I'm careful what I post on modern Bowsites but among traditional bow hunters I talked quite a bit about hunting areas and don't keep too many secrets unless I'm asked to.
Sooo...
I was checking out Idaho success rates in over-the-counter units. Why does no one go to Idaho!? Everyone talks about Colorado
I'm planning to go to Colorado hoping to draw a mule deer tag this year, but am curious about some of you folks who go to Idaho and other states besides Colorado for OTC hunting on public land. I'd like to try another state sometime
we like it when people go to Colorado.
I hunted idaho in 2015 and had a great time. There were several bulls bugling and we were in elk everday, it just never came together. I will definitely go back in the future. I just think colorado gets more attention since its more centrally located and has the largest elk population.
Yes. Would like to hear from anyone having hunted elk in ID. I'm going the first week of Sept. using Weitas Creek Outfitters. They operate under a special use permit in the Nez-Perce, Clearwater National Forest, I.D.F.G. Unit 10.
"Why does no one go to Idaho!"
There are plenty of people going to Idaho. I'd say the hunting pressure there was on par with what I've seen in Colorado, maybe even a little more. At least in the unit I hunted. I also found I had a much harder time out walking the pressure in Idaho...Even packing in 8 or more miles wasn't enough to get away from the pressure. In Colorado I've seldom had that problem. I did see plenty of elk including a few whoppers though. I think you can have a great hunt in either state but I wouldn't count on going to Idaho (or any OTC area) and finding light hunting pressure.
QuoteOriginally posted by highlow:
Yes. Would like to hear from anyone having hunted elk in ID. I'm going the first week of Sept. using Weitas Creek Outfitters. They operate under a special use permit in the Nez-Perce, Clearwater National Forest, I.D.F.G. Unit 10.
Never hunted elk with Gary, but I have hunted spring bear with him, and he seems to know a thing or two about elk. I'm betting you will have a good time, and Gary is a trad archer.
DT. My experience has been just the opposite, kind of. The area I used to hunt in Colorado is now overrun with hunters. Grand Mesa area. Can no longer remember the specific unit.
In truth, also happened in Idaho, a bit northeast of McCall. Had some real good hunts there about 25-28 years ago, but then there was a big forest fire. Firefighters put in a lot of roads to fight the fires, and they weren't closed off to atvs and trail bikes after the fires. Just overrun with hunters and off road vehicles 20 years later, ab out a half-dozenyears ago. Won't go back there.
Hunting another area in south central Idaho now, where off road vehicles aren't permitted. Tougher to get into. Have an outfitter pack us in now, but not much competition with other hunters even though there are quite a few in the area. Killed a rag horn three years ago. Close, but no cigar the past two. Going back there again this year.
It's a long haul from Wisconsin to Idaho, about 1,600 miles for me. Colorado is about 1,000. Two long days of driving each way gets a little tiring.
Regardless, Idaho's tags are still reasonable, and, unlike most other states, one can shoot a wolf, bear or cougar on one's elk or mule deer tag. So one can be hunting five species at once. That being said, chances of seeing a wolf or cougar are pretty slim I did pass on a black bear two years ago.
QuoteOriginally posted by DarkTimber:
"Why does no one go to Idaho!"
There are plenty of people going to Idaho. I'd say the hunting pressure there was on par with what I've seen in Colorado, maybe even a little more. At least in the unit I hunted. I also found I had a much harder time out walking the pressure in Idaho...Even packing in 8 or more miles wasn't enough to get away from the pressure. In Colorado I've seldom had that problem. I did see plenty of elk including a few whoppers though. I think you can have a great hunt in either state but I wouldn't count on going to Idaho (or any OTC area) and finding light hunting pressure.
Looking at the numbers on both fish and game websites shows significantly higher hunter numbers in Colorado and lower success rates too
One word answer "wolves"
They have wiped out a great elk herd and made it foolish to spend your money in Idaho.
Mike
there are elk here just no were near as many as 10 years ago. the wolves are putting a hurt on the population. southern Idaho has a better population than in the north. the north end is getting pretty bad. the moose are all but gone, they have finally reduced tags and the elk hunting is going down fast. still elk to hunt but fewer every year. they are now going to wipe out our cow population because the bull cow ratios are off. between the wolves and our spike hunts the bull population is very low. not uncommon to see a herd of 30 cows with no bull in September and October.
idaho is a big state with a lot of different country...up north its wall to wall timber and brushy...central part is somewhat thinner timber and less brush...south is much more open and more orv's
i have no experiance in the south...one example of recent years in the salmon region is 6 tags in and 6 bulls out (2008) fallowing year 6 tags in and 6 tags out...that was a two week pack in hunt...wolves wolves and more wolves.
up norht we have lost 2 weeks of our season...1 week off the early season and 1 week off the late season and the whole season is bulls only !!!...we have had draw cow tags the last 5 years in some units...this year starts a new 5 year plan and the plan doesn't include more season or cows EXCEPT on or within 1 mile of private grownd (in some units) for 7 days in sept only.
we are allowed 5 wolf tags but they are very hard to hunt in heavy timber...fish and game cant even kill them from the air...
we can buy non res tags at a discount if we buy before the season opens...back about 10 years ago there were no leftover n/r tags.
so why doesn't anyone hunt idaho :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
It pains me to see so much blame of wolves. It's as if habitat loss, lack of fire, increased technology and a host of other issues are just background noise. Wolves, elk, moose, grizzlies and humans once thrived together. All of those species are drastically down in their populations except one -- us. And yet we still think wolves and other apex predators are the problem. Oh well. So sad.
I think the science proves wolves are having an impact... a larger impact is the increase in hunters and specifically bowhunters using mechanical bows and crossbows now being legal where range/accuracy is far beyond that of a traditional bow when the season was first developed as a primitive weapon season due to the challenge. Same is being seen in blackpowder where modern blackpowder rifles have little more than name in common with theweapons the seasons were developed to support. Especially with technology allowing modern shooters to reach out beyond 200 yds with scopes, sabot bullets, pelletized moisture resistant propellant and shotgun primer caps that burn very hot. THe days of iron sights with loose powder and ball or conical projectiles is a thing of the past except for a few of us. Encroachment, habitat, hunters, technology...and wolves all are making an impact.
THere was a study by Idaho that listed their findings and modern technology was definitely noted as a player in increasing successful hunts...
Brock, you make a very valid point!
Brock - all points taken. I don't doubt that wolves are having an impact. But they're supposed to. I lament that their impact is seen as a problem in the ecosystem rather than a statement of its health.
For 190,000 years, we humans knew this -- world-wide. A lot of good wisdom has been lost over the last 10,000 years. But that tale would take many campfires to tell.
not sure why some say the wolf is not to blame. if anyone had been in north Idaho and Montana in the late 70 and early 80 there were hardly any elk they were reintroduced in the early 80. as the herds took hold the population exploded. up in till the time the wolf population exploded, from reintroduction which I believe started in about 88. the wolf is to blame also the lack of logging does not help.
we all want to blame something or someone...after 50 seasons here in the panhandle of idaho i will say that we have had other isssues and fixed them...wolves we are having a hard time managing.
1. i killed my first elk in 66...the population was just really taking off...VERY FEW HUNTERS !!!
2. the 70's saw a big increase in hunter numbers...but elk population kept growing due to lots of winter feed in clear cuts.
3. lots of roads for logging ment easy access...bad for elk...so fish and game and forest service worked togeather to close roads...good for elk and better hunting for guys like me that use horses.
4. tree huggers changed the logging industry to where clear cuts are a thing of the past...so goes elk winter feed.
5. compounds made a big differance in % of kill...in the 70 it was 3% average...dont know what it was 5 years ago when we lost part of our season and went bulls only...idaho has allowed 80% letoff compounds in reasont years so women and kids could partisapate more easily...
6. we also have several 2 bear areas and n/r can use there elk and deer tags for predators if they so chose...
7. fish and game is mandated to manage elk for excess animals for hunting...thats where the money comes from not from predator hunting.
for what it's worth to those of you who have never been hear or lived throught the good bad and ugly take my word for it...IT AINT GETTING BETTER !!!
If you anchor on 1960s-level populations being the norm, then things are undoubtedly horrible today. The increase of wolves, mountain lions, etc. correlate with the decline and undoubtedly contribute to it.
Biologists I've read and spoken with say that the 1960s were abnormally high for game numbers only because there were too few predators at the time to keep the prey in balance. Hunting was needed to accomplish what other predators used to do. I think some of us like things this way -- more for us. I get it. And as times get tough, it's time to kill off the competition. Obviously, I don't agree. But I get it.
But from 1960 to today, the US population has almost doubled and a lot of habitat has been lost. Blaming predators for a decline in prey populations is like the stereotypical wife, while spending lavishly on herself, blames the husband for not making enough money and causing their financial woes. While it may be somewhat true, it just ain't the whole story.
yosemitesam...dont want to upset the apple cart here but you obviously did NOT read what i said...in 1966 the elk population was not at a all time high...what i said was it was just taking off...most serious elk hunters hunted the clear water area and south in those days not up here...im talking about north idaho (panhandle region) not anywhere else...(remember im a life long local res)
yes the human population has grown a lot in the last 50 years ...BUT...we have not lost any habitat because its mostly national forest with a healthy amount of corp timber ground in some area...timber companys continue to clear cut whitch provides brows for elk while on national forest it is outlawed...yes clear cuts are ugly.
