Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: Red Tailed Hawk on January 19, 2011, 09:00:00 PM
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Well ive been having a bad case of snap shooting lately, as soon as i get that arrow back it's on the way out. Ive tried different things to help and the only thing that has been working is if i pretend that I am aiming at something that i would never intentionally want to shoot. When I do this I am able to come to full draw and hold back and then give myself the green light to shoot. Anybody else have snap shooting issues and what has worked for you??
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I aimed at anything that was off limits.........wife's car door, windows, brick walls.............stuff like that. Works pretty good for a while but not a 'cure'. I have to do it regularly to keep the Monster at bay. Pretty much anyone you care to mention that has an intense involvement with archery or making bows and arrows etc has had it or has it.
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My experience is the same as Bjorn's. Unattended, my hold time diminishes until there is none at all. Finally, I have to say, "enough is enough" and force myself to hold to a slow count of 3 (two full seconds since the "1" count happens as soon as I reach full draw). The way I can accomplish this is to make it the most important thing I do during the shot sequence. In other words, the shot doesn't go off until the "3" count, whether I'm aiming at the sky or my foot. Whether I hit anything I'm shooting at is inconsequential. Inevitably, when I do this, my shooting improves, even though my nerves are telling me otherwise.
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Sound like you don't have a snapshooting problem, but rather target panic . I should know. :^(
My advice would be to get a light bow, and a copy of Masters of the Barebow III. Follow Rod Jenkins shot sequence segment to the letter.
It's simply going to take time with bale and bridge work. A clicker may help you function in the short term.
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I got into that rut also. I always will be a quick shooter. It's my natural tempo, I shoot my pistols quick and I am the same way in golf. I walk up look at the green look at the yardage pull the club and hit. I have also done the count thing and then release. I can stand aiming at the closet mirror at full draw for 10-15 seconds no problem. Go out back aim at my yellow jacket or 3-D buck and the urge to release once I am at full draw is very difficult to resist. I have been shooting only about 20-30 arrows on odd days and holding at least 2-3 seconds. Trust me for me that is forever. The other days if I start to get sloppy I stop for the day. I was shooting well over 100 arrows a day and now I trying to shoot less but with more focus. I think we all fight this from time to time.
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I agree with some earlier posts. Make sure you count to 3 and then release. Good luck!
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When that monster rears its head I use this method to stop. I aim at a tree that is about 6' to the right of my target,slowly swing to the target and pick my spot and release. I do this from about 10-15 yards and it worked. It accomplishes several things, makes you slow down, makes you twist to your left like you are following an animal, makes you concentration level work hard, increases you focus, plus other things I can't think of. I include this in my shooting evry day and it has helped me greatly.
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try getting a deeper hook on the string i found my self shooting too quick and with the deeper hook it stopped me from doing so
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Yep....that's target panic....not snap shooting.
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Yeppers, agree , not snap shooting, its the ugly, beast, called TARGET PANIC. I know the beast well, even Rod Jenkins said, sometimes it raises its ugly head, even on him. Kinda like a cancer, no cure, but you can learn to overcome the beast. I find that counting on me, only makes it worse, 123 shoot!!!! I am tryin now to draw, anchor, then really pull through the shot. I have a stan release, no trigger only back pressure makes it go off. I am usin it now on my longbow, the release really tells if you are pullin backpressure. The other thing is called a Form Master, it will tell you as well if you are pullin back pressure. Hope this helps, if you find a better pill to take to cure Target Panic , plz let me know!!!!!!!!
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Thanks for the advice, I guess it is target panic(never thought it was before). I will try and work on it, might be hard because it is all mental. Thanks for the advice and tips.
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Try shooting eyes closed in to a bag that is chest height at about 5ft out (or just beyond the length of the arrow). Eyes closed concentrating soley on form, and sequence (including hold).
I will go back to that often for reasons other than panic, but I have heard it works for target panic also.
If you can bear it do it enough times to rebuild the habit of holding (sometimes hundreds of times is required).
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I struggled a year and a half ago. To help I started purposely holding on draw for longer than normal by aiming at things I had no intention of loosing an arrow on. Then I started having elbow problems. Has has been said, decreasing frequency of shooting sessions and number of arrows shot helped most. Part of the recovery then came from my muscles and tendons regaining their strength. Decreasing in bow weight obviously helped too.
