In the never-ending quest for perfection, I started shooting three under about a year ago. While shooting the other night at my indoor target, decided to try moving my fingers below the arrow about three quarters of an inch in order to bring the arrow more in line with my eyes while at the same time maintaining my usual anchor point. Didn't know at the time that I was using the fixed crawl method of aiming. Love it and my accuracy has improved significantly. I realize it's only seven yards but have a feeling it will transfer to longer distances once I'm able to get outside and fling a few.
Just wondering how many of you shoot the same way. Or do you move back and forth depending on whether you're hunting or target shooting? I understand it's banned for 3D competition.
I think "back in the day" we used to call that "walking the string" I believe they actually counted the servings for different distances.My anchor has never been that consistent for me to try that kind of stuff..
In other words, I've regressed? :biglaugh:
Find a spot on the string that works at 15 yards and tie in a nock point. Use it all the time aim a little low at 10 and high at 20. You have a fixed craw. Deadly hunting method that I adopted last year. I'm not changing anytime soon.
For me I have my fixed craw at 20 yards but it can be whatever you want based on what you feel the majority of your shots will be. Plenty info out there on the method if you do a google search.
By the way String walking is when you move your fingers on the string depending on the distance.
Most of the trad contingent on the local circuit shoots "fun rounds" anyway. I always tell them at registration that I'm not touching the nock if it matters, and most of the times I'm told they don't care. I'm sure they probably do it in part to get more revenue from competition fees. At bigger shoots it would probably still be an issue.
I understand the increased noise issue when going from split to three under and then fixed crawl. To me, the trade off is worth it if my accuracy increases substantially. Most of my hunting shots are 20 yds. or less. Consequently, I will pay much more attention to the state of my quarry, namely whitetails, and opt for shots where they are basically calm, which is what we should be doing anyway. We all know how a deer can react to a shot when on high alert, be it loosed split, three under or fixed crawl. Many animals have been missed or wounded either way when in that mode. Bottom line - accuracy trumps noise. Just my opinion.
Shot that way for years. I set my point on for 15 yrds. Takes a little more tuning but works great.
Got to shoot outdoors this morning, and you're right Fritz. However, retuning will be some of the fun of the change. A clean release is definitely number one as this method highlights any problems with form. Or so it seems to me.
All my bows shoot quieter with 4 small silencers instead of 2 larger. I always bareshaft all my bows and shoot four 4" feathers 90x90.
When u get it dialed in its deadly.
The fixed crawl is the deadliest method for consistently taking game next to a sight.
Rusty has done it for years and I can't remember the last whitetail he missed.
Set it for your shot and put the arrow tip where you want to hit.
Mike
Fixed crawl works as described. After a bit I did not have to think about distance, you get a feel for it. Some style bows are quieter than others. I have a set of dryad acs longbow limbs on a das riser and 2 hush puppies, 20yd crawl and a nice soft thump on release, my recurves tend to be louder.
I use it. Here is a link to help you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LthFu6fxjeM
The fixed crawl is very deadly and many archers would improve their shooting by using it.
When shooting a crawl, do you need to keep the bow vertical or is some cant OK?
I cant mine.
You can cant it or shoot vertical. I do both. Great I love my fixed crawl.
I'm wondering why, if it's such a good way to shoot, aren't more using the technique? Only thing I can think of is it's traditional archery heresy. A good friend of mine, whom I will only identify by the handle by which he posts here (a type of bow building material grown in China and the preferred food of the giant panda) has shunned me when I posted this topic. Only kidding but his reaction was instantaneous. His best quote is "It just aint right!" He almost disowned me when I announced I was going three under. I still like him though. :biglaugh:
Fritz,check your e-mail.Thanks
David I have killed deer with instinctive, gap, and any other method u can think off. I have also had trouble with consistantcy with all these. When i went to fixed crawl I have none of these problems. What "aint right" is missing and wounding deer. It works very well for me and I really couldn't care less if some think it's not traditional or not. To each his on.
Answered you Steve.
QuoteOriginally posted by Fritz:
David I have killed deer with instinctive, gap, and any other method u can think off. I have also had trouble with consistantcy with all these. When i went to fixed crawl I have none of these problems. What "aint right" is missing and wounding deer. It works very well for me and I really couldn't care less if some think it's not traditional or not. To each his on.
This!!!!!
