Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: Ybuck on October 21, 2009, 10:23:00 PM
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I heard Byron Fergeson once say that he thinks longbows are more forgiving to shoot than recurves.
Because the limbs on LB are thicker, and stiffer, therefore more "stable".
What are your thoughts?
Thanks.
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I've shot both and I can shoot a longbow better, but I think it's individual. How's Minn? I'll be there on the 2nd!! -Steve
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Originally posted by sdpeb1:
I've shot both and I can shoot a longbow better, but I think it's individual. How's Minn? I'll be there on the 2nd!! -Steve
Been real wet here.
The deer are starting to move alot this past week.
The 2nd should be perfect timing for you.
thanks for the response.
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Whichever bow has your hand positioned farther forward relative to the tips of the unbraced bow will be more forgiving of shooter errors.
For example, my longbow with over 3" of net reflex is a whole lot touchier to shoot than my recurves where there's only 3/4" of net reflex, but I have to be just as careful with my form and follow through when shooting my recurves with 3+"
of net reflex.
The tips of a bow want to return to their unbraced profile after the shot, though the string prevents them from doing it. As you increase the net reflex you generally increase performance but at the cost of "stability" or "forgivability."
The extremes of this are a longbow that follows the string quite a bit - which you'll find almost complete agreement as being a sweet and stable bow to shoot (if a dog in the speed department) - and a true horsebow where the tips are so highly reflexed they touch or overlap in the unbraced bow - which is a speed demon but so touchy of form and follow-through you don't see many using them for target archery.
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weeeellll. 3ard leg of IBO worlds
LB 353
TRD 362
RU 383
hmmm longbow does not seem more forgiving
rusty
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Jim Ploen said:
"Forgiveness is in the arrow,not the bow."
anybody remember him?
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what Zeta said below sums it up better than I can :)
rusty
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Gordie I met Jim at NAFAC05, he gave me a signed belt buckle made from 21st century wood, very cool guy.
I'm with trashwood, the tourney scores prove different, maybe the odd good Longbow shooter can match or even sometimes outshoot the Recurve but 98% of the time Recurve wins.
Gordie in my countries tourney rules we have a Trad Recurve division with wood arrows and 3 Longbow Archers have outshot Recurves at out National champs 7 out of the last 10 years BUT when you look at the scores it's only the top Longbow shooter then look on the list it's ALL Recurve down to about 10th place.
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hello zeta,
my 21st century"longbow", from jim & buddy, came w/ a belt buckle, looks like they made it from the wood they cut from the sight window.
that was 12 yrs. ago,boy time flies.
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Gordie did he sign it for you?
It was a nice gesture from him as I only spoke with him 15min at the tourney.
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A very timely topic for me. I'm trying to decide between a Martin Savannah Longbow or a Martin Hatfield Take-down recurve. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm a beginner when it comes to traditional archery.
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Mark think of it this way
A Longbow is more forgiving of poor shooting form, if you have poor shooting form and you shot Longbow and Recurve side by side the Longbow will give you better results than the Recurve BUT if your shooting form is solid you will likely shoot the Recurve better.
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The tips of a longbow limb are normally much stiffer than the tips on a recurve limb, which makes the longbow more stable when your form is off a bit. Byron is right. For target shooting when you can achieve perfect form, it doesn't really matter. It does matter for a hunter, when field conditions prevent perfect form.
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Trad bows and compounds work the same on this point. A longer bow tends to be more forgiving than a short one. Longbows are normally longer and thus more forgiving of error forms. Add in the thicker and anrrower limbs and it adds up.
I would have to say that trying to use longbows versus recurves winners as a measure of more accurate is a tough one to prove. How many people are shooting recurves in those shoots versus how many are shooting recurves. If 75% are shooting recurves, your gong the see most of the winners shooting recurves by default. I suspect the recurves are shot more dur to the increased arrow speeds you can get at lower draw weights.
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better to do your part and not rely on the bow to "forgive" form errors :archer:
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For me, a recurve feels more forgiving. I think this is because the typical recurve grip allows more consistent hand placement than many longbow grips (not all) do. I think being cut past center helps too. I find I am able to more quickly and accurately get "on target" with a recurve, especially in hunting situations. Having said that, I sure wish the opposite was true for me. I like longbows better!
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For me, I seem to shoot recurves better. It seems that recurves are more forgiving when I have bad form.
