Trad Gang
Topic Archives => How To - Resources => Topic started by: the Ferret on March 07, 2005, 04:42:00 PM
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Per Kyboy's request...
River cane is a wonderful arrow material for those of us that shoot wooden bows. It grows naturally in a lot of places, is free for the harvesting or can be bought reasonably, is naturally tapered full length,is tough as nails, comes with it's own weather proof protective coating and has good weight. The MAIN problem with river cane is usually it doesn't grow lazer straight and is gonna need a bit of straightening to be suitable for accurate shooting.NO biggie. It is actually VERY EASY to straighten. At first glance it may look intimidating, but maybe it helps to know that there are only 2 places that it might be crooked..in a node or between two nodes. That's it. If you can straight a node or a curve between the nodes you can make straight river cane arrows and the good news is you cure both problems EXACTLY the same. With heat and pressure.
Here is a typical river cane shaft before straightening and I'll admit it doesn't look much like your typical poc arrow shaft at this point
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/ferret-cane/straightencane.jpg)
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Lets tackle the "in the node" problem first. On this shaft if you sight down it like you were looking down a gun barrel you'll see the end past the node dog legs sharply to the right. This problem is actually in the node itself.
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/ferret-cane/straightencane1.jpg)
Here's how we fix that. Turn on your gas stove, coleman heater, propane torch or sit close to the campfire and run that node and a couple of inches on each side of it over the flame back and forth so as not to scorch the wood for maybe 30 seconds or so. The cane should be too hot to hold onto for more than a second at this point.
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/ferret-cane/straightencane2.jpg)
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Ferret, any pics of what this stuff looks like in the wild?
If you're getting it in Indiana, I assume it's growing in IL as well?
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Before I did my first cane, I was afraid of it. After I finished I was amazed at how easy it was. It bends very easy when heated.
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When you have it good and hot, the cane will "soften" and will be pliable. Cane in this condition can actually be bent in a "U" without breaking. Anyhow grab a pot holder or glove so you don't burn your hand and quickly place the node over the butt pad of your thumb (look closely and you'll see the dark node ring) and using the long part of the shaft in your other hand pull the shaft over bending the crook into alignment. Sight down and make sure it's straight and if it 's not a little more heat and a little more pressure should do it.
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/ferret-cane/straightencane3.jpg)
When done it should look like this. Then set aside and let cool.
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/ferret-cane/straightencane4.jpg)
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The other kind of bend is the one between the nodes. This will look like a curve between the nodes. Look at this piece and in the second section back you can see this type of curve
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/ferret-cane/straightencane5.jpg)
We straighten this the same way ...heat the section we want to straighten over the flame, keeping it moving so as not to scorch the wood. When it gets good and hot grab your mitt and again put the bent section over your thumb pad and pull in the direction opposite of the bend, or hold it like you were going to snap a pencil and apply pressure with your thumbs to straighten. Sight down and make sure "that section" is straight. If not reheat and reapply pressure. When straight sit aside to cool.
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/ferret-cane/straightencane6.jpg)
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Making a straight shaft is simply a series of straightening nodes and the curves between the nodes. Be sure and flip the shaft around and check straightness from both ends.
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/ferret-cane/straightencane7.jpg)
And there you have an arrow shaft.
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Rangeball I am in Ohio and it grows here, I know it also grows in Kentucky, North Carolina, Oklahoma and Texas because I have gotten it from all those places. I have a pic of a stand of it somewhere but basically it grows in patches closely clumped together about 12-15 feet high, looks like bamboo, has nodes with sheaths or leaves at each node and grows around waterways. I find it along the Ohio river.
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:(
Have never seen anything around here fitting that description...
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Once again a masterful job Professor Lotz. :bigsmyl: Mac~
What sizes would the ends have to be for workable arrows??
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I keep a stash on the counter by the stove (just counted and there are 17 pieces right now). When I have a few extra mintues I will grab a piece and sight down it. If I see a crooked spot I'll flip on the stove and straighten it. If you look at the second and third pic at the clock, you'll see it took 2 mins to straighten that section incl taking pictures, so in reality maybe a minute to straighten a section. I find that about 6 examinations/straightening sessions will fix any piece of cane I have seen no matter how crooked to start with. Some are done in half that amount of handlings. Once I find no more crooked sections it goes downstairs ready to be plugged or fletched. You can even do this while watching TV.
