Why does it seem that wood arrows are considered such an exotic option on a traditional archery site? I don't get it. First off, wood arrows have successfully been used for more than 12,000 years, worldwide. Wood arrows and shafts are pretty inexpensive and readily available, easy to build with simple tools and supplies, can be very accurate and every animal ever killed by archery has been killed with wood arrows, probably more animals than with any other arrow shafting historically.
Just the warmth of the wood, the smell(especially POC), the feel, the pride for the beautiful arrows you built and especially the way wood arrows fits with traditional archery, modern or primitive.
Is it the extra work that goes in to building wood arrows? To me, that is a great part of the experience. I'd assume most of us mess with our gear a lot anyway. Maybe it is just the times. With our fast paced lives maybe there is no time to mess with it all.
I've been on the opposite end of the spectrum through my archery career of 30 or so years ; as primitive as I can be and still be effective. I love knowing I can make it all myself, too. None of it is difficult, even a caveman can do it. :rolleyes:
I wouldn't hunt with an arrow that didn't fly well whether it be cane, hardwood shoot, store bought or homemade dowel arrows, stone, trade or commercial point, 3 fletch, 4 fletch, Eastern Woodland 2 fletch or tangential fletching. If it doesn't go where I'm looking at 15 yards and doesn't fly like a dart it don't go hunting.
I am seriously curious why some folks consider wood arrows such an exotic choice with their traditional archery gear.
could be we have a lot of compound converts that want to stick with what they know.
been shooting wood for 54 years and thats what i know so im sticking with em
They just behave better .
I have a Bear Takedown that is louder with aluminum but is nearly silent with wood .
Yes there is some glamour with wood , I don't think people will caress aluminum or carbon arrows like you will do with wood .
I do believe that there are some people that don't " Get It " but that's OK .
Different strokes for different folks .
Wood is more personal .
Never shot anything else but wood arrows and longbows. Plenty of guys opt for more modern equipment siting durability and speed.
To each his own.
Deno
I think a lot of folks are converts from the compound era and started out shooting compounds and carbon, or for some of the older folks, compound and aluminums. I started out shooting glass recurves and woodies so it's not new to me, but for the persons raised on aluminum/carbon it seems awfully exotic to them.
I think it's great that they take an interest; they will soon discover why we love our woodies so much!
Don't get me wrong...as long as folks are participating in true archery I really don't care what they shoot. Shooting any bow is cool! I'm just so surprised how many folks think wood arrows are so foreign or difficult or not the most accurate. With a properly set up bow/arrow/archer combo it's the archer that is the inaccuracy.
I started out with an old fiberglass Indian bow and killed my first deer with it with a Game getter II arrow. But like a lot of others, I went to wheelie bows, aluminum and the carbon arrows was soon to follow. But I never seemed fully connected with archery. I felt as if something was missing.
Then I went back to traditional archery again in the mid 1990's, a Martin recurve. But like a lot of others here, I went with carbon arrows. But again I always felt as if something was missing. With that, I went with wooden arrows and never looked back.
It takes time, patience and care to make up a batch of wooden arrows. I can whip up a batch of carbons in a blink of an eye. Not so with wooden arrows. There's no instant gratification i making wooden arrows. For me, shooting and making my own wooden arrows are being truly traditional. Its a huge satisfaction taking game with a wooden arrow that I have crafted myself.
And one more thing, I see a lot of people stating that wooden arrows lack the penetration and performance of carbon arrows. Sorry but, I don't buy that. I shot a decent whitetail buck this year right through one rib and his shoulder blade with a Sitka wooden arrow tipped with a 2 blade Zwickey Delta.. A complete pass through. That's enough penetration for me. Just my opinion.
And one more thing, wooden arrows are a lot quieter!
I think it primarily about ease and speed. If you need arrows and already have aluminum or carbon tuned to your bow, it is much easier to order/build another dozen shafts to previous specs, rather than start the learning & tuning process over again with wood shafts. And that after a longer, slower build process.
Cost for pre-finished shafts are high. The arrow builders earn every red cent of it, with the time and skill the put into the shafts. But, that cost is a big factor, especially considering the durability.
And finally, for me anyway, space is/was a big factor. You need undisturbed space - work area - to build your own. A place to leave everything laid out, or shafts drying, etc. It happened for me when my oldest son moved out, and I was able (allowed!) to convert his room to an "archery" room for housing all my gear, and working on shafts.
I'm coming over to wood. When I started shooting traditional I was drawing 31". Being a new guy I was trying to absorb all the info like FOC, UFOC SUPER DUPER FOC and inserts and broadhead design, all the minutia. I've evolved to a Hill style bow, my draw is dropped to 30" and now I feel it is possible for me to shoot wood.
Maybye, like you stated Pat, Time seems to be Exotic!
Wood is Good!
I'm with you, Pat. Making wood arrows is an enjoyable experience. It seems a lot of guys want an instant set of arrows, hence arrow wraps, fletch tape, etc. I see where guys make up a set of arrows in 20 minutes or so.
I take a week or more to make a nice set of wood arrows. I think they spend a week bareshafting, cutting , tuning carbons.
I make up a set that is cut to length I desire and go shoot. They shoot just as accurately as the carbons my friends shoot. They kill everything just as well, but look better doing it.
Most of my arrows these days are either hardwood shoots(sourwood) or hill cane. I don't make arrow sets anymore, I make them individually and can spent 2 to 3 hours on each one. Over the course of a year I can have more arrows than I could need.I don't need to make them all today.
When I started making wood arrows years ago I would call 3Rivers and order a dozen POC shafts in the spine range I needed and with a little inspection first make up the arrows. They always shot well. There was nothing difficult about it. Even with shoots and cane there is time involved but nothing difficult about it plus by doing them myself I learned all about arrows...IMO the most important part of the bow/arrow combo. It seems to me folks are more interested in how things look, whether it be the wood combo in the riser of the bow or the crown, cresting and fletching color of their arrows but not how well the bow is tillered or how the arrows fly.
Also, if you learn the trajectory of your arrow it doesn't really matter if it is flying at 160fps or 200fps the arrow will still go where you are looking, will still kill that whitetail, elk or pig. All of this gives me a closer attachment to the archery I love so much.
Pat, At one time I spent some time making wood arrows for myself as well as to sell. Id buy several dozen shafts of a certain spine and then weigh and recheck the spine. After dipping them several times, crown dipping,cresting,installing points and nocks, fletching,and then weighing again, I could get a really nice set of arrows that were within plus or minus 5 grain. The problem was that I don't believe that I could sell them for what they cost to make.
Convenience is why I believe that most people use carbon or wood. I have seen wood arrows that flew as good as aluminum or carbon, but it takes more time to sort and match them. As for me, I have Japanese Arrow Bamboo, and Tonkin Cane growing within 30 yards of where I'm sitting in the shop, but the Gold Tip shafts are only about 20 feet away, and they are ready to fletch.
Those who make most of their own equipment have my respect. I personally like all aspects of traditional and primitive archery.
:clapper: :archer2:
Ok I'm going to drop a new level for you...
...FEAR... FEAR roots itself in the un knowing.
Do I need a taper tool?
I don't know which spine to get..
I don't know which weight to get...
When I get them.... I don't know how to straighten them....
Are they straight?
How Do I stain and seal them????
Once I stain and seal them which glue is compatible??
Now that they're made I might break them...
I say this as a recent wood convert and the questions I had...
Carbon is quick convenient and modular. Sold everywhere...
Marty I agree with your statement straightening is my biggest apprehension
It is nice you can get pre tapered to length arrows st least.
QuoteOriginally posted by Pat B:
....I'm just so surprised how many folks think wood arrows are so foreign or difficult or not the most accurate. With a properly set up bow/arrow/archer combo it's the archer that is the inaccuracy.
I have thought about this same thing more then a bunch. Im not saying its completely impossible for a certain archer to tell, but any little "defects" wood might present comparing to other materials, is such a small difference I doubt one in a thousand archers are actually good enough to rightfully be able to complain about the woods "inconsistencies". We are shooting weapons that are either primitive or direct dirividents of primitive, and at that, it doesn't even consider the human error factor as if it doesnt even exist in the shot or shot placement. I dont know about anyone else, but I can count on 1 hand how many archers I know of period, that are/were good enough to make that kind of differential call, and do it with any kind of validity. So what if a wood arrow is not perfectly straight? I have shot thousand upon thousands of shots with wood arrows that I know for a fact that were not perfectly straight. Ive always cleanly taken my game animals, and torn the center out of my targets even so. Sure, straight is great, but not to the point of making you worry or fear about it. I hand straighten only, as I have always done, and I know they arent perfect, but they still hit where im aiming, fly perfectly, and kill when I ask them to....and it never has been any different.
