Ok, I feel like I've been beating a dead horse for a long time now with this issue. This is what your fletchings look like when hunting in SE Alaska. I can't, for the life of me, get them to fly well with a broadhead. Wet feathers and field point, no problem, great flight. I've been trying to tweak my nock point while shooting wet-matted fletchings and broadhead to no avail. It get's sorta close at times but always some degree of screwy fly in one form or another. I feel that I know how to tune a bow (although I'm listening if there are recomendations) so that's not my question here. My question is, given the BH and wet feathers in the pics and assuming all the tuning is done right, could you make this arrow fly? If everyone says "No way!" I'll feel much better and stop messing with it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/alaskan_waters/Archery/PB280070.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/alaskan_waters/Archery/PB280072.jpg)
Vanes and an elevated rest would cure that for you.
BI- Delta makes those rain vanes made to shoot of shelf and would cure that problem for you I believe.
Yeah, I have a recurve set up like that already. It shoots fine. The set-up in testing is a longbow shot off the shelf.
So, vermonster and basic instinct, I take it you don't have high hopes for the wet feathers in the pics?
Ever try No Snow? I know I dont get the same wet weather here in NY, but No Snow worked great for me so far, spring through winter.
Have you tried Wensel Woodsman broadheads?
Personally I'd rather take the problem out of the equation myself. I'd hate to get a shot I've worked all season for and have to worry that my equipment would fail me. Get a fletch cover and don't nock an arrow until you have an opportunity and waterproof the heck out of the feathers if you really want to use them. A big broadhead will really steer an arrow so fletching is kind of important.
I don't know how many times I've heard "If it's tuned right, it don't matter" That's the thing that really bugs me. That's also the reason I keep beating this dead horse.
On a carbon or aluminum yes. A woodie is a different animal. Moisture could be getting into the shaft, etc.
You can keep the arrow nocked and make two slices in a zip lock sandwhich bag down both side and than seal it around the arrow, a little tug to get it starting to unzip and thanpull and it is off, I have had nocked arrows with feather fletches stay dry in down pours. Do not ask for a pic. get an arrow and a ziplock baggie and try, it is pretty self explainatory. Shawn
Have you tried alining the broadhead so it is horizontal to the ground. This way when it goes through paradox it wont catch any air. Worth a try
QuoteOriginally posted by The Ursus:
......."If it's tuned right, it don't matter" .......
with a field point The problem with a broadhead and no fletchings is you have a flat surface to catch wind and steer with no corrective force at the back end.
I lived on Adak-know the problem. Why not over fletch? try 4 or even 6 fletch. the idea is to stablize the arrow and it taskes X amount of surface area to get there. use a fletch cover or draga mixed bage of regular and then over fletched arrows. just think about it
I used goose feather fletch for a while - and it does 'stand up' to wet weather.
I use a catquiver now if I am hunting in wet weather.
QuoteOriginally posted by 30coupe:
Have you tried Wensel Woodsman broadheads?
No, but I know where you are going with it. Less wind planing etc. steering at the front of the arrow. I have some and may try that but I don't have the sharpening confidence I get from a 2 blade.
QuoteOriginally posted by wtpops:
Have you tried alining the broadhead so it is horizontal to the ground. This way when it goes through paradox it wont catch any air. Worth a try
Can't say that I have but I'll make a note of it next time I glue a head on.
Are you not reading the posts? Do what people are saying and waterproof your fletch and keep them covered. If you don`t do that there is no hope for solving your problem. Oh,and clean up that bench, it`s an accident waiting to happen.
I would love to try goose feathers but until I can get one in range with my shotgun it's gonna have to wait. I may try the over-fletch techneque but in the past I've had difficulty with 4 fletch kicking off the shelf funny. Probably just another can-o-worms I should stay away from.
I have an idea in my head for fletching covers like what was mentioned earlier with the ziplocks that I may have to try.
Dang rain forest!!!!
