Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Captain*Kirk on November 16, 2017, 01:13:00 PM
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OK, here goes; I'm not Robin Hood. Nor am I his brother. I do OK at 20 yards and under instinctively, in fact I bust more than a few nocks at these distances shooting my vintage Bears.
Lately I've been eyeing some custom bows, some from the bigger names and some from the smaller 'indie' guys. I don't compete, shoot FITA or any sponsored 3D matches. So here's my question;
Do I REALLY need a custom bow (at custom bow prices) when all I do is stumping, hunting, 3D and backyard shooting?
Is the quality of a custom really going to add (other than bragging rights) anything practical to my bowhunting and shooting experience that a vintage quality bow is lacking? (again, more than aesthetic properties or bragging rights) I'd like to hear from both sides of the coin on this one...both the guys that adore their customs, as well as those who think they might have wasted good money on nothing but bling.
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As the owner of more custom bows than I care to count, of course you don't “need” a custom bow. Your situation with bows is kind of like my situation with shotguns. For the amount of duck hunting I do, a Remington would work fine. I don't need a Benelli, but I enjoy shooting it. I've never regretted buying the Benelli, because I didn't take anything away from my family by doing it.
If you're in the same situation, I’m sure you'll enjoy shooting a custom bow. Don't put too much of your hopes and dreams into it, though. There is a certain chance that you'll get one that you don't really like. In that case, you have to be wiling to sell it and try something else. That's probably a little easier to do with a Remington than a Benelli.
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"Do I REALLY need a custom bow"
Yes! Yes you do LOL! The truth is that most bows out there will always out-shoot the guy or gal drawing back. My go to hunting bow is an ILF Hoyt riser with Morrison Max 4 limbs and Breathin strings. I absolutely love it. But it never feels or looks like my black widow bows or my Toelke long bow did. Does it (me) outperform the other bows? Yes.
IMHO there is an experience to be had from a semi-custom/custom bow. And, for some I'm sure they pick up performance and confidence as well. Sometimes it seems those bows grow a soul or a bond with the owner that's hard to put into words.
I just recently picked up a Schafer Silvertip from a gentleman on this site. I didn't need it, but I certainly wanted it. Why? It's a Silvertip and I've always wanted one. It will be hunting with me in December, and God willing maybe "we" will get lucky.
My advise is at least once, buy a custom bow. See if you experience a little more enjoyment from carrying it afield or admiring it as it hangs on your bow rack.
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my opinion...
No one "NEEDS A CUSTOM", just like no one needs heated seats in their vehicles, but they sure are nice!
I have seen people compete with bear bows and win. Heck, I even know a guy who won the Howard Hill with a bow he built that is flat out "junk". The limbs aren't perfectly square to the riser, aren't tillered perfectly, etc, but man, do I shoot the bow well!
It's really all about what you want! Don't worry about "needing" something unless you're very frugal, which is fine! But, sometimes it's nice to have a custom.
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I've always been to cheap to shell out the money for a custom bow. Took many a nice animal with a economical WELL MADE bow. With that being said as soon as my daughter graduates from college next year IM GETTING A BLACK WIDOW. Saw one in a magazine when I was a teenager and man it was a beauty. Think it was a lil over 300 bucks, hell I paid 400 for my first truck. Never did get around to forking out that kinda money, then met a girl got married you know how it goes. But next year I'm buying one, don't think I can get one for $300 anymore. So never having owned one id say no ya don't need one but I own all kinda stuff I don't need.
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Do you need one, no. But if it is within your means there is just something about picking the woods and having one made to your specifications. I have 5 customs and that is all I shoot, but I have the means and have not taken anything away from my family.
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Do you "need" a custom tailored suit or will one off the rack do the job? Or keep you as warm? Certainly there is pride of ownership in a well made bow. And you hope a custom bow is well made. But how custom is it? Did the bowyer measure your hand?
My four absolute favorite deer hunting and stump-shooting bows were all purchased used from the classifieds for between $100 and $135 each.
All are production bows from the 1960's. And I shoot either cedar or Douglas fir shafts from them.
I'm no Robin Hood, either. But on a good day I can touch my fingertips around three arrows from 20 yards in the target. And again this year a Red Wing Hunter put the venison in the freezer for me.
A custom bow is a thing of beauty and a joy forever. But I get a kick out of keeping the old girls in play.
The broadhead(s) I used this year, in fact, were manufactured in 1960. I bought a bunch of Mowoc Dots from Larry Whiffen, Jr. a couple years ago.
Guess what - they work, too.
Deer haven't changed much in the last 60 years or so.
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Next question would be - what exactly is a custom bow?
If whoever doesn't start designing it until they get your order. That's custom.
If it already has a model number and there are hundreds already in use . . . wouldn't that be production with options?
