Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Bowwild on February 19, 2018, 04:26:00 PM
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I haven't posted here as much lately. Mainly because I haven't been shooting my recurves much for about a year.
About a year ago my ring finger of drawing hand starting hurt a lot. X-rays show bad arthritis and no cartilage in the two joints of that finger above the palm. Then a ganglion cyst grew out on the side of the 2nd knuckle, just above the ring. Stiff, painful, and hurts most upon release of the string. Had to go to silicon wedding ring and from size 8 to 10 in that.
I don't want to quit shooting my curves. I can't switch hands, I did that in 1996 and I won't go back to RH shooting.
This afternoon I put a D-loop on the string of my favorite Blacktail (I know, Norm might want to return my money if he sees this :) ). It is a very high tech release aid, I think a Lucky from Carter. It felt very awkward but no pain. The sight picture is foreign. My windage was perfect, and vertical grouping was tight (short range- 7 yards so I don't miss and put holes in home interior). But the bow is noisy and vibration is quite a lot, or at least it seems so.
But, the best thing, I can tell if I keep at it, this will probably save hunting with the recurve for me.
There has to be better releases than the back motion or index finger I'm using? I'm thinking something around the wrist with a strap on the string? Any ideas? I'll do a search here as well.
Oh, I've been to the hand surgeon about the finger. Got a shot (steroid?) and drained the cyst. The shot was absolutely horrible, I was to weak to stand for 30 minutes afterwards. Shot helped for about 45 days. I'm not doing it again. Surgeon says joint replacement next but motion will be lost and reduction in pain and stiffness isn't guaranteed.
Thanks
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Nothing wrong with shooting a release. There are quite a few "closet" release shooters hanging around. LOL I'd go with a wrist strap loop style. Like a Scott.
Going to take a whole new tune on the bow though. Very little paradox from the release and the D loop is centered on the arrow so the tiller is messed up.
An ILF rig may be in your future.
Mike
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Man Roy that sounds like a bummer. On the bright side the release allows you to shoot again. It sounds like some time spent messing around with it ( the release aid ) and you will be good to go ! Best wishes :thumbsup:
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On the LW site there was a guy making a traditional release aid called the "Talon" that used a nylon strap that you curled around the string like a tab.
it had a wrist strap that distributed the weight to your wrist and off the fingers. Seemed to work good and a lot of people claimed it helped them remain active in shooting.
Probably can google and pull up information. I even think Bob Morrison was selling them.
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Here is my suggestion, use two nock points and use a tru fire "lobo" or magnum release below the bottom nock point. These use your thumb and rotate. This is how i learned to shoot compounds in the early 90's. I like ball type jaws vs. caliper type jaws, so not to damage serving.
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You may consider trying two under.
Scott Anzak went seemingly undefeated for 10 years shooting 70+ pounds utilizing two under.
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For what it's worth I have been shooting a release with my recurve and even bought a little kids compound to help me draw my bows, shoulder issue has limited my drawing ability. I want to get the shoulder fixed but mri freaked me out. I find that the release or angle of the draw using a release has given me more shooting time which I have found very enjoyable. I am shooting a wrist strap release. Good luck.
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Great thinking Friend! I have a buddy who is a good shot, who shoots 2 under. Tiller isn't affected
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I had my middle finger base joint come unglued when doing long holds when shooting a 96 pound longbow. It took years to heal. I bought a caliper release wrist strap duber and a recurve. I needed to add a kisser button to gain a better anchor. i positioned it to be at the spot my index finger contacted my cheek when shooting normal split finger with the middle finger just back of the corner of my mouth. That worked for targets, but I found it too clumsy for the way I hunt, so I went left handed. I could always shoot left handed, that was not an issue for me. Walking left handed with a back quiver through sticks was a difficult learning curve. Eventually my right hand misddle finger cured enough that I can shoot right handed again, as long as do not get carried away. I dropped my bow weight to less than 60 pounds, shoot 30 arrows or less in continuous shooting, and no longer practice long holding times. I shoot a few ends right handed and a few ends left handed, to a total of less than 100 shots a day right handed and sometimes as many as 300 shots a day left handed. I shoot dual shooter longbows as my go to bows. Oh, back to the subject. Without the kisser button to give me a consistent anchor I was shooting 9" groups at 20 yards at targets. With the kisser button tagging a familiar spot on my face and my thumb behind my jaw bone, I worked it back to a more normal soft ball size group, but it was a very slow shot process tempo.
