Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: horatio1226 on November 24, 2007, 08:57:00 PM
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I have benn considering hunting with my buddies. I have never hunted before. I have made 7 or 8 bows,5 of which are capable of killing a deer. I have made arrows. I can shoot good enough to hunt. I want to hunt. I love the outdoors, I love the idea of killing my own food. Earning it. Cutting down the tree, making the bow, hunting the prey in its own habitat. The stalking, the quiet of the forest, the smells. The cunning. The strategy. The hunt itself. The satisfaction of making the bow and harvesting meat for my family. The spirituality of the ordeal. What keeps me from actually hunting is the killing and dying. I can't seem to get bring myself to do it.I can intellectualize it. But emotionally I can't seem to bring myself to do it. I have been coming on to this forum for quite some time now and have seen little discussion about this. Is it that easy for you guys (and gals)? Am I just a 280 pound wimp? Its just a deer,I know. I've hit them in my truck and I'm over it in a minute or two. Is the hunt like that? Maybe I don't have the hunting gene? :(
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Watching something die is or never should be easy. Most of the time they run out of sight and you don't have to worry about watching them die. But sometimes it doesn't work out that way due to a bad shot/deflected arrow/spine shot or whatever, in which case you should leave for awhile and come back after a reasonable time to recover your animal. Sometimes as in the case of the spine shot,a follow up shot is necessary. It is all part of the game though. If you are going to shoot a sharp stick at something you have to expect that it is going to bleed and die and sometimes you may see that. Then it's your responsibility to use it wisely.
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Brian, I'd suggest that you give it a try! If at the moment of truth you can't drop the string, you'll know. Some folks can't bring thereselves to harm any other living creature and that's o.k. All "meat" was alive and had to be killed ....it's up to you to decide where you want to be in the process. I personally have no problem with folks that can not bring thereselves to kill....I have a problem when someone tells me that killing an animal is "wrong" while they are wiping the grease from their burger on their chin! As I said, give it a go, all it will cost you is the price of your license/tag and it may open up a whole new world to you! Good luck with your decision. Mike
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.....you might want to start out with small game. Rabbits, squirrels, ground hogs, what ever is avalable and legal in your area. Shooting an animal is a bunch different that shooting a target. Good luck! Mike
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I'm no expert.
My first thought is, if killing were easy everyone would do it. Hunting, on the other is something different.
I hunt so I can be there and enjoy the woods. I hunt so I can particpate in the cycle of life. I hunt to escape from the concrete jungle.
I kill because it is necessary in the food chain.
But, the killing has always made me stop reflect and give Thanks for all that came before the shot.
It's just my way.
I told my boys, if they never killed anything; that was okay. As long as they understand that someone will have to kill an animal for them to eat meat.
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Suck it up Men are Meat eaters and hunters go with that and you will see all the tree hugging will stop it is the way of the land it is humane much more than truck kills who? do you think that Beef and Pork come from someone kills them and butchers them you would be saveing those anamals some pain and help not get them killed by cars and trucks most bow kills do not feel a sharp Broadhead so try and you will see how silly you are for not trying :banghead:
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Don't compare butchering beef or pork to taking a deer with traditional equipment.
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I guess it depends on the person.
I was given my first BB gun when I was 5. Without
instruction or any examples, I proceeded to thin out the starling population in the old barn behind our house. As I grew older the animals got bigger. My father did not hunt, my mother did fish, my grandfathers hunted but I never got to go with them. Learning how to hunt was solely up to me.
To me, the thought of someday taking a deer would keep me up at night when I was a young teenager. I'd see them in fields, hear hunting stories at the local restaurant, on tv, or see them hanging from the buckpole at the local hunting shop in town which was also the local hardware store. I had always been fascinated by them.