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If you're satisfied with "off the rack", or "production line" bows, no, shoot what you have. But, if you want a choice of woods, weight at your draw length, grip and some of the other add-ons available, well, then you do. I doubt a custom will make you a better shot. But, there are some very talented bowyers out there. Check some out. Make sure they offer what you're looking for.
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Originally posted by stagetek:
If you're satisfied with "off the rack", or "production line" bows, no, shoot what you have.
That's a difficult question to answer fairly, because that's all I own and all I've ever shot or hunted with.
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How about used? I have a used "custom" Black Widow, but I didn't get to pick out the wood, grip, size and weight. I also didn't have to wait and got a really cool bow at about half the price of new.
If you don't like the used one, you can usually sell it for what you paid for it.
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Despite the mantra we often read and write on these very pages, none of us "needs" to even hunt. Let alone bowhunt. Let alone bowhunt with a stick and string. So no, you do not "need" a custom bow.
That being said, I recently took possession of my my very first, custom built for me, bow in 40 years of bowhunting and shooting. I found a bowyer who was making bows that I shot well and I worked with him to get the specs and looks I wanted. I shoot it marginally better than I did my previous bows because it was designed to perform well at my draw and I care a little more because I had a hand in its creation.
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It was a personal decision for me to have Big Jim build me a bow after shooting one of his Thunderchilds at Cloverdale. I sent him wood from my property her in Indiana. Mulberry, black oak and plum, along with some mahogany and teak that had been in my family for years. There are plenty of prettier bows out there, but none that could mean as much to me. Our sport is quite a personal, individual calling, and I get to take a bit of family and Home with me into the field or onto the range each time I go. :archer2:
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I own a dozen or so custom bows ..... cause I made them all I can afford it. Turns out wood pretty cheap. Mostly wood bows.
I own an old recurve I bought for maybe $100 and it shoots as good as any I've made if not better.
You don't need anything but a sapling and a string. Don't buy the hype. Getting close is cheap, and spends big won't make you a better shot.
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If you have any buddies with custom bows try them out ... like all toys some are better than others and it sounds like you shoot a fair amount. I have had lots of bows over the years and i would prefer a custom over a production bow, but it can be a very long journey to find "that" custom bow.
The classifieds here are a great way to indulge yourself on the journey to find the right bow. Buy at a good price and sell it if it does not meet your needs and get another.
Good luck to ya
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I agree with Elkken. I would also add that if you have the opportunity to attend one of the bigger shoots they have many customs available for you to try out. I have had a pile of customs and they aren't all what they are cracked up to be. Find out what you like in a bow prior to blowing a pile of money and finding out it's not what you expected. Each of my customs have their own little quirks that makes them a little different. The answer to your question is Yes it is worth it to me to have a bow that performs exactly as you desire.
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I don't have enough bows, so I keep buying them! I own lots of bows that were "custom" for somebody but I have only about 4 or 5 that I bought new and ordered for me-"custom". I have many nice bows that came from well known bowyers that someone else bought new and I picked up second or third hand.
Right now, I'm into Hill bows and I have three, none of which were made for me. I also own two old Bears and a Groves Spitfire that I love to shoot and will kill an elk or deer as dead as anything I own. I have bought several used bows off of TG and other trad classifieds, RMSG in Denver, and just from individuals who wanted to sell them.
It is fun to shoot different bows, but if you're looking to gain an advantage by spending more money and getting a "custom" bow, I don't think you can justify spending the extra bucks. If there's a bow from a bowyer you really like then call him up and order one. I just buy them. I don't sell them. You can never have too many bows!
Mike
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Not all custom bows are more expensive than off the shelf. My last bow was completely designed for how I shoot and my stature. It is a remarkable bow both left and right handed, it requires nothing special from me to make it work. I have four of them at different weights. One is my creation, I tinkered with it until I got it just right, the other three were made by others, but they hit the nail on the head. I can add this I compared a new Bear Montana this year to a used Robertson and a Toelke. Another archer wanted my feed back. That Montana was not even close to the other two.
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Yes and No. Finding a bow that really fits you is the most important thing. I have finally after many bows and much $$$
Found 3 that I plan to keep. One is a custom, but not made for me. I don't think most folks ( me included ) know exactly what makes one bow shoot better for their style than another.
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Buy a custom when you can it will last a long time and you will enjoy it.
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Get one with very perdy wood so when the day comes when you can't shoot, you have something nice to look at. :thumbsup:
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Short answer....No you don't. I have owned a bunch of "customs" and they were fine bows, but my Bears suit me just as well as any custom recurve I ever owned and that includes some of the better know and a new Bear in full warranty is no more than a used custom that will not be "custom" for you any way. For my longbows I still prefer the custom makers simply because the choices in factory longbows is just not as there. When I say "longbow" I am referring to the ASL style of bow.
