Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: RedShaft on November 16, 2017, 02:51:00 PM
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If you shoot purely instinctively and don’t shoot gap how far do you shoot at game?
I wouldn’t shoot over 20 yards unless something made me feel I could make it.
Small game I would stretch that out some.
Was just curious at to what distances you guys comfortably shoot out to purely instinctively hunting?
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For me it depends a lot on how much I've been shooting. I do gap sometimes, but once you do it for a while, it kinda just becomes instinctive. I don't consciously measure the gap anymore.
I've had times I was shooting well at 40 and times I wouldn't go past 15. Also depends on the bow setup sometimes .... I'm not shooting a sapling bow 40 yards at anything but a target.
Right now I'm comfortable to about 25 or so, maybe 30.
Best thing IMO is to take a test shot or shots out of the stand .... what's 30yards from THIS stand .... that tree? That one? .... I can Never seem to judge that well.
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20 yards is my preferred. In my basement there is a 20 yard "alley" I shoot daily. I might try 25 yards if the conditions were ideal.
I practice on stumps out to 80 yards (or more) but they have no tendency to move or startle. One of the best shots I ever made was a red squirrel at 25 yards that would not shut up. He was running back-and-forth along a fallen tree trunk and I picked him off with my single blunt from a 60# longbow. Had his tail on my quiver for years until I absent-mindedly set it down near the door and our cat had himself a great time.
I shoot purely instinctive (at least I don't use any conscious gap or such) to 20 yards. After that I just start to focus on a different impact point that the arrow hopefully eventually hits. So if I normally focus on a spot centered in the lower 1/4 of a deer's chest at 20 yards I'll be focusing on that tiny spot low in the upper 1/3 of the chest at 25 yards (compensating for an elevated stand as needed - I think about where the arrow would exit). There is a 3-D bag deer target I keep in the woods beside my barn and practice out to 25 yards on that. But even so it would have to be one of those "cherubs fluttering and heavens opening" offerings to chance a 25 yards shot.
But I have passed up at 15 yards or closer if it just isn't a good angle or does not "feel" right. Blocking cover, alerted deer, bad angle, etc.
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I practice out to 20 yards so that is my comfort zone. Could probably shoot to 25 yards by picking a spot a little higher on the deer but conditions would have to be perfect for me to even consider it.
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Never gave it much thought...??
If it feels right, shoot it!
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Originally posted by woodchucker:
Never gave it much thought...??
If it feels right, shoot it!
I tend to agree with this, but generally if hunting I try to keep it inside 25 yds. This helps account for in-flight time and animal movement.
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It just depends on my current shot confidence level. Usually 20-25 but more if it feels right. Unlimited for a follow up shot though.
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For under 25 yards and shooting split, the sight picture is familiar and that probably equates to more of an instinctive shot for many. On longer shots, which takes lots of practice, the arrow is higher is visual and the for many that familiarity is more noticeable. I shoot in practice with taking a definite note of the position of things without taking my eye off of the mark. In short order that becomes automatic, but at long shots the mechanics of aiming are a little more relevant. I like 20 to 30 yards, being a ground only hunter. I never back up when the shot is under 20 yards, closer is always good if the cover is good.
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Originally posted by woodchucker:
Never gave it much thought...??
If it feels right, shoot it!
Yep, this how I look at it too. :archer:
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I have always done best limiting my distance to 20 yds. I have been working on 25 yards, but health issues have greatly limited my shooting.
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20 and under, 25 if the planets are aligned properly. I learned the hard way as a teenager hitting a Pepsi bottle at 35-40 yards is a lot easier than hitting a deer. Had one take a step just as I let one fly. He wasn't spooked or anything got him right through the gut. Never found him and never took a shot like that again.
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Would prefer 20 yards and under. But I like practice out to 30 yards even with broadheads. I am a ground hunter, no tree stands, anymore. Areas I have hunted out here are somewhat open. Not much foliage in the woods like back East. So that 25-30 yard shot is more likely to happen.
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I am in the if it feels right let it fly camp. But for deer, it is not going to be much over 20 yards. But no stump or clump of grass, within eye sight is safe.
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Targets, stumps, leaves just about any distance. Animals be it big or small need us to do our part and for me it has to feel right.
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15 yards at an animal. That's what I'm comfortable with.
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Part of the reason IO never kill deer is that I stink at judging distance. deer always seem farther away to me but when I pace it off usually they are a lot closer than I know I can hit...
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25 yards is the distance I shoot every day - and I have good control at this distance in the field. Deer in my area are small I have 4 year old does that commonly run 80# so the target is not huge. I like to shoot deer at 15 yards - and hogs at 10. Bears too I prefer a 10 to 15 yard shot. Other game and larger game shooting a little further is OK. Big deer in WV 25 to 30 yards I am good.
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A "purely" instinctive shooting may not be concerned with distance.
