I'm trying to get a feel for the yardage increase vs accuracy the das bows offer over a stickbow. I decided to use a wheel bow for a year or two elk hunting because I can use the range increase it gives me. As many here know they offer a level of accuracy that is well beyond what is needed and I wondered if experienced das shooters would offer their opinions on whether or not the das bows would allow me to get what I need. I hunt solo and have more than once had the large bulls hang up around 45 yards which is a bit beyond my comfort zone with the stick. I'm comfortable out to around 35 with the longbow and well over 70 with the x-force, any opinions on where a das would land me once I had it tuned and spent some time with it.
Denny,
I am mainly a longbow shooter. Have been most of my life other than my few brief affairs with recurves. Bought a DAS earlier this year and practiced with it a fair amount in spring and early summer. My 53# DAS has about the same cast as my 60# longbow from what I saw. As far as accuracy.... I am still hunting with my longbow. Nice shootin' bow, but no magic bow if that is what you are looking for. JMHO dino
No traditional bow will automatically "give" you effective range. The key advantage the DAS and some other metal-risered bows give you is their adjustability. This, in turn, allows you to more easily (and probably more completely) achieve a perfect tune. Having shot a perfectly tuned bow next to what I used to think was perfectly tuned, I'll tell you that it may make you feel like you can stretch the effective range some....and some may be able to. I found that I was able to become more consistent, day in and day out....out to my effective range.
Another advantage offered by the DAS line and some others is the use of olympic style limbs. The technology used and the performance and feel attained thereby offer more of that sought after consistency.
And the last of the three most critical advantages offered by this bow is the stiffness of the riser material. This leads to less vibration and thus less wasted energy and noise.
Couple a DAS riser with some premium limbs, learn to REALLY tune, shoot lots of practice, and you'll be on your way.
-Rob
Thanks guy's,,, You hit the nail on the head Dino, I think I was hoping for a magic bow. denny
It is a magic bow :p I have owned a lot of bows and I can shoot more consistently from one shot to the next with my Dalaa. I can go out to 45 yards w/o a sight and still get a pie plate size group.
I shoot a Dalaa and an Elite.They are the finest shooting recurves I've ever tried and I've tried a bunch.I may take some heat for saying it but if I knew I was going to be shooting 45 yards at elk I think I would stick with the compound.My comfort zone is more like 30 yards or less.I have made a lot of good shots at longer range. I just might not be able to do it every time.
I sold my hunter,I could/can shoot circles around it with my "old" hoyt recurve.
Their just another bow.
I have added about ten yards to my effective range with the DAS. It is a magic bow. I have been shooting for over half a century and have shot and owned lots of bows. I can tell you this, if you do not mess it up, that is, play with the tillering and try to do "things" to it it can be very much just another bow. However, if you have it tuned correctly, tillered properly you will have a shooting experience that will surprise you. In addition, various qualities of ILF limbs can be put on the bow affecting the shooting characteristics. My first DAS had Hoyt G3 limbs that were dogs compared to the Winex limbs that are on my bow and my wife's. My wife shoots 45# @ 26" and her bow shoots right up there with any number of high end bows that I have that are 60+ at 28". If you are a person who is not good with tuning and doesn't understand tillering then the bow can be a headache. I had a fellow bring a Dalaa over to "fix". He had trouble setting it up. When I got it it had me stumped for a while until we set it up for even tiller. The bow came to life at that point. I think they are amazing bows and, in response to your original question I have found that I can get about 10 more yards added to my effective range. Part of it is the cast, part of it is the stability, and part of it is the limbs you choose to put on it. I am not saying that anyone here who has posted that the bow is not "magical" isn't capable of tuning...but my experience has been that those that have trouble getting top performance with them really had the same trouble with that issue to begin with and I have found myself educating people about such things as tiller, nocking points, brace height, bare shafting, etc.
I would like to add this as it may help. Most of my bows have been in the 65-70# range shooting arrows at around 600 grains. My point on with them, shooting split fingers, achoring in the corner of my mouth, is about 60 yards. My 60# DAS bow, shooting 600 grain Beman or Axis arrows is point on at about 75 yards...and more accurate.
Thank you for the responses guy's this is a first class forum and why I ask the question here. I need to buy one and give it a go and will probably do that prior to the 09 season depending on what happens next year.
The funny thing is that I did not like the bow the first month or so of ownership. It took a while to get used to it but now I can't think of a better bow.
I have to agree with dino--there ain't no magic bows. There's no substitute for time spent behind the bow, whichever one you choose.
I've shot the DAS, and it's a nice bow, but just like any other--accuracy is not in the bow, it's in the monkey holding it. Do your part with tuning, matching the arrow to the bow, etc. and the arrow is going to go where you point it.