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Close blank bale shooting will help. just focus on your shot. the best thing that helped me was masters of the bare bow three.
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I have had TP for many years. I had tried everything. At times it was so bad I could not even get 3/4 draw. Funny how I would draw and when my fingers got about two inches from my face I would freeze and could not finish the draw even with a very light bow. I thought I had read everything on the subject and then I bought Dr. Jay Kidwell's book "Instinctive Archery Insights". It has a section on TP and drills to use to control it. I cannot recommend it highly enough. It has put all the fun back in archery for me. I can now come to full draw and hold at any distance. My shooting has greatly improved. I continue to do the drills he describes every time I shoot. Good Luck!!
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I have/had what your dealing with. As others have said, it doesnt really go away, you just learn to control it for awhile. It is all mental as you said. I think its the excitement of wanting to see the arrow in the target. I got a tip from one of the masters of the barebow, think volume 3. It is designed to build strength, but it has helped with my snap shooting type TP. I googled and found a on line timer. I set it for 8 seconds. It counts down, 3,2,1, go. I start my draw and am at anchor when it says go. I focus on the target while I keep a solid anchor. Then you hear, 3,2,1,stop. I then loose the arrow. This is teaching me that its good to hold, cause I can tell you I shoot awesome doing this. I get weak fairly soon, so I shoot 2 arrows, retrieve, repeat. The first shot is awesome, second one Im shaking like a leaf, yet 50% of those second shots are right on the money. Im over bowed, hence the reason I tried this technique for building strength. It works well for keeping snap shooting TP at bay. Give it a try, nothing to loose.
Ken
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been there too. I took a 2 step approach to eliminating it. 1) made a longbow out of a 6 ft length of PVC. Put down the bow for a week and practiced drawing that over and over - aiming at things and not releasing. 2)When I went back to my regular bow, I went to the blind bale as others have mentioned. You basically need to retrain your brain that you don't have to release as soon as you get on your target. It can be overcome. You just have to commit to forgetting about hitting a spot for while and re-program your shot sequence. Good luck.
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I use to have the same problem. The way I got over it (which was very quickly) was I would look at what I wanted to hit but my arrow would be actually pointing about a foot over what I was looking at, come to full draw, hit anchor then lower your bow line up and let her go ! Works for me anyway ! Good luck !
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Had this issue a year ago and am on the road to recovery. Here's what worked for me.
1. A solid week of every night in the garage drawing back on my new Silverado, (No kidding. It's pathetic I know.) for about 5-10 seconds each.
2. Over a month of just blind bale shooting in the basement at 3 feet. I would vary it though in that some times I wouldn't shoot, but I'd let down, (that was my key for regaining control).
3. Took the shooting outside at a target, but if I caught myself pre-releasing (can't hardly talk about this with a straight face!) I'd stop and finish the session at the blind bale.
4. I groove it in on the bale regularly. Before and after I shoot I'm usually on the bale.
5. You must have confidence in your shooting. I mentally remind myself that for the love of God it's just shooting a bow and arrow and I'm pretty sure that I'm capable of that. When I get out of my head about it, I have fun and shoot better... not great, just better.
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Really appreciate all comments and tips, ive been drawing the bow with my eyes closed. When I do this I come to full draw and when i open my eyes at full draw i am right where i want to be "everything lines up". This is not going to be an easy road. I am determined to beat this. Ive also been drawing with my eyes open and not aiming at my desired target and once at full draw move my attention to the target. This works but i really need to get this mental block out of my head.
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If all else fails you might want to try a cricket draw check. It worked wonders for me.
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I agree with everyone else that it is target panic. The only thing that ever worked for me was to grab a light bow. 35# or less and just work on form on a blind bale.
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Thanks everyone, I think I have a touch of both at times. If I get close to the target I can make myself stop and aim. Before I knew what was going on I coudn't keep from releasing. It is a ugly beast that does come back but with your help at least we can get it under control. Thanks again!!
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I picked up the DVD Push/Release method. After following the guidelines, I have been snap shooting free.
