Trad Gang

For those of you that made the switch, what tips can you give that you found helped you? Anchor etc.

Billy

I found that after switching to 3 under I was shooting better..IE tighter groups. Later on I made a further improvement by touching the tip of my nose to the back edge of the cock feather,( I shoot 3 fletch ) while my fingers are anchored at the corner of my mouth.

I just recently made that switch as well. The hardest thing for me to do was to move the arrow up to the target. I shot a lot at less than ten yards before anything else. Once I was comfortable there. 25, 25 ann 30 seemed to fall right into place. I also use the feather as an anchor.

In order to shoot accurately, you have to get your eye over the arrow.  If you hold your head straight up when you draw to anchor, your eye will be to the left of the arrow (for a RH shooter).  If you rotate your head into the arrow, the string might hit your nose when you shoot.  If you tilt your head instead, your nose will stay out of the path of the string.  If your arrow seems to be flying from the right to the left (for a RH shooter), that means that your eye is to the left of the arrow.  If your arrow seems to be flying straight to the target, that means your eye is over the arrow.

One of the most helpful tips for me was to use two nock sets on the string so if you get any finger creep down the string the arrow still stays where it belongs.

The second is to make sure you get your third finger under in alingment with the other two. When I let it get out of alignment I pick up a lot of string noise.  When I have the string laying in the first knuckle groove of all three it's pretty quiet.

I use my thumb behind my jaw bone and the tip of my nose on the back edge of the cock feather for anchors.  Tucking my thumb behind my jaw bone cuts down on the dreaded "creeping release."

Paul,

I shot that Tree stick last night in the dark under a light and it did great.  I tried shooting three under and wow!  It did click.  But it was dark and I could not see the arrow flight.  I had to walk to the target to see where I hit.  I was impressed with the three under accuracy.

Now, let's talk about that extra noise from three under.  I see you have worked on finger positioning.

I ordered a skinny string from my buddy Michael Harbison in south Louisiana, the man who makes Acadian Woods strings. I want to attempt to eliminate all noise.  I like the three under accuracy, but the extra noise bugs me.

McDave,  I noticed the head thing last night experimenting.  Good tip. Thanks.  Any thoughts on the extra noise?

Thanks;

Billy

I'm just breaking in a new Dakota bow Rick Welch made for me.  As you may know, Rick prefers 3 under, and the bow was tillered with that in mind.  It is very quiet, even shooting the light arrows that Rick prefers.  He put a strip of what looks like fuzzy velcro (the side with no hooks) over the string grooves on the limb tips.  He sent it with a skinny string, that he double served.  He very carefully installed rubber cat whisker string silencers exactly 12" from each limb tip, tying them on rather than just jamming them in between the strings like I would do.  Cat whiskers wouldn't be my first choice, but what do I know.  I'm sure his recommended brace height of 8 1/2" takes noise into consideration.  I haven't tried any other brace heights on that bow yet, but I know on my other bows, when the string stretches and the brace height lowers, I can hear it.  Other than that, I guess you'll have to call Rick and ask him if he has any secrets for making a quiet bow that I didn't pick up on.

Billy,

Generally in my experience the skinny strings are noisier than the B50 strings - not to mention less forgiving of release errors, so for quiet I tend to go with the heavier, and admittedly somewhat slower, strings.  McDave, any thoughts on that subject would be appreciated.

The other thing you can try - recommended by a couple of bowyers I've talked to, is to ease your nock sets up on the string to get to a position that more closely resembles where your fingers would be shooting split - try going up about half the thickness of your ring finger and see if that helps and play with it from there.

I take it that my box survived the tender mercies of the Post Office without letting the bow get damaged?

paul

The best advice I can give is buy Masters of the Bare Bow III and watch the segments by Rod Jenkins and Denny Sturgis. I switched back to 3 under after trying split for a couple years. I seem to shoot better 3 under, but mainly I have a crooked index finger (an old horse-breaking injury) so the side of my index finger was continually blistering and peeling.

Watch the video then go out and do what they say. I absolutely guarantee you will shoot better. (No, I don't sell or have any stake in the video).

30coupe

I have the MBBIII, great DVD. I will look at it again tonight.

Thanks;

Billy

Paul,

You didn't see that post I left on Pow Wow thanking you?

Bow looks great.

Billy

Good info already provided and I echo some of the same.  I anchor with my middle finger on the tooth behind the canine and touch the fletching to my nose.  By using both anchors, my draw is very consistent.  This places the index finger of my drawing hand right under my cheekbone.  When I release, I make sure that my draw hand stays snug against this spot, but slides backwards just a bit from the tension.  The beauty of using the cheekbone is that it keeps my draw hand from drifting up.  In this way, I can get a consistent release without string pluck and without putting disproportionate pressure on the ring finger.