LOL...we are discussing the intricacies of "straightness", while the indigenous peoples of our (and other) culture used whatever looked the straightest to them right off the tree or growing in the swamp (in the case of cane arrows), rather than a machine-milled shaft with no defects, matched spine and .002 runout! And they killed far more game than we ever will in a lifetime, or starved trying! Sometimes I thing we overly obsess and get too involved in the details.
Either I am just lucky or my shaft providers are very good, I do not have a bent wood arrow problem.
QuoteOriginally posted by Captain*Kirk:
Sometimes I thing we overly obsess and get too involved in the details.
This is why my compound is hanging on my basement wall and hasn't been shot since labor day weekend of last year. And yes, I shoot carbon and aluminum. I just got a dozen pre-finished POC shafts from 3R and will tune them to my new bow next week. As an engineer, I get hung up on details and it's stressful. That is why my hobby is traditional archery and why I am going more primitive. I enjoy simplicity. I think I'm really going to enjoy wood arrows.
I just enjoy making and shooting my own wooden arrows. They really quiet down my bow and I get great arrow flight with them. I also get a satisfaction I can't explain to you when take a deer with "my" arrows. Wood arrows, to me any way; is an integral part of tradition archery.
Even when I bought doweled shafts I rarely had to do much straightening and most of that was hand straightening.
Arrows don't have to be straight to fly well. I've made a few "crooked" arrows with "S" snakes near the point end and they would shoot very well as long as you have the nock end and point end lined up. I would never hunt with one of these crooked arrows but boy is it fun watching the others at the practice line when the crooked arrow stuck in the bulls eye. There is an old picture with Chet Stevenson with a crooked bow and arrow.
Wood is just a lot more work! Once you have carbons tuned the next dozen will be the same, and yes I bare shade to check.
Even after you finish a new dozen woods you still have maintenance on them keeping them straight etc. They maybe romantic but they take a lot to get a dozen finished.
Now excuse me I have to go finish fletching my new woodies.
Never shot anything other than wood. Enjoy making and hand straighten only if needed. Simple hand cresting (no spinner) and they're good to go.
X2 Captain Kirk
Some guys do get obsessed with small details.
Most of my hunting shots are 15-18 yards. Woodies never let me down in.
Deno
Kevin
Relax from your engineering background. This is wood we're dealing with. They are not carbon or aluminum.
Therein lies the beauty of wood arrows. I straighten mine by looking down the shaft and flexing it to get any bend out. I check them for straightness at each step of building. Before I stain and before each finish coat. I have found that I rarely have any problems after that. Truthfully once they are completely finish I never check them again unless I have one that really acts squirrelly. No maintenance just shoot them until I break or lose them
I made the switch back to woodies this week after a hiatus of Ten years. I enjoy making them,they are time consuming and a joy of a hobbie within its self. I made a few mistakes with this set of test arrows from Sure Wood shafts but will do better on the next set.Yea they shoot and fly like great.
(//%5Burl=http://imgur.com/5ncprp5%5D%20%5Bimg%5Dhttp://i.imgur.com/5ncprp5.jpg)[/url] [/IMG]
I'm only a year or so into this trad comeback but am definitely going to wood when the current set of 2016's gets depleted. Always been aluminum - never had an interest in carbon - but wood just seems right as the next step.
I appreciate threads like this and continue to enjoy researching the nuances of wood to overcome the trepidation as some have mentioned.
Flyguysc, Please tell me that is a wrap.....
Dunno if it's a wrap but dang, is it righteous!
I'm a compound convert and when I first started shooting trad I shot carbon, but it just didn't feel right. So, I read a little and asked a few questions and now shoot wood exclusively. Just seems the way to go for me. Now, if I can just get that selfbow built I'll really feel good!
I find it hard to believe that some of you stated you can't tell the inconsistencies of wood. I'm far from 1 in a 1000 but can easily see and feel it.
I shot my new cedars and my aluminums today. Cedar group 6"dia. Alum group 3"dia. It's like night and day.
I haven't make any woods for awhile I think it is time to start making some woodies. Just needed a little push again.
