Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: OkKeith on March 12, 2018, 08:47:00 AM
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Hey Guys-
I have jacked around in canoes and small boats all my life. From the creeks, rivers and reservoirs where I grew up on the Arkansas River near Tulsa, OK to my years with the USF&WS, and my time with our State Dept. of Wildlife Conservation and Water Resources Board.
I have hunted out of canoes in several states near home, mostly AR and MO. About six years ago I messed up and bought a SOT kayak... man, talk about a growing obsession I have now. My fleet is at two canoes and three kayaks. I also have two of the inflatable nine foot pontoons with the deck on back for gear that row great. There is even a homemade plywood pirogue in the weeds behind my folks barn I built one weekend. Yup... I got a thing for small boats.
Spring is a good time to talk about boats, right? I have been scouting some Public Land turkeys I plan to chase with my bow. They are in about 350 acres that if the rain is right, will be cut off from the land side access when the creek gets up and the oxbow floods. Primitive camping is allowed so the planned adventure is to load up the Old Towne and slide down river to a decent spot and make forays into the parcel with hip boots or waders when needed. I realize its not chasing Moose in the Yukon or Sheep in B.C. but it sounds like a fun adventure that fits between a Thursday night and supper time on Sunday.
I would like to hear from any of ya'll who hunt from row or paddle craft. A story is great. Some tips or tricks would be wonderful. Gear suggestions are always welcome and photos of your rig would be fantastic.
I appreciate your thoughts and suggestions. I will see if I can post some photos of my rigs as well.
OkKeith
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I used to use a Hobie Pro-Angler with the peddle mirage drive. I fly fish so that was a great kayak. I'm picking up an Outback model this year.
It was nothing to take a climber or pop-up blind to a spot and trasnport a deer out. The peddle drive is fantastic. You have less room to load out vs a canoe, but it can be done.
If you like a small boat check out a pro-angler. It's really a nice fishing rig that will double as a game hauler.
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Small craft are awesome,especially if you use them. I have often launched on a lake or stream to be able to get just a bit farther, or quieter, o to an area that you just can't get to any other way. Used to do this a fair amount in a marsh that I hunt. Float in quietly to near the back end, and float the deer back out if you get one.
Although I like sit IN kayaks, you ( ok... I) just cannot get in and out of them under a lot of conditions whereas a canoe or a SOT kayak makes that go away. Man they are light weight though.
I really like to paddle and it seems that shallow areas might hinder that mirage drive ( no experience, just thoughts at this point) but the first time you try to set out rigs to troll for salmon or walleye etc you realize that a foot drive has its place in the arsenal.
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Sounds like a good idea. Have done that sort of thing for deer many years ago.
I like canoes for the purpose as well. Can get more in them, and easier to get into and out of, etc.
I used to do a lot of float hunting on small creeks for ducks. I was always surprised at the bucks I discovered bedded right on the creek banks, as well as a number of deer feeding in the water. Certainly could have shot a few had I been toting a bow rather than a shotgun. Always said I'd go back during deer season, but never did, primarily because I had other good areas to hunt. Still time, I suppose.
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I used to do a lot of river paddling. In everything from SOT kayaks to whitewater catarafts to canoes. For ease of use and have room for gear I always preferred a good canoe. I paddled a OT 119 that I done a lot of modifications to, and it was probably my favorite. I like the open room a canoe affords.
(https://i.imgur.com/c2iQE2K.jpg)
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I use a sit in kayak to hunt hogs, turkey, and deer. Its the best way to hunt public ground I use because a motor would "drown" the sound of leaves being scratched or rooted, squeals, gobbles etc...
I have often drifted into bow range of deer and hogs. They look right through me as though I'm a floating log.
The Tegris by Native Weighs 29 lbs. I use it on slack water, and have floated class 2 shoals, but wouldn't want anymore challenge than that because of its low sides.
Camping is very doable in this type hybrid kayak\\canoe because capacity is 400 lbs.