Claudia


Claudia

Thanks Claudia,

How long have you been shooting 3-under and is this double anchor something you developed over time?

I have been shooting split finger for over 30-years and was amazed at how quickly the 3-under fell into place one night just playing.   And, how accurate it was with just a few minutes.  I am trying to shorten my learning curve.

Do you notice any additional string noise with 3-under as opposed to split finger, and if so, how do you tune it out?

Thanks;

Billy

Billy,

I have been shooting three-under for around 10 years I guess.  Like you, my accuracy changed very quickly when I made the switch, so I haven't looked back!

I began to use the double anchor for a couple of reasons.  First, I always touched a feather to my nose in my compound shooting days, so I decided to bring this into my trad bow shooting.  Second, after reading Byron Ferguson's book "Become the Arrow", I decided to use his advice and anchor with my finger on a tooth as opposed to the corner of the mouth.  Finally, after shooting a bunch of arrows I learned that I could use my cheekbone as a "guide" of sorts for my index finger on my draw hand.  By pulling the string to the archor tooth and "pressing" my hand/index finger against my face just under the cheekbone, I not only achieve a consistent anchor, but a more consistent release.

In terms of bow noise, I do think that a bow can be a bit more noisy using three-under.  This has never negatively impacted my bowhunting and perhaps that is because I spend a lot of time tuning my bows and arrows.

Try any of these things if you are having problems:

1.  Talk to the bowyer and get his/her advice.(This is #1 for sure!)
2.  Change the brace height.
3.  Change silencer material (I like wool puff balls the best).
4.  Try a set of limbsavers (I love them!).
5.  Use a Mountain Muffler bow string.  These are fantastic strings and use wool for string slap and silencers.
6.  Consider using a B50 string.

Hope this helps.  Good luck and good shooting!

Claudia

You want really good arrow flight???? Try two fingers under.

T.J.

Billy, how ya doing, I made the switch , it made me anchor at a solid spot everytime. I was having short draw issues. Good luck...Mark

Hey Mark.

How have you been?

I have been shooting three under for just a couple of days and it does seem to make you more accurate.  If you get in a tree, I would imagine it extends your point on distance.

Still working out the anchor thing. Shooting close to figure it out and moving out to satisfy the curiosity.  I have a skinny string coming from Michael Harbison to quieten this Tree Stick down even more. I have been impressed with it. Smooth, fast and quiet.  A lot of my buddies in the LTB shoot one.

I also have been exercising with a device similar to the Form Master Rod Jenkins used in MBBIII. It taxes your back muscles and builds them up.  Doing that does reduce the strain on your arms and shoulder.  I feel pull from other areas. I always drew with my back muscles, but using this exercise, I was not 100%. It allows me to hold my bow for a considerable amount of time with no shake or tremble. It will make a difference this fall. The work out has also allowed my draw arm elbow to go back further and help with my form.  Lot's of pluses and I am in the experimenting mode.

Kentucky TJ was saying shoot two under.  It is great all of the ideas that pop up.  I like it and think it is neat others are willing to reach out.  More than one way to skin a cat.

It will be interesting when it all falls together.

Thanks;

Billy

3under brings the arrow closer to your eye and as a result small changes in the angle of your head can have a larger impact on your point of aim. Try tucking your chin into your neck and compare that to extending your chin as if looking down your nose. A second anchor will help to maintain your head angle. Nose on your feathers or eyebrow on your string. I find tucking my chin helps me to bear down on the target and get my eye closer to the arrow.

Thanks Steve,

It seems I have developed the Rod Jenkins disease, I hit my nose with the string.  So, something is drifting with my shooting.  I am rotating my head instead of tilting it.

McDave had a post some time ago where he had some arrows refletched to move his second anchor. Sounds interesting.  

Still time to experiment.

Thanks for the help.

Billy

Your point on distance will actually be shorter shooting three under due to the flatter angle of the arrow. When I first switched back to three under, I noticed more noise and my middle finger was getting sore. That told me I wasn't getting equal pressure on my fingers. I was shooting with a split finger tab that I had trimmed to fit for split finger. At times the string was whacking my middle finger.

I made a leather tab from an old boot top. It was one layer of cowhide and one of deerskin. I used barge cement to stick them together and cut and fit the tab to fit me. What I discovered was that I was hooking the middle finger slightly deeper than the others. I started to concentrate on hooking all three fingers in the first joint crease. When I do that and keep my fingers touching each other, I seem to have a much quieter shot, pretty much the same as split finger. I think the key is probably maintaining equal tension with all three fingers.

I also saw a dramatic improvement in my shooting since going to 3 under. I don't think I'll ever go back to split.

I agree with TJ.  Give 2-fingers under a try.  I can't see any advantage to 3-under --- though there may be one --- as long as your two fingers are strong enough to pull and hold.

Mark