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Buy a used “Custom”... Pay the price of most Non-Custom bows out there new...
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I am going to be different, YES you do need one, you have the itch, you have the money, you can wait for it, do it! You will never truly be satisfied with any bow you buy used or off the rack as long as you got that itch. I know, been there, done that. I finally went and got it done, a Vintage Works 62 reproduction Bear Kodiak. My choice of woods, glass, finish, heck I even sent him wood. It’s mine, it’s mine and I like the way it shoots and handles. Is it the last bow I buy or shoot? Never, I like shooting and I like variety with my bows and arrows. It’s my hobby, my sport, a big part of my life.
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It adds to the fun. Yes you should have a few custom bows!
Tedd
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I don't believe the decision making process revolves around the issue of custom bow or production bow. Equally, I don't believe the decision making process revolves around price. My experience is that the bow that fits you best and you shoot best is the best bow for you.
I've bought new custom bows, top shelf. I've bought previously owned custom bows. I've bought several production bows.
The bow I shoot poorest is a production bow, even though I've been successful with it and many others brag about it. I can't say the bow is at fault, except that it doesn't seem to quite fit me right.
And, the bow that I absolutely shoot the best, I bought as a back up bow. Hands down, I shoot it well. It's a cheap Korean three piece recurve. Why? I believe because the grip fits my hand so well.
My most expensive custom shoots well. But it took me a long time to become accustomed to it. Why? Not sure! But, I think that it is different in some ways to other bows. On the other hand, if I shoot that bow exclusively during a season, and I get accustomed to it, it can drive tacks.
In the end, I like them all!! Right now I believe I have eight - not many compared to some folks, but plenty for me.
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If what you have is working, you don't "need" a custom.
I shoot used customs, that were made for other people, LOL. I just look for one that's close enough to what I want.
The reason I shoot customs is to get a little different style of bow than the big number production bows turn out. Things like static tipped recurves and extreme reflex/deflex hybrid longbows. Another reason is to get one that's tillered for three under. Not a neccessitiy, but it does seem to make the bow a little quieter.
One reason that seems to be why a lot of people buy customs is to get one made from fancy expensive and unique woods. The wood choices and the length are usually the only major "custom" things folks can change anyway. Grip alterations and tillering options are there too.
Personally I think that a lot of customs today are overhyped and are praised mostly for their exotic riser woods and limb veneers. :goldtooth:
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If you are shooting Vintage recurves then you are shooting many superb bows in my experience.Guys like Bob Lee and Fred Bear and others knew what they were doing.I dont think you need a custom curve personally.
If you were looking for a hybrid and or special longbow thier is not as much available from the Vintage era.So much was geared toward recurves then.You have these shorter hybrids and radical hybrids now all over the map currantly.Many designs and styles of longbows as well from many bowyers.You did not have near as many of these options available in such prolific numbers in the Vintage era.
So I think it might be more fruitful if you were hunting for this type of bow to start looking at customs.Or a second hand custom if your patient in the right length and poundage.Or if you find one you love have it custom made.You gotta love it though.Its a lot of $ for us working stiffs.
I always went to trad bow shows back in the day that had as many venders as possible to try out all Bowyers bows thoroughly.
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I have bought a few "Custom" bow that were made to my specs and choices of woods......were they worth it??? Yep, but on the other hand I have a bunch of bows that I got off the classifieds that were made for someone and I got them at 1/2 price or just over. I have Stalkers, Hills, Northern Mist, Holm-Made, Bear, Zipper, Treadway and a bunch of others........get want you want and then enjoy it. If that means buying used, so be it.
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Lot of consistency in the responses. I like to choose the wood, draw weight at my draw length, and I like the perfection in top customs.
Do I need them? No. I could do just fine with my 70's era Bear A-Mag but I sure like my customs.
If you don't mind spending the money and like some pointed out, the build wait, go for it. My family hasn't been neglected (far from it) because of a few bows I've bought over the years.
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I've had probably over 200 bows. Some custom for me, some customs that I bought used, some factory bows, and some semi-customs that were just bought off the shelf new or used.
My opinion is that custom bows add NOTHING for value in terms of function unless the design features that you request help the bow to fit your body better. That said, its not like you can't find a bow off the shelf that fits your body perfectly. In fact, of all the bows that I've had and shot my one keeper is a Sarells Sierra that I found on the longbow rack at a local store and traded a rimfire silhouette rig that I built for. That bow wasn't made for me and while it looks good it certainly isn't the prettiest that I've had but its the best shooting bow I've ever held and shot and is my go-to hunting bow. I recently sold all my others because the Sierra is the only one I actually grabbed when I needed a good bow.