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Yeah, but an arrow only travels 200 yards or so. ;-)
The 'ol "distance at which you can hit a gallon milk jug every time with the first attempt" rule-of-thumb.
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I am just getting back into trad.... My limit was about 18 yds with my osage selfbow that I made... Shot a scrub rack buck at 16yds that year !!! Next year, I passed up a surefire Boone and Crocket buck... Biggest buck I have ever seen alive.... I had him at 23 yds., and couldn't chance the shot... watched him walk off... I can still see it in my mind like it was today, but I have never once regretted that decision...
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15-20. I've had several deer in the 22-25 yard range that I have let walk in the 4 hunting seasons that I have been using traditional gear. Good on you yard dog - you are a credit to the clan!
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I remember the old t-shirt saying from the early 70's, "If it feels good, do it!".
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Although I practice in my yard, and I know, in general, how far I am to the target, I don't judge distance for a shot. I judge the sight picture, silly as that sounds. I like em close, maybe 20 yards max, but I prefer 15 and will take 5. I hunt from the ground, generally in my ghillie suit and a minimal ground blind. i mean minimal.. and there is no excitement like having a deer 5 yards away about to get shot. I can hit five yards.
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My effect range is under 20 yards. I
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When I practice, like most I shoot at 20 yards some 30. But what I found is that shooting instinctively allows me to take shots, without range estimation. I have taken 4-5 animals, when I just looked and shot. Afterward, would of sworn they was 25-30 yards. Few when stepped off was 35-38 and one Doe (bigger than thought) was 42 yards away, which I could not believe made it. It just goes to show what good form, confidence does, over range estimation. I know for me, that when I let all else go and just "focus" on the spot, the shot happens, like it was meant to be.
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I ha e shot a few critters over 20yds, but I’d say 95% were 15yds or less!
Bisch
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20 yards has been my usual limit with most shots at 12 to 15. I have taken 2 shots over the years that I later paced off at 30 yards, in both cases the arrow went right under the chest, clean misses.
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Hitting a deer target out to 45 yards is not that difficult, but it does take lots of practice at that range. I find it amazing how seldom any deer gives a shooting opportunity that one can take a shot over 30 yards. It happens, but not very often. One step and it is a bad shot. In over 40 years of deer hunting, I have and just four opportunities on deer that I was pretty sure they were unaware of me and would hold still. I got three, but the one that was feeding on a round bale of oats, took two steps while the arrow was in the air and I took hair off of the deer's tail. I had shot at that bale a bunch of times, I knew I could make an accurate shot, but who knew the oats on the other end of bale were better? Stuff can go wrong on long shots, but then stuff can go wrong on close shots as well.
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Still working on finding something legal to shoot at. But my limit is still 20 yards. I'm mostly a gap shooter but it's harder for me to screw up from 0-20 and too easy to do so past there under field conditions.
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I like being close and having to wait for something to move far away enough to draw. I ground hunt, and a lot of that time is in a ghillie. But my longest shot was on the last day of a 10 day DIY elk bowhunt and it was double lung @ 37 or so yards. Followed by the bull turning 180 degrees and running downhill into the steepest, nastiest, tightest place full of deadfalls that he could find to die in. I'm comfortable accuracy-wise around 35 yards but over-story and time of flight can become a factor.
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Im in the "if it feels right" camp. When I stump shoot usually as soon as I see a target I try a shot at it and I'm usually pretty close if not spot on.
When I analyze the shot first, how far is it, etc etc I'm usually way more off.
With all that said, 25-30 yds at most is my limit, closer the better.
Just curious why on Small game you'd stretch your comfort zone.
They're animals too and deserve our respect as much as big game.
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This afternoon, a 100 yard wide picked corn field with switch grass on the east side and west side, a cock pheasant flew from the east switch grass to the west switch grass. I had just previously took three 40 to 45 yard warm up shots with a judo in the picked corn,I was on today. I took out my token pheasant arrow, a cedar with a sharp 145 ribtec that had been shot once as flight check. At about 18 yards forward and left the pheasant took off. I was shooting left handed, I stepped into the shot and had a minor tangle with some taller switch grass. I pushed the bow free and was still seeing the right eyeball of the pheasant. I released. As the arrow left the bow, I noticed that i was looking at the back of the pheasants head, it veered a little. The arrow passed the right feathers hit the arrow as it passed by the pheasant that was 35 to 40 yards out at the time. A miss, but such fun. Later a doe came out, I was using a strap on tree seat, in a position that I could see the corn field, instead further back about 45 yards, she would have passed with in 15 yards of my normal spot, A buck, good body with the smallest goof ball eight point rack that I have ever seen was hot her trail, he went down the same trail, I would have taken a shot at him. A bit after that yearling does, a couple of spike bucks, button bucks and two fawns came filing out from every where at one time. I had 11 of them within 20 yards of me, the bigger mama of the two small fawns stayed out about 45 to 50 yards, while the others crowded around me. I think they must have been mesmerized by my white glassed Sunset Hill bow. Later another four came up and joined them further out in the field. Then one yearling or smallish doe came up from behind me on the same trail that walked on, until she was a few feet from me. I turned to say hello, she snorted and the whole gang ran off and I was all alone.. Point is, if a hard flying pheasant can have such close miss, why are deer that are standing still that same distance suppose to be so hard to hit? I took no shots at deer, but it is funny how the mind jumps to completely different program when contemplating a shot at a deer.