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Originally posted by Flingblade:
I have had TP for many years. I had tried everything. At times it was so bad I could not even get 3/4 draw. Funny how I would draw and when my fingers got about two inches from my face I would freeze and could not finish the draw even with a very light bow. I thought I had read everything on the subject and then I bought Dr. Jay Kidwell's book "Instinctive Archery Insights". It has a section on TP and drills to use to control it. I cannot recommend it highly enough. It has put all the fun back in archery for me. I can now come to full draw and hold at any distance. My shooting has greatly improved. I continue to do the drills he describes every time I shoot. Good Luck!!
One of the local archers loaned me that same book at last weekends 3-d shoot. I sure hope it works! I haven't gotten to the part about TP, but so far it's been a good, interesting read.
All the rest of the suggestions on here also sound really good and can't wait to try some of them.
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Originally posted by Papa:
I picked up the DVD Push/Release method. After following the guidelines, I have been snap shooting free.
When I did a google search on target panic I came across that DVD. I tried googling for more information on it, like feedback and reviews, but didn't really find much. Good to hear it's helped you. I may try it if nothing else works.
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I had TP about 7 years ago. I was so bad that my draw length went from 26" down to about 15" and I could not pull the bow back any further. It was like that was as far as the bow would flex. I struggled the whole summer and finally cured myself by getting about three feet from a big target, drawing with my eyes closed while forcing myself to my anchor and then releasing not caring where the arrow went. It worked but it was a tough struggle. Good Luck
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Sounds like you had it pretty bad, Head_Hunter. Did yours develop gradually to that point or did it take over all of a sudden? Mine's nowhere near that bad, and I certainly don't want for it to get any worse. One recurring theme I see in this thread and others like it is that most who've had, especially bad cases, seem to eventually defeat it or at least keep it under control for the most part, even though the mental struggle may still be there. So stories like yours give the rest of us hope at least.
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I have endured "it" for way too many years now. "It" is exactly why I gave up archery probably ten to twelve years ago, albeit, I was confused and using the training wheels at the time. I was introduced to Trad by a friend and at the time, Trad seemed to be the answer to all of my problems. Then gradually "it" started creeping into my tradtional shooting and now I'm back to where I was before. Okay it's not that I can't get on target, now it's snap shooting at it's utmost. I get my anchor back to my cheek and jaw and the shot is gone.
I've tried everything from drawing away from my intended target and moving onto it, blind bale with my eyes closed, and probably the worst effort of, I'm going to beat this no matter what!
None of it is a surefire fix. No matter what I try, "it" keeps coming back. I read a book that really shed some light on my problem. The books theory is that if we learn to shoot under a boat load of stress then we get to where we are shooting lights out, the brain begins to look for the stress that we learned to shoot under.
I should say that when it hit me, I was practicing for an Elk hunt in Wyoming in '93, and I was at that time able to put five arrows inside a five inch paper plate at 65yds. I went to shoot with one of the guys I would be traveling with and "it" hit me. My brain was looking for the "stress" from what I've learned. And since I didn't have the external stress, I've learned to create my own internal stress.
In the nine years that I've completed so far with traditional equipment, I've had more than my fair share of opportunities to let an arrow loose on animals. Not knowing just how or if "it's" going to affect me, I've opted to let the shot pass. I'm tired of that philosophy! Yesterday, I started working on my version of "it" in my own way. Shooting in the basement, blind bale to start my session, then shooting three arrows for groups, and then back to the blind bale to finish. My groups were decent; but, that could be explained by my not shooting for a month and a half. The blind bale to start and finish really has re-enforced the "form and release" of my shooting. I have decided that until my snap shooting has been controlled, that this is what my practice sessions will entail.
I'm so looking to my next session later tonight after the Pens game. Wish me luck! Sorry for the long winded post; but, this is probably one of the most ugly afflictions an archer can endure.
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I have never had it but occaisionally yak and arrow completly off target in just a premature wild shot so maybe it's similar. Don't know if this will help but I tell myself "hold, hold" all the time pulling back and then release. It seems to get things back on track after one of those wild shots.
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RTH,
You are fortunate to live where you do.
Set up some classes with Len Cardinale and learn to do this the right way.
He teaches at Bordy's in Florham Park, NJ. Not next door, but well within driving distence.