I'm sure it's "magic" to some--just like you can find someone who feels their favorite is "magic" to them, from the fanciest recurve to the most simple selfbow. From that perspective, I have a selfbow that is magic to me, but I'd never claim that everyone that shot it would feel the same. If that was the case, ever archer who ever tried it would be shooting one.
It's been said time and again--target shooting is seeing how far you can get from the target and still hit it. Bowhunting is about getting so close you can't miss. I know that's a lot easier said than done, but that's what it boils down to. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it and we'd get bored in no time and be hunting with cockleburrs shot from rubber bands to get the challenge back.
Looks like you have it figured out--the only way to know for sure if it's "the" bow for you or not is try it and see. Good luck!
Chad
For 45 yard shots I would say you need to practice a lot. Then practice even more. A Das alone is not going to do it. An anchor that gives you a 45 yard "point on" might be helpful though you may suffer at closer yardage.
I dont just have a single comfort zone. I have 2. From 0 to 30 I can shoot pretty good instinctive. At 45-55 I am back in a comfort zone because I can aim off my arrow point using a point of aim system. That said I would not take a shot at an animal at that distance unless everything was perfect and I had marked the yardage off before hand and practiced the shot recently and felt confident my bow and my self were in tune. There is just too much to go wrong at that distance.
I had one for a season, last year. If you shoot a lot of 3D or targets you might want one. I've been hunting over 40 yrs. shot lots of different Bows too but mainly just hunt. To me the object of that is getting as close as possible.
While I don't hunt much in the mountains any more I do walk a fair bit looking for Moose. It was too heavy for me.
Late season for Whitetails when the big guys are moving and its -20* it was pretty cold with that metal riser.
While I shot it pretty good I didn't feel it was worth the expense compared to other bows that will get the job done for less $$. Just my $.02.
See where the metal riser and adjustable arrow rests are leading you guys? 45 yard shots at game.
:(
Hmmm,, if that were the case, I have to wonder what lead Howard Hill and a lot of our pioneers, to farther that 45 yd shots on game?
I dont feel 45 yds with ANY stickbow is prudent, however.
Biggie: Took a ten pointer at 22 yards with my DAS...longest shot I have taken. Moose this year was 20, deer was 15....the squirrel I shot from the back door was 75 or so but that was shooting point blank. You are right. Guys shouldn't be shooting too far. But the most telling thing about the bows' performance is how my wife shoots hers at 45#@ 26" and gets pass thrus on bear and deer with four blade heads. Her bow shoots as hard as any number of bows I own that are 10-15#'s heavier.
"See where the metal riser and adjustable arrow rests are leading you guys? 45 yard shots at game."
Well, I actually said I can have a pie plate size group at 45 yards. Nothing about shooting game at 45 yards. I am just saying that the bow can give you accuracy at that range. That is not a bad thing if you can get close to less than 20 yards to shoot at game.
In any case, it's not the bow or the riser material - there is no substitute to tuning and practice:
(http://jhoneil.smugmug.com/photos/122188511-L-1.jpg)
60 yard group with my Don Brown Kobra Striker.
I've seen several folks post the chrono numbers on their DAS and the numbers looked average to me so I just don't buy the "hits as hard as bows 10-15# heavier". If a 45# DAS will shoot a 500gr arrow as fast as my 60# Palmer ... I'll eat it, I mean buy one.
I have had the elite, and the hunter, and have neither now. I thought the idea of adjustability and being able to use olympic limbs would be great, but as other have said there is no magic bow. It takes time and practice to become a good shooter. I will stick to my wood longbows and recurves.
I don't know if the DAS will make you shoot better, but a bow you have confidence in and really like shooting will be a step in that direction. I have convinced myself that my Bear TD w/magn. riser is the best bow I have ever shot--as a result, I always shoot it better than anything else. Try a DAS, maybe it's the one for you.
Dale: You need to shoot one to understand. When my wife got her bow I took one shot with it and went inside and ordered one for myself. A while back Doug Chase took a DAS to OZ to hunt buffalo. His bow was in the mid 60's and I believe he was shooting 800 grain arrows. Two of his kills were pass thrus on mature bulls, as I recall....something the guide had never seen with a trad bow... and his third kill had the arrow sticking out both sides but wasn't a bonafide pass thru. The chrono numbers you have seen may not have been impressive....I can only speak for my experience with the bows. I've had a bow in my hands since I was 8 (1951) and I have not shot a better performing hunting bow in all that time. Whenever we go to a tournament and other women shoot her bow they cannot believe the performance. I will also say it again, the better the limb on the bow, the better the performance. So the numbers you have seen need to be taken in context relative to the limbs used and whether the bow was set up for optimum performance for those limbs because they can be weight adjusted to the minimum weight with a resulting decrease in performance....which would be, in my experience, about what an average guy would get with an average bow....good performance but maybe not great. In other words, my 60# DAS is at its max weight. I could lower the weight to 55# but would be giving up performance. If I used limbs that maxed out at 55# they would outperform my 60# limbs adjusted for 55#.
