We are hosting the IBO's Mid America-Traditional Archery Championship in Noblesville, Indiana April 28-30, 2017. This is the first large Trad. event that I've planned. I see the gang is great for sharing ideas, and opinions, and I welcome ideas on how you would run this event if it were yours...any comments are sincerely appreciated. IE. People to contact, donations, games, set-up, etc. I'm new to Trad., but have been welcomed with open arms, and I truly want to build a tradition and community around this event. I've got a lot to work with except $. It was a huge investment to buy the rinehart targets for this event. see our website koteewiarchery.com for more info on the property. It's a very historical property, rich in native american history and it's owned by the county. So, I have to get everything approved thru them. Thanks gang!!!
Welcome to the Gang!
The IBO Mid America shoot was down here in Texas the last 2 years, and is a fantastic shoot. For some unknown reason, the folks down here did not embrace the IBO format, and they had to move on. Down here, it was run just about like the IBO World Trad shoot. We had 2-20 target IBO round courses and a separate hunter challenge course. We also had a team event on Sat night just like they do at the World shoot. This is a great shoot and tournament format, and I hope you guys get the support needed to keep it going!
Good luck!
Bisch
First suggestion would be set the targets at realistic Trad distances.
Thank You for the information Bisch! Do you mind anwsering 2 quick questions? 1.)Was it in a trail format or pull and retrieve? 2.)Which do you think most Mid America shooters prefer?
Thanks again!
QuoteOriginally posted by David Friendly Bear:
Thank You for the information Bisch! Do you mind anwsering 2 quick questions? 1.)Was it in a trail format or pull and retrieve? 2.)Which do you think most Mid America shooters prefer?
Thanks again!
I do not understand what you are asking me here? Talk with Levy Bryant at IBO, and he can fill you in on the IBO format. I'm pretty sure the IBO would want the shoot to follow their tournament format.
Bisch
Thank you too! achigan!
Thanks!!! I've been talking to Levy, we spend more time trying to get ahold of each other, than we do talking. Lol. Levy has been great! great though. I'm just trying to get ideas, and imput from others too. Thanks Again!
A pull and return is easier to lay out, but it takes longer to shoot a course (extra back and forth times do add up) and thus will slow the whole shoot down. Depending on the terrain and space available, pull and return sometimes is the only choice. Our club does normally not lay out pull and return courses (all archery types) and it normally keeps it flowing pretty good.
All IBO traditional distances are realistic.
A typical problem with traditional shoots and scoring is, that in order to make it competitive, you need to make it harder. That often does turn off the "I shoot for fun crowd".
This is best addressed using an appropriate scoring system, but since this is an IBO event, you will have to follow their scoring system.
One stake and 10,8,5,0 unfortunately do not much to train your shooting ability.
Good luck with the shoot!
Thanks Tecum-tha! Thats good info. Since you're a local guy. You might know John Fort? He's helping me with this event too. Thanks again! Let me know if you come up with any more recommendations.
It will be of interest to me if it follows the IBO protocols.
I prefer pull and return for safety reasons.
Thanks bowwild! and that's a great quote there too! We will follow IBO rules as the contract states. I really want everyone to have a great time and grow this event and keep it here.
I much, MUCH prefer a trail type of set-up to pull and return.
can someone educate me on the trail vs pull and return?
Trail means you can Shoot, walk down and pull your arrow, and then go to the next target. Pull and return means you shoot, walk down and pull the arrows, then return to the trail and walk to the next target. Ojibwa Bowhunters in Wisconsin has the best trails I've ever shot.
Cloverdale has the best 3D shoot I have been to anywhere and most of the shots are trail type set-ups and the course is very safe so you can have both safety and convenience. Of course, terrain has something to do with how you can set up.
I guess I have never seen or shot a trail style. It does sound fun though.
The trail set-up saves time. Things move along faster.