The first time I actually got a shot at one wasn't until I was 21. It seemed almost automatic when the time came. I had an old Point Blank compound and 3 arrows. The deer was a 60# yearling feeding off from a soybean field. A friend of mine put me in a stand that he knew deer would pass by. The first shot I missed low, the deer ran off, and I couldn't beleive how much I was shaking. The same deer came back, I drew my bow and shot high! I had one arrow left. The deer being so young didn't know what to do but stand there. I remember praying, which was strange for me at the time cause I wasn't saved yet. I drew back, anchored, and sent that arrow so perfectly into the heart of that deer. It was nearly in slow motion, I remember the flight of that arrow so vividly. The deer bolted and I sat down and my whole body was buzzing with excess adrenaline. I sat there and waited until I stopped shaking. I got down, walked over to the spot, and saw a giant path of blood. My first blood trail was a easy one! I quickly found my first deer, which I could have fit in a suitcase,LOL! It didn't matter to me though at that point. The overwhelming feeling of finally accomplishing what I had dreamed about for so long came true. I was hooked, a full on bowhunting junkie! Ten years have passed since then and I thank God for that very moment.
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Don't worry about the kill you stated you wanted to hunt, then hunt the rest will fall into place as it becomes needed. Death cannot exist without life, it is part of it, perhaps the most important part. I am the only one in my family that hunts and have had little problem over coming that part of it. Killing like anything else comes with practice. A friend once told me that to be good at killing you just kill, don't try to glorify it or to lessen it, just do it. At first I will admit I thought he was a little harsh but as time went by I believe he was correct. The suggestion of starting on smaller game is also a great idea.
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Hey Gord
Are you banging your head against a brick wall for real.I'm about as much a tree hugger as you are a literary scholar!I'm well aware of where beef and pork come from. Jeesh!
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You might try to go with a friend hunting to see what its like. He might get lucky and kill something with you there. That way you could experience it without actually doing it. Ferret is right about the responsibility of our actions. Man is the only predator that can choose to kill humanely,but killing it is still,and it`s not for everyone. The experience with a friend might just waylay any fears you may have or show you once and for all it is not for you. Your inner peace is at stake,so good luck on your quest friend; Bob Pool
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I am touched each time something dies by my choice. I give thanks! I also feel some sorrow, I'd be ashamed of myself if that feeling didn't exsist with the exhileration.
If I meet the challenge on fair chase terms I'm satisfied.
God bless,Mudd
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Horatio,
Bluegill said it very well except I would have stated it this way: "Life can not exist without death." Every living creature on this earth is born, exists and dies. Everything dies for the benefit of some other organism wheather its meat for the table or consumed by microorganisms. True, some believe hunting to be a sport of blood-thirsty savages; that the only thrill is that of the next kill. For those people I pray.
One not look any farther than nature itself as an example. Weigh it in your own mind as to which you think more savage - a virus infected through the bite of a midge that leads to a slow, agonizing death via starvation, the attack of the coyote pack that quite literally tear their prey appart and sometimes begin the consumption even before death comes or the swift arrow with a sharp broadhead sent true to its mark that causes death by hemmorhage within seconds.
Just some food for thought,
Stacker
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I found this quote by
Fred Bear
I have always tempered my killing with respect for the game pursued. I see the animal not only as a target but as a living creature with more freedom than I will ever have. I take that life if I can, with regret as well as joy, and with the sure knowledge that nature's way of fang and claw or exposure and starvation are far more crueler than I bestow.
Fred Bear
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Every thing dies sooner or later.
The animals I kill are part of the natural cycle,and so am I.
It's just the way it is and we don't choose our places in this thing.
I regularly kill sheep by walking into a catching pen with a knife in my hand,taking them by the head,fliping them over an pulling their head around my leg exposing their throut.
I them cut their throut and break their neck at the same time.
As I do this,I look into their eyes,but I never see anything looking back at me.
Shooting animal is a lot easier than that,I don't even get my hands dirty until after their dead.
It's just the way it is,,,there not human,their food an they don't look back with any understanding what so ever.
Bambi was a movie.