The only downside I see, at least for competitive 3D shooters, is that a lot of clubs disallow string walking. This makes no sense to me since it is merely a situation of using your brain to better control your equipment. As for being traditional or not, it has been around for a very long time, making it a vintage technique. "Vintage" can, without too much of a stretch, be translated to "traditional", at least in my opinion. However, for someone who only hunts, it would be a non-issue. I tinkered with it a couple of times, but it just didn't work for me.
I agree T12. I'll be giving it an honest effort and if it isn't for me then I'll go back to just three under. I too couldn't care less what other consider traditional or not. If it improves one's accuracy, then it should be used. I can see where I'm going to have to get some new arrows, though, as one of the bows I've been experimenting with and the arrows I've been shooting with requires a crawl point way too far down the serving to give me a point on at 20 yd. But isn't learning and trying new things what trad archery is all about? I have a feeling this is going to be fun.
And I agree with you Sam. You're still drawing the bow with fingers and not utilizing a sight or release aid. Why should the way you aim make any difference.
I resisted trying this for a long time, because I really love my nose anchor, and couldn't figure out how to use it with the fixed crawl. Then I realized two things that made me decide to try it: first, I could just anchor further up my nose with the feather while using the same anchor for my thumb; second, I could just put a second nock right above my regular upper nock, so I would end up with two double nocks using only three tied on nocks. I didn't know if either of these things would actually work, but the simplicity was intriguing enough to make me at least try it. So today I tied on another nock and experimented with a higher nose anchor that I could reliably draw to.
The results exceeded my expectations. I ended up with a point on of about 22 yards, compared with my normal 45 yard point on. As soon as I determined this, my accuracy on 15-25 yard shots increased significantly. I am definitely interested in continuing to experiment with this. I will use my normal nocking point and anchor for 35-50 yard shots, and the fixed crawl for 15-25 yard shots. I have to decide what to do about 30 yard shots, which are sort of on the edge either way.
Why don't more people use this? Aside from the rules in certain tournaments, I suspect the main reason is the added complexity. Now I have to move two things: my nock point and my nose anchor, when I want to use the fixed crawl. I remember when I first switched to 3 under, and shot over the first deer I shot at after switching. Afterwards, I realized that in the excitement I must have used a split grip, since that was what I was used to. In experimenting with this, I found myself many times nocking in my regular spot and having to correct myself, even though I was in my own backyard and under no pressure. If I find myself doing this when the chips are down, I will probably have to rethink this.
I switched to fix crawl about a year ago and it has really helped my hunting accuracy. I do shoot really heavy arrows and I did not notice my bow getting any louder. It also makes those close in shots much easier for me as I can easily see the arrow in my peripheral vision.
It may not be for everyone but this has helped my accuracy more than any one thing. I went from trying to hit the kill zone, to being able to hit a specific part of the kill zone.
My setup is a 55@28 MOAB, with 680 grain axis trads. I shoot with a slight cant and if you had to pin me down I would say I shoot gap, but at this point my gaps are pretty instinctive if that makes sense.
If you are not happy with your hunting accuracy I would say give it a whirl, just use some tape for a lower nock point and don't worry about retuning or anything, just play with it and see what you think. If you like it you can put in a more permanent nock, and if you don't like it, just take the tape off.
Are you guys still shooting with both eyes open or closing one eye when doing this?
Hi Jon, I never close one of my eyes when shooting trad bows. However, I have had some problems adjusting to the fixed crawl. When I am "on" I have put 4 arrows in the target at 20 yards almost touching each other. I could never do that with my regular anchor, where the arrow point would be about 2' below the point I want to hit. However, some other times, I might shoot a wider group than I usually shoot with my regular anchor. I hesitate to mention anything at this point, since I am still experimenting with this and it might be just a matter of becoming more used to it. However, if anyone else has had a similar experience and solved it, I would be interested in knowing what you did.
I have a theory.
When you're "point on" I think it's easy to place too much emphasis on aiming and the rest of the shot suffers.
In truth, it's something I struggle with whether I use a crawl or not. Too little attention to aiming and you miss because you weren't pointing the arrow at the target. Too much and the rest of the shot stinks and the arrow doesn't go where it's pointed. LOL
I think that's a very good point, mgf. There's a strangeness about being nearly point on at 20 yards, that I'm not used to yet, that may cause me to become too focused on aiming at times. In fact, there have been times that I have stacked arrows in a very tight group 4" to the left of the spot I want to hit, probably because I'm aiming very well but lost awareness of something in my form or alignment.