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For me, it's the distance that I can put 90% of my shots, or better, in a 9" circle consistently. I write down misses and keep track, looking back after hundreds of shots. I used to shoot about 95% out to 30 yds but right now, it's under 20 for me.
I think a lot of bowhunters (trad and modern) have selective memories, meaning, they forget their bad shots or blame it on the sun in their eyes or something (like that wouldn't happen when shooting at game) but they remember the day last month when they nailed every dandelion they shot at out to 40 yards.
Another good test is to shoot a 3D shoot and step off the distances after you shoot. If you can't keep every shot in the 8 ring for all of your 25 yard shots, it's too far to shoot at game.
I've shot with guys who think they are good enough to shoot out to 30 yards but miss half of their 30 yard shots on a 3D
course.
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Kevsuperg, for me I'm ok with longer shots at small game, say a rabbit, because if I hit it, I can usually run it down and catch it, the arrow will slow it down enough. Even on a 5 yard shot, I rarely hit the minuscule lungs of a rabbit anyway so a 40 yd hit is as good as a 7 yard hit. It's either a clean miss or a dead bunny. Hope that makes sense.
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I'm cool with that Doug. Didn't want to put you on the spot.
Shoot straight my friend
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Originally posted by Doug Treat:
I think a lot of bowhunters (trad and modern) have selective memories, meaning, they forget their bad shots or blame it on the sun in their eyes or something (like that wouldn't happen when shooting at game) but they remember the day last month when they nailed every dandelion they shot at out to 40 yards.
Excellent point. Memories aren't stored like home movies in your head, but rather a collection of pictures that are assembled into a flip book when called upon. This manor of reccolection is a hindsight bias, the good old days phenomenon. For instance, I have taken plenty of 80 yard shots at a 3d deer target, but I don't recall most of them. Although the singular instance which my arrow arced into the upper 10 ring from that range is very memorable, I cannot stess enough that I'm not good to 80 yards shooting instictively just because all of the shots I remember at that range were great. :bigsmyl:
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10 yards is my max distance at deer.
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My thought process when a shot presents itself is not how far is that but rather 'can I make this shot.' Some times 'can I make this shot' is only 15 yards some times it's 25 yards... go figure.
But I set my tree stands up for 18yards and under.
:archer2:
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Depends on the situation. I've passed on under 15 yds shots on elk and made 35 yds shots. It's how it "feels" at the time compared to your experiences.
Mike
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15 yards and less feels best, so that’s my yardage.
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15 yards and less feels best, so that’s my yardage.
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It's kind of like one of my dad's best lines.
When talking about shoe sizes he said
"I can wear a nine, but a twelve feels a whole lot better."
I can shoot 20 yards or maybe a little more, but 15 feels a whole lot better.
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I use my built in range finder....if I can spit a lugee at it and hit usually I can hit it with my longbow....head wind and tail wind are very important to my range finder. :p
Bayonette charges are not out of the question either.
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With selfbows and wooden arrows in most of my situations here in Pa, stillhunting, I generally like to get within 20 yards or so of deer, but have taken them as cleanly as any I've killed out closer to 30.
I like to get closer to smaller, quicker animals like squirrels, rabbits, groundhogs, etc.
That said, it isn't a distance thing for me so much as it is a feeling when everything comes together, and it's time to pounce. I guess I've done it enough that recognizing those highest percentage shot opportunities happens without much conscious thought. If I have to think about it much, or 'force a shot' even a tiny bit, I hold the string.
I may pass one at 8 yards and kill the next at 25.
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Shooting into the sunrise or sunset is a big limiter for me when I have glasses on. I had a small buck at 20 yards and a large doe at a longer shot last night. The evening sun lit up my glasses.
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What kevsuperg said. I feel good practicing out to 30 but when I set up a blind for deer, I really want a max 15 yardish shot. Last week I shot a buck and he was about 15-20 feet away and lucky enough, I hit where I was looking. But the monster buck that came in before him almost as close had my heart thumping hard and I felt a bit weak, you know-buck fever. Times like that I don't think I'd feel comfortable taking a 20 yard shot on a whitetail. They are so darn alert and jumpy.