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I use a sit in kayak to hunt hogs, turkey, and deer. Its the best way to hunt public ground I use because a motor would "drown" the sound of leaves being scratched or rooted, squeals, gobbles etc...
I have often drifted into bow range of deer and hogs. They look right through me as though I'm a floating log.
The Tegris by Native Weighs 29 lbs. I use it on slack water, and have floated class 2 shoals, but wouldn't want anymore challenge than that because of its low sides.
Camping is very doable in this type hybrid kayak\\canoe because capacity is 400 lbs.
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My hunting canoe is a kevlar Mad River Explorer with the black end inserts. When we hunt a couple of areas that we access with canoes, going up stream in the afternoon and come out after dark going down stream. It is easier to go up stream by running on the upstream flow side of the whirl pooling on the river we run. Adding a deer to canoe is a load equal to packs on a Canadian canoe trip. i have killed a few ducks with a bow drifting down stream out of canoed. One was a passing shot, all the rest were water swatted or right at take off. Ducks tend back into out of the current corners, while geese tend to hang out on the sandbars. I have never used the canoe to pursue turkeys and I am not going turkey hunting this spring, I am heading for Canada with my Seliga in May for some wilderness camping and fishing for walleyes and lake trout.
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I'm new to it but just got a kayak last year and used it to get to a spot to chase bear. It was a fun adventure which you'll have to wait to read in the Oct/Nov TBM. At least that's when I've been told it will be published. How's that for a Tradgang strung-out huntin' story?
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I’ve been slowly reacquainting myself with piloting a canoe. The peace that is paddling up and down a creek or along the lake shore is so beautiful. I’ve been trying to use my 1950’s Grumman Aircraft aluminum canoe to access my hunting areas around the lake. It’s been a blast so far but no luck yet.
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Always loved canoes! Especially the 13-14ft solo boats made from Royalex. I use them to hunt a lot of the wildlife refuge and management areas here for deer. They also get used for the occasional bowfishing trip and frog giggin'!
One of the most fun things you can do is hunt squirrels from one. Float quietly down the narrow creeks late in the evening, and get some close shots at them. They come to the edge of the water to grab nuts that wash up on the bank. Better have good balance, or a heavy cant on the bow!
Here's some various pics of my past and present fleet.
The green one is a Wenonah Fusion 13' 45#
The tan one is a Wenononah Vagabond 41#
The red one is Dagger Reflection 15' my girlfriends boat for "our" trips lol. I installed a middle seat and it works great as a solo for carrying a heavy load. Weighs 56#. Amazing older canoe, buy one if you ever see one for sale. They are a great "do-anything" boat.
The Fusion got sold as it was just too short and the seat too low for using a canoe paddle. i hate kayak paddles so that was a dealbreaker for me. I still have and love the Vagabond and Reflection.
Wenonah Fusion:
(https://i.imgur.com/9i84EwRl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wrNnoSFl.jpg)
Wenonah Vagabond:
(https://i.imgur.com/oXoCbBUl.jpg)
Dagger Reflection 15:
(https://i.imgur.com/SQs5zm7l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7kjFOm9l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Nd5vROul.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wPH8Jh0l.jpg)
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I have a Nativecraft 16' open hybrid kayak, tandem. You can remove the front seat and load it with gear and or a deer, paddles well with a foot operated rudder and is a great boat. If you travel light to guys could go hunting in it.
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The lady is holding the bent shaft backwards. Bent shaft paddles are designed so the blade is more vertical at the end of the stroke. With our longer tripping canoes and bent shaft paddles, we find that a combination of pitch and yaw strokes are faster and save energy, especially if the back seat paddler tends to over power the front seat paddler. Paddling on opposite sides of the canoe the front seat paddler does a yaw stroke, power face partially angled towards the canoe, while the back seat paddler employs a variable pitch stroke, power face away from the canoe. Our cruising speeds when canoe tripping with our Wenonah Minnesota 2s and 3 was about 5 mph. With my Seliga it is about 4 mph. With fast Wenonah canoes racing tempo, we were much faster, but racing and enjoying are two different things.
