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Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: Cyrille on January 14, 2011, 04:39:00 AM
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I shoot a Black Widow PMA 62" limbs 47# @ 29 2/3 D.L. Easton Legacy XX75 2216 Arrows are cut to 30" w? 175 gr. field point/ broadhead backed with two(2) 5gr. washers. 3 fletch feathers
arrows fly left of POA and low. I can compansate
so that the arrow(s) hit the intended target where I want to @ 15, 20 yds. But would really like to have POA and POI the same kinda like my firearms do. Should I go to a heavier shaft, a heavier point or add that last 5gr. washer which would bring point weight up to 90grs.
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Right or left handed??
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shoot right handed but am left eye domanate. However I close the left eye and aim with the right eye.
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Have you bare shafted that arrow? According to the calculator the arrow is weak.
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Too weak? these are aluminum arrows with 185 grs. up front; not wooden arrows according to my "chart" the weight and arrow spine make them too stiff. If they were weak shouldn't the arrows be flying right instead of left? This is confusing I've always heard that too weak arrows fly right as too stiff arrows fly left.
The fellas at Black Widow recomemded the 2216s for my bow and for woodies a spine of 60- 65#
I have shot both but decided to go with the aluminiums.
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Arrows left of POA is an indication of overspined for a right hander. But with that heavy of a head on a 30" arrow it doesn't see that is your problem (I don't know diddly about aluminum). I shoot a 30" BOP cedar and my recurves of that weight like a 60-65 or 65-70# spine with a 125 gr tip. With that 170 gr warhead I'd need to get up to 70-75# spine.
Are you using some funky brace height or string nock height (too high)?
Left & low can also be plucking or trying to look at the arrow in flight for a righty ("peeking" - dropping the bow arm too soon). Count to two in your mind before moving after a shot.
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Stumpkiller what you say makes sense my BH is in the recomended range for my bow between 8 1/4 to 9"String nock height seems to be alright. But I do have the bad habit of dropping my bowhand too quickly but am slowly overcoming that faux pas.
So what you suggest is that I go to a lighter shaft? or lighter point say around 125 gr point?
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Thanks Stumpkiller
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your bow according to stu's newest version, requires a spine of 66#'s. the 2216 spines out at 61.6.
I input a 14 strand FF string. Used stu's info on black widows for the rest.
I would think the same that the arrow shows stiff, but the calculator shows weak. That's why I asked if you bare shafted it. W/O feathers, it flies as it comes off the bow, no feathers trying to staighten it out.
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The heads are the easiest thing to change (provided you have some around).
First: are you otherwise grouping well or is it an occasional fault? If it's only occasionally take what seems to be a good arrow and shoot that one repeatedly at a small aiming point (I use a 1" square piece of duct tape). It's not unknown that someone screwed up a batch of arrows and got the nocks crooked. It can also be something as simple as a nock isn't lined up well and the fletching is smacking the riser. Torquing the bow to one side on release will exagerate that problem as well.
Before you run out and buy new shafts I would recommend (if you don't have them) you get a selection of many weights of fieldpoints (Three Rivers sells a test assortment) and try them to see if you get a better flight with one weight. I don't think you're overspined with that arrow - but as I said I don't know aluminum shafts from Shine-ola.
I don't necessarily recommend 125 gr heads, but I will say I know guys who have used them for 40 or 50 years and have no problems killing game and scoring well at shoots. I have 35 years of happy times with them and the heaviest head I ever tried was 145 grains (and went back to 125gr). I think we have EFOC'd ourselves lately with excessive head weights. But then I only hunt thin-skinned 200-250# animals that don't have pointy teeth or claws.
I will toss this out: if you're already spinning the arrow for stability why make it extremely tip heavy? Penetration. I use a small head (1-1/8" wide RibTek 125gr, double-bevel) on a relatively heavy arrow (590 gr) and I taper the last 12" of my cedar shafts. They blow through a whitetail with the 52# to 60# of bows I use unless I center a rib going in; in which case they split the rib and still exit the far-side, though usually hang up on the fletch. And, IMHO, ain't nothing wrong with leaving a piece of shaft in a wound to keep it open and bleeding and not clogged with fat and lung tissue.
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With properly spined arrows, I hit low and left when I don't come to full draw or creep on release.
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I have 125, 145 and 175 gr points
I will try each point without the 5 gr. washers and see how the shafts fly and go from there
Thanks for all the help guys I will report back if I have any other issues and to let ya'll know if point change solves the problem.