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I shoot two under with a talon. It is a wrist assisted tab. The talon takes about 80% of the draw weight off your fingers. I previously shot split, and there was very little learning curve. I don't believe the gentleman is still selling them, but if you know someone with a sewing machine it should be easy to make one.
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I shoot two under with a talon. It is a wrist assisted tab. The talon takes about 80% of the draw weight off your fingers. I previously shot split, and there was very little learning curve. I don't believe the gentleman is still selling them, but if you know someone with a sewing machine it should be easy to make one.
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Here a video of the original "Talon" traditional release aid
I believe he has modified it to use 3 under.
https://youtu.be/hiOPwtlyd_I
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Sadly, in most anything there is dogma. Use a release aid and don’t think rwice about it.
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Thanks for all this advice.
I shot 3-under since 2010. I tried 2 fingers today. Pretty tough on those 2 without #3.
I'm going to research this talon.
Thanks
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I still have that mechanical release, if you want give it try, let me know, I have no use for it. It is an older model like this one http://www.lancasterarchery.com/scott-wildcat-2-release-black.html
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I think the Talon is the way to go for you, especially since it almost works like a thumb ring/ thumb glove but without the string on the fingers. As you saw in the video, your ring finger is not even involved a bit in the release process. If you have that arthritis, it is probably not a good idea to put more strain on the other fingers, as their joints probably already are detoriated, but not as far as the ring finger yet.
As long as there are medical reasons for using mechanical aids, I don't know who should have a problem with that. And there are a myriad of traditional and historical documented releases on youtube. Some dating back thousands of years.
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I used a Wison Strap tab with my target bows, I beefed up the strap much like the Talon so I could shoot a 42 pound bow with it. It eventually affected my thumb, although I was shooting many arrows in a session with it. Maybe, I was pinching harder than I needed to. The first time I shot with one of those three finger Hotshots, I argued that i didn't want to do it, but the guy insisted that I would like it. I drew back his compound aimed, then aimed some more, then released. The arrow went skidding across the floor, the Hotshot, banged off the bow and stuck in the ceiling tiles.
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Also research Frank Eichholz's creation back in the day I think it was called the bow lock. His patent pictures were printed on one of the sites, cannot recall which but you can build one from the pix. It is a simple block of wood.
I imagine it takes a bit to learn how to use it safely, but he used it on heavy bows quite a bit.
I have a rendition that I made that I will be glad to send to you if you wish.
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Sent you a PM
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OUCH!
I had tendonitis develop in the ring finger of my right hand and it felt like a cattle prod hit me when I released... hand doc said there are tiny guides like a fishing rod that run up the finger and if you pull them loose, it's major surgery...
Apparently, the GUIDES swelled and the tendon couldn't slide up and down like line thru a rod guide.
He shot cortosone in the finger area and it helped...I shot 2 under for 2+ yrs with no visible change in style or impact.
Tried split again after 2.5 yrs and been doing it again for the past 7-8 yrs now.
Bob Morrison told me during that period that he had to use a rope release for a while for some reason...
Now it's arthritis in the shoulders and back that play havoc with drawing and shooting...
Gettin older ain't for sissies!
Good luck and prayers for a solution!
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I did the release thing a few years ago just to be able to get to full-draw due to TP.
I used an index finger release that had a wrist strap. I actually had three nock sets on my string,one to slide the release up under and the other two maybe three-quarters of an inch above that.(one above and one below the nock to hold the arrow in place on the string) You need to use snap-on nocks to do this.
I'd anchor the release at the base of my cheek bone, and because the arrow is above the release, the shaft is closer to your eye, which helps in your accuracy.
I found that for tuning, moving the lower nock set will aid in dialing in your point of impact. When I shot that way, I was surprised that I needed to go with a weak arrow, spine-wise. But that was with a longbow that wasn't cut to center.
I hope this helps you to continue enjoying your archery. While my disability was between my ears and yours is in your finger, I think this system will work for you. Feel free to contact me with any questions. Good luck!
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I have a lil goose release the I clip in under my nock it works fantastic,,just try a release,it WILL work fine,,.
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I put one of those release loops on my bow string, works as a nocking point, is replaceable, and saves the bowstring serving from contact wear. I checked out my old mechanical it seems to be working fine. You can borrow it for as long as you want. I don't want any money for it.