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Those look like primo shoots, Mickey, care to refer to a sorce for some like those? I have trade material.
R
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Mac...big enough so that I can do a self nock. Tonkin cane is very small in diameter, but river cane is a little larger which I actually like and find the cane I like best to be very similar in size to a tapered shaft that is about 11/32 (.340) mid shaft with the nock end being slightly smaller and the tip end slightly larger.
BTW being tapered full length it flys well from a variety of weight bows.
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Ron try Mike Hames in Oklahoma. He has been a good reliable source for several years,and usually trades a lot of it away at Mojam (another great source) but several guys on here have sent me wonderful cane. Down at KyBoys stump shoot a fellow BJ showed up with a pile and said it grew by him in Louisville.
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Yes, another masterful presentation!! I will have to start looking around here for some of that stuff... seems a fitting shaft for a selfbow :)
Thanks again for all of your pictorials :thumbsup:
Kevin.
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This looks neat and I love the one Dano sent me. Gotta get me some to mess wit, now that I'm messin' with dowels. (In NC, huh? Hmmmm I live just a hoot n' a holler from a river). Some pre quest questions for Mickey (or anyone): 15 to 16 ft? Does that mean you get a number of shafts from one shoot or is most of it too small (or large)? What can you tell us about spine, or do we go native and just keep the good fliers? When do you harvest and how long do you let dry, etc. (This has probably all been covered but repetition may make it sink in.)
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Thanks for the tip, Mickey, I'll follow up on these leads.
R
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Mikey,
So does that meean that you shoot them large end forward? And do you worry about spining or weighing them?
Conlaoch
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Yeah Bernie!! Your going to want to cut cane longer than you need for drying/checking purposes. Cut 1/2" shoots bundle em real tight and let em dry for 6 or 8 months, like any thing else it's worth the wait. ;)
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Thanks, Dano, when do you cut them - summer, fall?
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If we had any here, I'd cut it about now, or at least before it gets too hot. I don't think it really matters when, maybe some of the cane cuttin pros will show up.
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OK found my pics
Here's a batch of wild cane growing
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/ferret-cane/cane3.jpg)
There are male and female stalks....some have sheaths and some have leaves..I forget which is which
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/ferret-cane/cane5.jpg)
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Anyhow you wander around the patch looking for some that might make suitable arrows, cut them and remove the sheaths and leaves
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/ferret-cane/cane1.jpg)
They will be all green like above and crooked like below
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/ferret-cane/cane2.jpg)
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Where do you get yours, Dano? I don't know if it grows here - in this part of NC, yet. Have to ask around. Good pics, Mickey - looks familiar but not sure why or from where.
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Take a dozen and bundle them up together. Some guys face 1/2 one way and 1/2 facing the other way, some bundle them against a broom stick. Once bundled hang them in a dry warm place for about 8 weeks. Some guys get them out periodically, unwrap, straighten and then bundle them back up again. When you get them out again they will be a lighter green but hard. Set them in the sun for a coupleof days and they will turn a golden tan color and will be ready to be straightened.
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/ferret-cane/canedrying.jpg)
Like osage many cut this years now and will get them out to make arrows out of them next spring.
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/ferret-cane/cane6.jpg)
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The female is the one on the right with the flowers. I've been told the female is the best (imagine that) :D I've gotten most of my cane from good friends. Up here we have what's call phragmitis, it does'nt mature like cane or bamboo.
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Here's a good example of just how far river cane can be bent without breaking while hot
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/ferret-cane/cane7.jpg)
Once it cools it will be hard in this shape
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Mickey's a hoot ain't he? :thumbsup:
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My wife tells me there is a woman down the way that says she has cane behind her property where a little drain creek runs. Don't know if it is the right kind but have to check it out. Course she also told our neighbor to be careful as ther were lots of Mocasins back there too. Yikes! Little early for them though - and cool.
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Very nice again Mickey. Is that an egg in the bowl?
