Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: two4hooking on March 16, 2017, 09:39:00 AM
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A vintage head that is often overlooked, quite reasonably priced, and very effective.
(http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr180/two4hooking/Trad%20Know%20How/2014-07-22164205_zps046ad741.jpg) (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/two4hooking/media/Trad%20Know%20How/2014-07-22164205_zps046ad741.jpg.html)
So we are lucky that 3R's brought back this classic head and I thought I would share some thoughts on it.
Currently it is a web only deal and as of right now is only available in 145 grain and no factory grind. Which suits me fine as I like to put a bit of a single bevel on them.
They are the most reasonably priced 3:1 head and I have found it to be very durable and as you would expect penetration is excellent.
The ferrule allows them to be sharpened much more easily then the original Hill head. The steel thickness on the 145 grain is excellent though I did find the 125 grain ones fold / bend easier. They come with a bit of a tanto tip though a little more rounded which helps avoid any folding also.
This head / spine shot killed a buck my brother shot this past year.
(http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr180/two4hooking/HH_penetration_zpsd0cb8hnd.jpg) (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/two4hooking/media/HH_penetration_zpsd0cb8hnd.jpg.html)
This spine was a buffalo shot by Bill Negley
(http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr180/two4hooking/Trad%20Know%20How/00small65077117_zpslq8iemu6.jpg) (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/two4hooking/media/Trad%20Know%20How/00small65077117_zpslq8iemu6.jpg.html)
And of course this picture was from the John Schulz Catalog when he distributed the head:
(http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr180/two4hooking/Trad%20Know%20How/Schulz4_zps2fa0d4e7.jpg) (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/two4hooking/media/Trad%20Know%20How/Schulz4_zps2fa0d4e7.jpg.html)
Anyway, if you are looking for a reasonably priced 3:1 head that will do the job check them out. Hopefully there is enough interest to keep them in production. If they go away again, I have a good stash that should last me, but it would be a shame to see them go... again.
I plan to use them for elk this year and I would think they would be an awesome hog head.
Anyone else have any recent harvests since the head came back out? please share some pics and stories. :campfire:
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Here is the Grizzly, Hunter's head, and Hill for comparison.
(http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr180/two4hooking/20130819_214741_zpsf95cf4d5.jpg) (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/two4hooking/media/20130819_214741_zpsf95cf4d5.jpg.html)
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Two4hooking, How does this head compare to the Hill head?
What are the advantages and Disadvantages of the two?....I had thought about this head but leaning toward the hill head.
I would like to see this in a 160 gr. head.
What was the Grain of the head that Negley used?
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The Hill head's ferrule makes sharpening difficult. With a file I need to knock off a bit of the ferrule to get the angle lower and use the serrated method to really get them where I like them
The Hunter is only offered in 125 and 145 (only 145s now on the web). You can get them shaving sharp or serrated with just a file.
My torture tests show the hunter head a little tougher than the Hill, as the Hill always seems to break at the pin for me on hard rock hits. The hunter will bend on some hard rock hits but the 145 is really tough. I aint hunting rocks anyway.
Some folks don't like the edge of the weld where the hunter is connected to the ferrule because it is a little raised, but I've never had a problem with penetration.
In short I think they are pretty comparable except in price with a nod to the hunter being easier to sharpen.
I'm not sure what version Negley used there but my guess is it would have been between 138-145 grains.
I would stay clear of the 125's as the blade metal is thinner.
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I have 6 original Hunter's Heads left and a bunch of the Three Rivers. They can be sharpened to shaving sharp with basic tools, file and jewel stick plus leather belt, I have always added the serration. I wish that was a 160 grain version, most of my arrows need a 160 head to match my bows. The deer that I shot a Hunter's Head through this year went down in sight and the 460 grain cedar arrow got ate by the snow and the switch grass. They have a sneaky way of disappearing, something that I need to not think about when shooting a deer.
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I believe Monty Browning used these on the front of his fish arrows down in Australia and put 2 consecutive shots into and coming out the other side of a water buffalo.
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A quote, "How does a broadhead that is only an inch wide make a two inch sideways hole going in and a two inch hole going out?" , my wife after shooting a 120 grain Hunter's Edge through a deer with a 38@26 bow.
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IMHO, I think it would be hard to beat the three broadheads in Two4hooking's picture.