I've had a DAS Master Hunter with Winex limbs since March. And near as I can remember looking at my log, I've put around 10k shots through it. It's a nice bow and shoots well, but it's no speed demon. Truth be known, it shoots the same speed as any of the Chek-Mate recurves I've ever owned, as well as my homemade recurves. It's a bit slower than my old Palmer double carbon and my Thunderstick MOAB longbow.
The main reason I bought it was because I could get extra limbs for it pretty much anywhere, cheap and with no wait. With replacement limbs for most custom bows running $500 or so and taking 6 months-plus to get, that advantage was huge to me.
I can't say it's extended my effective range as a bowhunter because, quite honestly, my "effective range" is already a lot further than I'd shoot animals anyway. If you really think you need a new bow to extend your range, my honest advice would be to practice more with what you currently have. That's not meant as an insult, by the way, just one of those "been there, done that" sort of things.
A bow that adds yardage? You want easy? 45 yard groups and squirrels at 75, why leave your compound?
Personally I would stick with the x-force for the longer range stuff and enjoy shooting the longbow when you can.
If you can't shoot 45 yards with your longbow I doubt if you are going to do it with any other stickbow no matter the brand or material it is made from.It is the guy pulling the string not what the string is hooked to that sets yardage. jmho
Rico: I left the compound behind for the very simple reason that the recurve, for me, is a much more efficient hunting weapon with a lot less maintenance. The bow does not add yards, it has inherent stability which makes me more accurate. I still limit my shots but I have always been pretty decent on the longer shots when field archery was in vogue. However, those long shots are not typical hunting shots and the squirrel I got, well, let's just say I missed a lot before I nailed one. In any event, not to be contrary, but Paul Schaefer was an excellent long distance shot on game. I think if a guy can do it and wants to....why not? I spent nearly 5 grand on a caribou hunt and was advised by a well known bowhunter to practice out to 50 yards. i am glad I did.
Fair enough answer,Bill I was wondering why denny was wanting to leave his compound. Just curious. Thats good shooting with or with out a compound.
I can see where you could set the recurve up just as you would a compound. If thats the case why would you have to give up any yardage.
I have hunted with a longbow the past two Septembers and am actually going back to the compound rather than leaving it, as I mentioned in the original post I hunt solo in a great spot on public land (Idaho) and have gotten into several bulls the past two seasons.(thanks Elknut) I"ve had satellites in real close but have had two mother of all herd bulls hang up at 45 yards. I live in the sticks and don't get to see other trad equipment very much and thought maybe the das setups with the sights would work for me. I just bought this compound and honestly it's so easy to shoot tight groups way out there that the practice isn't that much fun.
I know long shots at game can be a tough subject and fortunately everyone here has showed great restraint, both days after my encounters I pulled out the yellow jacket target and stuck broadheads right in the center from 45 yards, I practice at that range daily all year but I'm to old to start taking those sort of shots at game. denny
I would think that the Das or any bow with a sight and maybe a range finder 45 yds woulld be very doable on elk size game. The trajectory may not be quite as flat as your compound but thats were the practice and knowing your bow would pay off. Good Luck
I never had or shot a DAS but I have trad tech titian and being left handed I would have to agree with Jason Wesbrock about getting limbs, try getting LH limbs for a Black Widow for 200.00 or less, good luck. The ILF limb system is the main reason I like it.........stabow
I have got to agree with LBR and Biggie. I have been to lots and lots of Traditional shoots and I will tell you there is not a guy at any I have been to that can keep a pie plate group at 45 yards with any Trad bow, Das, RER, Morrison. Not one guy in 200 at the Muzzy, canguys do it, yup I can and so can others but not consistently, not every time. I have shot a Das that was tuned to perfection and also my RER Arroyo that is tuned to perfection, I could kill whatever I wanted with either bow at 20 yards, that is how it is meant to be. It may make you more effective at 45 yards but you should only have to be effective out to 35 in the first place. Shawn
Maybe they can hit the plate purty good at 45yds, is that deer over there at 45, 43, 47, BIG difference, hows the wind, shooting uphill - downhill? Yardage looks alot different in a clear field than it does in the woods.
I would focus my efforts on getting closer.
Eric