You all know when the first canoe race happened. That was the day primeval man built the second canoe.
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Nice canoes, but KILLER Bronco!
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Originally posted by pavan:
The lady is holding the bent shaft backwards. Bent shaft paddles are designed so the blade is more vertical at the end of the stroke. With our longer tripping canoes and bent shaft paddles, we find that a combination of pitch and yaw strokes are faster and save energy, especially if the back seat paddler tends to over power the front seat paddler. Paddling on opposite sides of the canoe the front seat paddler does a yaw stroke, power face partially angled towards the canoe, while the back seat paddler employs a variable pitch stroke, power face away from the canoe. Our cruising speeds when canoe tripping with our Wenonah Minnesota 2s and 3 was about 5 mph. With my Seliga it is about 4 mph. With fast Wenonah canoes racing tempo, we were much faster, but racing and enjoying are two different things.
You all know when the first canoe race happened. That was the day primeval man built the second canoe.
She was just resting, she does a lot more "sightseeing" than paddling most of the time, LOL. She's actually pretty efficient when she wants to be.
But at least I can get her to go with me. Well, when it's not too cold, or windy, or hot, or snakey or...... ;)
That sounds scootin in the tripping canoes! I'm jealous cause i just have little fat boats :biglaugh: Always wanted to have a nice long Kevlar tandem but never have anybody to tag along. Those are some nice rigs you have, bet those are fun!
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Originally posted by mahantango:
Nice canoes, but KILLER Bronco!
Hey thanks bud! Other than freshening up the original engine a couple years ago, it's been on the road regularly for the 25 years we have owned it. 3 speed column shift, manual steering and brakes.
Found a Bear Razorhead in the defrost vent when i was 14 and it got me interested in bowhunting. Been downhill ever since lol!
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Great posts Guys! Keep them coming...
I have the Old Towne Discovery 115 with the rowing kit on it. That puts a seat in the middle and two sets of oar locks. I can row from the back with two in the boat or swap ends and row from the other end if I am by myself. I row forward like a drift boat much more often than rear-facing like a row boat. This is the rig I plan to use for the float in turkey hunt. I could use my kayak but if I want to take my dutch oven and a few other heavier amenities the canoe hauls a better load.
Bowhunt Turkeys in the morning, slide back to camp for second breakfast, hit a few logjams for some crappie then back into the woods in the afternoon.
Anyone have any photos of canoes/kayaks loaded down with game?
OkKeith
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OkKeith, that sounds amazing. I may never come home!
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Used to. My good friend and bowhunting mentor and I used to boat (a bateau I made) across a lake that had swamps to either side for unpressured whitetail hunting.
We'd set up camp for four days to a week and hunt the unaccessable side of that lake. Pre-dawn we'd boat to our spots (one dropped off and the other rowed - later electric motor - off to his spot) and meet up again for lunch and after dark to go back to camp.
Some great times.
(https://i.imgur.com/rLIy7JAl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sl4ZqFel.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7sUuj2Wl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TtAZl4cl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GNPlkY5l.jpg)
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Chase-
I think my only limitation to staying forever would be at some point I would run out of supplies for making biscuits and gravy.
Charlie-
Those are fantastic photos! That's a neat looking wooden boat. I have made a few plywood boats. Several out of the "Making the Seven Hour Canoe" book and a couple of plywood prams (mostly to use as drag shells for duck hunting).
“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.”
― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows
(Except Traditional Archery, or fly fishing, or maybe bow building. I think my HOBBY is having HOBBIES!)
OkKeith
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This the closest pic I have of a canoe loaded down with game. Limbshaker, finding people to go on canoe trips is easy, but you want to make sure they are on the same page as you and know how to paddle big Canadian and Minnesota lakes in the wind. I would bet I see as many women as men on our BWCA and Quetico trips. Warning, it is addictive. the place to start is BWCA.com and Bill Mason, the place to contact is Williams and Hall outfitting, take the pretty girl on a canoe trip, she will love it. (https://i.imgur.com/MVLuy9P.jpg?1)
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Kansas Public Land selfbow doe, a great day!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/bluegill68/Picture207.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bluegill68/media/Picture207.jpg.html)
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I've been canoeing all my life. I currently own 3 boats.