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I have read a great deal thru the years about this subject and agree with those that say a longbow is more forging, however I shoot both and feel that Iam better with a recurve and seem to be more accurate with it. Confidence I think is a big part of this.
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The bow that works with you is the one. Personally my Dale Dye is the most forgiving bow I have, but I love to shoot my Morrison Cheyenne more. So I guess go with what makes you happy, you'll shoot more, hit more, and smile more.
On a serious note I do think a smartly designed recurve is more stable.
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Didn't Howard Hill once suggest that he was not a good enough archer to shoot recurve bows?
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I am simply not able to shoot the Longbow as good as my recurves,but I like to shoot it from time to time.
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Originally posted by dick sable:
Didn't Howard Hill once suggest that he was not a good enough archer to shoot recurve bows?
Did not Howard Hill make and sell his own brand of Longbow, why would he promote Recurves. ;)
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Very true Stephen. Good point.
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Okay, as far as posting the scores from the IBO 3D shoots, I believe speed comes into play there because of the unknown yardages that are shot. So, therefore, the faster bow(recurve) generally allows more room for error in the distance judging department. I'd be willing to bet the longbow scores would be better than the recurve scores if shooting indoors at spots at 20 yards. But I also believe it would be very, very close in scoring.
Quite possibly, the bow being cut just short of center(some longbows) may have something to do with it too as compared to the bow being cut to center or beyond center(recurves and some longbows) when comparing overall scoring. Possibly, the bow cut shy of center could be more critical of anchor point consistency than the center/beyond center-cut bow. I also believe the shape/size of the grip has an effect on accuracy, too. As you can see, there are many more variables apparent than just comparing the shape of the limb tips.
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I always thought I shot a longbow better than a recurve until a picked up a buddy's very old recurve he found at a sale somewhere. Don't know what it is, but it's got a grip very much like my longbow and it points and shoots for me the same as my bow.
So the conclusion for me is that the limb design is very secondary to the grip shape. Works for me anyway.
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Originally posted by zetabow:
Originally posted by dick sable:
Didn't Howard Hill once suggest that he was not a good enough archer to shoot recurve bows?
Did not Howard Hill make and sell his own brand of Longbow, why would he promote Recurves. ;) [/b]
He made recurves to. But I think that maybe the recurves wasn´t as good and stable back then, then they are today. In the book Hunting the hard way he writes about a recurved bow he made for himself before a hunting trip, and he trained very hard with it, and shoot it very well during training, but when he was hunting with it and had to take very difficult shoots, kneeling, squating and so on he missed and lost a lot of arrows. Then he went back to camp to get his old reliable bow Grandpa and shoot well again.
I don´t know since I haven´t shoot a recurve during difficult circumstanses and I just love longbows, but I recon that from a treestand and on stable ground it´s easier to shoot well with a recurve.
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Not an expert, but the handle of the bow seems to be to me the key here. If the handle of the bow you are shooting allows your bowhand to grip the same way again and again arrows fly where you look. Otherwise its flyers and errors ...alleast to me. I shoot both LB and Recurves all the time.
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I shoot my recurve a lot better than my longbow.
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I'd be willing to bet the longbow scores would be better than the recurve scores if shooting indoors at spots at 20 yards.
Might want to look at some tournament scores before placing that bet and losing your money ;)
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I think it depends on what you're selling. :D
SL
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When talking about the IBO longbow class vs TRD & RU you must remember.....1)Longbow shoots wood arrows while TRD/RU can use any arrow 2) Longbow shoots a 25yd max while TRD/RU shoot 30 yd max. They shoot the same courses but different stakes(Last year at the 2nd leg of the National triple crown I shot with 2 longbow shooters on a couple of targets they shot as much as 12 yards less than I did)
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The NFAA has only one stickbow class, Traditional. Just for the sake of discussion, I don't recall ever hearing of anyone winning a major indoor shoot in the traditional class with a longbow.
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When I lived in UK we had a Trad Recurve class that shot wooden arrows, I've outshot this class 7 or 8 times in National tourneys including Indoors and only two other people have managed to do this, even when equipment is the same on paper the Recurve still has the edge over Longbow.
When it comes to IFAA Recurve Bowhunter or Barebow it hard for me to even get close to the top shooters, arrows do make a difference.
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All i know is that my long bow ( the only trad bow i have) becomes more and more forgiving the more i practise with it :)