Trad Gang

Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: flint kemper on November 27, 2007, 09:25:00 PM

Title: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: flint kemper on November 27, 2007, 09:25:00 PM
Just wondering if there is that much difference between OL's and John's shop. I know the tips on the A&H's seem to be wider. Other than that what's the reason. Thanks Flint
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Whip on November 27, 2007, 09:33:00 PM
I've not shot either OL's or A&H's, so have no idea whether there would be any difference between bows.  
My guess without knowing any better is it might have something to do with supply and demand.  OL had such a backlog he wasn't even adding names to a list, and those that were on it waited 3 years if I remember right.  Somebody that waited that long for a bow was probably not likely to let go of it once it was delivered.  A&H are more available, and not quite as irreplaceable, even though they might shoot just as good.

That's just a guess.  Only those who have bought and sold either or both could tell you for sure.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Jeff U on November 27, 2007, 10:06:00 PM
My guess is that current owners have realized that A&H is producing quicker and will eventually be able to catch up with demand.

There was a time when scarcity drove ACS prices north of $1,500.

As supply catches up, these very high prices will be history.  In the past, buying one of these bows was a no risk deal since you could sell it for more than you paid.  That dynamic is now changing.

So if you have one, or just got one, and are thinking of selling, sooner is better than later.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: draco on November 27, 2007, 10:59:00 PM
The sellers all seem to mention something about not liking the grip in their ads.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: TaterHill Archer on November 27, 2007, 11:05:00 PM
Draco hit it on the head for me.  I'm not selling because I'm trying to hurry up and sell before the price drops, I'm selling because the grip doesn't fit me.  I've talked to others that said they were ok with the grip, but it's not right for me.

I have a few other bows on order, so I also need to finance them.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: rastaman on November 28, 2007, 07:10:00 AM
i've got O.L.'s & A. & H.'s and i like them both. i was never much on a 3-piece till i got my first.  i don't know if it was the weight of the bow or what, but i shoot better.  i like the grip.
Randy
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: gilf on November 28, 2007, 07:28:00 AM
I think it might just be that the fact you would have to wait 2+ years on the list meant that when it came round to your turn for one people had a choice buy then or wait another 2 years. Because there are so few around (relatively) it's likely people simply purchased them without having shot one, they also knew because of the long list that they could sell it on for little or no loss if it didn't suit.

I'm more than happy with mine.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: BobW on November 28, 2007, 08:27:00 AM
I think it is that the wives found out...
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Bjorn on November 28, 2007, 09:16:00 AM
They have sold quite a number-at a 3D meet last Saturday I noticed 7 ACS CX's and there were probably more. The grip is about the same as other R/D bows like Morrison, BW etc. Just to name a few. My son and I quite like ours, to each his own-right?
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: md126 on November 28, 2007, 09:28:00 AM
my two cents....    these bows are way over-hyped and after all the wait and $$$ there is no way that any bow could live up to that.

IMO ppl are beginning to realize that the bow is not any better than any other high-end bow and are dissapointed. after that its off to the classifieds..........

just my opinion
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Plug on November 28, 2007, 09:55:00 AM
Ditto.  The bows really received a lot of favorable reviews.  Most likely deservedly so.  I am sure they are great bows.  But perhaps many (not all) bought them looking for that "magic" bow when in reality what they needed is not contained in any bow but in things like good form, practice, and natural ability.  Having plunked down a lot of $$$ for the bow they found it not much better than the bows they had been shooting because their problem was not the bow.  When I say that I'm not saying they were bad shots.  Just that they were hoping the bow would make them better.

I predict in a bit we'll be seeing a lot of DAS bows on the market for the same reason.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: snag on November 28, 2007, 10:00:00 AM
I think it also is because GUYS LOVE TO BUY AND SELL BOWS! Those that have ACS-CX probably also buy other bows. Some sell and may regret it some day. Others like a different bow better. I bought one for a good price. I love how it shoots where you look. I put a put a rubber grip cover on it and now I love the way it shoots. The grip was a little too slippery for me. My Blacktails have the checkered grip I don't need the cover on them. I doubt I will sell this ACS-CX. It does shoot smooth and with authority.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Dave Lay on November 28, 2007, 10:36:00 AM
Plug I think has it, we did some testing with a buddys acs and found it to run about even in chrono numbers as a local boyers longbows, just dont see that much diffrence, my buddy sold his shortly after that.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Toxophilite on November 28, 2007, 11:29:00 AM
Snag has a good point.  
Hi, my name is "Toxophilite" and I'm a bowtradeaholic.  
Traded into an ACS/CX a few months ago. Found it to be a fantastic bow.  It lived up to its reputation as a very fast, dead in the hand, well balanced weapon. For a variety of reasons not related to the bow, I decided to sell it recently and will probably be sorry I did.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: crosseye on November 28, 2007, 11:44:00 AM
i have to think that too many people are caught up in the "speed/chrono" numbers of acs bows rather than realizing the performance difference they possess.  i have only seen 1 acs bow perform.  it was about 4 years ago at a 3D shoot.  with 8-9 gr/lb arrows, it was comparable to some of the other bows there speedwise, but then the guy said. "watch this!"  he proceeded to pull his hunting weight arrow out of his quiver (it was around 13 gr/lb) and it shot SO much better than our bows with heavy arrows.  i think that is the big difference in the ACS bows, at least that is what i perceived.

stan
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: eagle24 on November 28, 2007, 11:49:00 AM
I recently went on a 5-day (outfitter) bowhunt in IL.  It was a fairly expensive 5-days of hunting.  Was it worth it?  Absolutely!  Is it worth it to someone else?  I have no idea.