Bending those in that shape,makes me think about an ABO croquet set? Nice primitive wickets!
Great job little buddy.:thumbsup:BTW, sent the book today.
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He is that! He needs to be a little careful though - I'm not sure but what it may be agin the law to know so much good stuff!!! :saywhat:
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Yea RB he's a hoot :knothead:
Here's some misc pics with cane
Node reduction
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/ferret-cane/canenodes.jpg)
Nock slot above a node
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/ferret-cane/nockslot1.jpg)
LOL finding all kinds of pics in the stash
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Now there's a good reason to cut it soon :eek: Course you can use the skins too ;)
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Bern..my wife said it would sure be nice if I actually knew something ..in her words..USEFUL! LOL
Here's some river cane arras
(http://www.tradgang.com/rob/ferret-cane/canearrows.jpg)
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Nice arras. LOL - That's probably just a hold over from before she (Di) also got interested in all this archery stuff though, Mickey.
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That looks like phragmites communalis. We have it in spots around here, and I saw a big stand of it in Norfolk or VIRGINIA BEACH, CLINTOPHER. It gets plumes on it in the summertime. I have heard that one should avoid the plumed stalks, and go for the plain ones, as they are stronger. I suppose it depends on the weight of your bow. I also believe that the best time to cut it is late summer, early fall. The plants have achieved their maximum growth, and have not begun decaying and getting battered by winter storms.
Sorry to drag Clint W into this, but he seems to be looking for things to slice and impale himself on, and I am a helpful sort.
Killdeer
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Primitive Croquet tunnels or whatever they are called?? that's a lot of bending...Mac~
Timo, my first thought was an egg but I think it's an orange.
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Dang Mickey ya made that look so easy..... do ya straighten viburnum the same way??..... Terry
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Terry like osage, hickory, river cane and angry wives a little heat and pressure can make a lot of things "malleable" LOL
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Hmmmm!
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gooooooood job there mick!! thanks for all the time you've spent for us and in this pictorial for me , lol thanks again . ky
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Maybe that didn't come out right..they supply the heat and pressure, and we become malleable.
There did I say it right that time Di? Di? Awc'mon hon, I didn't mean anything by it.......
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See if I knew stuff like Killdeer THEN I'd know useful stuff!
phrag something..I think she's right! :D
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:D
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Owwwwhhh! Why'd I get the knothead Graemlin Mickey? [sniff] LOL 'Hoot' means a fun guy to be around! :bigsmyl:
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Oh I know Roy I was making fun of meself! The knothead was for me!
Sorry if you thought that was for you.
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Another great pictorial Mickey. Do you use dowels inside the cane to mount points onto?
Kathy, thanks for always lookin out for me. And you're right, it grows everywhere around here, and I'm always looking for a new way to bleed.
Clint
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Now Mickey,
Instead of trying to get just one or two people addicted.......er... uh ... I mean shown how to make a cane arrow your putting it out there for the whole gang to get addicted...uh I mean started. LOL
Nice Pictoral BTW. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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No, no, no, knothead! :-)... I knew what you were doing. I was grinning real big when I sent that. Just razzing you some and was faking some 'sniffs'. I lost translation in the keyboard .....so send me a 'fer real' knothead.
I liked your deer and turkey pics thread the other day too! I'm feedin' 28 turkeys right now right behind my house...but these ain't for shootin' - just lookin at every day! Mr. & Mrs. Bluebird have been to the box for the past week too. Love them bluebirds.
Mickey I hate to see the picures get stripped out of your (and other) pictorials after they've been on here a few days. Like the black locust one; I didn't get to save them fast enough and theres nothing but little red 'x's in place of the pics. Your pictorials are the big draw card here. :thumbsup:
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Clint..yes there is a feature on my website called 'plugging cane"
http://groups.msn.com/ferretsarcherywebpage/pluggingcane.msnw
but basically in explanation if you place a nock right above a node it won't need plugging, but if not then you must plug it. The tips always need to be plugged. I buy 2 sizes of hardwood dowels at the hardware store I think one is 3/16 for the tip end and can't remember the size on the nock end. Then take drills of appropriate sizes and drill the ends 1" deep for a nock, 1 1/2" deep for a tip and glue them in with tie bond 2 or 3 glue.
