Trad Gang
Topic Archives => How To - Resources => Topic started by: Friends call me Pac on May 30, 2009, 01:05:00 AM
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I know lots of folks know about footing carbons but just as many don't know how to do it. My wife filmed me as I explain how I make my stumpers. This is the toughest stumping arrow I have ever seen. Hope it helps someone that is interested but isn't sure how to go about footing an arrow.
I had to make it in 3 sections so it would play on photobucket. each segment is about 2 minutes long.
See you in the stumping woods.
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc157/pactac/th_BPArrow1.jpg) (http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc157/pactac/?action=view¤t=BPArrow1.flv)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc157/pactac/th_BPArrow2.jpg) (http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc157/pactac/?action=view¤t=BPArrow2.flv)
(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc157/pactac/th_BPArrow3.jpg) (http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc157/pactac/?action=view¤t=BPArrow3.flv)
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Thanks Pac.
Allan
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I called the nock a insert a few times. I guess that's why I'm not a moviestar. Can't get all of the lines right. :knothead: Still I think anyone will understand what I'm talking about by watching the video.
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That was awesome!
Thanks!
I've got all the supplies to make 3 extra arrows.
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Very nice :thumbsup: I use JB weld, but after watching this I'm going to give the Gorilla glue a shot, I have used it on my fishing arrows and it works good on those.
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Very good videos. :thumbsup: :clapper:
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Nice vidio Duane. Nothing like seeing it versus just reading about it. Thanks
Bob
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The 1.5" sleeve will add around 20 gr to the tip according to my powder scale. Since I have a bunch of 125 gr magnus 2 blades I have basically made them into 145 gr heads.
The fletch cap doesn't affect the arrow any differently than a non capped arrow. I have shot groups with both intermingled and for me they all shot the same.
These videos are for CE 150. If you use a different shaft you will have to find out which size aluminum will work for you. Everything else should be the same though.
If you have tapered shafts I don't believe you can cut off the arrow at the nock end like the CE's. If you can't I don't think you would want to use this method because once the glue sets it is permanent.
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yip just like i do mine! nice videos Pac :notworthy: :clapper:
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Nice videos! Thanks have never done, might have to try it!
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That’s a nice video you have come up with. I did try, to foot a CX250 with a 2117 and found it to be around .010 too small. The CX250s O.D. measured .305. I ended up going with the 2216 and around .006 - .007 slop.
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Blackstick, going by the dimensions, a 2219 should be a perfect fit, .006 smaller ID than the 2216.
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Same way I do mine, the other day, I made a 10yard shot at what I thought was an old rusty one pound coffee can... It turned out to be a rock! My arrow hit so hard, it blew the insert out,never to be found again. But the arrow is still in great shape on both ends. I just installed a new insert and am still shooting that arrow!
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I am going over to my stock of "fixin'" arrows right now!
Killdeer
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In case some of you do not realize the Easton arrow numbers designate measurements. The first 2 numbers are 64ths of an inch outside and the second set of numbers are the wall thickness in thousandths. So a 2216 is 22/64" outside with a .019" wall.
The diameter of the hole inside the alum shaft is the outside dimension of the arrow minus twice the wall thickness.
21/64=.328"
22/64=.343"
Just subtract 2 times the wall thickness of you arrow for the inside dimension.
2115 is .328 O.D.-.030(2x.015" wall)= .298" I.D.
2117 is .294" I.D.
2213 is .317" I.D.
2216 is .311" I.D.
2219 is .305" I.D.
Hope this helps....and check my math :readit:
I have noticed the outside dimensions of carbon arrows are different even if they are the same spine number, especially if they do or do not have a silk screened wood grain or camo on them.
I guess I'm suggesting you measure the carbons before making up the aluminum sleeves.
Rick
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Nice videos Pac :thumbsup:
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Gorilla Gru is cheaper than Gorilla Glue if you happen to run across some while shopping. :)
Glad everyone has liked the videos.