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Thanks for the Reply Two4hooking.
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Was just checking them out and was wondering what the difference is between factory grind and no factory grind?
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Just a few less file strokes. I rework all the angles anyway.
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Got to get some! Thanks for posting, Greg!
Bought my first longbow from East Side, too!
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Do the unground have rough bevels or flat edge or??
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They are partially beveled with a round edge. They cannot be ground to be a pure single bevel, but you can lean the edge a bit to favor your fletch rotation.
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Paven: You can get them up to 160 with a bit of solder. That's what I used to do when I used them.
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Well of course, didn't think of solder. I was considering a lead split shot in the bottom of the ferrule and then cutting the point tapers shorter. I pack shot into 357 casings all the time, weight adjusting broadheads seems more extreme, I don't know why it would be, when you think about it.
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Ive been thinking about this head vs. the Hill head and was wondering which head would be better suited for anti wind plane?
Or would they be the same?
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The 140 Hill is probably the best in a cross wind, I am not sure how much it would matter. I don't think either one would take side steps like some larger wind catchers can do a a strong side wind.
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The Hunter's Head is much easier to sharpen.
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I have found that people new to Hills have a much easier time using the Nate Sheen method on the Hills. Personally, I find that I get better blood trails with either Hills or Hunter's Heads when the edge has some grab to it, whether using a serration or the 1/4" round file. Arteries are not exactly bolted down, and cutting angles matter. It seems that it is not a one method cuts all world. Perhaps different metals and different head shapes function differently on fibrous tissue.
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I picked up a dozen of the Hunters Head in the 145 gr unsharpened version. I have not weighed them but 3 Rivers was calling them 150 gr heads. I mounted one to an 11/32" cedar arrow and sharpened it up. Using a #10 mill bastard file I made fairly quick work of it. I could not seem to keep from getting into the ferrule a bit with the file but I guess I could touch that up a bit with a sharpie. The ferrule is spot welded which is fine but I was concerned when I recieved them that they all had some arc burn on the blade edges where they apparently came in contact with the spot welder during the welding process. The #10 file took that off with no problem. The tanto tip angle is not pre shaped and I had to take care in creating that. It was not hard, you just need to use caution there that you dont slip and slice your self. I shot it before and after sharpening. It was easier to remove from the target after sharpening. I thought the fit of the ferrule to the taper on my arrow was slightly lose but the pine pitch ferrule hot melt that I have filled in really well and it only required some minor reheating to get the wobble out. It flew great from my 50# Super Shrew and I shot it for awhile with the head this afternoon. I'm thinking these will be my turkey arrows for this year. I have considered using a string tracker and the cut outs on the blade might work for a place to tie the string to. Would like to hear anyones comments on using the head for turkeys or using a string tracker with it.
Thanks,
Duncan
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Here is a little bit of Dremel work to the hunter. Barbed heads are legal in MD so I may have to try them out on deer this year. "Hill Hunters" LOL
With a half round file I can even get a bit of concave on them like the Hill's.
(http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr180/two4hooking/HIll%20Hunter_zpse8vn0xqm.jpg) (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/two4hooking/media/HIll%20Hunter_zpse8vn0xqm.jpg.html)
(http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr180/two4hooking/HH2_zpsnls7fipr.jpg) (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/two4hooking/media/HH2_zpsnls7fipr.jpg.html)
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That's a great looking modification. Wonder how much the strength of the head is affected.
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I am guessing a lot. For soft tissue, likely no issue. Hit a bone or a stone at anything other than 90 degrees and the chances for bending are probably increased exponentially.
Sure looks pretty neat though. Dang it.... do I need to buy even more broadheads ?
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I don't think it really loses that much. That main weld is pretty solid and I've only managed to destroy one on a frontal hit.
Sideways...I'm hoping I don't have many sideways impacts.
Those little welds at the base would come loose pretty easily anyway for me on some hits and bend the blade.
I think for deer I'll have no issue.
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You like grinding on metal so much, I got some 190 Ribtecs that need to get Hillized.
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I just invented a new word, Greg will invent a couple new words when he reads that.
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I'd like to get my hands on some of those 190 ribteks... I only have a bunch of the 145s.
I was "Hillized" way back! :biglaugh:
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Interesting facts! I will look into these as an alternative to the Zwickeys I'm using now.