What custom bows can offer is differences in aesthetics, potentially utilize some horn/antler/wood from sentimental places, potentially give you some features to customize the fit to your body, etc. Also sometimes the simple fact of having everything just like you want makes a bow/gun/whatever more enjoyable to own and use.
I wouldn't ever talk anyone out of a custom bow if that's what they want. However, for me I feel that I do just fine without a custom built bow for myself. I tried for years to find a take down that I liked as well as my one piece and couldn't so now I've given up on the idea of a take down travel bow as well. I'll shoot my off the shelf Sarells Sierra until either I or it dies.
I've often wondered if I were to order a custom bow because my Sierra dies if I would bother with fancy wood or a simple grey laminate. I love gorgeous wood as much as the next guy but a simple grey laminate would basically be a camouflage given that I hunt mostly oak and hickories. It would match the bark of the trees that I hunt around extremely well. That would likely make a better hunting bow than a fancy myrtle or cocobolo or ebony.
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Like most thing in this sport, the answer is "it depends".
I used to be a dealer for a custom bowyer. What makes a bow "custom" is even debateable. This particular bowyer didn't even call his bows "custom". He said he made "production bows with options", which was a more accurate description. A truly custom bow would have to be designed specifically for you from the ground up, and I don't know of anyone who offers that or anyone who could afford it if it were offered.
Will a custom bow make you a better archer? No.
The best money you can spend on archery, IMO, is with an accredited coach or a clinic like the ones Rod Jenkins puts on--well worth the money.
I've lost count of the "custom" bows I've owned. The most recent was a Mike Treadaway I got this year. I got it because neither Mike or I are getting any younger, and I wanted one of his bows because I really like Mike and he's one heck of a bowyer. I plan to get another before too long...from Roy Hall, for the same reason. Meanwhile, the bows I shoot the most are a hickory selfbow I made (with a lot of adult supervision) and a super cheap Samick Journey that I just enjoy shooting.
Short answer...if you want it and can afford it, go for it. I suggest checking out the bowyer and getting a warranty in writing, because there are some skunks out there. However, get it because you really want it, not because you expect it to really improve your shooting. It won't.
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I have only 1 custom built for me, and 3 others built for someone else. And with each purchase, my family suffered.
My wife had to keep my supper warm, or delay it altogether, because I would not leave my range in back. And she was brutally forced to go shopping alone on a Saturday because I headed out to shoot with friends. My son was deprived of "extra" sleep or video game time because he had to do a little more yard work - same reasons.
Yes, I've made my family suffer - and it was worth every penny, every time!
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All I know is guys who buy custom bows, usually buy more than one ;)
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Think there is a common theme running here. Need or want?
I suppose I don’t need Leica binos, filson wool, or the grand compliment of high end wood working tools in my shop, but they are all sure nice to have and much like my custom Cari-bow, there is not one ounce of buyers remorse.
I work hard, i have a solid career and i am sure to payu mortgage first and ensure my childrens needs are met before my wants.
I have a few production bows and used customs. I have killed game with every bow on my rack. I bought a custom when after a year of looking i couldnt find what i wanted. I have a 26 inch draw and 50@28 bows are too light. i wanted a two piece that didnt look like a two piece and i didnt want a radical thunderchild or shrew like deaign. I did add a few embellishments to my order which weren’t “needed”, but I figured what the heck...
And yes, i want another. A two piece Caribow wolverine with a burl veneer this time.
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Thanks to all for your comments so far...both pro and con...very insightful, and the voice of experience speaking!
I would like to clarify one thing; my shooting is for entertainment and my hunting generally limited to one week out of the year at present. I'm not dissatisfied with my shooting per se, and not looking for some new bow to be my 'magic bullet' to better shooting and more kills. I know the answer to that would be more practice and form work rather than a new bow.
I'm also not dissatisfied with any of my current bows, which include a vintage Grizzly, Kodiak Magnum, Kodiak Hunter, Tamerlane and a new Samick Sage take-down. Nor am I possessed by a burning desire for a "must-have" custom bow. It's just that lately, good friends are telling me that "I don't know what I'm missing", and it's making me ask myself..."AM I missing something, and if so, WHAT?"
I wouldn't be taking anything away from my family with the purchase of a custom paid for over the course of 6 months to a year, but truth be told, I don't even know what I would look for or what features would benefit me...plus the fact that for the price of an average custom I could buy 2 or 3 more used vintage bows has me scratching my head...
Anyway, I appreciate the input so far, and looking forward to more.
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Kirk, you should really consider going to the Trad show in Kalamazoo Michigan this next year. It's only a few hour drive for you and you could get your hands on more bows than you could imagine.