truth be told there are more elk close to town now than ever before...not huntable for most people...theres a hurd of 30ish running around out on the rathdrum prairie for all to see and a smaller hurd in my back yard...this is new in the last 10 years or so...yes the wolves have followed.
remember we are talking about why no one is talking about hunting elk in idaho...facts are facts...ive lived it and i will go out on a limb and say you have not...i dont know who you have talked to or read but PLEASE LISTEN to the facts...most of your argument doesnt hold water as far as this area is concerned.
https://vimeo.com/86466357
like the man said in the begining of the vidio NO HUNTING IN YELLOWSTONE PARK...
this thread is about WHY nobody talks about idaho ELK HUNTING !!!
the answer IN PART to the question is lack of elk to hunt and the reason IN PART for that is wolves.
just stating the facts not bashing dogs!!!
QuoteOriginally posted by durp:
yosemitesam...dont want to upset the apple cart here but you obviously did NOT read what i said...in 1966 the elk population was not at a all time high...what i said was it was just taking off...most serious elk hunters hunted the clear water area and south in those days not up here...im talking about north idaho (panhandle region) not anywhere else...(remember im a life long local res)
yes the human population has grown a lot in the last 50 years ...BUT...we have not lost any habitat because its mostly national forest with a healthy amount of corp timber ground in some area...timber companys continue to clear cut whitch provides brows for elk while on national forest it is outlawed...yes clear cuts are ugly.
truth be told there are more elk close to town now than ever before...not huntable for most people...theres a hurd of 30ish running around out on the rathdrum prairie for all to see and a smaller hurd in my back yard...this is new in the last 10 years or so...yes the wolves have followed.
remember we are talking about why no one is talking about hunting elk in idaho...facts are facts...ive lived it and i will go out on a limb and say you have not...i dont know who you have talked to or read but PLEASE LISTEN to the facts...most of your argument doesnt hold water as far as this area is concerned.
You're talking local and you're the expert there. I'm talking national. And I'm no expert.
QuoteOriginally posted by YosemiteSam:
Brock - all points taken. I don't doubt that wolves are having an impact. But they're supposed to. I lament that their impact is seen as a problem in the ecosystem rather than a statement of its health.
For 190,000 years, we humans knew this -- world-wide. A lot of good wisdom has been lost over the last 10,000 years. But that tale would take many campfires to tell.
Our ecosystem has survived just fine without wooly mammoths and other extinct species.
...I might add that sport hunting is a necessity when the keystone species such as wolves and grizzly bears do not exist. Hunting will fail to be needed as a management tool with their re-introduction and this is a dangerous thread for sportsman to dangle from!
Don't get me wrong I think wolves are cool as heck but they replace the need for myself as a hunter/manager.
Here is something I posted back in February of last year.....when things like wolves but more importantly technology was discussed and how they impact elk management in Idaho.
They were looking at adjusting the quotas and seasons accordingly based on the effect of technology to ensure they are not over harvested. A couple items of note...Rifles have stayed pretty much consistent with a slight still almost flat change. The significant impact to be noted is with Modern Archery and Modern Muzzleloading weapons.
Page 19 shows, how range finders and high-tech scopes "help judge distance for rifle hunters but also encourages less practice for those long range shots...while increasing success rates in some habitats, which can lead to reduced opportunity."
Also stated "Technology has made bows and muzzleloaders shoot faster, farther, and with greater accuracy. Increasing success rates in archery and muzzleloader hunts to nearly equal the rifle harvest success rates in some elk zones of Idaho (Fig.2), raises the question, "What constitutes a 'primitive' weapon?"
So it all has an impact including wolves...but technology may be one of the largest.
A lot of guys that live in these areas...site wolves, technology, out of state hunters and big money "ranch" buyers and the marketers of the hunting industry as all to blame for lower numbers.
Very informative report...can be read here in entirety.
https://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/wi ... n_body.pdf
That being said...wolves have a significant impact on elk herds that are already hard hunted by humans or impacted by habitat destruction or other outside influencers or even disease. The wolves make it hard for them to recover as quickly or if at all so states like Idaho then go in and kill a dozen or two wolves from a pack to give the local prey animals a chance to recover.
It never ends.. http://idfg.idaho.gov/public/docs/wolves/articleHowling.pdf
Let's go.
my father is a expert, he is a retiered wildlife biologist from here and he has stated that the introduction of wolves and lack of timber management has been the decline of the elk, moose mule deer and whitetail. he also said that the reintroduction of the wolf was not a option it was shoved down there throats by the feds
QuoteOriginally posted by Michael Arnette:
]Our ecosystem has survived just fine without wooly mammoths and other extinct species.
...I might add that sport hunting is a necessity when the keystone species such as wolves and grizzly bears do not exist. Hunting will fail to be needed as a management tool with their re-introduction and this is a dangerous thread for sportsman to dangle from!