You wont' regret it.
Allen
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I'm going thru a chronic case of TP myself. I'm in the process of trying to resolve it. I'm shooting my sons 30 lb bow at a blank block target at about 5 yards. I'm trying to reinvent my anchor point by copying Rich Welch's style. And trying to get into some kind of cadence. I think for me it's going to be a long process. But I'm determine to conquer it, because I haven't been enjoying shooting our league or 3D shoots.
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I like some of the tips on this thread! Glad I found it so I can use some of the techniques and hopefully cure my own case of target panic.
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I am glad that I found this thread. I thought that I was going insane. In my bedroom, I keep my quiver and bow leaning against my gun safe which is in the corner of the room. (Wife lovvvvvves that).
Anyhow, every night I will draw my bow with an arrow into, all the way back, anchor at the corner of my mouth no problem, and hold for 3-5 seconds. I do this probably 6-12 times before bed.
Then, for whatever reason I get in my backyard at the target. I get a deep hook and go to draw back, and my hand does not want to get to the corner of my mouth. It is like there is an invisible force-field keeping my finger 2 inches in front of the corner of my mouth and completely preventing me from getting it there, then I release. It is really frustrating.
I think it is target panic for sure. When I close my eyes outside I have no probably anchoring at the mouth.
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"I think it is target panic for sure. When I close my eyes outside I have no probably anchoring at the mouth."
Sorry to say, yes, it's the panic, and it sounds very similar to my case. IMO drawing at the wall or with your eyes closed will not help at all. You need to do the drill up close with a light bow and eyes focused on the bale. Draw, anchor, and let down. When you can do that at 3 feet, and be in complete control you can start to shoot a few arrows, and bridge your way back. It's most important to NOT fool yourself. You simply can't move back until the anticipation is gone. Good Luck. I'm 10 months in and doing very well.
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I had never heard of a lot of the finer points of traditional archery until I got on Tradgang in the last few months. However, I had been going out at night and shooting at my bale of hay, when all I could see was the bale but no detail -- barely even the end of my arrow. I seemed to be pulling and holding to anchor better than in the day time. I thought it was my imagination. Then I started reading about blind bale shooting.... It really does work. I've also noticed, as someone mentioned, that a deep hook also helps to anchor and hold. Yet, its a work in progress.
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You can try to draw at a target with your right eye closed, for a right hander, do not release. Do that until you know exactly what it feels like to be pulling with all the right muscles and what your anchor feels like. then do the same closing your left eye. then do the same with both eyes open. Then shoot that blank bail up close or go to a large field and shoot the sky or just take crazy long shot to the other end of the field. I find that from that point shooting at stuff that is about point on and against a back drop that does not concern you with loss of your arrows helps. Shooting the same target all the time or shooting in a nervous social situation can make our brains begin to preignite. The problem is in between your ears, it is how and what you are thinking about the shot. those thousand thoughts per second are not good for your single minded coordination for your shot. It is not about what you don't want to do. it is all about what you simply, with no pressure, are going to do.
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I have all but cured my target panic by following some of the advice on this thread.
1. I bring only one arrow out to the backyard with me.
2. I draw back and aim at the corner of my shed, which I have no intent of shooting, then hold anchor and move my eyes ONTO the target, and release.
I have been doing really well with this method. Further, I think it is good practice for real time hunting, as it helps me move onto target and focus.
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I have had a recent conversation with Dr. Jay Kidwell, author of the book "Instinctive Archery Insights," which was previously mentioned. He made me realize that if you have situational target panic, i.e. it only occurs when you shoot in tournaments, or in other specific situations, the best way to solve it is to deal with it in those situations, and not by doing drills in other situations where it doesn't occur.
In my case, he recommended using a sliding anchor drill when I was shooting in competition. Quite often, when shooting in a competition, I would wish I could just step to the side and shoot a few arrows casually like I do in my backyard, and maybe then the problem would go away. His sliding anchor drill allows me to do something in the middle of competition that gives me the same relief.
Clearly, anything you do in competition or hunting that varies from good form is less than desirable. But then trying to shoot with good form and blowing the shot through target panic is even less desirable than that, and this does give you a way to work on that in the actual situation where it is happening.