I would even offer to meet you there and show you around.
You could also get to meet some interesting people like, G Fred Asbell, Ron LaClair and possibly Jose Miller from Flatline Bows.
It would be well worth your time, no doubt you would be overwhelmed and remember the experience for the rest of your life.
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Originally posted by LBR:
Like most thing in this sport, the answer is "it depends".
I used to be a dealer for a custom bowyer. What makes a bow "custom" is even debateable. This particular bowyer didn't even call his bows "custom". He said he made "production bows with options", which was a more accurate description. A truly custom bow would have to be designed specifically for you from the ground up, and I don't know of anyone who offers that or anyone who could afford it if it were offered.
That was exactly my point. A bow with riser hand cut on a band-saw while the layup was held in a man's hand. String notches hand filed. Tillered by hand. Finished by hand.
That was the drill for "production" Damon/Howatts and early Wings.
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Hi Capt, first, never buy one you haven't handled, shot and love. The one you order may not have the same feel.
You may not even appreciate the increased speed some may offer. It will change your point of impact. Some may not even offer much extra speed.
There have only been a handful of custom bows I've tried that really would have been pleasing enough in all aspects for me to shell out the expense.
Years ago, I went to Cloverdale looking for that bow. Narrowed it down to 2 or 3 and then went to the car and pulled out an old 66" Browning Apollo I gave $5.00 for with twisted limbs that I straitened and shot it. Shot the others alongside it. One was faster but much twitchier. They were all prettier, but none really shot any better. So I ordered a long bow cause I wanted one, but the grip was so different that I was never happy with it.
We all go through this. For some it's part of the hobby, just buying and trading. They are good people to know. :) I've had just as much fun taking deer with the first recurve I bought in 1969 and with Dad's Browning Safari 1 and with my 1966 Bear Grizzly and really with all the bows on the rack. My old Hoyt TD-3 Warf has turned out to be the bow I go to for anything.
Craig
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What Graps says makes a lot of sense. Before his post, I was going to suggest that you shoot as many of the bows you’re interested in as possible, and what Graps is suggesting will give you a chance to do that.
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THAT's the answer.
The bow that feels right to you is the right bow for you. And one that starts right off putting arrows where you are looking tends to create an immediate attraction. Looks wear out but cooking don't.
I had a Dan Quillian Patriot recurve which I ordered from Dan hizzelf that would put an arrow through a water heater but I never found it pleasurable to shoot and it just wouldn't do what I asked. And I tried and tried. I sold it off for about what I paid for it. To a guy that loved it.
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Come to ETAR! It will really open your eyes to what's out there in trad bows. four tents full of bowyers and dealers. You can shoot until your arms fall off.
Mike
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Originally posted by Captain*Kirk:
Do I REALLY need a custom bow (at custom bow prices) when all I do is stumping, hunting, 3D and backyard shooting?
Is the quality of a custom really going to add (other than bragging rights) anything practical to my bowhunting and shooting experience that a vintage quality bow is lacking?
No and no.
The very best archers on the planet shoot "production" bows. Something to remember.
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No and no.
The very best archers on the planet shoot "production" bows. Something to remember.
That sums it up in a nutshell. I still love my Treadaway though, and plan to get one of Roy Hall's bows. Because I want to.
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I can shoot a black widow recurve better than any other bow Ive ever picked up. Also happens to be faster, quieter, and prettier than any of the others also. Take that for what it is
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Need is often an emotional item. Obviously, you shoot very well, so you don't need the custom bow as a means of performing better; however, pride of ownership may add an additional dimension to your experience that meets the "need" of having something that is uniquely yours.
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Originally posted by Graps:
Kirk, you should really consider going to the Trad show in Kalamazoo Michigan this next year. It's only a few hour drive for you and you could get your hands on more bows than you could imagine.
I would even offer to meet you there and show you around.
You could also get to meet some interesting people like, G Fred Asbell, Ron LaClair and possibly Jose Miller from Flatline Bows.
It would be well worth your time, no doubt you would be overwhelmed and remember the experience for the rest of your life.
That is a very tempting offer, Dale. Thank you!
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Imagine owning one bow...you can only have that one bow so you shoot that one bow and work around all things you may not specifically like about it. But dang your a good shot. Now think about if your in the position to own that bow but you can fix the tweaks you don't like about it? Draw weight too much? Not smooth? Grip not just right? Wish you had it only 2 in less? Customs aren't customs anymore bc you won't get a one off bow unless you make it yourself. But you can get a bow made for you. Length draw weight longbow recurve low wrist high wrist checkered 66in or 56in exotic woods or generic woods laminations or colored glass. That's the fun part! I have a new one being built. Boring where I want it exciting where I do! It'll be a bow I already own but at custom draw weight and diff woods. So it will be my bow
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I have several bows made by Custom Bowyers that I have purchased from various classifieds or Craigslist. I shoot some of these pretty well and have been concentrating on shooting a couple of the Longbows. I have one Custom bow that I had made for me years ago. It is Beautiful, Smooth, and flings the arrows. I have no Regrets about my Custom Recurve, but I just don't shoot as well with it as I do with my Martin Hatfield TD recurve.