Thanks guys,
Tundra
I just picked up 3 dozen 11/32 cedars spined at 50-55. 32" long. Never tapered. I will remove the old feathers and do something with them.
(http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b452/staysharpguide/IMG_0645_zpsctdoi4lf.jpg)
There are certain details that need to be in place, but a good set of cedars should shoot fairly close to any arrow for consistency. This deer was dispatched with a simple cedar and a file sharpened Hill. (http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab283/pavanldb/20170305_221905.jpg) (http://s872.photobucket.com/user/pavanldb/media/20170305_221905.jpg.html)
What difference does a few inconsistencies matter if my inconsistent wood arrow goes right where I'm aiming? Like I said before generally the inaccurate part of the bow/arrow/archery combo is the archer and not the bow or arrow.
Got this question from another post. How easy is it to refletch woodies. And how many time can you refletch a woody? And won't scalping off feather ruin your nice cresting and three. Coats of clear coat?
I don't think of wood as exotic; rather, it is natural. I have shot fiberglass and aluminum, and I liked them a lot. However, I still prefer wood on aesthetic grounds. It especcially seems so when shooting my long bows.
I believe that many, not just compound converts, want the more simple "grab and go" aspect of the non-wood alternatives. Perhaps most people don't have or don't want to spend the time making good wood arrows. Good commercially produced wood arrows are costly, so why spend big money on wood, if you can get greater consistency with aluminum or carbon? Good question.
I still prefer wood, even with its idiosyncracies. It shoots more accurately than I do, and at 20 yards (my effective hunting accuracy limit), the increased performance of carbon and aluminum is a mathmatical difference much more than a practical one. In short, wood has worked very well for thousands of years.
What does all this mean? Probably not a helluva lot. Those who like wood are not going to change the minds of those who like other type arrows and vice versa. Fortunately, arrow producers will continue to make them of all these materials, so we can continue to shoot what we like, which is probably the deciding factor in most hunters' choice of arrows. Other than some of the engineers amongst us, I doubt that very many spend time poring over scientific data when choosing arrows. I like wood and don't care that there is an slightly increased potential with other types of arrows. It still comes down to shooting what one likes.
QuoteOriginally posted by Red Beastmaster:
I shot my new cedars and my aluminums today. Cedar group 6"dia. Alum group 3"dia. It's like night and day.
This is why I don't shoot wood unless it's required in a tournament class...I don't care what others say. Wood is just not as accurate.
Agree Pat B.....and why all the posts making it sound like it is so difficult to get well flying wood arrows? It isnt rocket science and do you really need/want to be able to hit the same hole every time... hahaha
Wood arrows are what it is about with my bows....they have as much input as to the experience as anything else. I believe more people coming from target, competitive and mechanical bows and used to someone saying buy this shaft and it is going to be perfect every time out of your bow once set up....and they never have to think about them again.
I look forward to a new set of arrows every year or two depending on what bow I am using that year and whether I just feel like making some new ones. :)
QuoteOriginally posted by Red Beastmaster:
I find it hard to believe that some of you stated you can't tell the inconsistencies of wood. I'm far from 1 in a 1000 but can easily see and feel it.
I shot my new cedars and my aluminums today. Cedar group 6"dia. Alum group 3"dia. It's like night and day.
If I was that concerned about tight groups I would probably not be shooting a trad bow either. Just sayin'...
I shot wood for 20 years. Aluminum for the last 10. I recently got the itch to go back to wood and made up a batch of cedars.
Just saying it doesn't take an Olympic archer to tell the difference. Read whatever else you want into it but that's what I said.
QuoteOriginally posted by Red Beastmaster:
I shot wood for 20 years. Aluminum for the last 10. I recently got the itch to go back to wood and made up a batch of cedars.
Just saying it doesn't take an Olympic archer to tell the difference. Read whatever else you want into it but that's what I said.
Just curious...have you shot carbon at all?
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa277/DUCK_TRAP/AD8B165E-75A0-44AF-AA2F-875153458397.png) (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/DUCK_TRAP/media/AD8B165E-75A0-44AF-AA2F-875153458397.png.html)
Wood is good. They can be made to look as exotic or as simple as the archer chooses. Well made wood arrows are in no way a handicap. Quiet, forgiving and pretty durable.