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Hunting and killing (never havest)makes you responsible for the death that is needed for you to live. A wild animal walks in the shadow of death daily and as hunters we are just another part of how that death will happen. Car or an arrow, it's still dead. I'm not much into having dead things hanging on my walls looking back at me years after I killed an animals. Trophies prove nothing of skill. Meat in the freeze from a single well placed arrow is why most Trad guys do it. If I had to choose between getting hit by a car and an arrow zipping through both lungs, give me the arrow.
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Brian, don't force anything. Just continue to go with your feelings. You'll never get the answer you're looking for here...it is just too personal and needs to be answered from within. Take your bow into the woods, hunt, relax, and just enjoy the whole experience...either way it goes, you've had a nice day in the woods.
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Well said Mudd.
Buy a license and go afield with a good friend that has experience and understands how you feel and you trust. Go out in the woods with your friend learning to scout and read sign. Help place stands and ask why they are going there. Make sure you are called to help recover game in the field and take part in the trail-up AND DRAG OUT. Stay in camp even if not hunting and enjoy that as well. These things are part of hunting.
If you get a shot oportunity and find thast you cannot loose the string, well there is no shame in that. Enjoy being near game. It is magic! If you do fill your tag and feel remorse, or maybe you you feel excitement but cry anyway, there is no shame there either. More than one person on this site has done so for one reason or another including this 35 year old.
Whatever you do continue making your equipment and enjoy shooting. I have shared camp with several nonhunters and they had a great time. But if you are arround the hunting environment for very long it will seep deep into your veins and one day that tug you feel now may be too much to resist. I have enjoyed my ride and I know you can too.
Brant
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My wife hunted with me for 17 years. I told her from the start, pulling the trigger was optional when she was hunting. She hunted hard and never exercised her option even though she had several opportunities. Winter allergies ended her hunting but she still talks about the deer she saw and decided to let walk.
Go hunting, learn the ways of the woods and the game you are seeking. It is a very rich experience and you can choose to drop the string or just count coup. Doesn't matter which you choose, it is all optional.
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There is a time with every kill that I reflect on what it means to hunt. I pray for quick clean kills, and do my best to follow through on the ones that arent. I hunt to be outside, to enjoy nature. If I get an animal too, it is a bonus.
If you want to hunt, hunt. You dont need to take the shot at the moment of truth. Its all a personal choice my friend. If you want to get some pointers or some help....just ask.
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No one taught me to hunt. My step dad hunted, but did so with a few guys in a different state. For a long time I would NOT HAVE EVEN CONSIDERED killing an animal. I wanted to be a conservation officer to protect the animals. It was not part of how our family operated. Even when we fished, it was catch and release.
As a kid and teeneager, my brother and I would chase deer when we saw them in the woods. It was just for fun, no hunting implements. Sometimes, we would go to great lengths to outsmart them and push them to each other(we even crawled through the weeds on hands and knees). We liked seeing wildlife! We would sneak as close as possible and try not to get caught. It was exciting to be within a few feet of a deer or bird without being discovered. I didn't realize it at the time, but we were acting EXACTLY like predators.
I never killed anything until I was about 23 and that was out of necessity.
We were coming home from fishing and hit a yearling crossing the road late at night. We looked back and it was laying in the middle of the road. My step dad and I went back to get it off the highway so no one else would hit it and have an accident. As we were pulling the deer off the road, it woke up. The blow from the boat trailer had ripped off one leg entirely and apparently knocked it unconscious for a short time.
Now we had a dilemma. The deer was in shock and pain. It was bleating horribly for it's mother to help it. It was breaking my heart as a young man. There was only one option; put the deer out of its misery as quickly as possible. Otherwise, it was going to die a VERY long and painful death. The only thing we had with us were some basic tools. We knocked the deer unconscious again and cut its throat. It was as brutal a scene as I had witnessed in my life.
It was just that though, a part of life. We had not chosen it. It was inevitable and as decent human beings we had to do the right thing; kill that deer.