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Great job thanks for sharing. :thumbsup:
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My epoxy died. Can I use Superglue gel?
Killdeer
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Originally posted by Killdeer:
My epoxy died. Can I use Superglue gel?
Killdeer
I don't know about superglue. Only thing I have used is 2 ton epoxy and Gorilla glue. IMO gorlilla glue is the easier of the two to work with. No mixing involved.
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Man, that was a great video there! Thanks a bunch!
I will be using this method for my arrows. I have brass HIT inserts already installed. If I put the glue inside the footing and on the outside of my carbon arrow, I'm gonna be getting glue inside my carbon arrow. Not good!
Do I have to put glue on the inside of the footing too?
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Originally posted by Friends call me Pac:
Gorilla Gru is cheaper than Gorilla Glue if you happen to run across some while shopping. :)
Glad everyone has liked the videos.
Thanks for the video.
Have you tried one using water to activate the Gorilla Glue? I wonder how it would work putting a thin coat on the shaft and just water in the insert. Might expand too much.
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Originally posted by ishoot4thrills:
Man, that was a great video there! Thanks a bunch!
I will be using this method for my arrows. I have brass HIT inserts already installed. If I put the glue inside the footing and on the outside of my carbon arrow, I'm gonna be getting glue inside my carbon arrow. Not good!
Do I have to put glue on the inside of the footing too?
I coat both areas that will make contact. Some goes on the shaft and some goes on the inside of the footing. Slide the footing in place and wipe the excess away with a paper towel.
I don't know if you can foot an arrow with an insert in it already, never tried it. Thinking about it I don't think I can do it to my arrows because the lip of the insert rests on the footing. The idea being with the footing firmly glued in place and the insert lip resting on the footing the insert can not be pushed back into the shaft. Otherwise my footing wouldn't make any difference at all.
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here is a link for different size footings
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=058276
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Great work Pac. Very informative and nicely done.
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Could you put up a link--I can't get this video from here. Thanks
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Pac awesome video, I do everything you do except I don't drop it :p LOL
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Originally posted by Kingwouldbe:
Pac awesome video, I do everything you do except I don't drop it :p LOL
Now that right there's funny! :smileystooges: :p
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Great video!
Ya got me thinking...
I'm lazy in general but I'm picky about fit and finish too and watching you sand the shafts by hand to fit the footing gave me an idea that may help. The deburring tool you used got my mind relating to reloading stuff...
I use the old fashioned hammer operated Lee Loaders for some of my rifle hand loading and in straight wall calibers like pistol ammo and my 45-70, there is a case mouth expander that is used to just barely flare the case mouth for easier bullet insertion. (Hold on moderators, I promise, this IS archery related... :) )
Anyway, somebody posted inside diameters of the aluminum shafting and they were all from .294 to .317" in the 22xx series of aluminums. I'm wondering if a case mouth expander from something in the .30 to .35 caliber would be just the ticket for belling the end of the aluminum shaft. The cool thing is, if any of you have used a Lee Loader you know that it is a hand held "through" type die. The pistol calibers have a built in case mouth crimp ridge inside. The die could easily be slid down the shaft from the nock end and it would contact the lip of the aluminum shaft just like a case mouth. I bet medium hand pressure would be plenty of force to crimp the aluminum footing nicely and remove the "bell" that was put on it initially.
Just had another thought... I'm SURE it will work for footing woodies in the 23/64" class. You would use a .357 die as we all know that a .38 or .357 case makes a perfect fit slip on blunt!
You could actually press fit the aluminum footings onto the shaft which should be even stronger. It would be especially beneficial on wood arrows where consistency of roundness and diameter is not as good as carbons.
Unfortunately, I don't have any of these dies in a size that would work. Does anyone have a pistol die set in 30 to 32 cal for the 22XX size carbon arrow footings? .357 would probably work for 23/64 diameter woodies.
p.s.
If we want to keep the firearms/reloading talk to a minimum, pm me instead of posting it here. I'm all for archery only talk here and so far I think it all pertains enough to satisfy the requirements but I don't want to steer it off course.