I had one of my two ACS-CX for sale in the classifieds.  I began having nightmares the night I put the bow up for sale.  Monday, I marked the thread "sold".  The bow is no longer for sale and the nightmares went away.

Most ACS-CX owners I have met still have their bows and believe they are tops.  I know DAS, Morrison, Black Swan, Shrew, self-bow shooters, etc..... that feel the same.  Man it is great to live in the USA!

Oh, I have a bow with O.L. limbs and one with A&H limbs.  I like the O.L. limbs best, but can't really say they are any better.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: kawika b on November 28, 2007, 12:04:00 PM
What Greg said,,, I too can attest to the nightmares,,, totally regret selling my 58" 1pc Adcock ACS CX,,,, totally. I just got a 3pc and find that I can't just shoot it like any other bow I've had,,, needs some gettin used to. One thing for sure,,, the ACS CX does perform.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: JohnV on November 28, 2007, 01:15:00 PM
Most people are unaware that A&H has come out with a new wood riser that is 2" longer and has more of a recurve style grip.  They do not have any pictures or mention it on their website.  They had one model on show at Compton's.  I liked the new riser so much I had them hold my order until they program their CNC machine to cut the new riser for a lefty bow.  With the limbs used on their 62" 3-piece, the bow length with the new riser will be 64".  Those who are not crazy with the current grip/riser will want to take a look at this.  Should be any time.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: swampbuck on November 28, 2007, 01:21:00 PM
John maybe they need new fixture's but programming from a rt to a lft hand would be a rather simple procedure just mirror at the machine or if their cad system is up to date they can mirror it there without screwing up their offsets(which side the cutter cuts on)

Not sure why so many for sale,can't say that mine won't be if somebody ever gets it done that is and the wait is longer than 3 yrs too unless your waitin on John @ A&H who seems more prompt
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: bayoulongbowman on November 28, 2007, 03:04:00 PM
I shot OL's and the AH...my Jeff Massie( Longhorn) shoots better than either...never did buy into the hype myself...dont get me wrong , shoot what works for you...that is  why baskin robbins has 31 flavors ...   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: vermonster13 on November 28, 2007, 03:07:00 PM
Larry sent me pictures of the new riser. It is pretty sweet looking.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Ted Fry on November 28, 2007, 03:22:00 PM
Beauty is in the eye of the bowholder
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: RamiusEng on November 28, 2007, 03:29:00 PM
In the U.S. people vote with their bucks.  Same holds true for bow trading...   :knothead:
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Pinecone on November 28, 2007, 08:20:00 PM
Good one, Ted!  I agree!