My Hatfield has been my Go To Bow for the hunting season, year after year. I have more time in with the Hatfield and if I need accuracy and precision, I take the Hatfield. I can pick it up after not shooting it for Quite a while and the arrows go where I want them to go. :archer:
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If a stock Martin Hunter or a Bear Super Kodiak fits you just right, it is doubtful that another custom recurve will fit you much better. More often than not it is the grip that is off for an individual, that can be adjusted on most bows.
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Kalamazoo and ETAR are both great places to check out bows...and lots of other stuff. I'll be at both with BCY--we have a blast.
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Originally posted by Etter:
I can shoot a black widow recurve better than any other bow Ive ever picked up. Also happens to be faster, quieter, and prettier than any of the others also. Take that for what it is
I feel about the same. My PMA and PCH shoot great for me and I tend to shoot them better than other bows I've tried/owned. However, a Bear Grizzly and/or Super Kodiak have that same "just right" fit for me when it comes to draw force curve and grip. I think it boils down to properly matching the bow to the archer. If that is true than a made to order bow is not any better fit than a factory bow unless the archer knows just what design fits them best. However a lot of fun can had trying different bows in the process.
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Yes, you need a custom bow, because production bows do not sponsor this site!!! I like the fact that my bows were birthed in a fellow bow hunters wood shop. Classifieds, find what u like and then call up the maker and fine tune. Good luck
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I would consider letting someone else take the hit on a new custom bow....find it a few months later on the TG Classifieds, and get it for less money.
Or, travel to a big event and try out lots of different bows to avoid 'buyer's remorse' because when you hold them in your hand it's a pretty good bet you'll like what you're buying a lot more.
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If you want one you should have one, what we all think matters not.
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No, there is no need for a custom bow, your old Bears, Howatts, etc will do the same thing for less money. :nono:
Having said that, I've owned many customs over the past 20 years. Many are a joy to behold with the beautiful woods and top notch craftsmanship. The reality however is that the Damon Howatt Coronado that my Dad gave me in 1972 is just as accurate and shoots about as hard as any Widow, 'Tip, Dye, etc I've owned. We shoot the arrow and the shooter is the main factor.
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I have never understood that dang near new custom for sale thing. You read about poeple all excited about the new custom that waited a long time to get. Then the showing of the prize and everyone oohs and aahs over the pretty bow, it is declared the best ever, then a short time later they show up for sale. I have four bows that I ooh and aah over, and no, you cannot shoot them, they are mine.
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If you purchase a custom bow from a truly custom maker that builds the bow to your specific grip style and shooting style and to perform maximumly at your exact draw then it may be worth it to you. Other than that a semi custom that has a standard grip and a generic draw length that has nice woods and good craftsmanship will cost much less and will probably be a step or two above what you can go buy off the shelf. In fact many of these are very competitive to over the counter bows.
One more thing is that you cannot judge any custom builder by a second hand bow that was truly built in a specific way for another person. It may be the worst bow in the world for you and not fit or work for you as well as a generic .
God bless, Steve
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Originally posted by mec lineman:
Yes, you need a custom bow, because production bows do not sponsor this site!!!
Tell that to 3Rivers, Big Jim's, Bob Lee, Dryad, Kustom King, Lost Nation, VPA, etc.. ;)
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Well, I guess I have time to ponder on this for a while now as over the weekend I bought a second Tamerlane. There goes my deposit money!LOL
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Another thought...a well made string can make a huge difference in how a bow shoots. I've seen some of the most expensive custom bows on the market delivered with a junk string...makes no sense to me.
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Originally posted by LBR:
Another thought...a well made string can make a huge difference in how a bow shoots. I've seen some of the most expensive custom bows on the market delivered with a junk string...makes no sense to me.
I remember a discussion on here about 10 years ago, shortly after I joined TradGang. Some bowyer was asking for opinions as to what people expected to get with their new custom bow. He suggested just sending a new bow out without a string, since “most people were just going to put another string on it anyway.” Made about as much sense to me as sending out a new car without a steering wheel on it.
As you note, I think this feeling persists, and some bowyers throw in a junk string in a sealed package without stringing up the bow with it to see if it really fits. I’ve had new bows sent with strings that were too long and too short, even though marked to fit the bow.