A 16 foot Wenonah royalex Rogue, a 17 foot kevlar Wenonah, and a 14 foot Mohawk whitewater canoe.
A couple of suggestions on choosing or rigging a boat. I'd want one (if it's a tandem boat) that the seats are oriented to the thwarts so I can sit backward in it for solo paddling. It's better, when solo paddling a tandem boat, to sit in the front seat and face the rear. That puts your weight closer to the middle of the boat. Sitting in the rear without having the weight of a partner in front doesn't work as well as facing rearward. Some canoes, like my kevlar boat, has a thwart directly behind the front seat...can't face backward in that boat.
Also, get a high quality yoke pad. The canoe will fell a lot lighter when carrying solo with a padded yoke.
And learn proper technique. For a long time, my wife and I just blundered our way along. We couldn't make the canoe do some of the amazing things that canoes can do. And our maneuvering left a lot to be desired. A trip on a shallow rocky stream usually include a lot of bickering and finger-pointing. We had little idea how to read current and eddies so paddling upstream was all but impossible.
Then we joined a paddle club and enrolled in some clinics. It's amazing what a skilled paddler can do in a canoe. One club member could paddle UP class 3 rapids because he used eddy lines. He could also roll his solo canoe just like a kayaker. He also ran waterfalls with that boat. He is an incredible paddler. My wife and I aren't that good but we can now put our boat where we want it. Canoeing is a lot more fun when you have a few skills.
The books...Path of the Paddle, and Paddle Your Own Canoe are excellent. I highly recommend them.
Another good book is The Complete Wilderness Paddler. It's a how-to book that is based on a wilderness trip that 4 guys took on the Moise River in Northern Canada. The river had never been run before. Those guys were true adventurers that faced some big challenges. It's a very entertaining book.
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Rule number one with canoe partners, if they think there is nothing learn, leave them behind. Once on the Upper Iowa, I heard a cliff fell across the river. I borrowed a bent 15' aluminum canoe and took a motor cycle friend and my brother, who thought there was nothing to learn and would not take instruction. The river was a bit high, there were some higher than normal standing waves. My brother would do the exact opposite thing every time. I kicked him out of the front seat and put Mark who wanted to learn everything about everything. Then we had fun playing with the river with the fully loaded little boat. When we stopped on a gravel bar for lunch and the opportunity for me to sneak off into the woods to dig a little hole and "kill a snake". My brother said, "I know what I did wrong I want to paddle again." When we got to the fallen cliff, it was really something and river was gorging around it, creating a tremendous noise. My brother panicked started doing a wild flay of rapid sweep stroke as we need the rock pile. The river caught the canoe and we shot down the steep drop backwards. We stayed up right. The worst rapids i ever ran. We were the first to run it. Marky says 'that was cool, it's do it again." I ordered my brother together his paddle out of the water, we beached on the down current side. There about 20 people on the rock slide to help unload. We hauled the canoe over the rock pile empty and me and Mark ran the nasty rock water slide properly. "Let's do it again." Then everyone was lining up to shoot through it. Some made it and some got wet, but a party broke out and nobody died. There is lots of public land along the Upper Iowa that can be accessed from the river, but one would need a pick up on the down stream end.
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Pavan-
THAT is a gorgeous fish! I really like that well used Duluth Pack right in front of you as well. I would love to have one for canoe and kayak hunting trips but GEEZE are they pricey! I have several dry bags but they are the usual bright colors that just look garish stowed in the canoe. I usually cover them up with an old piece of canvas. I know pure aesthetics are rarely functional but it hurts my eyes (and my soul) to stare at that bright rubber all day. Your adventure with the newly formed river element sounds wild! I have heard that sometimes tandem kayaks and canoes are called "Divorce Boats". Hard to divorce family. My wife and I have never really run any fast water in our canoes. We had a vintage Old Towne Trapper canoe (my all time favorite, it met with a grizzly end when it tangled with a 20mph out-of-control Jeep). We did deal with some pretty rough lake conditions in it a couple of times.