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McDave,
Is the sliding anchor drill described in his book? I have read the book and follow the drills but don't remember the sliding anchor drill. I am a firm believer in Dr. Kidwell's drills as I am now shooting with control at 40 yards in my backyard where I could rarely get to full draw at 20 before. However, I still have trouble with shots on game.
Thanks,
Gary
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Sometimes what is contributing to TP is simply bad form. You want to shoot from a position of strength. If at full draw you are feeling tension in your neck or shoulder, no good. Your mind will listen to your body and push you to execute the shot quicker to relieve itself from the tension. Try to adopt a better position, experiment without an arrow. Examine every part of your shot. You want to end up with a strong solid feel at anchor. For me I achieve it by tensing my back muscles prior to draw. These are the same muscles you want to be at tension, not the neck or shoulders. Modify your stance, when I had issues reaching my anchor I found my stance was too closed, opened it up and it's working for me. Next take a look on how you draw the string back, you may be tensing your bicep which will work against you. Also look to see if you are drawing the string straight back or does you drawing elbow move in a slight circular motion. I find moving in an arc really enables you to use your back to draw the string back and allows to to get in proper alignment at full draw with your drawing elbow ending up inline with your arrow as in Terry's Clock. Drawing straight back for me, by checking in a mirror, I can see my elbow not quite in alignment, another reason why I prefer to draw with my elbow travel in a slight arc.
So don't jump into the psychotherapy session until you try to make your form work with you.
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Gary,
I believe he mentioned in the email he sent me that the sliding anchor drill was not in his book.
All of Dr. Kidwell's drills are based on the assumption that target panic is a learned response, as you know from reading the book, but I will lay a little background for others. A learned response means that as you repeat a motion many times, your subconscious mind may begin to anticipate the response. For example, even though your conscious mind does not want to release the arrow until you come to full draw, your subconscious mind might trigger the release early. This is a difficult one to deal with directly. We can't just tell the subconscious mind not to release the arrow early, because the subconscious mind doesn't work that way. And yet we do want to turn the job of releasing the arrow over to the subconscious mind, because we introduce errors if we decide to consciously release the arrow. In order to re-train the subconscious mind, we need to somehow disconnect the stimulus/response trigger that is causing it to release the arrow early. This is the basis of all of Dr. Kidwell's drills. (My apologies to Dr. Kidwell if I botched the psychological explanation).
The purpose of the sliding anchor drill is to break the connection to the subconscious mind that tells it that we are getting close to the end of the draw, so it is time to release the arrow. The drill is to purposely draw past your anchor, maybe 1/2" one time, 1" another time, varying amounts, and then bring the arrow back to your anchor. Some times you won't draw past your anchor at all, but you'll never stop the draw at the same place as long as you're practicing the drill.
I know, I know, this is bad form, but it isn't as bad a form as short-drawing the bow. And it is possible to regain your back tension when you finally reach anchor before you shoot. I suppose the main thing you lose is that you use up some energy with this back-and-forth movement. Actually, I suspect some really good archers do this routinely. Many people have noticed Rick Welch occasionally draw past his anchor and then relax into it. Whether he does this on purpose or not, I don't know.
I needed a drill that I could use in tournaments, as that's the main time I have target panic. I don't usually have it when I'm shooting in my backyard or on the range for fun. Sometimes I get it when I'm shooting a very short-range target, like 15-20 feet away, even when I'm not in a tournament. So this morning I tried it at my range on the close targets, and found that I could come to full draw with no problems. Tomorrow, if it doesn't storm, I'll try it for the first time in a tournament.
Ironically, LongStick64's discussion of good form in his post above was indirectly the cause of some of my anxiety. I always felt that I had to shoot each shot in a tournament using good form, and yet something was preventing me from doing that. I think that if I know I'm going to purposely deviate from good form by drawing past my anchor, I will probably enjoy the tournament more and be able to reach my anchor more consistently. Granted, my score might not be as high as it would if I were able to shoot with good form anyway, but I can't do that until I solve this problem first.