Claudia
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Bjorn on November 28, 2007, 08:21:00 PM
You're right Vermonster that is a sweet riser-2" longer than the regular one; and oh so seductive!
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Pat B. on November 28, 2007, 08:34:00 PM
Eagle24
         I'll still trade the 49's for the 41's.. They're fast and strong.....
What ya think?  $100 boot ??
                   PB
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Shawn Leonard on November 28, 2007, 08:47:00 PM
It is like anything, when it first comes out. I remember a VCR selling for close to $400 in the seventies, now $29. as the market gets flooded with more and more(due to A&H making them up as fast as they can turn them out)the price for used ones will drop. My wife always says "whatever blows your hair back!" I love to buy and trade for bows, over 110 in 7 years. My number came up last March for an A&H bow, in the mean time I had found what blew my hair back and decided I would not order one, but that is just me!  :bigsmyl:  Shawn
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Ghost Dog on November 28, 2007, 09:05:00 PM
There are no magic bows, but there are a lot of great bows. Some of the very best bows I have owned have been from low profile bowyers who charge reasonable prices and make reasonable claims. Some of these bows can be had for 700.00 or less and delivered in a couple of months or less.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: kawika b on November 28, 2007, 11:31:00 PM
How much would the poundage drop be? I forget the math for figuring that out.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: vermonster13 on November 28, 2007, 11:47:00 PM
Around a pound per inch of added length Kawika.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: kawika b on November 28, 2007, 11:52:00 PM
Thanks Dave,,, that'll save money if I wanna drop a few pounds,,, no need to buy new limbs. Any word on the price?
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Bjorn on November 28, 2007, 11:57:00 PM
Kawika is listening to his shoulder!
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: kawika b on November 29, 2007, 12:06:00 AM
Bjorn,,, i'm listening to everyone tellin me to listen to my shoulder but,,, IT'S HARD TO NOT SHOOT YOUR BOWS!!!
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Bjorn on November 29, 2007, 10:11:00 AM
The new risers should be on their web site in a day or two paired with available limbs. Probably intended as 'stocking stuffers' for the loved ones! Somebody get me one!
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: John Nail on November 29, 2007, 01:41:00 PM
Question:
Can't you get an ACX with any grip you want?
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Lefty on November 29, 2007, 06:18:00 PM
John and Larry make an outstanding product!  I can't say why people are selling them, because the thought has never crossed my mind.  Even though I still have one on order with OL and hope to one day get it, John and Larry will see more of my money.  That new 16" riser is haunting me.  I got to finger print one at Compton, but since it wasn't a lefty, didn't get to shoot it, but man was that grip nice!  As far as my A&H ACS CX, it is hands down the best bow I have ever shot.  My wife said after one arrow shot through it, she new I was going to buy it and that was at Compton 2006.  She says she wished she could have taken a picture of my face right after that first arrow was shot.  For me, it was priceless.  I have been offered things from cash to Canada bears hunts for it, but it isn't for sale or trade.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: ronda on November 29, 2007, 06:37:00 PM
i have been on the waiting list since july first at a&h. what is the normal waiting period.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Shawn Leonard on November 29, 2007, 07:18:00 PM
Maybe it is me, but I have shot one and I have shot a ton of other bows. I was just as impressed by a lot of other bows as far as speed and quietness. I also found the ACS CX to be harder to hit with right away than most other bows. Great bows for some not so great for others. It all boils down to supply and demand, now there is a greater supply the demand has lessened and people are looking for something else to try. Shawn
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Bjorn on November 29, 2007, 09:07:00 PM
Vermonster did Larry give you a price on the new riser?
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: vermonster13 on November 29, 2007, 09:11:00 PM
He did.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Bjorn on November 29, 2007, 09:51:00 PM
Are you sharing that number?
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: vermonster13 on November 29, 2007, 09:56:00 PM
I figure Larry should because I don't know if it is the number. This was back when they were still doing some testing and I had some hand/grip issues in the spring.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Bjorn on November 29, 2007, 10:16:00 PM
:thumbsup:   cool!
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: kawika b on November 29, 2007, 10:21:00 PM
very cool,,,
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Doug in MI on November 30, 2007, 09:17:00 AM
You could ask the same question about alot of the more recognized bow names. Why so many for sale?
Some of these companies have the technology and or the personel to build them faster than others and that probably accounts for the biggest reason so many pop up for sale.   :campfire:  
If you have been at Trad Gang very long you will see a trend develope and its fun to watch. It ususaly starts out by a few guys telling about this great new bow they just got,pictures soon follow.  :archer:  
 Nothing wrong with the bow its just fun to sample whats out there.And I'm sure the bowyers apprieciate the business and the positive talk about what they build.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: ks_stickbow on November 30, 2007, 09:25:00 AM
if people didn't sell any of thier high end bows I sure as chocolet pudding would never own one...thank you all that can afford new high end bows and sell them!!!
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: snag on November 30, 2007, 09:45:00 AM
Right on Ks! They are just spreading the love!
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: DesertDude on November 30, 2007, 11:55:00 AM
I had a chance at a A&H 52# @ 28" 62" BOA quiver and case $900 Outstanding conditiion... That being said the grip just didn't fit..It pushed my hand up by the shelf, causing the fletching to take a chunk out of my hand on every shot. I tried LW, RW, nock-in, nock-out, (5" parabolic) nothing worked. I also found the bow to shoot real fast but, real MOODY. If this bow fits you Great. Just not for me. Mark
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: vermonster13 on November 30, 2007, 12:01:00 PM
The new riser might serve you better Mark
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: snag on November 30, 2007, 07:31:00 PM
I put a rubber sleeve on the grip and it shoots really well for me. Without it I couldn't consistantly grip the bow. But with it I lay my hand on the grip the same everytime and it stays put!
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: kawika b on December 01, 2007, 12:07:00 AM
that sounds like a good idea snag,,, i like the looks of the leather grip on mines but it tends to make my hand slip.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: Bowhunter4life on December 01, 2007, 07:53:00 AM
I think the grip issue is the main selling point on the A&H wooden riser versions.  It is small, but sounds like it is being addressed as we speak.  The metal riser is a bit larger with a bit more distance between the arrow and your hand which prevents the arrow from "biting" at least my hand at the shot.  

I like them, and the only reason I had my A&H up for trade for a DAS Master is that I have another 3-piece CX with aluminum riser coming from O.L. with a heavier set of limbs.  They are a fantastic bow IMO, and are getting to be a lot more readily available through the "shop" in Michigan.
Title: Re: Why so many new ACS's for sale?
Post by: kawika b on December 01, 2007, 10:23:00 AM
The new risers look nice,,, finger groves and all. Grip does look to be a lower one too.