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I changed the title to this post. I titled it poorly and made it look like the thread was better suited for "concern" forum. Moderators and Admin folks were very understanding.
Pavan, thanks for that offer. I actually have, in a dusty old drawer a trigger release like that but with a spring trigger (to aid with surprise release).
I'm going to try the strap idea provided above.
Thanks
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That Talon is an interesting release! Good luck in Ding a solution Bowwild!
Bisch
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If you're up for a challenge and you have the money for a new bow, go the Joel Turner route with the thumb release. Just a suggestion. I think the release would be much faster and quicker, though.
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One of the posters is sending me a Talon to try. I also watched a few youtube videos about thumb rings. Funny, I never paid any attention to those devices, until now.
I cut the finger off an old glove, stuck it on my thumb. Then I shot a 20 pound bow. This actually feels better (more natural?) than the full mechanical release. So, I ordered a thumb ring from 3Rivers a few hours ago.
One thing I can assure you, I'm going to pull out all the stops, except for going back to RH shooting (I'm Left-eye dominant) to keep shooting my blacktails! Doesn't matter much at all to me how I get that string to anchor and make a quality release, as long as it keeps me hunting with my curves.
If I like this thumb ring route, I'm going to order one from the German fellow who's product I saw on youtube. Oh, I thought tabs were easy to misplace, drop, etc. The thumb ring will be a challenge to keep found.
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A thumb ring is small so order a few.
Keep one on your keyring, one on a necklace or lanyard if you wear one, hang one from your rearview mirror or gear shifter, and tie one to your quiver or bow. I imagine they come in bright colors, maybe that'll help.
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By all means, use the release. It will allow you to continue shooting, which is most important. Good luck with it.
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Bowild check your e-mail's.Thnaks
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I received the thumb ring from 3Rivers and two Talon 3 wrist straps. I bought one of the Talons and am sending the loaner back. Thanks Steve and J.
The Thumb Ring works but I like the feel of the Talon better.
I've shot it (Talon) some with a 20 pound bow and my 46# Blacktail a little. The Talon is a bit tricky for me to get adjusted so my wrist is holding the draw weight instead of my finger and thumb. I can't pull the 46# to anchor with just pinching the strap, have to use the wrist as designed. I didn't trust it at first so I was only 5-6 feet from the butt! Arrow falls off the string sometimes because I twist the string while setting the strap. Growing pains.
I do see some promise here though. Painless which is nice. Have to start over though in a lot of areas; new anchor, new aiming technique, and more than likely different tune. But, that's better than just having to remember to dust the bows off!
Thanks for all the advice and help.
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Where did you buy that talon 3?
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Roy,
Hope it is a winner for you, I may need to take my own advice down the road.
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Years ago there was a release made called the Howard release, it was so simple. Looks like it was made out of a side wall from a tire. The thing wrapped around the string and your held it with pressure from your thumb. You simply let up the pressure from your thumb. A bunch of us in Northern Wi used them. I wish I had kept a few of them, but there might be some out there. In total it was about 4 inches long,totally made of rubber.
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Bowwild, I wouldn't hesitate to use a release. I hope it works for you. I've noticed my fingers become very stiff and sore after shooting. Many years ago I used a Wilson strap tab, but lost it. Where can one buy a Talon 3 ?
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Trying ti find a Talon Thumb Release but no links anywhere-- ideas?
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Bowwild, Been have trouble for years,and now arthritis not helping any. Just starting to shoot again after rotator cuff surgery. I'm using a thumb type release (Joel Turner style), a talon3 as a finger release and a Scott Mongoose. The Scott is the most comfortable and have no trouble getting full draw. I like the Talon 3 best but can only shoot it a couple days and get pain again, More or less playing with thumb release, I get real good releases with it and gained about 2" draw, that helps my 26" draw, it was pain full at first gets better.
So i'm going to use all 3 until arthritis let me shoot just one or not. BTW I haven't been able to shoot fingers for a lot of years now.
Bob
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About the Talon release. I have just moved to a new state and I am getting set up to start making the release's again. I will be concentrating on the the thumb tab because I found out that even the relief you get with the Talon3 isn't enough when your fingers go bad. The talon3 will help if the arthritis isn't to bad. The Talon Thumb Tab is different way to shoot(longer draw for one) and will keep you shooting for a long time to come. For more info contact me at [email protected]
Roger
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Roger I'm here if you need a tester, I do think the thumb release will be best.