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McDave
If I'm not mistaken Dr. Kidwell's book is mostly dedicated to developing a repeatable form, you need to establish your form in order to get any benefit of his drills. If your form isn't working to assist you in pulling off the shot, then you need to change it. If you are entering a competition and you are concerned about your form, chances are you will stress about it. Taking away from your performance.
Executing the shot should be a smooth transition from the pre draw to the follow through. If you start thinking about it while you are trying to shoot, I don't see how you can be relaxed.
It's been my observation that many archers having problems don't spend enough time analyzing their form and see if it needs correcting.
We have all tried and copied other "famous" archers, but in the end, use what really works for you not against you.
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Executing the shot should be a smooth transition from the pre draw to the follow through
That's the way it was for me for many years, and mainly still is other than when I am shooting in competitions. Over the past year, in competitions, I find that I'm having trouble coming to full draw, and am prematurely releasing the arrow. If I could shoot the same way in competitions that I shoot casually, I wouldn't have a problem. I used to be able to shoot with good form in competitions, and did quite well in them (for an old fart with no talent). There is a difference between "target panic" and just shooting with poor form.
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"There is a difference between "target panic" and just shooting with poor form."
True but without good form you cannot begin to solve your TP issues.
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McDave,
Thanks for the explanation of the sliding anchor drill. I will give it a try. My problem has always been premature release. I have made much progress with the drills from the book, but still have the problem when adrenaline is thrown in the mix while hunting. I have also watched Rick Welch in slow motion draw past and slide forward into his anchor. Then his string hand flips out to the right upon release. Would seem to indicate form problems but we are all different and I don't think anyone can tell RIck he has poor form. I think the drill will work if I conciously regain back tension once I am anchored solid.
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Slide drill can be a creep builder if your not careful. While I see that this can be a drill to help you consciously get past short drawing I don't see how you can maintain back tension on the shot and not collapse into it.
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True but without good form you cannot begin to solve your TP issues.
LongStick,
This is the other way around. Impossible to work on form when you can't even get to full draw. In my case it was so bad at times I was releasing at half or 2/3 draw. Very frustrating and I almost quit archery altogether. I haven't tried this sliding anchor drill yet but can attest to how well the other drills work. I am now working on a solid consistent anchor and back tension. Was never able to work on that before solving the TP. Sounds like you haven't been plagued with this type of TP and that is good. As with the other drills they are to be used when needed but not all the time. If I find myself wanting to release early I go back to the drills to get back on track. I am shooting more often now without needing to do the drills more than once or twice.
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Fling,
Trust me I know where you are coming from. I've had TP. I know the symptoms. I also know that what worked for me is not a cure for everyone else. Not trying to stand on a pulpit here, just giving a different approach. There aren't any drills that work 100% for everyone, just like there isn't a style that everyone need to follow but we who have and had suffered through TP need alternate approaches. My point was simply that all of TP is not stuck in the subconscious that sometimes it could grow out of bad form. Take this last thing, most agree that TP is a result of a learned behaviour, such as releasing before getting at anchor. They get worse because every time they shoot they release early so in the long run they are enforcing the behaviour. Now if they get a really lightweight bow, light enough so the weight of the bow is not noticeable and plop down 3 feet away from the target and begin to work on form, hopefully they can relearn proper form and make that a learned behaviour.
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Do not quote me on this because I do not have my copy of Billets to Bows handy, but I think it was target panic issues that caused Fred Bear to switch from shooting right handed.
Glenn St Charles said he helped many shooters to switch sides for a variety of reasons.
You should still be able to get a copy of Billets to Bows from Joe on ****.
DDave
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Longstick,
I agree what works for one may not work for another. I tried many different approaches to dealing with TP over the years. Sometimes something would work for a few days or a week but then TP would be right back. I'm just glad I've finally found an approach that is working for me and I can move on to working on other aspects of the shot. I've been making steady improvement for almost a year now. All traditional shooters are unique and I guess that is what makes shooting recurves and longbows so captivating.
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I shot a tournament on Sunday, and tried the sliding anchor drill.