Jason, yep trying to get them all addicted!
Oh and to answer a question a few pages back, yes the thick end is the tip end and goes forward.
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Roy I have all the pics on file in a jpeg folder and can send you any ones you want. I did manage to get Rob to save the Osage 101 pics to the Tradgang server or whatever so the pics will always be there. Hey if we lose any pics......I can always make more :bigsmyl:
Clint no reason to bleed with river cane, there is a lot less blood loss with river cane than there is with wild rose :thumbsup: LOL
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Nice pictorial, Mickey. I didn't know if anyone knew, but there are only 2 bamboos(canes) native to the US and both are call river(switch) cane. Arundaneria tecta(average height 5" with a fairly thick wall and small pith) and Arundaneria gigantia(to 10'+ with thin walls and larger diameter pith). Either make good arrows.
Anyone that has read The Witchery of Archery will remember talk about cane breaks that took days to cross.
Today there are other "canes" around that will make good arrows. Mickey, Have you tried the "bambusa"(?) I sent you. I've made a few arrows with it and it's nice to work with.
A little secret I learned with cane. If you use the heavy(spined) side for your cock feather, and leave some extra length, heavy spine canes shoot great from most bows.If you have a cane that shoots differently than others, flip it and shoot it with the cock feather in. Thanks Mick. With the price of shafts coming up, cane and shoots are gonna be sought after. Pat
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:) great tutorial...
Still wondering though about spine..
I've seen some people say they spine em, Ionian says he just weight matches his...
Any recommendations?
Conlaoch
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Pat some of the canes by the stove are the ones you sent me. The bambusa you sent are still slightly green in color even though I had them sitting outside all day Sunday (one of our 2 sunny days we've had since November ha ha).Can you tell me when they were cut? But since I had them unbundled I'd thought I'd do some prelim straightening. They are a nice size. The pith hole is small so that means the walls are thick and they should make real strong arrows, so I take it these must be in the "tecta" family of canes according to what you said above, or is this a non native specie?
I haven't used a "commercial" shaft for about 5 or 6 years now.
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conloach...the cane I get from Mike Hames in Oklahoma is spined,and marked for cock feather although truthfully I pay no attention to his marks. Apparently Pat B above also spines his. I don't spine them OR weigh them, I just make them and shoot them. Like I said they are very tolerant to different weight bows and I have only had 2 shafts in the last 5 or 6 years that I was unhappy with the flight on.
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Finally, something I know IS growing in the woods behind my house (gets a lil'swampy back there). Now while i'm collecting cane, maybe I'll stumble across the rare and elusive osage!
Thanx Mickey, great tutorial.
Rob
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Well if I can't injure myself than I'm not interested.
Seriously though, what OD do you like for the tip end?
Clint
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How picky are you about selecting which cane shoots to harvest for shafting?
Reason I ask is if it grows around here, my brother -in-law will know as he works for an outfit that specializes in wetlands stuff and is out amongst it daily.
I was thinking of just asking him to harvest me a big bundle, full length (assuming it's available) that I can pick through to get a few dozen shafts out of...
If you were gonna take this route, is there anything in particular you would include in the instructions?
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I just cut full length stalks that look like they are big enough to make an arra. When I get them home I clean them up and trim to about 48" length the inner section that is suitable for an arra. After they dry, I spine them on my home made spiner the ones that pass go for my arras and those that are under go for my daughters arras. If they are over spined, a few scrapes with a knife and they come down pretty quick.
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Mickey, The canes I sent you are not a native variety. they are imports from Japan or China. I harvested them just after Christmas from coastal SC. It is a clumping type of bamboo where as the native river canes are spreading types.
One thing that Art Butner, over on the PA site, does is to heat them up(tempering) and then scrapes the rind off and comes up with a nice light brown color. I have scraped the rind on some but left the others with the rind on and they are still a little green but are well dried.