Most fixed courses or courses in state parks use pull and return. Our local club sets up different trail style courses every time. You will never shoo the same shot or same target in the same spot. It sure takes more planning and labor to install a different trail every time instead of putting in animals in cut out lines off a trail. Sometimes, a pull and return is needed on a trail course, too. Just mark it clearly on the station marker sign. Trails also allow the use of natural vegetation to be an obstacle. In regular pull and return courses, all shots are "interstate" shots, as everything is cut out because the modern crowd shoots there,too.
A trail style course still needs to be laid out with safety being No.1.
I shot to Koteewi range at the Grand opening. Great place but the 3D course was not set up for Trad at all. If it has not changed you have work to do. I am not bashing at all and willing to help out and give you some input. The course location, venue and new targets could add up to a great event for sure!! Pm me with your contact info. I do plan to attend the shoot.
Also, contact whomever puts on Cloverdale and maybe Dave Jarvis the former president of Compton traditional bowhunters since their rendevous in MI is done so well.
QuoteOriginally posted by David Mitchell:
I much, MUCH prefer a trail type of set-up to pull and return.
Absolutely! Pull and return is like shooting in your back yard, to repetitious and monotonous. The trail is more realistic as far as hunting situations go.
We live in Noblesville and shoot koteewi all the time. It isn't the best layout and can be a problem if a target is missed. The course is flat and most of it is rather swampy with water immediately behind. However, it isn't the worse course by far. I think that with time and input they will learn to make the course more interesting and put more consideration into what is behind the targets.
This will be our 6th year to do the IBO World and have always done shoot and return ,never had any complaints. We set the targets at a reasonable distance and the best shooters will come to the top anyway ,but also everyone has fun and don't loose a bunch of arrows or spend time looking for them. Good luck with the event. A little different format than most shoots but still a lot of fun and some great shooting.
Pappy
"realistic trad distances"
I always love hearing that. Believe it or not, but you can kill past 15 yards.
Pappy,
your farm is hilly and different enough that the pull and return is ok. You can put targets in so many different positions off the trails, that it is not an issue. Offers also plenty of backstops. Still, it is sometimes a little more open that it needs to be. The TAS championships are a little brushy, and others are often too open. As an example: a slightly shorter hunting bow will generally do better in real life hunting and in courses where you have to shoot through or close to natural obstacles (overhanging branches etc.). In very open courses, a longer bow will be more accurate and no problem to shoot. In an more obstacled course, longer bows can be more difficult to shoot. The IBO course when Heavy Hunter class was still there, the last 20 targets on Sunday setup in the further end small piece of woods where the regular courses haven't been, was a nice setup along and off the "road". In reality, a good trad course is much easier to set up in hilly terrain because there are more natural backstops. Twin Oaks is hilly, Cloverdale is hilly (at least the course area. Flat courses are hard to set up that it is realistic and a joy to shoot for 40 targets.
A problem lately is more the concentration of all traditional shoots within 3 hours drive of my place. You hardly can't get to all of them.
Example: TAS Worlds last weekend, KY TradFest this weekend, IBO Midwest end of April, a week later TN Classic. ITBA Shoot May 20. You still need to get to your local club shoots,too. It gets busy and I don't know if all these shoots are not watering down the crowds.
I would talk to pappy from Twin Oaks, he does excellent job at Trad Worlds. My 2 cents would be to mix it up, don't make every shot 22-25 yds., that gets boring quick. Give us a 12 yard coyote then a 25 yd elk with an 18 yd deer. Someone mentioned only one stake for Trad, there are two(white max 25 yds) and (orange 30 yd max).
I hear ya Roland on the so many shoots, we have been doing it for 20+ years and shoots just keep popping up every year. When we started their was Cloverdale and the KY Classic that were pretty close, a few more scattered here and there but that was it. We try to mix range up it up a bit some clear and some with more in the way but it is still hard to set a 40 target course with ever shot looking natural.