Another possibility is that because of being near point on at 20 yards, I may at times lose my focus on the spot I want to hit and instead my focus drifts to the arrow point. This causes a more general spreading of the arrows, as opposed to just moving the group away from the spot I want to hit. I have already fought this battle at my regular point on, 45 yards, but I may have to fight it again at 20.
At this point the next guy's guess is as good as mine.
You have to do a bunch of things well to sink them in the bull over and over.
Hi Dave,
I've been shooting a fixed crawl now for awhile. I have experienced the same variances of accuracy as you have. For me, it's a concentration or fatigue issue. It sounds like that may be your problem too. Not so much fatigue, but concentration. The point you made about your focus drifting from aiming where you want to hit to focusing on the arrow tip is a good example of this. Rod Jenkins says humans can only focus 100% of their attention and concentration for a few seconds (paraphrased) before our focus and thoughts drift to other thoughts/stimuli. I have found that since I now, with the fixed crawl, place the tip of the arrow on the spot at 20 yards, or a six o'clock hold in my case, that I sometimes try to hold the tip too precisely. This slows down my release, causes muscle fatigue and diminishes my concentration. If you're experiencing the same thing as me, one or more of these may be the cause.
Hi Dennis,
I think you're right about concentration. Both my concentration and awareness are still a little off. When I first started using the fixed crawl, it was hard to make myself put the point where I needed to put it at 20 yards, which is at six o'clock like you do. My whole body was objecting to putting it there, after so many years of holding much lower for a 20 yard shot. I seem to have gotten beyond that now. The thing that keeps me from going back is that when everything comes together, my 20-30 yard accuracy is so much better than it was before. I don't have the concentration problems you mention when I'm shooting my other point on of 45 yards, so I just have to bring those same good habits to my 25 yard fixed crawl point on.
I know what you're saying. It took me awhile to "hold-on" at 20 yards. I felt like I was aiming too high. With time and practice, I think this system will work great for me. Good luck and good shooting!
Lol, we can all "come out of the closet" now! I spent years evolving (without giving a crap what anybody called it) to overcome a 2 feet gap by going to 3U, changing anchors, heavier/longer arrows, etc. only to find out a true "point on" was distracting for me and brought on some nasty TP-like bad habits. I think this was basically that psychological "technoweenie" stuff dealing with the mind's inability to focus on two objects at once, i.e when you shoot a handgun you either focus on the sights and let the spot "float" or focus on the spot and let the sights "float". I backtracked to get a 6 o'clock hold about 6" low @20 yds. When I went to a crawl I'm back to level with the spot at 25 yds (my original objective), but with my slight cant the arrow is more out in the periphery and I'm holding at 3 o'clock (about 2" right of the spot)... and I'm happy there! No stress in either of those.
I shoot a dedicated string walking method on my competition rig shooting indoor FITA Spot Leagues or IBO competitions. I'm always cutting the intended spot for my arrow with the top tangent point of my arrow.
For my hunting rigs, I'm shooting a 25 yard fixed crawl. I use a strip of white electrical tape at the end of my arrow shaft on my practice arrows and my hunting arrows. All my gaps are referencing the white band rather than the "tip" because variations in points and broadheads can affect impact points. So I try to keep my aiming reference location on my arrows the same for all my hunting and practice arrows.
For shot sequence, I draw with both eyes open with a slight conscious effort on having the white band "close" to the intended hold point. Once at anchor, I settle into my "check" part of the sequence to ensure that my alignment, bow hand placement, etc etc feels like it should. (continuing to pull and have my back engaged throughout this process)
Once I decide to that I am going to shoot the shot, I start to close my left eye and align my tip to its intended hold location while simultaneously commencing the expansion phase. You'd be surprised at how often my tip is at the correct location to start with. But if minor adjustments are needed, I make them as I am expanding and the shot goes off.
If at any time after the check sequence and commencing the expansion phase, I realize that my tip is not going to get on target before the expansion causes the shot to fire, I let down. This is a timing and rhythm thing I am working on right now.
I don't start to "aim" my white band until I've consciously committed to shooting the shot after the check phase. This helps with anxiety at full draw.
If the dashed lines below represent the amount of time spent in a phase it would look something like this:
Draw ----
Anchor and check phase ------------
Commit / expand / close eye / aim / shoot --
I've found that it is a super comfortable and enjoyable shot sequence. The anxiety at anchor has went away, and I'm not committed to shooting the shot until everything passes the sniff test.