"waterproof your fletch" that's funny. All due respect, I can tell you've never hunted in Juneau, AK. I've tried all the "water proofers". The guys that make that stuff havn't ever hunted here either. Tire Wet, Black Magic, silicone powders, scotch guard, none of them work.
I have a cat quiver but the problem is that you can't pack a critter out on your back when you are wearing it. I made a tube quiver that works pretty good when strapped to my pack frame (a must) but once you pull an arrow out and it gets wet it contaminates all the other arrows in the quiver and they get soggy too.
As for the workbench, it's a loosing battle. That thing only stays clean for a week or two at most. I tinker way too much to keep that thing in any order.
Nope; Ursus I could not make that arrow fly. A friend uses condoms over his fletching in downpours that you might consider 'showers'. Personally I could not add those to my hunting trip necessities without some questions! LOL!
what if you put feather powder on before you shoot them?
it works for me
oops scrath that i see it hasnt worked for u
Another trick similar to ziplocks is baby bottle liners. Your local grocery store should have them. Put them over fletch and snap arrow on string when ready just un nock and pull off bag and re nock.
Forgot to mention above, serious gun hunters avoid wood stocks in Alaska for a reason. Moisture in wood is not good and equals bad accuracy. My thoughts are same and therefor I would suggest you consider carbon arras. Try some 160gr STOS on a 125gr steel insert on the south end of a Beeman MFX you'll be surprised how they fly. A $5.00 file and a few simple strokes and these babies are razor sharp. When I hunt moose in wet climate I switch to Silver Flames sharpest stainless (and best)head available. This way I don't worry about rust or oxidation and having to sharpen heads every day or two.
why not just make a leather elevated rest and shoot vanes, have one on my 3 piece longbow and it will shoot any type fletch no problem and you can make it sit off shelf however high you want..
p.m. me if you would like a pic
i havent shot a recurve for very long, but with my carbon shafts and plunger flipper rest, i can shoot broadheads with wet droopy feathers just fine.
is the wet feather problem common when shooting off the shelf? reason i ask is i'm thinking about trying to shoot without my sight and possibly shooting off the shelf.
thanks and good luck :)
"I can tell you've never hunted in Juneau, AK"
I have and I now know how to waterproof fletching to make them "Tongass Proof". Hint, treat them like you do your shafts. Call for clarification. LOL.
P.S. WW won't make less wind planning; Ribbies do not plane. I am assuming you spin test?
I thought maybe "Killer" Hohensee might have something to add to this subject. Steve, doesn't treating the feathers the same as the shaft make them hard? Or not enough to matter?
I know the times we hunted POW we just brought lots of extra arrows, LOL!
I have had pretty good luck using plastic vanes off the shelf.
Fletch the plastic vanes with your cock vane up,and mount your broadheads horizontal,my nock point is 5/8th inch above level.
You could also try 4-fletch vanes,(4-90 like an X)with your broadheads mounted horizontal (-)
If you shoot cockfeather in, you could use two vanes and one feather off the shelf also.
Ursus:
The problem with todays feathers is they have all been washed to make them look pretty. Get some from wild birds. Turkeys, Swans, Goose, the natural oils will still be present and your problem will stop. A friend of mine hunted the Northern B.C. a couple of years ago in his back quiver were arrows with both processed and non-processed feathers, it rained for two weeks, his non-processed fletching's were not effected, the others looked like your's
Bob
I second the baby bottle liners.
Remember, you heard it HERE first on TradGang (TM)!
To make wood arrow shafts impervious, truely waterproof, you need to use a finish that has a high oil content such as Helmsman Spar Uretane or a Spar Varnish. Fact-period. (But someone already taught you that and you already do so)
So, extend that to fletching. No, don't dip your fletch!
SPRAY the completed and fletched arrow with a few light coats of Helmsman Spar Urethane. Don't cover to thick or you'll esentially have a rigid plastic flecth.
Do this and your problem is no more!