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa277/DUCK_TRAP/0048F918-098B-4BEA-9427-FDD30902D21C.jpg) (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/DUCK_TRAP/media/0048F918-098B-4BEA-9427-FDD30902D21C.jpg.html)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa277/DUCK_TRAP/293283BF-77B7-47F4-A116-BBF131AB6EFF.jpeg) (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/DUCK_TRAP/media/293283BF-77B7-47F4-A116-BBF131AB6EFF.jpeg.html)
QuoteOriginally posted by Michael Arnette:
QuoteOriginally posted by Red Beastmaster:
I shot my new cedars and my aluminums today. Cedar group 6"dia. Alum group 3"dia. It's like night and day.
This is why I don't shoot wood unless it's required in a tournament class...I don't care what others say. Wood is just not as accurate. [/b]
Pretty bold statement Michael. I hope you've had some experience with well matched and well constructed wood arrows before making it.
Not all wood arrows are created equal. The real work goes into spine testing and weighing shafts throughout the process of building them. You can't just grab a dozen wood shafts from an archery supplier, glue some feathers on them and expect them to be as consistent in spine and weight as a tube that gets manufactured by a machine.
For the sake of making a living, archery "raw materials" retailers do not group arrow shafts in relation to spine and weight as closely as a custom arrow maker does.
I think it comes down to simplicity and traditional values. For me at least...
I am new to archery, and like another poster, I am madly searching for as much information as I can and find I am dwelling on minutiae. I have chosen "simplicity" as my new mantra, and I need to remind myself of that. I shot wooden arrows for awhile, but as a novice archer, I broke alot because I miss alot. Because of this, I am shooting carbon for now. Now I am obsessing on FOC and GPP, and I need to stop. Simplicity. Simplicity. Simplicity.
My plan is to go back to shooting wood once I get more consistent and significantly reduce the number of times I catastrophically miss targets (It's winter in Canada, and I have missed indoor 3D targets and hit the cinder block wall behind some of them). With carbon I get lucky sometimes,and they don't break. Rarely do I have the same luck with wood. Once I start hitting the target at least half of the time indoors, I will go back to wood.
Going back to simplicity and traditional values: Clay Hayes says something really profound on this subject in his "Untamed" film. Something along the lines of technology reducing the uncertainty in hunting, bit by bit, and if we aren't careful, we might just succeed in eliminating that uncertainty, and solving the hunter's problem. In my opinion as a hunter, why would I want to do that? That is why I choose to hunt with traditional equipment. I think many of us here share that same opinion.
I have gotten wood shafts with lots of flared grain that were a little difficult to gauge, those are called shoot aways, everyone needs a few. I have also had two guys with Hill bows using heavy spined full length wood shafts that were hurling wandering air logs, that told me "wood arrows are garbage, look." I had to agree, their wood arrows were garbage. I let them try some better arrows for their bows, then they changed their minds and didn't know what to do with their arrows, they each had six out of the same dozen. I told them cut them to practical length, put the heaviest hex blunts on them they could find and shoot them at pheasants. They found that hunting Iowa pheasants with longbows and shoot away arrows is extremely addictive. Now they are going for that perfect flying shoot away arrow.
Captain Kirk,
No never shot carbon.
Red, don't get me wrong I have over 250 aluminum arrows or shafts that get regular use, 1816 (wife), 1818s and 1918s. I prefer the old sizes for longbows. In my heavier bow days it was 2018s for the light bows, 2020, 2117s and dowel stuffed Microflite 12s for the big boys.
QuoteOriginally posted by TRAP:
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa277/DUCK_TRAP/AD8B165E-75A0-44AF-AA2F-875153458397.png) (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/DUCK_TRAP/media/AD8B165E-75A0-44AF-AA2F-875153458397.png.html)
Wood is good. They can be made to look as exotic or as simple as the archer chooses. Well made wood arrows are in no way a handicap. Quiet, forgiving and pretty durable.
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa277/DUCK_TRAP/0048F918-098B-4BEA-9427-FDD30902D21C.jpg) (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/DUCK_TRAP/media/0048F918-098B-4BEA-9427-FDD30902D21C.jpg.html)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa277/DUCK_TRAP/293283BF-77B7-47F4-A116-BBF131AB6EFF.jpeg) (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/DUCK_TRAP/media/293283BF-77B7-47F4-A116-BBF131AB6EFF.jpeg.html)
oh man, I wish my walls were decorated like that first picture.
Wonderful arrows and wonderful bows! Thanks for sharing.