I love the fixed crawl for hunting. This is my second year shooting this way after countless years of messing with 3 under gap or instinctive shooting.
My effective range has increased
My misses have drastically decreased
My harvests have increased. (3 deer last year - 4 deer this year)
Love it.
Matt good post and explanation. Fixed Crawl should be another shooting method that needs more exposure in the Trad camp.
I think more will be using this style in the future.
Matt,
Would you mind posting a picture of the white band on your arrows? Great stuff!
Longbow: it's just a wrap of electrical tape at the end of the arrow overlapping the insert. It ensures consistency between tips & broadheads:
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w367/mzirnsak1/0ED86207-5589-4FEA-A952-6E150872838F_zpseyrtlemr.jpg) (http://s1072.photobucket.com/user/mzirnsak1/media/0ED86207-5589-4FEA-A952-6E150872838F_zpseyrtlemr.jpg.html)
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w367/mzirnsak1/DE988E07-8060-4F21-8FD9-A52A14466278_zpszyooeaj0.jpg) (http://s1072.photobucket.com/user/mzirnsak1/media/DE988E07-8060-4F21-8FD9-A52A14466278_zpszyooeaj0.jpg.html)
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w367/mzirnsak1/B6F75196-3BD1-4A2D-B758-3FD1DF2A221C_zps6wbqegdu.jpg) (http://s1072.photobucket.com/user/mzirnsak1/media/B6F75196-3BD1-4A2D-B758-3FD1DF2A221C_zps6wbqegdu.jpg.html)
Longbow, also it has the added bonus of low light shooting. I easily gain 5 to 10 minutes of shooting light with the white band ;)
Matt,
I really like that idea! Thanks for sharing it. I will probable give that a try.
If you prefer to tune your arrows to a 3 or 6 o'clock hold like I mentioned, you can orient a blade vertical or horizontal to use just like a front sight at your PO range.
The white tape idea is awesome !
I can't take credit for it, it is on MBB Volume 2 or 3.
Denny Sturgis Gap Shooting trick for hunting.
I love it.
I would like to try this as a split finger shooter but have a couple questions.
If I shoot this 3 under what finger do I anchor with?
About How far down the string does your "crawl" nock end up being on 50# @28" and around a 500gr. arrow for 20yrds.? Just an approx. want to know about where to start.
I shoot three under and I anchor with my middle finger at the corner of my mouth. A good starting point to tie your nocking point is 1/2"-3/4" below the arrow nock. You can adjust from there.
TC, one of the main points of the fixed crawl is to use the same anchor you normally use, so you don't have to re-think too many things in a hunting situation: just move your grip on the string down under the fixed crawl nock and draw to your regular anchor. As a split finger shooter, I guess you would also have to get used to drawing the bow without the feeling of the arrow nock between your fingers. There are a few other differences anyone has to get used to, such as having a different sight picture, etc., that are mainly psychological. Before you go to the trouble of tying on a new nock, I would just play with it for a while, and grip a little below your regular nock, as Dennis says, and notice where the arrow hits when you place the arrow point on the spot. You should pretty quickly get an idea of about where your fixed crawl nock should be to get the point on distance that you want, and can fine tune it after you tie on an adjustable nock.
You will essentially be switching from split to 3 under when you use the fixed crawl, and then switching back again when you use your regular nock. If you can adjust to that, fine; if not, you could try moving your anchor rather than your nock point. You would still be changing just one thing, and would be shooting split for both aiming points. For example, if you now use your middle finger in the corner of your mouth, you could try using your ring finger, or just getting some new anchor altogether higher on your face. When I tried this, I developed a pretty good anchor using my first two fingers on the top and bottom of the bone under my eye socket. Another advantage of this is that it would still be legal in some tournaments that forbid string walking.
I have been doing quite a bit of experimenting with both the fixed crawl and using a different anchor lately, and am actually leaning in the direction of changing my anchor point rather than using the fixed crawl, since it would be legal in the tournaments I shoot. Both seem to require about the same amount of psychological adjustments to get used to.
Thanks McDave and others, I tried the fixed crawl and could make it work but in the end I decided it wasn't for me and decided to stick with the split and my traditional form. It's good to experiment from time to time and try new things and I may revisit this again someday as I recently discovered by making a hybrid anchor of my compound anchor and my Trad setup I have found something that is really working for me as of late.
Dan