Sean-
That looks like a TBH cover shot! I bet that was a fantastic hunt. How did the boat handle with the load?
Tom-
I have the Paddle Your Own Canoe book but will look to add the others to my library for sure. I'm not a big YouTube user but the CanoeTV and KayakTV channels have some very instructive videos on paddle strokes and canoe maneuvering techniques. I have learned a lot from them. Unfortunately all of my practical canoe experience has been learned from doing it wrong several times first (I imagine there is still an old Mowhawk pinned against a lay down in Missouri's Mulberry River, it didn't go back home with me anyway).
I occasionally listen to the Hunt Talk Radio Podcast. I just finished one where the host had a conversation with someone from Orion coolers. They are manufactured by the same company that makes Jackson Kayaks. The guest had just completed a kayak-in archery hunt (with wheel bow unfortunately) on public land in Tennessee. I watched some of the videos and its interesting.
Keep bringing the posts! This has been great.
OkKeith
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Most people on BWCA trips that go through outfitters, rent everything. if the only time one is going to use a Minnesota 2 canoe is on a Bdub trip once every few years, renting makes sense, same could be considered for the packs. I have been on 48 Quetico trips and a number BWCA trips, so it is cheaper for me to own my gear. Buy Duluth packs when you are young, they never wear out, just need to get the liner bags every few years.
Fly fishing for smallies in Quetico can be hazardous to your wallet. I have some really nice bass bugs, they can catch lots of big smallies, but northerns will race to the scene to be the first one to rip it off your leader.
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Nice fish and very informative thread.
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I'm enjoying following this thread! Great pictures! My son and I paddled Isle Royale in Lake Superior last summer and plan to paddle the BWCA this year or next.
(http://i.imgur.com/hJ9sH0l.jpg)
Sunset on Lake Richie, Isle Royale
(http://i.imgur.com/Jmgy1pi.jpg)
Heelin' on Lake Le Sage
(http://i.imgur.com/SP9aEVR.jpg)
Found some nice sheds and got to see the pair he was currently wearing the next morning as he fed across the cove
(http://i.imgur.com/jGuaAOg.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GB783wb.jpg)
I would like to buy a canoe to use solo for downriver hunting trips and have been thinking about a 15 or 16 ft. Prospector. Anyone have a recommendation?
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If it will only be used for solo there are lots of options. If you want to sometimes use it for tandem the choices get a little less, you will want a symmetric canoe. How much it is going to contact rocks and gravel can influence your choice as well. For a combination of toughness and weight Souris Rivers 16" Prospector and 16" Quetico are good. My hunting canoe is the 16' 4" Madriver Explorer Kevlar with the stem and stern black inlay pads. It was $2500 many years ago when it was last made. I bought it for $500, It hit a steel dock support that was sticking up and they punched a small hole in it. A dab of fiberglass and epoxy and it was good to go. It is a great hauler with a load in big waves, but it is not as fast in the healed position as a Prospector. I use an extra long kayak paddle when I use as a solo. A Pal model would be just about perfect, but only a couple of companies make the Pal layup.
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Thanks pavan. I looked at the Souris River Prospector and it looks like a very nice boat. I noticed it has 4" of rocker whereas the Wenonah or Nova Craft have 2.5" of rocker. I wonder which one is closest to the original prospector design? For versatility I want a boat that can be paddled solo from the bow seat so it can be used tandem as well. You got a great deal on the Mad River. I have three points for Iowa and would like to try float hunting the Upper Iowa you mentioned.
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Gary-
Great pictures. I would love to have several days in a season to chase the owner of those sheds with my bow.
OkKeith
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The four inch is more the same as the original prospector. The 2.5" would be more like the Pal model. We test paddled the 16 Souris River Prospector, I liked it, my wife hated it. You need to know your strokes with it. We never run aggressive white water, but we do take on big waves more often than I would like on some trips. There are not many Nova Craft outlets in the country. Some Prospector copies act like they want to roll on their sides and dump you out. I paddled a wood canvas prospector from the original lines. They had a nice firm spot that would settle to, but get to that firm reserve spot rather quickly when the boat was empty.
