I'm finally at the point where I'm comfortable enough with my shooting that I'm ready to put some hunting arrows together. My plan is to hunt with my super kodiak it's 45#, I draw 27". This bow is older so no fast flight string, not sure if that matters when choosing arrows. I'm comfortable working with aluminum arrows so I plan on sticking to them and I typically cut my arrows as little as possible when tuning. So when considering the up front weight that is desired in a hunting arrow, the fact that I like shooting pretty much full length shafts and the bow I want to set up.....any suggestions on spine, inserts, broadhead weight etc would be very helpful. I guess I should add that this setup is for whitetails.
Probably 1816's or 1916's would work. Full length are about 30", as I recall. The problem with your plan is that the longer the arrow, the lower the point weight to tune the arrow the same. A 28" arrow with a 150 grain point is a more effective hunting rig than a 30" arrow with a 125 grain point. I'm not a fan of EFOC, but 150 grains is just a good common sense point weight. My guess is 1816's if cut to 28", 1916's if left full length.
Have you given carbon arrows any thought? They are pretty much bomb proof.. Heck of a lot tougher than aluminum.
QuoteOriginally posted by Roy from Pa:
Have you given carbon arrows any thought? They are pretty much bomb proof.. Heck of a lot tougher than aluminum.
Cheaper than aluminum given their life span.
QuoteOriginally posted by McDave:
Probably 1816's or 1916's would work. Full length are about 30", as I recall. The problem with your plan is that the longer the arrow, the lower the point weight to tune the arrow the same. A 28" arrow with a 150 grain point is a more effective hunting rig than a 30" arrow with a 125 grain point. I'm not a fan of EFOC, but 150 grains is just a good common sense point weight. My guess is 1816's if cut to 28", 1916's if left full length.
I follow what you're saying about point weight, so could I just go with a stiffer shaft and leave it full length with a heavier point? I have 1916's and they show too weak with 125 grain heads when bareshaft tuning, so I think I may need to go a touch stiffer.
Are you gap shooting? If not, why not just shorten the 1916s. I'm surprised a 1916 is weak, but a 2016 is the next step.
Yes, you could leave a stiffer shaft full length and use a heavier point. However, this would be heavier overall than a shorter weaker shaft with the same point. According to Dr. Ashby, point weight is more significant than shaft weight in determining arrow penetration. So a longer, heavier arrow should be less effective for hunting than a shorter, lighter arrow with the same point, because penetration would be about the same, while arrow velocity would be less with the longer heavier arrow.
However, if for reasons of your own you prefer a full length arrow, given the results of your tests, a 2016 would be the next logical choice.
If his bow is actually 45#@28", and his DL is 27", that would mean his actual draw weight should be around 42#. I see no way a 2016 would tune correctly off that bow without a ton of weight up front. That would in turn make the total arrow weight so heavy that trajectory and speed would be horrendous!
JMHO!
Bisch
I shoot a 45x @28 Super K and draw to 27. I weighed it at that length. It was 43#. I shoot a 30" bop GT Trad 500 with a factory insert. I use 125gr field points when shooting targets and vintage Bear stainless Super Razorheads that fly perfectly off a Bear factory brush rest. The BHs weigh anywhere from 128 to 140gr without the insert.
5" parabolic three fletch.
I am a split three ringer shooter.
Something may be off if 1916s show weak. The 1816s 28" with 150 up front total and the shelf built out to 3/16" should be dead on. 28.5" 1916s with 175 total up front with a .125" outside of center, the standard side plate.
I think with a draw length of 27" you should cut your arrows to 29 or 30" and go with the 1816 or 1916 with a heavier point. With aluminum arrows you should have enough weight to not worry about adding any extra. Especially for deer. Don't get carried away worrying about a lot of extra point weight.
QuoteOriginally posted by pavan:
Something may be off if 1916s show weak. The 1816s 28" with 150 up front total and the shelf built out to 3/16" should be dead on. 28.5" 1916s with 175 total up front with a .125" outside of center, the standard side plate.
What should I be checking if something may be off? Something with the bow or form related? My bareshafts are at 29.5" right now, 125 grain tips and they consistently are hitting nock left with an ocassional straight arrow. I'm interpreting that as a bit weak spined, which would be even weaker with a heavier broadhead.
