Trad Gang
Main Boards => Trad History/Collecting => Topic started by: kurtbel5 on March 26, 2008, 01:50:00 PM
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Over on the big auction site under other bows, is a guy claiming to be selling a bow named "swift crow"
made in the 50's by Howard Hill, authenticated by Craig Eskin (sp?),just throwing it out there for you H.H. collectors
Kurt Bel5
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I have looked at lots and lots of bows,by guy's who swear they were made by the great HH...But unless you got it in your hand...no way...Several bowyers that built bows for HH archery,signed HH's name and did it legal..Tim Mieggs and Krammer both I believe could legaley sign HH's name at one time...they made lots of bows.And put names on them bows like old crow.Jerry Hill and Craig both did too I think.But every real HH I ever saw had (and feel free to correct my spelling anytime) a convex back...or concave,it was not flat on the back...So if you could not look the bow over good......I don't know...bowdoc
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I agree with Don. Keep in mind Craig wasn't even a smile on his dad's face when Howard was making bows. By 1949 Howard had people making bows for him. 1949-54 Dale Phillips - 1954-63 Jim Darling. The Stotlers are there somewhere I haven't been able to confirm there time period. From 1965 on they moved the business to Montana and several bowyers made bows for them including those Don mentioned plus John Schultz.
Bob
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Craig Ekin owns and has handled several Hill made bows. He is likely to be the most qualified person alive with the ability to authenticate one. While every Hill bow ever made has a HH name written on it, you can clearly see the differences in handwriting between the Hills actual signature and the rest. Hills signature is unique to all the other makers that signed the bows. Don is right in that you have to look pretty close. There are several distinquising characterics of Hill made bows like limb shape, tip design, grip design etc. I do own an authentic Hill bow as does one of my buddies. The bow on the web site called "Swift Crow" sure looks like a Hill made bow. The back of a Hill made bow is convex(or concave?), but you really can't see the shape of the bow's back in the pictures. The belly of Hill made bows are flat. The signature, tips,glass and handle pretty much match Hill's unique style. You can see several examples in Craig's book on Howard Hill. I'd bet the "Swift Crow" is authentic, but would also like to handle it before putting up the cash.
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looks like the real deal to me, too bad someone engraved their pin number into it. It won't go cheap so dig deep if you are serious about buying it. Remember you don't actually "win" an auction on E8ay, you agree to pay more than anyone else in the whole world who is also interested in it...shop victoriously... yea right... just some food for thought.
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Ibshooter:
I have to disagree with you on a couple of points. I just left Howard Hill Archery, there my neighbors. While there I looked at five bows Howard made, only one of them had a convexed back they were from a very wide range of time. All were laminated, one had horn tips. Backings of several different materials. And quite a range of Signature's. Two bows that Howard had made for Ted & Betty Ekin had 2" of set back to the limbs. So don't say a bow has to have certain traits to be made by Howard.
Bob
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Gee Bob I forgot about all those guy's too.But if you guy's are looking at those HH.Just look them over good...Always remember one thing Glenn tought me.....HH was a blacksmith..his bow work may reflect that trade....meaning the bow may look like it was built by a blacksmith rather then John Shultz.Great thread guy's....bowdoc ps what was the manager of HH archery's name....he built recurves after leaveing H.H.A. made recurves and signed them HH....what was his name?????
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Bob,
I agree that over a span of many years there is a lot of variation in his bows. In the 50's his bows began to show more similarity. I have seen at least a half a dozen of his bows from this time frame that demonstrate this. The bow on e-Bay looks to fall into this period. The bow, "Walking Bear" and the bow made for Betty Ekin, both owned by Craig, have quite a few of these similarities. The Green Dragon, and Nimrod, both made by Hill, are very similiar to those bows as well. Great discussion. Thanks, Art
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Hey guys, I have seen many of the bows that howard made drom John Lee He could tell you also if it was made by Hill. I can't tell if this is one he made or not. It's looks to be. But like the others said Hill had other people make bows for him. I bet if you have a bows from the 1950-60s they both would not be the same do to each bowmaker. Just look at the new hill bows they don't look like the old hills. Howard made every bow the same way. Step by step evry one.