I would imagine most people will use the string that comes with the bow, if it can be made to fit, even if it is too short to untwist to the correct brace height, so long it has to be overtwisted before the first use, or less than optimal in more subtle ways, like too many strands, suboptimal material, etc. This is a shame, because it means the purchaser may never get the maximum performance out of his new bow, and is something that would have been so easy to correct!
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Spot on McDave. They are shooting themselves in the foot. Makes no sense to me to put a junk string on ANY bow, but putting one on a bow that costs $1,000 - $2,000? That's nuts, but not uncommon.
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When you are like me to get the best performance I don't have much of a choice but to get custom with my short draw. I totally agree about the bow strings.
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Custom or production is kind of a personal choice.
I buy mostly custom, because I like the looks and feel of certain bows. The wait for new bows is a killer for the patience impaired like me.
I sure would like to buy more off the classifieds. With a longer draw, and dropping weight due to age; left handed used custom bows at my specs. are like hens teeth.
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Of course you don't have to have a custom..
Will it make you shoot better? that's entirely up to you. Will it give you more confidence? only if it feels better.. looks better or whatever it is about it that makes it yours.
But without that confidence, it doesn't matter who made it or how new it is, your not going to shoot any better than your last one.
Then you've got those guys who exude confidence and they can take any bow and shoot it well.
or
The guys with no confidence that have tried every bow in the country and can only shoot on tuesday's if they have a bow with the grip that is just so and arrows that are 3 spines too stiff. Ooops, this one isn't magic, time for a new one.
It all works ok for me.. see, i'm here to feed the addiction.
Want a new custom or mfg bow? I can handle that.
Want a used custom or mfg bow? I have that too
Want to trade or sell all those bows you built up trying to figure this thing out... step in to my office :)
Let me introduce my self...They call me, BigJim
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Originally posted by BigJim:
Of course you don't have to have a custom..
Will it make you shoot better? that's entirely up to you. Will it give you more confidence? only if it feels better.. looks better or whatever it is about it that makes it yours.
But without that confidence, it doesn't matter who made it or how new it is, your not going to shoot any better than your last one.
Then you've got those guys who exude confidence and they can take any bow and shoot it well.
or
The guys with no confidence that have tried every bow in the country and can only shoot on tuesday's if they have a bow with the grip that is just so and arrows that are 3 spines too stiff. Ooops, this one isn't magic, time for a new one.
It all works ok for me.. see, i'm here to feed the addiction.
Want a new custom or mfg bow? I can handle that.
Want a used custom or mfg bow? I have that too
Want to trade or sell all those bows you built up trying to figure this thing out... step in to my office :)
Let me introduce my self...They call me, BigJim
Greatest post on TG right now :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
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As far as that just so so grip. I have found that with custom or standard recurves, there are lot of different grips out there and most of them are odd in one way or the other. However, a rasp and sandpaper will make any one of them custom. I am not a big fan of metal and phenolic grips. You can fix phenolic, but stinks funny when using a power sander on it.
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I agree with Jhawk on this question. Absolutely! Lots of fabulous used "customs" made custom for someone, and way less cost than new. And as Jhawk said, if it doesn't "fit" you, a "quality" custom in a draw weight under 50#, is pretty easy to sell or trade. Best of luck to you!
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Originally posted by BigJim:
Of course you don't have to have a custom..
Will it make you shoot better? that's entirely up to you. Will it give you more confidence? only if it feels better.. looks better or whatever it is about it that makes it yours.
But without that confidence, it doesn't matter who made it or how new it is, your not going to shoot any better than your last one.
Then you've got those guys who exude confidence and they can take any bow and shoot it well.
or
The guys with no confidence that have tried every bow in the country and can only shoot on tuesday's if they have a bow with the grip that is just so and arrows that are 3 spines too stiff. Ooops, this one isn't magic, time for a new one.
It all works ok for me.. see, i'm here to feed the addiction.
Want a new custom or mfg bow? I can handle that.
Want a used custom or mfg bow? I have that too
Want to trade or sell all those bows you built up trying to figure this thing out... step in to my office :)
Let me introduce my self...They call me, BigJim
Well, with that post you just moved to the top of my list for future custom bow consideration, Big Jim! :thumbsup:
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I've had a number of custom bows, I had a couple of Whips, one custom bow out of Texas, and I got my fourth 1 from Chad holm. just 2 weeks ago. I have had 17 bows in all.
I stopped hunting, and shooting stick bows because of shoulder problems. Now thankfully are solved. The first person I went back to was Chad Holm, I've had 3 custom bows from him, and 1 of his off the classified on Trad Gang.
I personally think, the equipment you have and how are you use it, is totally mental. You train your muscles, your habits, and your repetitiveness on perfection. And thankfully it takes time and practice. Your bow and your arrow become an extension of yourself.