I really appreciate everybody thats replying, the help is very welcome. Sounds like I should just keep nipping back on the 1916's until they fly straight.....I suppose i wouldn't also be better served by tuning with heavier field point? Perhaps some 145 grain heads or maybe 165's?
I like to cut my arrows 1" longer than my draw length to allow for broadhead clearance, which in your case would be 28" for a 27" draw length. That would give you 1 1/2" to play with if you're currently at 29 1/2". I'm sure that would be enough to bring you in tune with 1916's and a 150 grain point (or 145 grain field point, which is practically the same). I've also found that going from 125 to 150 grains on the point really doesn't change tuning very much, probably about the equivalent of a 1/2" change in shaft length.
From your description, it is possible you are experiencing a false weak indication, since your nock left is not consistent. IOW, the shaft may be bouncing off the strike plate resulting in a nock left. This can be caused by form or other errors, which can be hard to pin down in the abstract.
My guess is that you would be pretty close with either 28" 1816's or 29" 1916's and 150 grain points.
I tend to agree that your shaft is glancing off the side plate and that form errors may be the culprit. So may a brace height that's too low.
For a hunting arrow I START with what broadhead I'll be putting on it first. Then match the weight with a corresponding weighted field point to tune and start full length and then cut.
QuoteOriginally posted by McDave:
I like to cut my arrows 1" longer than my draw length to allow for broadhead clearance, which in your case would be 28" for a 27" draw length. That would give you 1 1/2" to play with if you're currently at 29 1/2". I'm sure that would be enough to bring you in tune with 1916's and a 150 grain point (or 145 grain field point, which is practically the same). I've also found that going from 125 to 150 grains on the point really doesn't change tuning very much, probably about the equivalent of a 1/2" change in shaft length.
From your description, it is possible you are experiencing a false weak indication, since your nock left is not consistent. IOW, the shaft may be bouncing off the strike plate resulting in a nock left. This can be caused by form or other errors, which can be hard to pin down in the abstract.
My guess is that you would be pretty close with either 28" 1816's or 29" 1916's and 150 grain points.
Thank you for spending the time to help me out (that goes to everyone). The minds in this forum are a really amazing resource.
Im going to trim my 1916's a 1/4 Inch at a time and put some 145 grain points on and keep bareshaft tuning and see if I can't make my current arrows work, which would be the ideal situation since I have a bunch of 1916's.
Also, keep in mind that bare shaft tuning will literally give you nightmares if your release is not super consistent. Once you get "close" shoot the bare shaft(s) with fletch shafts. If they are grouping, then you are there.
Great advice about cutting only 1/4" at a time. All arrows have a point where that 1/4" difference in either direction can make or break the tune.
Focus on a consistent release, and keep at it. Also, while the advice on here is sound - don't try to replicate other's results. Everyone's release is so different that one man's tune isn't the same from bow to bow and from shooter to shooter.
Regardless of what shaft you choose, put a white wrap on them so you can see them in flight, see them in the fleeing animal, or for finding the arrow while blood trailing. I like the reflective wraps. They reflect flashlight beams great. Also go with bright nocks and fletching. I like a blue cock feather and 2 whites. It's surprising how often that it's the blue fletch that I see when searching for the arrow
And skip the camo shafts. Camo arrows are just about the dumbest idea for hunting arrows. You often need to find and examine the arrow in order to decide trailing strategies.
And FWIW, I've been shooting Grizzly Stick Sitka for several years now. Fantastic arrows.they are a little pricey but hunting arrows are no place to try to save a few dollars.
Try a full length 2016. They should come close. Form, release, personal style, all add substantial differences to what arrows work. Torquing the bow can show a weak shaft as can plucky releases. Super clean releases may show the shaft to stiff.
If you can see wraps in flight, somethin' ain't right...
2014s or 1820 shafts..............
So when choosing an arrow for hunting.....I'm looking at the arrow chart on three rivers, in regards to the point weight...are they including the insert and point? Meaning is the "point weight" on the chart including broadhead/tip and insert?
Next question, how much up front weight should I be looking at on the chart to give me some flexibility with tuning? 175 grains? 200 grains?
I have been shooting carbons since 2009 and love them someone said early in this post that they are bomb proof that's a true. But that being said I am starting down the wood arrow path and when you get it figured out all can say is Wow!
QuoteOriginally posted by wooddamon1:
If you can see wraps in flight, somethin' ain't right...
:thumbsup: :biglaugh: