Hey all I'm diving into the wood arrow world and have some questions. I ordered a spine test kit from surewood with the heaviest spine being 65-70lb. I'm shooting a 50# toelke chinook and I draw around 28.5. With the arrow cut to 30" and 125 grain tip it's kicking tail left fairly hard still, which would mean weak spine correct? Which spine range should I go when ordering my new dozen shafts? And also will staining and sealing shafts increase spine? Thanks for any help I can get
How is your form and release?
Arrow nock fit?
Type of string, high performance string or dacron?
That spine weight should be good.
Something doesn't make sense. That arrow should be way too stiff.
It's a fast flite string of some sort and nick fit is really good. I had someone else shoot it to make sure it wasn't just me and he had the same results
Not to stiff for a fast flight!
I'm sure of top quality from Surewood, only thing
else is spine weight of shafts 65 70?
And what or how did you build arrows?
Edge grain to bow shelf?
Are you shooting bare shafts or fletched arrows? How is your brace height? Need more info
Yes I was shooting bareshafts, edge grain towards shelf. Brace height right at 7.5
When you buy wood shafts that are spined at 65-70# they are for a 28" arrow with a 125gr point at 65# to 70#. For a 30" arrow you reduce the effective spine by 5# per inch over 28" so their effective spine would be 55# to 60#.
Edge grain goes towards shelf? Ive been doing it wrong all these years with face grain on shelf? (Face grain at 12 and 6 oclock, edge grain at 9 and 3 oclock?) I thought the edge grain is where the spine is for the left/right bending of paradox.
Edge grain is the stiffest.
(Face grain at 12 and 6 oclock, edge grain at 9 and 3 oclock?)
You have it right.
I don't bareshaft woods. I think if you fletch one up you'll be fine. Fletching will stiffen spine a touch.
I am shooting 55/60 out of a JD Berry Morning Star 52@28 and probably would do better with 50/55. 70/75 out of a 55# Tall Tines recurve. The TT is pretty quick.
Something Paven mentioned has been true for me. Wood arrows work best for me when the length is as close to the bow as you can get it.
If that arrow truly is too weak you could cut an inch off your arrow.
By the way, edge grain is not always the stiffest, we've just been told that for so many years we tend to believe it. I've tested many wood arrows and often they are stiffer cross grain.
Correct BAK!
Especially on hardwoods.
But I would assume they were measured on the edge.
My Adams spine tester measures on a 26" supports.
I just went out and did some more shooting and cut the 65-70 arrow down to 29" and it bareshafted good and flew great after I fletched it. Now I'm wondering if I should order a 70-75 to get a 30" arrow?
Had similiar results (posted about it a week or so ago). I shoot 49# @28". Surewood shaft 70-75#. 29" OAL w/ 125 up front has me shooting bullet holes on paper. Tune what works best for you and run with it!
You want the grain "flames" at 12 o'clock and at 6 o'clock pointing forward for safety reasons. Of the two edge grain sides put the stiffer side against the bow.
The AMO standard for a spine tester has uprights placed 26" apart with a 2# weight hung in the middle. The spine measurement is for a 28" arrow with a 125 gr point. This is the true AMO spine standard. Any differences have to be calculated into the formula.
QuoteOriginally posted by flyflinger:
Had similiar results (posted about it a week or so ago). I shoot 49# @28". Surewood shaft 70-75#. 29" OAL w/ 125 up front has me shooting bullet holes on paper. Tune what works best for you and run with it!
Yeah I thought I was crazy but I'm gonna get the 70-75 spine and point tune if I need to. Thanks for the help I've gotten from everyone!
For each 25gr of point weight over 125gr you subtract 5# of spine weight.
Cool! Glad ya got figured out.
Shooting wood is gooood! :thumbsup:
The fletching straightened out your arrows. That's what fletching is supposed to do. I think you were over spined from the beginning and the arrow was bouncing off the side plate. Maybe something in your form also contributing to the initial result. Regardless, if they work for you , go with it.
QuoteOriginally posted by flyflinger:
Had similiar results (posted about it a week or so ago). I shoot 49# @28". Surewood shaft 70-75#. 29" OAL w/ 125 up front has me shooting bullet holes on paper. Tune what works best for you and run with it!
Yeah I thought I was crazy but I'm gonna get the 70-75 spine and point tune if I need to. Thanks for the help I've gotten from everyone!
QuoteOriginally posted by Orion:
The fletching straightened out your arrows. That's what fletching is supposed to do. I think you were over spined from the beginning and the arrow was bouncing off the side plate. Maybe something in your form also contributing to the initial result. Regardless, if they work for you , go with it.