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I used to build the Prospector in wood and canvas, and agree with Pavan re the rocker, closer to 4 inches depending on where you measure it. The prospector is really a boat for heavy loads/tripping. It's a deep boat, about 15 inches. Not a lot of fun to paddle, solo, IMO. Sure you can lay it over on its side and paddle from near the center of the boat solo, cut not terribly comfortable or fast that way.
Because of it's rocker, it is quite maneuverable, which makes it a good river boat, and the rocker and extra depth handle heavy water very well. It would be my number one choice if I were going moose hunting for a couple of weeks.
For a deer hunt, I'd use one of the smaller wood and canvas canoes I own. I prefer the quietness and beauty of a w/c canoe. Just seems more fitting with trad gear. But, if money is no object, you might consider a Northwind Phoenix or Solo in Kevlar. Extremely light and durable. Big enough to carry you, your gear and a deer. Rather narrow, but still maneuverable. Not really a beginner's boat though.
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Finally got back from Washington DC after a four day weather delay!
Managed to get out and do some scouting in the area of the float in turkey hunt I have planned. I ran into the local Game Warden and he has put a crimp on my plans. He says that all State Hunting Properties MUST be accessed by authorized access points ONLY. He agreed that the float in would be a great way to get in there but as it stands its not allowed.
He is going to look into if I can request a special exception letter or something. As it stands right now... its a no go as planned.
OkKeith
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I love canoe hunting. It just adds a fun dimension and can really extend your hunting. I had one hunt last year where the temps were dropping and I had to do a quite a bit of ice breaking to get home...
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I hunt the lakes and rivers out of my Native Ultimate 14.5 or an Old Town Pak canoe. The Ultimate is a lot more stable and roomy, but I really enjoy the 12' Pak Canoe.
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Paul- That's a good looking boat.
I'm still a no go on my float in turkey hunt. Game Warden says the "official access" rule stands for now. Season starts this weekend. In lieu of my float hunt, I think I may go out west and hunt the sage brush country in the Oklahoma Panhandle. I think I will take the kayak and float some of the creeks WITHIN the WMA boundary.
Wind is blowing 25-35mph right now! I hope the weather settles some.
OkKeith
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Keith, Did you ask the game warden where this rule regarding access is written? I have looked through the 2018 OK hunting regulations and can't find anything that could be interpreted as such.
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Quetico is my "Heaven" ;)
Love everything about it . The remoteness , solitude , wilderness , lakes , wildlife , "fishing" , method of travel , and even the power she possess and shows with athority via her powerful storms .
Canoe travel is the perfect travel , and wilderness canoe camping is a perfect life for those serching solitude ....
For a rock solid do it all canoe capable of hauling "Heavy loads" tandem a old roya [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ You are not allowed to view attachments ] lex Dagger Legend 16'er is hard to beat . Tough , handles big waves with ease , and can handle moose sized loads .. cons...shes a dog on flat water and heavier than kevlar by a long shot .
Old town camper is another fine design and a little better for solo usage ....I actually even really like the handling of a alumacraft 17QT for lake travel and slightly lighter than the old royalex offerings .
After suffering a good back injury and getting older I finally made the move to kevlar ...Love it ! Picked up a used Wenonah Rendezvous kevlar 15'10" designed for River tripping that will carry a good load , is excellent 2ndary stability , and actually tracks pretty darn good on lakes with a good J stroke . I have only hunted smallies and other aquatic creatures ....but a good solid deep canoe for tripping is most likely going to be a good solid canoe for the same with hunting land animals .
Like with bows , "Nothing" triumps hands on try before you buy ...
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Sorry about that ...looks like I made a mess of that post .
Must have stutter typed with the picture entry :biglaugh:
That happens when I get to talking Quetico-fishing-wilderness-canoes-bows and arrows ;^)))