One of trad archery's most notable bowhunters/icons was Paul Schaefer. He shot his own bow of course but he did a lot of testing to determine what set up would be the most accurate for him in all conditions. His conclusions were aluminum arrows (pre-carbon), an elevated rest and plastic vanes. As far as I know it was all he shot and those who know anything about him know how good he was at hunting and how accurate he was with his setup.I have used goose feathers on a caribou hunt in Labrador with good success. Haven't had the pleasure of hunting in really wet places like Alaska or the US Northwest. If your set up is not working for you then you need to change something, it would seem. The solution seems simple to me (an elevated rest, plastic or goose fletching and a carbon or aluminum arrow shaft) unless you are a die hard wood and feathers kind of guy. If that is the case then your situation, it seems to me, will be froth with the frustrations you are dealing with. Fred Asbell did a column a number of years ago about using the baby bottle liners. I have never tried it in the field but the liners did not affect my shooting once I got used to the noise at the shot in practice sessions.
If you want some Canada goose feathers, pm me a shipping address and I'll send you a bunch both left and right wing. These are still whole feathers, the rest is up to you.
Derek
I don't know of anyone that would tell you that you can get a broadhead flying well without good feathers on the back end.
A field point, sure. A broadhead, absolutely not.
i bare shaft tuned razorcaps and stos, i got perfect flight. i live in cordova so i feel this problem but my carbons fly great weather or not they are soaked or not.
Sleep in when it rains.
Anybody tried commorant feathers? Them things outa have enough fish oil an grease in em to survive a Tsunami!
Shawn has the answer you are looking for. It works and you dont have to spend $ and time changing your set up.
I've used goose feathers in wet weather with good success. They are softer and less durable over the long run. But have a few ready for the days of heavy rain and your good to go. Sound like Derek has some for you.
BTW how do you blood trail when it's that wet?
Mike
"BTW how do you blood trail when it's that wet?"
Promptly.
Luke,
I've bareshafted a 2 blade eskimo to 30 yards and it flew pretty darn good. Was a bit suprising and maybe a fluke.
Anyways, somethings i've done in SEAK.
baby bottle liners and rain and stain. It worked well as long as you didnt mash your feathers down.
Something I wanted to dry is a fly fishing product called watershed.
Bill Matlocks tuning guide shows how to set up for shooting vanes off the shelf. I thought there was an article in TBM similar too and referencing this. I havent tried it yet, though I'd like too. More to ponder.
I am confused, I thought you said you had a recurve setup with the Bi Delta Rain Vanes. How come you cannot use them on the Longbow? I thought their whole concept was to be able to shoot off the shelf.
"I thought you said you had a recurve setup with the Bi Delta Rain Vanes"
Never tried them for either bow but I'm sure they'd work for both.
I'm gonna try Steve's method first then look into the baby bottle liners which my wife already has in stock and doesn't use. Lot's of great advise guys keep it comming!
I'm going to throw in my 2 cents here.A couple of weeks ago opening day of pheasant season here in Jersey it was a cold, wet, miserable day . Wet snow, mixed with rain lasted until around 10:30. I was with Bucky and a compound shooter well Bucky took a button buck at 7:30 but he said he would stay in until we chose to get down so he wouldn't mess us up.When we came down I looked at my 5 1/2 " feathers they were wet and matted like your feathers Bucky's 5 1/2 inch banana cut feathers were PERFECT wet yes but not flat and matted I guess they fly fine too. I used to shoot "naners" too but switched. They are the way to go as far as I'm concerned on rainy, wet, snowy days. One other thing I have found out is I shoot carbons and my practice arrows are missing sections of feathers in various spots from hitting each other. They still fly as well as an arrow with three full feathers. I always said if you bare shaft a carbon and get it to fly right you can shoot the darn thing with out feathers.With field points. So I guess what I'm saying is in extreme weather conditions shoot carbons and banana style feathers. Just my 2 cents.