Maybe that is the case but I had some 55-60 spine that I shot also and they showed weak all the way through also
I'd go with at least 70-75.
I had a issue several weeks ago when I went with 5" feathers instead of 4 inch. I backed off two twist from my brace height, problem solved. I also had my arrows whip tail left when shooting with my quiver on. A twist out of my string brought it right back.
I dont know; the longer arrow in heavier spine was inconsistent in flight for me.
Why do you want a 30" arrow? Is there not enough room left?
I prefer a longer arrow(30" for my 26" draw). I use mostly hill cane and sourwood shoots for arrows and both are naturally weight forward and fly very well for me. I also like the extra physical weight I get with a longer arrow.
QuoteOriginally posted by MnFn:
I dont know; the longer arrow in heavier spine was inconsistent in flight for me.
Why do you want a 30" arrow? Is there not enough room left?
With a 29 inch arrow I only have about a quarter inch between broadhead and my finger and I don't care too much for that. I've always preferred a bit longer arrow
I'm shooting Surewoods from my Chinook, but with different bow and arrow specs from you. I shoot 43 lb at 26" and 200 gr point on a 28" BOP arrow. I paper tune rather than bareshaft and a 62 lb static spine shoots bullet holes thru paper for me. Adjusting for your point weight and shaft length, I get 69 lb. Without knowing the actual spines for your shafts (65-70 doesn't tell you much, they could all be 65-66), you may well be underspined. Shooting better at 29" kinda confirms this. You could also build the side plate out just a bit and see if that helps.
QuoteOriginally posted by Fletcher:
I'm shooting Surewoods from my Chinook, but with different bow and arrow specs from you. I shoot 43 lb at 26" and 200 gr point on a 28" BOP arrow. I paper tune rather than bareshaft and a 62 lb static spine shoots bullet holes thru paper for me. Adjusting for your point weight and shaft length, I get 69 lb. Without knowing the actual spines for your shafts (65-70 doesn't tell you much, they could all be 65-66), you may well be underspined. Shooting better at 29" kinda confirms this. You could also build the side plate out just a bit and see if that helps.
Yeah I don't have a spine tester or I would test them all
So are the test shafts marked, with spine and weight? 65-70, 1-66, 1-68, 1-70, no?
I also have a 26" draw and for the last ten or so years, leave 'em long!
Over the years I have worked with a number of people that had confusing results with arrow spines. i have seen guys come up with some wild things. for myself when I am going to make arrows for someone else, it is more difficult to predict when there is a lot of extra shaft. That extra long arrow will react differently for different bows and different people, although it is possible to find a sweet spot, it is difficult to declare it without experimenting. I have also seen that often arrow flight flight confusions start with a variable release. An over spined arrow, over length and with an extra heavy point can seem like the perfect answer for someone with a feathered weak release with a high nocking point. Then down the road the release improves and everything goes wrong, the last thing they think of is that the release just got more balanced and stronger, or if it started out strong, it perhaps got weaker. While everyone always looks for the mechanical variant, the human variant is at fault more often than not. i caught myself having some arrow flight variations recently, a variety of things, one time a porpose, next time a a half arc tail whip. the problem was not a nocking point height, a brace height, or a draw length variation. It was my release fingers and some off line muscle tension. I went from wacky arrow flight to perfect arrow flight and I did not change a thing, except me.
QuoteOriginally posted by pavan:
Over the years I have worked with a number of people that had confusing results with arrow spines. i have seen guys come up with some wild things. for myself when I am going to make arrows for someone else, it is more difficult to predict when there is a lot of extra shaft. That extra long arrow will react differently for different bows and different people, although it is possible to find a sweet spot, it is difficult to declare it without experimenting. I have also seen that often arrow flight flight confusions start with a variable release. An over spined arrow, over length and with an extra heavy point can seem like the perfect answer for someone with a feathered weak release with a high nocking point. Then down the road the release improves and everything goes wrong, the last thing they think of is that the release just got more balanced and stronger, or if it started out strong, it perhaps got weaker. While everyone always looks for the mechanical variant, the human variant is at fault more often than not. i caught myself having some arrow flight variations recently, a variety of things, one time a porpose, next time a a half arc tail whip. the problem was not a nocking point height, a brace height, or a draw length variation. It was my release fingers and some off line muscle tension. I went from wacky arrow flight to perfect arrow flight and I did not change a thing, except me.
Yeah I definitely can't rule out a bad release. I'm constantly working on my shooting and release technique