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Ok, there's gotta be somebody reading this with the right caliber Lee Loader to verify if it would work.
Any takers?
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This is a great thread. Thought I would brig it back up. Thanks Pac
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This comes at a great time for me....thanks a lot for these videos...
Jason
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I don't know if you can foot an arrow with an insert in it already, never tried it. Thinking about it I don't think I can do it to my arrows because the lip of the insert rests on the footing. The idea being with the footing firmly glued in place and the insert lip resting on the footing the insert can not be pushed back into the shaft. Otherwise my footing wouldn't make any difference at all.
Thanks for the great videos. I've destroyed many of my 2117 shafts while stumping.
In your post you said the insert lip rests on the footing. Does sanding the carbon shaft remove enough material to cause the lip of the insert to overlap the aluminum footing?
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I've used Gorilla glue for other things and have always used water according to bottle directions. It foams and foams while drying. I take it (question) that by applying it as you describe that foaming isn't a problem?? Maybe it's the wayer that makes it foam?
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Looks like a stout arrow--I'm gonna have to make me up some. Good job. :)
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Originally posted by chupa:
In case some of you do not realize the Easton arrow numbers designate measurements. The first 2 numbers are 64ths of an inch outside and the second set of numbers are the wall thickness in thousandths. So a 2216 is 22/64" outside with a .019" wall.
Great info Rick, but I think you meant the outside wall thickness on this example would be .016".
Thanks for the videos Pac. Well done.
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Great video Pac. Been doing mine like this for years. I use leftover Smooth On from my bowmaking. I also epoxy my nocks in so they never pop out.
If you do break a nock you can carefully drill out the old one and replace it.
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Great video Pac. I will be trying your system as every thing is frozen solid around here. Hitting a stump is like hitting a rock right now.........
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that was good .. would/could / should you put a nock ring on a already damaged [wont hold a nock very long] arrow to save it or should i shorten it from that end and refletch?
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Hey Jack, Thanks for bringing this back to the top!
Pac, This is a GREAT Video! Thanks, so much, for taking the time to do it and post it. We used to get quite a few "How To" posts but not as much anymore. This is the way to "Give Back" to tradgang. It really helps the newcomers and old timers alike!! Thanks again!
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Thank's for your time . I'm going to give her a shot !!!!
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will a 2215 work on gt 55/75
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Go to footing alum. by Charlie Lamb
In the how to section. (TradGang)
He has all the footing size figured out for ya.
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sounds like something worth trying alright
Jer bear
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i looked and it says 2216 but i have one 2215 and just wondering if any one has tryed it
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Thanks Pac. Great info.
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Originally posted by woodie4life:
I've used Gorilla glue for other things and have always used water according to bottle directions. It foams and foams while drying. I take it (question) that by applying it as you describe that foaming isn't a problem?? Maybe it's the wayer that makes it foam?
It still expands but after about 30 minutes I use my fingernail to remove the excess glue that expanded.
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Originally posted by boog21:
I don't know if you can foot an arrow with an insert in it already, never tried it. Thinking about it I don't think I can do it to my arrows because the lip of the insert rests on the footing. The idea being with the footing firmly glued in place and the insert lip resting on the footing the insert can not be pushed back into the shaft. Otherwise my footing wouldn't make any difference at all.
Thanks for the great videos. I've destroyed many of my 2117 shafts while stumping.
In your post you said the insert lip rests on the footing. Does sanding the carbon shaft remove enough material to cause the lip of the insert to overlap the aluminum footing? [/b]
I guess so. Never really thought about it before. Just know it works.
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Thanks very much for making these videos, Pac. Never thought to use gorilla glue. I will have to give that a go. Matt
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So, does the glue only foam when it is exposed to water. or will it dry just as well w/o water?
TBRA
By the way GREAT VIDEO! I like the footing on the nock end.
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I use it without water so it won't foam up.
Just make sure you let it set up long enough, around 24 hours or longer.