Pappy
Thank you all!!! Your opinion, contacts, and ideas are very appreciated. Also, thank you for answering questions and sharing info to others for me! I hope to have everything completely laid out by mid next week and will post it. I think I have a plan that suits almost everybody.
Hi Gang!!! I just wanted to give everyone an fyi: I've see a few references in posts, & PM's referring to distances and targets, as well as the getting bored with some targets. When I went to place the rinehart order originally, we ordered at least one of every target that had an IBO scoring rings...Well we later found out that our discount for holding a national level event; only covered certain targets. Therefore we had to change our order, to save several thousand dollars! That is why you will see out of the 60+ targets, you'll see some of the animals 2-3 times. Sorry, not my fault!
Yes we always set 3 sets of 20, same targets on each course just set in different settings.
Pappy
IBO Mid America Update: Heres what I have planned! Let me know your thoughts!
Fri. April 28: Reg. opens @ 9 AM., comp ranges @ 10AM close 6PM.
Sat. April 29: Reg. opens @ 8 AM., comp ranges @ 9AM Close 6PM.
Sun. April 30: Reg. opens @ 8 AM., comp ranges @
9AM Close 12:00 (Noon)
Everyone should be on the road around 2:00.
------------------------------------------------
Fri. Activities...Competition All Day, Areial disc shoot, long distance shoot, practice ranges, and bowhunter challenge range open until 6PM daily. After 5:00, Offical time TBD: coon shoot 10 targets.
Sat. Activities...competition all day, aerial disc shoot, long distance shoot, practice ranges, bowhunter challenge range, open all day until 6PM. After 6 PM TBD. we will shoot a smoker round. followed by an additional 20 target coon shoot.
Sun. Activities...Shoot-Off: 10AM top 10 shooters in each class will have shoot off for Plaques & prizes for the top 3 in ea. All other activities open until NOON. awards and drawings Aprx. 1:00.
------------------------------------------------
Costs: $15.00 for 1 day/$35:00 whole event, for competition.
Food:B,L,D will be provided on-site by Backwater Legacies a local 501 C (3) non-profit that specializes in Outdoor Education and youth development.
Commerative t-shirts will be available for purchase.
Long Distance shoots will be a 50% payback.
Aerial Disc shoot will be $5 for 5 tries. awards to people hitting the bullseye. This $ also goes to the non-profit.
Smoker round will have 1 winner. entry costs $5
Coon Shoot will have 1 winner. entry costs $10
Children under 10 may shoot novelties for no cost
Other on property amenaties: Horse back riding, aerial adventure tours (Zip lines, etc.), camping on property, trophy small mouth bass fishing, canoe, kayak, or wade. History museum/nature center, hike (8.25 miles of trails) bike, animal watching, etc.
Sounds like a good plan to me.
Pappy
QuoteOriginally posted by pappy:
Sounds like a good plan to me.
Pappy
Thanks Pappy!!! I'm going to try to get off work and come down for the worlds and see what I can learn from how you do things.
Just a reminder that this starts tomorrow. By the way, will groups of family and friends who have no interest in turning in a scorecard be busted up or not have access to the competition ranges?
We shoot 3d courses nearly every weekend and enjoyed enough good scores. Besides, my wife and youngest son already have more traphies than I do. We primarily enjoy shooting and hunting as a family thing. While we enjoy the camaraderie and occasionally shooting with others, our family time means something more. So, just curious.
My apologies Witherstick...I just saw your post, with the weather, I was working 18 hrs a day to get things ready. But for future reference Koteewi Sport & Target Archery Center is owned by the Hamilton Co. Parks & Recreation Dept.so we are all about children and families. We welcome families, friends, and spectators at all of our events. We believe it inspires others to give it a try. The exception is on some ASA shoots. The have some no walkers/spectators rule at some of their championships. I'd also like to point out that there is a lot to do on property besides the archery ranges. (hiking, horse back riding, fishing-for trophy smallmouth bass, nature and archaeology programs). Please look me up the next time you're in!