Cody
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I love this stuff...old bows women and whiskey....Here's a pic of the old fart working his magic on a long bow....bowdoc (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii175/bowdocsarchery/hh001-1.jpg)
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I think I remember the book "Shooting Straight" by John Shulz refering to Howard both making as well as teaching the Shulz boys how to make glassed bows during the 50's.
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I saw the auction ended for the bow in question here , it sold for $2,250.... yep... :scared:
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:scared: Boy for that price, I hope its authentic. If I paid that much I'd be torn between setting it on the rack as eye candy or shooting it. Dilemas dilemas.
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Wow!! you could salt away a few nice Kodiak's or Widows, or,well just about any bow you wanted.
Anybody know what the "made" by Jack Howard bows go for?
So,lets see we have Grumleys, Hills and Bears,anyone else thats not a current boyer who's bows go for over a grand?
Kurt Bel5
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Arrowmakr,
I have two bows with woven glass, one has the bellyglass "running" over the grip. This bows are quite different, so I don't can belive if they were made by the same bowyer ...
Peter
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Peter:
Believe as you wish, I'm only passing on what Dale told me and I don't think he would lie to me as he had nothing to gain and he's was not that kind of man.
Bob
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It was not meant that bad, arrowmakr!!
I NEVER would say Dale has spoken untrue!
I also belive that one of them was made by Jim Darling, as HH-archery stated in the old catalogs.
The two bows are complete different designed, the one is more "flatbow" the other is how we expect a Hill-bow to be ...
Best to the US
Peter
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Peter:
Jim Darling made mostly recurves for Hill Archery, its possible that its a Stotler made bow as the two of them were at Hill archery during the same time span.
Bob
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Arrowmakr,
I always liked to know a chronologic company history of HH-Archery, because I know there was Shawnee Archery, Stotler Archery, Ben Pearson etc. wich were allowed to use Howards name. BUT I never found out the real history or a kind of report in wich years/wich company has made Hill-stuff ...
Do you know this data?
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Peter:
I'll relate what information I've been able to gather.
Howards first bowyer was
Dale Phillips 1949-1954
The woven glass bows were made in 1952-53. I suppose it possible that some glass was left over and made by other bowyers, but the number of bows would be small.
Jim Darling 1954-63
Stotler was in that same time frame, but I have no firm dates. Jim primarly made recurves and Stotler the longbows.
Some where in the late 50's thru the mid 60's Dan & John Schultz were the bowyers.
1965 Howard moved back to Alabama and in 1968 Ted & Betty moved to Hamilton,MT John Schultz was their bowyer thru the mid 70's, Then John went out on his own.
Tim Meigs built bows for them out of his own shop in Carson City, NV. from 1977-1995
Ted Kramer also made bows for them from his shop in St Ignatus, Mt during that same time, but I believe only until the 1980's
Craig Ekin started building them in the late 90's up to present time.
Howard Hill Productions incorporated in 1960 as Howard Hill Archery and moved to Sun Valley,Ca.
Some time in the late 1970's Howard Hill archey recieved a copyright on their name. I don't think Stotler Archery ever used the Hill name. Ben Pearson sold Products with Howards endorsement but not sure of the exact time frame.
Shawnee Archery sold product for Howard from 1958 thru 1960-63 Then Ted and Betty sold their half of Shawnee Archery to Brother-in-law Dick Garver and started doing business only as Howard Hill Archery, moving to Hamilton,Mt as indicated above.
Hope this helps.
Bob
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My Big Five was made by Ted Kramer in 1985. His son Lee made some too.
Craig stated he started building bows in the early 80's.
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Thank's Bob!! That is enlightening my poor head -LOL
Best to US from Austria
Peter