I used it off and on during the tournament. I would prefer to just come to full draw, hold, and shoot the shot, since that is good form. Some of the time I was able to do that. On other shots I felt tension beginning to build up, so it was difficult to get to full draw on that shot. When I felt like that, on the next couple of shots I would use the sliding anchor drill. I found that if I moved the arrow back and forth a few times at full draw, pulling an inch or less past my anchor and then dropping down to somewhat lower than my anchor and then back past my anchor again, it relieved the tension, and then I was able to hold at my anchor and make the shot. By dropping down lower than my anchor and then pulling into my anchor the final time before the shot, I was able to reestablish good back tension for the shot.
I don't particularly like doing this, because as Longstick says, it isn't a substitute for good form, but it did help me to relax during the tournament and I shot better than I would have if I didn't have this tool to use. I think that one of the things that brought this form of target panic on was that I felt helpless as to how to deal with it during a tournament. The only thing I knew to do was to just try harder each shot to come to full draw, which only made the situation worse. Hopefully, now that I know a way to get beyond the problem, it will be a tool I will need to use less and less as time goes on.
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dd, I believe he shot left handed because he lost part of a finger on his right hand in a farm accident as a boy. At least that is what I read.
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McDave,
That’s my current problem too. I can’t hold at “maintainable state” without the anticipation/anxiety creeping in. Curious… rather than use the sliding anchor, have you tried Dr. Kidwell’s figure 8 drill? On the surface at least, it seems it may be a good compromise and allow you to keep tension throughout your sequence.
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Great thread and discussions. I finished reading Dr. Kidwell's book and found it to be quite insightful, especially the chapter on target panic. Like was stated above, Dr. Kidwell explains it's a learned behavior or a learning process based on "classicalal conditioning," as first understood by Russian psychologist Ivan Pavlov. I'm no psychologist, and can't begin to describe or explain anywhere near as well as Dr. Kidwell can in how classical conditioning can lead to target panic in some people, but his explanation in his book made perfect sense as to its cause to lay person like me.
His book includes certain drills to help prevent and eventually cure target panic. I'm wondering if Olympic and competitive archers also include certain drills in their training and practice routines that help prevent or cure target practice. I can see how someone like me, a backyard shooter with no coach or instructor, can eventually develop target panic by never having incorporated proper training drills while flinging arrows at a target in my free time. So I was wondering what drills coaches have their competitive archers perform as a regular part of their training routine. Main reason I ask is so that I can try to incorporate them in my own practice sessions.
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Here's an extra drill I found, which is a little similar to what Dr. Kidwell advises:
http://www.archeryfix.com/aiming_drill.htm
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Originally posted by Ed Q:
Great thread and discussions. I finished reading Dr. Kidwell's book and found it to be quite insightful, especially the chapter on target panic. Like was stated above, Dr. Kidwell explains it's a learned behavior or a learning process based on "classicalal conditioning," as first understood by Russian psychologist Ivan Pavlov. I'm no psychologist, and can't begin to describe or explain anywhere near as well as Dr. Kidwell can in how classical conditioning can lead to target panic in some people, but his explanation in his book made perfect sense as to its cause to lay person like me.
His book includes certain drills to help prevent and eventually cure target panic. I'm wondering if Olympic and competitive archers also include certain drills in their training and practice routines that help prevent or cure target practice. I can see how someone like me, a backyard shooter with no coach or instructor, can eventually develop target panic by never having incorporated proper training drills while flinging arrows at a target in my free time. So I was wondering what drills coaches have their competitive archers perform as a regular part of their training routine. Main reason I ask is so that I can try to incorporate them in my own practice sessions.
Ed Q,
I have advised a number of national and Olympic level coaches on when and how to apply the target panic drills. I know one specific Olympic coach that requires all his shooters to do the drills. He told me he firmly believes it keeps target panic from developing. He also told me that he has had 100% success in treating target panic when applying the drills in the book. Actually, the sliding anchor drill (not in the book) originated from discussions with a few of these coaches.
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Hey guys i was a compound shooter for 30years. i kept tp. I finally had to trick my brain. I would tell myself when i draw that "im just aiming" "im not going to shoot" I could hold the pin on a dime. It helps me on my recurve to "trick my brain" too. I don't think i will ever get rid of tp. It frustrates me to know how good i could be if i did'nt have it. thanks for the help!