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I would go out and shoot in the pitch dark. At 20 yards. Use a small light source. Shot 5 arrows. See how close they group. I bet you could put a differant weight on every arrow and the group will not show a differance. The idea is to not be able to see anything but the small taarget you are shooting at.
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I have the same problem with 62" bow 47# 30 inch draw and 2413 shafts and 100 grain field points. It seems to always want to go left and low or other places except where I'm aiming. It took so much of my confidence I borrowed two compound bows which I'm great with on targets trouble is up in a tree stand buddled up in clothing and a harness and no grunting and groaning :-) I can't get either of the darn thinks pulled back. They are 60 pounders... too much for my worn out shoulder. So now it's back to figuring out my recurve.
I have 3 other recuves. A 45# 54" browning wasp that I use the same 2413 arrow with and they go to POA. I have 40# sheakspear necada 56" and I use 2016 and 100 grain field points and they go to POA. Then just for expermentation I tried a 32# 64 inch target bow I play with using the 2016 arrows and same point and I'm more accurate with that than I am with the 47# bow I can't shoot straight.
Is it all in my head?... In my younger days I broke a few tennis rackets...yesterday I was so frustrated for a split second I wanted to smash my bow into pieces.
Today, Sunday, and Monday is all that's left of Archery season here in Kentucky. Wish I could use my new 47# bow but this afternoon I'm heading out with my 1970's Brown Wasp.
Can't hit the broad side of barn with my $400 bow and I'm trying to make bread this morning but the dough isn't rising-I think I killed the yeast ..... Sucks to me :-)
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I shoot 30 inch long 2216s with 200gr. tips out of 56# to 61# at 29in. Recurves , they fly perfectly. My lower pound bows will shoot them to the left.
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I'm amazed at how differently what seem to be similar bows shoot, and highlights the need to tune each bow setup individually. Cyrille, I like your idea of using all the field point weights and comparing fletched and unfletched arrows against each other to check your tuning.
You could try some different shafts or shaft lengths if you can't find a combo that works.
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I changed from the 2413 arrows back the 2016 arrows and focused on canting the bow a bit. I thought I was zeroed in with some practice this morning.....but dang I missed a doe tonight standing broad side. Must have goofed up shooting from a tree stand. Should have done this before..tomorrow I'm taking a target bag and putting it where the deer was and try to figure out what happened. Tomorrow is the last day of the season hopefully they'll come back tomorrow evening.
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I have found that shooting from a tree is a whole lot diffirent from shooting on the ground or
uphill so the speak. Kinda like but not exactly like bowfishing. Does one aim above or below the target?.
Luckily I live in southern Louisiana where the ground for the most part is flat.
Oh BTW I believe I have found the combo I need with my arrow setup. Not really certian yet as I have only shot five flights from 20 yds but for the most part the arrows were hitting close to or exactly POA Thanks to all for all the advice given.
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I have found that shooting from a tree is a whole lot diffirent from shooting on the ground or uphill so the speak. Kinda like but not exactly like bowfishing. Does one aim above or below the target?.
Trying to aim, or at least compensate and hold over/under, ALWAYS screws up my shot. I visualize where the deer's heart would be in the body in the three-dimensional body cavity and try to put my arrow right through the center of it. That invariably is a low hold . . . and that works well. Another great trick I have heard is to concentrate on the spot you want the arrow to exit the body. Of course, you can't see it, but it seems to work at fun shoots.
Look at the shot placement images that are Stickies in the forum here. The heart is lower than most guys think.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Stumpkiller/Bowhunting/Deer_Anatomy.jpg)
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I'm surprised by the arrow diameter discussed. I shoot 46#, 29.5 draw and use either 19/16's or 20/16's with a 125 tip. Obtained some 24's in a trade and find them to really push left from a RH Bow.
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The arrow diameter was suggested by the boys at Black Widow the 125 gr. point also 2 when I first asked about the combination I should use that was over a year ago.
I started going with heaiver points when I found that the arrows consistantly flew to the left.
It finally got to the point where I just found an aiming spot that would deliver the arrow left of my POA and allow me to score bulls consistantly
But aiming 4 or 5 " high and right just didn't sit well with me; the arrow should hit close to POA if not the POA itself. I believe that I have found the right combination with the set up I have now. 2216 aluminums cut 30" with 145 gr points in front. I have shot this set up @ 20 yds for two days now and am satisfied with the results thus far as the arrows are hitting POA or very close to my POA.