Don't get me wrong I think wolves are cool as heck but they replace the need for myself as a hunter/manager.
I'd like to address that but, as has been pointed out, I hijacked the thread and it's now way off topic. Anybody care to continue this as a separate thread? Maybe under the Legislation and Policy forum?
I'm good
No need to continue as a separate thread Sam. All the posts are germane to the topic, even though there is no empirical evidence pro or con, re: wolves and their effect on elk numbers.
Makes for some interesting reading.
QuoteOriginally posted by highlow:
No need to continue as a separate thread Sam. All the posts are germane to the topic, even though there is no empirical evidence pro or con, re: wolves and their effect on elk numbers.
Makes for some interesting reading.
We all agree that they have an impact. I'm just the crazy California hippy who thinks that their impact is a problem.
But if nobody is visiting Idaho to hunt elk because of wolves, who am I to disagree? Maybe it's time for this crazy Californian to head up to see them before they're gone again.
there is a reason that there are always left over out of state elk tags available. I used to buy two tags every year if they weren't sold out now you can get one any time, they even discount them for us, I have not done it in about 7 years, it was worth it to shoot the first bull I called in and then hunt for a trophy. anymore it would be crazy to do your lucky enough to get the first one let alone a trophy. not that there aren't a few just not many. I actually saw 2 of the largest bulls ive ever seen last season but that was about the only elk I saw hunting everyday the whole season.
Elk will be where hunting pressures are light - whether the hunters be man or wolf.
Posting on the internet and drawing attention to areas that might have lighter hunting pressures than other areas is counter productive to hunting.
I understand the desire for information and help from others, but in all honesty, the best hunting will be where other hunters aren't. So why post it on the internet?
FYI - for all non-residents, we've had a record breaking winter in Idaho and the toll it has taken on big game is going to felt by all.
I love all the Idaho guys are like "don't come to Idaho it's terrible" ...sounds like a lot Colorado natives I've met lol
The traditional community is small and respectable, it's not the main stream
I have to agree with ProAlpine on this. I am old enough to have seen hunting/fishing pressure rise, resources become scarce and experiences degraded because of internet forums. In particular I have watched small stream fly fishing experiences become highly degraded because of internet conversations... I get the OPs original intentions are good and I mean no disrespect, but these conversations about geography make me nervous. I never talk about hunting or fishing locations and I very much respect others when they keep it close to the chest... its and old school ethic. Just food for thought. Thanks!
JW
A biologist once sent me the spot kill data for an area I was looking to hunt. If you're not familiar with this, it is the information reported on all tags sent back to them that even includes the direction & distance to nearest landmark of where every deer was killed in that tag area. While he was a family friend, I received it completely unsolicited -- offered very freely. It made me question how often that sort of information sharing happens nation-wide. I definitely plan to be a little more vague on my next tag report.
Idaho tag reports don't go into such detail... just the unit, date, antlered or antlerless from what I remember. Our units are pretty big areas... lots of terrain!
glad to see others idahoans step up here...i was starting to think i was the only one that cared weather the truth was told or not.
u 2 jwhitetail !
I am just planning my first hunt out west and yes to CO. I would like to hunt in an area that has wolves but CO is closer. I just want to hear one in the wild is all or hunt the same land I knwo the are roaming. Not getting into politics too much but my thought is they have their place like all things but on the flip side they have to be properly managed not just let run wild.
Good note on the Canadians who thought the US biologists had lost their crackers wanting to reintroducing the wolves! they tried to talk the US out of it.
QuoteOriginally posted by jwhitetail:
[QB] I have to agree with ProAlpine on this. I am old enough to have seen hunting/fishing pressure rise, resources become scarce and experiences degraded because of internet forums. In particular I have watched small stream fly fishing experiences become highly degraded because of internet conversations... I get the OPs original intentions are good and I mean no disrespect, but these conversations about geography make me nervous. I never talk about hunting or fishing locations and I very much respect others when they keep it close to the chest... its and old school ethic. Just food for thought. Thanks!
Exactly!!! Well said guys :thumbsup:
Tracy
There are a couple fishing spots I have no problem telling people about (though I haven't yet online). Because the odds of anybody else being crazy enough to go that deep off-trail into a steep-sided, poison-oak & rattler-infested canyon just to chase an endless amount of average-sized rainbows are pretty darned slim. Gettin' in is tough enough. Gettin' out is where you'll really find out what's what. It's like a giant stair-master inside a sauna... Anybody game? *crickets*
Heck, I haven't even been back for 15 years...
Each week I hear about another herd that didn't make it...
http://www.mtexpress.com/news/blaine_county/almost-elk-died-in-elkhorn-in-recent-weeks/article_7f058a1e-1007-11e7-9f72-3358480543b8.html