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Very interesting stuff. I discovered the sliding anchor through trial and error myself. I called it the yo-yo anchor.I never recommended it to anyone because for me, it helped but was not 100% reliable. The only thing that always allows me to hold and expand through the shot is a clicker. occasionally it seems as though the clicker will never break. In the past when this would happen, I'd just muscle through it even if it took 10 seconds. Now, if the shot mentally feels like it's gone into overtime, I let down, take a deep breath, and start over. I am going to try the sliding draw a bit more now. Now that I know that someone else has also used it to good effect.
Ike
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okay heres what idid went from swing draw to aset draw went from glove to tab and put aclicker on and got close to bale and did 20 with formaster befor every practice session tp gone
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I wish there was a cure. Many have tried and there are a number of solutions. You will just have to try many and see what works. When you have found the right one you will know.
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tp is areal bummer i think changing my draw from swing to set draw is what did it for me also the clicker helped
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In order to cure your target panic, you have to know the cause.. Most likely it lack of confidence
in your shooting abilities and also "thinking" about everything else but the target..
Find out why you have it and when it started will help in the curring process. !
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McDave, Since hearing that other people were using the sliding anchor, I decided to give it another try. I had sort of discovered this for myself , but I called it my fiddlers anchor. This time I am having really positive results. I come to what would be almost full solid anchor and then pull back farther , then ease off a bit , then back farther again. Maybe farther than the first time . I really am trying not to know when the release will happen. The goal is just to have it go when I'm back at one of the rearward pulls. It really breaks the tension. Sort of like the way you operate a cue stick when shooting pool. You don't pull back to a distance from the ball and freeze there. You stay in a bit of motion and stay free and relaxed.
I shot with a clicker for a long time and even switched to lefty for almost a year. I really think this method will allow me to shoot with more freedom and enjoyment than the other things I've tried.
BTW the arrow isn't really moving that far back and forth. Watching in a mirror I'd say it's maybe 3/8ths of an inch tops. I have not videod it yet , but I'll bet the actual release point ( draw length at release ) is 1/4 " or less variation
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What we practice is what we get good at.
Start very close to the bale and focus on the finest point possible; Pull with your elbow; Hold; Breathe. Shoot only one arrow at a time.
When you get good at this,, back up two steps, or maybe even three. It may take days to even begin to re-program.
The arrows fly where the mind puts them. If I'm scattered, so are my arrows. Narrow your focus to the smallest spot possible. You will always shoot right around your focus... If that focus is small,, great!
Don't shoot if/when you're stressed. Just go out and make a meditation out of it. I like to shoot in the dark. It reduces the distractions and allows you to pay attention to "the feel".
Shooting dandelions and clover can help, too,, as long as there's no rocks in the yard....
I tried a clicker and it just gave me more stress. I like what BowsanAiros had to say, a few lines up.
Good luck!.... Ken
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Just an update on the sliding anchor . I've been using it now for a few days and I think I'm on the verge of shooting without tp. I think the thing that really helps is not having a count or certain pull through that triggers the release. I draw to my anchor, pull back a bit more , ease off just a little and then pull again. The goal is to always shoot on one of the pulls and never on an ease up.If I were to tell myself that I were always going to release on the second pull or the third pull, I would start to freeze before that pull, and not be able to move back. The beauty of this is it keeps the release subconscious. The hardest distance for me to shoot is point-on , and I'm even getting to the place that I have control there.
This thread made me give this another try, and so far , It's really working.
BTW Longstick, I hate the clicker too, that's why I've kept trying other things
Ike
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I used to have target panic in the worst kind of ways I could not get to anchor or make an accurate shot. I finally got the Push Release DVD and since then my target panic is gone. I would recommend this DVD to anyone who has target panic. It's that good and it works as you are now focussing on your shot sequence rather than the target on every shot. You just let your eyes do their job and get you on target.
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I ALWAYS tell myself before I draw the bow that " I am not going to shoot this arrow". Then I draw and aim, but do not release. After a couple of times I don't have any issue with target panic. But, I see guys on the line start to "flinch" and stuff like that I just turn my head and look the other way. I swear that stuff is contagious LOL. Al Henderson has a book called " understanding winning archery" that is just wonderful. Lots of great things in that book. Good luck. :)
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Is there another name for the DVD Push/Release method? Where can you get it?