards, that's where the arrow should hit. But by "crawling" my hand 1 1/4" down the string and coming to the same anchor, I've gotten the nock closer to my eye. Now instead of being point-on at 35 tards, I'm point-on at 20 yards.
So for bowhunting, if a broadside deer is 20 yards away, I can come to anchor, put the tip of my arrow behind his shoulder and shoot. If he's a little closer than 20, I can just hold the tip of that arrow a little low (4" actually). If he's a hair past 20, I just hold a little high.
For a great how-to on string-walking, you may want to check out Masters of the Barebow, Volume 2. Ty Pelfrey has a great section in there where he really goes into a lot of good detail on how it's done.
Personally, I'm more of a regular gap shooter (instinctive on occasion too). But I used to string-walk competitively years ago and always had a itch to try making it work for bowhunting. So I figured I'd set this bow up for it and see if I could turn some of that white Velcro red. :)
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Guru.........I do the same thing. I started canting my bow more for the close shots, and it helped a lot. You might want to try more or less canting up close!