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My average shot distance is 12yds on whitetails from stands or blinds and I try to set up for 10-20. I've killed bucks as close as 5yds and this years buck was at 27yds when the arrow took out both lungs.
It's not a distance thing for me either, it's focus! Once I know I'm going to shoot it's like a auto pilot thing I'm zoned in on one thing no distractions, no shaking, no over thinking, just getting that one perfect shot at that one perfect spot.
It's no different then stump shooting, I look at a stump and say that's 22yds, never!!! I could care less! All I know is I'm going to kill that stump and not only that I'm going to kill that little hole in that stump. Overthinking will make you miss every time before you ever even pull your bow back. You can't force that arrow to fly we're your not really looking JMO
Tracy
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Originally posted by K.S.TRAPPER:
My average shot distance is 12yds on whitetails from stands or blinds and I try to set up for 10-20. I've killed bucks as close as 5yds and this years buck was at 27yds when the arrow took out both lungs.
It's not a distance thing for me either, it's focus! Once I know I'm going to shoot it's like a auto pilot thing I'm zoned in on one thing no distractions, no shaking, no over thinking, just getting that one perfect shot at that one perfect spot.
It's no different then stump shooting, I look at a stump and say that's 22yds, never!!! I could care less! All I know is I'm going to kill that stump and not only that I'm going to kill that little hole in that stump. Overthinking will make you miss every time before you ever even pull your bow back. You can't force that arrow to fly we're your not really looking JMO
Tracy
^^^
Yep
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I consider 15 yards to be kind of a long poke on a deer. Somewhere 15 to 20 is going to be my max. Never really cared to try to kill any further out than that.
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I like close. 8-15 yards. 18-20 is about max. I sometimes surprise myself at longer ranges, but targets are one thing, I wouldn't take the same attitude with a live target.
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When I get zero'd in, concentrated, on an animals chest distance doesn't matter, when it feels right I shoot. In 53 years my kill shots have been from 6 ft to 65-70yds. My average over those 53 years is 17 yds.
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I always say, I may not know the right distance but I sure know the wrong distance at the time the shot presents its self.
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If you feel that the animal senses something is wrong you best be close when you shoot if you want a humane kill.
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Close in as possible.
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I like them close but again it's a "feeling" thing. My average on whitetail is 11 yds, but I have a couple at 27 yds. Distances always look farther from a tree stand.
It also has to do with how I've been shooting. If I've been shooting really well, I have my confidence up to make that longer shot.
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I stop hunting because of shoulder issues, problem solved ! I just got back into it not too long ago. I am practicing right now 10 to 15 yards. But 20 yards would be my max once I'm back at. You always want to make sure you are hitting the spot. You never want to wound anything, because of a wild shot. You never take chances, you will always have another opportunity. You just have to wait for the right time and distance. That's why they call it hunting.
DS
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Normally about 20 yards, but I just shot at one about an hour ago that was 25. I had a wide-open shot, but he was cagey already for some reason. He jumped string pretty bad even in the stout wind that was blowing here this afternoon, but my shot didn't look good anyway, Seemed like it windplaned pretty bad (crossing wind). Shooting a 2 blade Zwickey Delta, fairly heavy (larch) shaft. Dang I hate missing. Pretty decent buck, too.
I've killed two deer at 35+ but I was really in good shooting form then, better than I am right now. I'll be glad when I can give up one of my two jobs so I can shoot as often as I want/need to.
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I know that I have deer killing accuracy out to my point on, I practice way too much, but the opportunities to use it are far and few between on deer. But this thread particularly asked for instinctive distance. I am not sure what 'pure instinctive' is, as I know that the crown of my point ferrule is just under the deer's chest at 45 yards.
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Pavan you no the difference between instinctive and aiming with the tip :knothead:
For me it's pure instinctive, swing draw, no holding, never see my arrow or anything else, no judging distance just pure focus!!!
Same way I shoot shotguns as example, I grew up working at a gun club. Learned to shoot both eyes open thousands of shots later you don't even notice the barrel or anything else. I had sponsors, compeated shot all through my tenage years and learned to just relax always pick a spot on a target, not just look at it and your instincts will take over.
Swing draw can be a slow or fast motion but as you call it grip and rip just depends on how you use it.
Tracy
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I know that I can see the arrow, the bow and a bunch of stuff when I shoot and I shoot pretty fast. I shoot thousands of shots a week from March to the start of hunting season and I can always see the arrow without shifting my focus, even at my fastest less than a second draw to release tempo shots. As the distance increases the arrow gets more into the picture and the tempo slows up some. After years of doing it, it has become an automatic part of my shot. The graduation from close less aimed shots to long hard aimed shots is not a clear and definite yardage with me. What one sees and what they acknowledge what they see is often quite different.
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A good hunter shoots only as far as he KNOWS he can kill the animal cleanly. That way if he misses he can at least still feel good about not having been an idiot about shot distance.