I thought about that night often for the next several months. It was at that point that I saw how basic life is; all animals live and die. I realized that even the food on my table at home had once lived just like this deer.
We had the deer processed and ate it. To that point I had never thought about it in those terms. I had helped kill the food sitting on our table and it changed something in me.
I began to feel like I needed to be part of the animal's life cycle. I believed, and still do, that I was showing the animal much more respect by killing it quickly with my own hands and eating it.
Today, I do not revel in killing an animal, but I do enjoy everything about hunting. I like being with other hunters, being outside, seeing all kinds of wildlife and just the overall experience. I have completed the cycle I started as a child when my brother and I would stalk the deer just for fun. Now there is a different ending. When I do kill an animal, it is with total respect for the fact that I have just killed a beautiful creature God created. I have left my mark in nature and I hope I did so respectfully. There is definitely some sorrow, but also a deep seeded need that has been forfilled for me. I say a prayer for the deer and then go about the buisness of field dressing and the other necessary tasks.
So I guess, in all. Killing is not something I take lightly. It does come automatically at this point because I understand its necessity. I will kill a deer for food. I would also mount a deer with a great set of antlers or tan out it's hide for later use. If I keep something from the animal, it helps me remember that time and place. I think it is a sign of respect.
I hope those ramblings make some sense,
-Charlie
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Excellent thoughts and observations by many here, so I will only add a couple of additional sentiments.
For most truly ethical hunters, I believe that killing animals creates a unique emotional paradox. First, I believe that most of us are conservationists at heart and that we endeavor to protect and preserve our wildlife resources. In other words, we are strongly committed in general to their well-being. At the same time, we go afield during the hunting season with the intent to kill if given the opportunity. Further, when we go afield, we pray that should we inflict death upon our quarry, that the death be quick and humane...something that death in nature does not provide.
While on the surface, the idea of protecting wildlife and killing wildlife may seem to be mutually exclusive notions, I have come to appreciate that they are not and that in fact, they co-exist as essential parts of the same necessary cycle.
Understanding this, has made me a more methodical and yes, perhaps introspective hunter. I practice almost daily, select my shots carefully, follow-up on every arrow loosed, and tenaciously track every animal hit. When I finally walk up to a creature whose death I have inflicted, I then experience that strange mix of sorrow and jubilation that are hard to describe. But what pulls it all together for me and in the end, why I keep hunting and yes, killing the very animals I admire, is the overwhelming sense of gratitude that quickly floods in to take the place of the other emotions. As long as I am grateful, I will hunt.
Claudia
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"Theres More To Hunting Than Just Hunting!"What I mean Brian is every part of how we prepare, anticipate, dream both day and night are a part of it.And when we share this with like minded individuals it enhances our experiience.I know two people who hunted for many years and never killed anything, not even a shot.Everyone else was at least seeing game so I have a feeling that they chose not to kill.The act of killing by itself is a big, big thing.Aside from just hunting killing is a large part of being human, from bacteria as we breathe, grass we mow, trees we cut and so on and so on were constantly killing.But now killing mammals, I understand that thats different but once you do it youll see how natural it feels.And if you dont feel its natuaral for you at least youll know.Good luck Brian.
Izzy
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We all know there is no life without death.
No human, animal, or plant can be excluded from this fact.
Humans are probably the wrost parasites to ever
walk the face of this earth. We take more than we need, and literaly crap where we eat so to speak.
You are not a 280lb wimp. You are a human being.
Those feelings of possible regret for taking a life are the only thing that seperates the human species from the rest of the animals that man has dominion over.
I believe the only way to be comfortable in your
own skin is to come to terms with the fact that for you to live, you must have compassion for the lives ended by your existence. The only way to truely realize how connected you are with life, and death is through hunting.
Many people believe its wrong for me to shoot a deer, and that they are better than me because they don`t. And they sit there and say that while their gut is full of beef, that was delivered by a truck that hit a deer while on its way to deliver the meat to a store, for him to buy, so his hands don`t get bloody, and he can keep on thinking he is above this life and death thing! WHEW!
Your eyes set forward on your face. You have the gene.
If you hunt, you WILL sleep better. If you kill something, and make good use of its flesh, you WILL sleep better yet.
You have my respect, either way!
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Here are some quotes to "ponder" from Spanish Philosopher Jose'Ortega y Gasset from his book "Meditations on Hunting". A bit deep at times but the message is there.
" All this leads up to that final scene of the hunt in which the fine skin of the animal appears stained with blood, and that body, once pure agility, lies transformed into the absolute paralysis that is death. Was it all only for this we ask ourselves. More than once, the sportsman, within shooting range of a splendid animal, hesitates in pulling the trigger. The idea that such a slender life is going to be annulled surprises him for an instant. Every good hunter is uneasy in the depths of his conscience when faced with the death he is about to inflict on the enchanting animal. He does not have the final and firm conviction that his conduct is correct. But neither, it should be understood, is he certain of the opposite"
" To the sportsman the death of the game is not what interests him; that is not his purpose. What interests him is everything that he had to do to achieve that death-that is, the hunt.
Therefore what was before only a means to an end is now an end in itself. Death is essential because with out it there is no authentic hunting: the killing of the animal is the natural end of the hunt and that goal of hunting itself, not of the hunter. The hunter seeks this death because it is no less than the sign of reality for the whole hunting process. To sum up, one does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted."
good luck with your descision.
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Brian,
The other day I had to drawdown on a six point buck because that was the rules eight points or more.(Private land) Shortly after that I had a squirrel that was annoying me, he was a 15 yd. shot I drew my bow string, and the first thought that came to my head " are you going to eat that squirrel" No, I drew down, and one minute after I did, he went to a different area.
God made all the animals, and he said for us to have dominion over them, now that doesn't mean waste, feeding yourself and others with what you harvest is important. To hang it on the wall, may be important to others, but they may have lost the feelings that you have. You're nothing more than a good conscious hunter in the woods. If you choose to hunt.
I also shot a button buck onetime, 30 years ago, with a 30 30, it was so far away the first shot wasn't even heard by the buck, it landed between its feet. My friend was with me Jim, he said raise it 8 in., I did, and the button buck dropped right there, I thought he was dead on the spot, so I left the gun back at the truck, it was a spinal shot, I will never forget having to cut that bucks throat.
I also had another spinal shot at a water hole with a bow, I had to use another arrow.
You will have choices, and those choices will turn into your memories. And those memories will make up your character has a hunter.
Carl
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i belive if you go out and work and work hard for a chance at a animal, you more than likely will not pass on it, not saying for shure. Just think about that chance that you will cripple that animal and have to finish it up close and personal. I dont think that small game would be the best way to go especaily rabbits they make some awful sad noises when injured. nothing is more desturbing than a bunny with a broken leg or a hole in its guts screaming in terror. i also think that maybe it would be a good idea to do your first with a rifle, ooooh sorry, it is alot less personal at longer ranges. you wont regret it at the dinner table. gord, keep that kind of atitude to yourself.
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I would like to thank everyone for their thoughtful responses. I am impressed with the time that you all took to answer my post. I am not surprised, but impressed. The respect and compassion that you hunt with is admirable. I would be proud to be a part of this group and would work hard to remain worthy of it. I am grateful for all of your responses,even gordon's.Please feel free to continue adding as they are the best reading on the net. I figure that I have a year to make my new bow. My hunting bow. Not sure if I'll use it, but I'm going to make it just in case. Boo backed osage I believe. Something worthy of a hunt. Something full of spirit. Thanks again. Brian :archer:
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So we are making more bows??? :D . You can hunt with me anytime bud...and if and when a shot presents, its your call. Thats another beautiful thing about this..its all on you.
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Brian, you have been to my house. you have seen some of the deer I have killed, I always feel remorse as I just took somethings life. The bigger or more intelligent the critter the more remorse I feel. I was raised to hunt and taught that it is not a bad thing to kill as long as you respect what you are hunting! Start out with samaller things like squirrels and rabbits and work your way up. Come to my bunny hunt, i am sure we can change your mind!! Shawn
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I will also add do not go into the woods with a bow and arrow unless you intend to kill what you are hunting. It may seem harsh but if you do not have that intent bring a camera. I enjoy nature as much as the next guy, but I am out there to kill something not to just look and and listen. Shawn
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Brian,
Sorry to chime in so late in the thread. The "death is nessasary for life" subject has thoroughly covered, but as I understand your question, you already have a good grip on that aspect of hunting. What you are struggling with is- Can you personally bring yourself to do it, Right?
I'd like address a couple of aspects of hunting and killing that have not been talked about much.
The first is that the vast majority of hunter are animal lovers. Many of us have pets. We love them dearly and they are considered part of the familly. They are like our children.
We also love the animals that we hunt. We have immense respect for them and delight in just seeing deer, turkys, rabbits, squirrels, bears, elk, on and on. Our interset lies not so much in killing them as it does in observing them and learning about them. What are they doing? Why are they doing it? Aren't they beautifull! Aren't they awesome! You see, being a hunter and being an animal lover are not mutually exclusive lifestyles or philosophies. This is a concept that many non-hunters have difficulty comprehending.
Second, I'll ask you the same question that I ask everyone who says "I could never kill a deer". What makes you think that the deer would allow you to kill him/her? It is not easy! Hunting is not unlike a game of chess in which the hunter is sorely out matched. It is a game of wits and skill. Our bumbling human intrusion into the home space of our quarry never goes un-noticed by the animals we hunt. Make no mistake, if you think that shooting a living animal is emotionally difficult, you should see how hard it is to get a good clean shot at one on his home turf!
It is this lopsided advantage that the animal has that keeps us going back to try again. Most hunts do not result in a kill. If it was that easy we would quickly loose interest. This is why a kill is often celebrated to some extent- because it is a relatively rare event.
You've heard the old saying- "It's not the kill, it's the thrill of the chase". Well, it is absolutely true!
BFinegans post from Jose'Ortega y Gasset bears repeating- "One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have truely hunted."
Just a few ideas to think about.
-Sharps
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Thanks Sharps
A post like that could never be late. Only right on time. Brian
I would never eat my German Shepherd :goldtooth:
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Its a question many of my friends have asked me...how can i kill an animal i take so much joy in seeing and being around.
Like many have said already death is a part of nature, and like Ferret said usually it happens out of your view, but if you play the game long enough it something will go wrong it will happen in front of you and you will have to react quickly. But that is why we put the hours weeks and months of practice in...as an ethical hunter we owe it to the animal to know we can handle the moment of truth...It is something you will find the answer to when put in the situation. You will know at that very moment if you can let the arrow fly or not..and remember regardless of what answer your heart gives take joy in the journey...there arent many like being in the deer woods.
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This is some pics from a blind a friend and I was hunting..I was videoing for him.
He could have easily take the deer, but he chose not to. We didn't kill anything but we enjoyed the experience..
Hope its ok to post these pics..
Just showing what your missing out on.. Its not just the kill.. (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/kywarrior/P1040608.jpg) (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/kywarrior/P1040609.jpg) (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/kywarrior/deer.jpg) (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/kywarrior/Beddeddeer.jpg)
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Brian, dont knock it til you try it.Shephard makes for some good eating and a heck of a bow backing.Only joking pal but seriously if you would like to borrow that book by Jose' "Meditations On Hunting", let me know.Its a bit heady but if your questioning you desire to kill this might help either way.I forget the scouts founders name but I know your big into the scouts and I have an awesome article about him killing boar,tiger and wolf in India with spears from horseback.Ill send you a copy of that as well if your interested.
Izzy
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Fantastic pics Weekend Warrior!