Many have said, a custom bow can make you have a completely different attitude about your shooting. You know you spent good money for that bow, so you'll pay closer attention how are you using it. IF, the bow is set to your body and style, you have got 2 thirds of the problem solved. I picked Chad holm to make my Bows, because he greets me like a brother, and every time I see him he's like an old-time friend. He live about two hours from me, and his bow making skills sure do match his personality and talent. For me personally, it means a lot to know the man behind the making of the bow. To some, it is all about the wood used to make the bow.
But I think you were given good advice, I think you should go to Michigan. You'll get a chance to meet the maker of the Bows, and you will get to try the Bows first hand. Matter fact that's how I met Chad, at a traditional shoot in Anoka Minnesota.(Bunker Hill traditional archery club)
And when you go to Michigan to try those bows, leave your emotions at home. The only thing you should pack for the trip, is money and common sense lol.
Good luck on your search Sir !
DS
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Its not about need. Its not about a custom bow making you more accurate.
You can do just as well with a $150 used bow that you get here on Trad Gang. Practice hard on your form and you can soot any decent bow that fits you with a high level of accuracy.
Its about what you want and how much you can afford to spend. If you have the money, Go for it!
Me, I get my kicks out of shooting tight groups with a used DH Hunter I bought here and a budget takedown I picked up new for $150.
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As a new archer shopping for a bow 18 years ago, all the used customs had too-heavy draw weights for my 30+” draw. All the vintage bows were a combination of too short and too heavy. I didn’t know about tradgang. So shopping the racks at shoots in the SE, bowyers websites and brochures from friends, etc., I got hooked on the craftsmanship and fine detail work over the basic bows.
A fellow local club member had a Brackenbury, and I loved the lines and the feel. It was not for sale, and I’ve never actually seen another in person. Researching Brackenburies I found Wes Wallace and Norm Johnson. Both extremely personable men with outstanding reputations as bowyers.
I wound up placing my order for my first Blacktail after talking at length with Norm, I was frankly in awe of the detail work. His order policy meant if I didn’t like the bow, I could send it back and only be out the deposit. I figured this was the best way to get into a bow made to the specs I wanted at nearly no risk to me. But it left me with a year wait, and no bow to shoot. I e-auction-bought a 64” Gull Wing that was a reasonable performer, stable and forgiving, but otherwise uninspiring. I also found a plain gray Bob Lee takedown on the 'bay. The Bob Lee was like new, and I shot quite well with it. After the Blacktail was delivered, I sold the Bob Lee to a friend looking to get into archery. He got to start with a fine bow for a good price.
I’ve since ordered more bows built my way, and finally found a vintage bow like I wanted back in summer camp 30 years ago, and I got it right here on tradgang’s 2017 St. Jude auction. If I’d found that 38# 64” Kodak Special when my search began, who knows where I’d be now...
In any case, while need and want aren’t the same thing, they aren’t mutually exclusive either. The joy in using functional art that does more than hang on a wall.... the appreciation of craftsmanship...
So it’s persanal. What makes yer putter flutter?
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Originally posted by BigJim:
Of course you don't have to have a custom..
Will it make you shoot better? that's entirely up to you. Will it give you more confidence? only if it feels better.. looks better or whatever it is about it that makes it yours.
But without that confidence, it doesn't matter who made it or how new it is, your not going to shoot any better than your last one.
Then you've got those guys who exude confidence and they can take any bow and shoot it well.
or
The guys with no confidence that have tried every bow in the country and can only shoot on tuesday's if they have a bow with the grip that is just so and arrows that are 3 spines too stiff. Ooops, this one isn't magic, time for a new one.
It all works ok for me.. see, i'm here to feed the addiction.
Want a new custom or mfg bow? I can handle that.
Want a used custom or mfg bow? I have that too
Want to trade or sell all those bows you built up trying to figure this thing out... step in to my office :)
Let me introduce my self...They call me, BigJim
Pure Greatness!!!
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In order to get the personality of a particular bow, a shooter needs to shoot it for a while. I say minimum 6 month. Other things like a fitting grip can be determined pretty much right away, but how forgiving a bow is and if it shoots where you look and if it is tunable to your style cannot be determined after 5 min of shooting with questionable matched arrows at a shoot or show. What a large shoot does is narrowing down the choices and options to your liking.
If you buy used, ask the right questions about grip for example first. Pictures cannot replace measurements. Most sellers have no problems using a tape measure.
Is your draw length less than standard or much longer than standard, a custom bow will offer you generally either a smoother draw or more suitable working limb length than a standard.
Want to shoot a 58" Red Wing hunter with a true 30" draw? I bet you will experience stacking.
What a person needs is defined by the person aside from food, shelter, clothes...