This time of year any of the canes are mature enough to make arrows. Before the first of the year, I wouldn't cut any cane that had the paper sheath on it. Most are immature and will wrinkle when dried. Also with the sheath still on you can't see worm holes and you waste time collecting canes that are useless for arrows. Pat
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Hmmm about 20 minutes per shaft. Now do I reach for an orange or a gumball when I'm done?
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Mickey your fletcher craft is excellent. Like a lot of hand crafts, your skill makes it look easy. Thanks for posting. It almost inspires me to do some more cane. Almost. I got patience reserved solely for tilling I reckon as arrow shaft straighening is... well maddening for me.
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Mickey, Art seals the canes after he scrapes the rind off. His cane arrows are as beautiful as any professional arrowmakers. I wouldn't, personally, scrape the rind off because it adds more work to an already labor-intensive job and isn't necessary. I did try it on a few just to see "what's up". Pat
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/cane2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/cane1.jpg)
I went and grabbed one cane from the place I mentioned earlier in the thread but I have a sneaky suspicion this may be Bamboo (due to the limbs and also the one concave side on each section between nodes) What do you guys think? In any case what do you use to cut the canes (a knife ain't too cool - side loppers maybe?) and how do you get limbs off nicely if this is the right kind? I don't really think it is but if not it may keep others away from it too.
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Kinda looks like bamboo to me Bernie. But I don't know fur sure.
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I'm not sure which specie ya got there Bern, I'll bet Pat B will know, but I'll bet it will make an arrow (althoguh that one looks too skinny to me or those branches are huge). Take the limbs off 1/2 dozen or so and bundle them up to dry and stick them in a warm dry spot. Check on them again in June and see how they look.
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dagone it!! i get it straight and then i try to do a little better and whoooops i should have left it alone , lol , ky
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That is a skinny one, guys - but I just grabbed it for a f'rinstance. It actually is only a little larger than a finished 5/16" arra (at the bottom end of the cane). The canes in the stand are all sizes but a lot of them are pretty good sized, like a bamboo fish pole. I didn't look close enough to see if the concave side is still there on the larger ones or not. It was freezing out there to these ol' bones and the wind was cutting like ice - we were just on the way home from grocery shopping and I stopped and grabbed the one on the way. Someone said get ones about 1/2" in diameter or a little bigger - do they shrink some or do you loose size in taking it "down" for the nodes?
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Bern, You just want to leave extra length on each end for drying/checking reasons, that way you can get a shaft out of some portion of the cane.
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to top fro Bern, Stephen R and Curtis
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Hey gang- try this one on- go out and cut 10,000 shafts-( yes 10,000- we are talking the right size for arrows) - bundle and let dry. River cane is sought after, all over the world, let every one know you have it and sell $1.00 a stick. All they want is a clean shaft. I do this every year. It takes a week of hard labor to cut that much and clean up the shafts- but it is worth it.
Scott Greaves
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i have thought about using it as trading stock or selling it, because i have 4 or 5 miles of creek with river cane so thick you cant walk without pushing it out of your way. i worked on a bundle today, and got four straight shafts out of it. it does make a good lookin arrow!
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Again, thanks are in order Mickey, this is the one I was thinking of in the e-mail I sent to you. Funny what tricks memory (or lack of it) will play on a guy. huh? I will print this rascall out tomorrow - then I'll know where it is (maybe - LOL). Also since I don't have a gas stove (except a Coleman camper type - that might work) have to figure out what I am going to use as my heat source.
(I still want to find a place like Scott G. or Slimpickins are talkin' about - LOL)
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Originally posted by ber643:
(I still want to find a place like Scott G. or Slimpickins are talkin' about - LOL)
Yea me too!
I spotted a big patch yesterday afternoon while we were on ur way to look at a pair of Bald Eagle with fledglings that have taken residence up the street a piece. Dang they are big birds. Anyhow this patch is on private property..actually a farm I used to hunt 25 years ago. Need ot go ask permission to get in there and cut some. I'm sure the original owner has died by now, cause he was really old 25 years ago.
The Coleman stove will work fine and i have even done them over a campfire.
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I got the rascal captured now, be gorra! :thumbsup:
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Thanks again Mickey,Now I got to stop with the bow making and get to making some ammo,dang deer season gonna be here before I get everything done.LOL
Stephen