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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: acollins on February 21, 2017, 03:41:00 PM
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What does this mean. What changes do I need to make. I'm shooting an Omega Original [email protected]. I shoot right handed. I am drawing 27.5. The arrows are Gold Tip Traditionals 600 spine 30.5 inches long, regular insert, 125 grain point 4 fletch 5" feathers.
(http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y422/fowlff59/B7B2B443-48D5-4003-A693-627B36CF973B_zpstrryvj2m.jpg) (http://s1274.photobucket.com/user/fowlff59/media/B7B2B443-48D5-4003-A693-627B36CF973B_zpstrryvj2m.jpg.html)
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What distance did you shoot at?
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12 yards
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too weak - hack em off or reduce tip weight
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That's perfect. Don't do anything.. Adding fletching to the arrows will make them a tad stiffer.
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Originally posted by rraming:
too weak - hack em off or reduce tip weight
I would personally cut 1/4" at a time off until I got it flying a little straighter, then back up to 20 yards to fine tune even further.
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Agree with Roy. 5" 4 fletch (approx 14 grains) might even push it into the stiff side a little depending on the bow. If you want to get crazy weigh the difference with and without fletching. Then cut off some electrical tape and put it onto the back of the bareshaft to match the weight of the fletched arrow.
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I agree with getting them to hitting a little straighter, then moving back to 20 yards. (If this is indicative of how they repeatedly compare to each other)
But Roy is right - they will get a little stiffer when you fletch them. So go slowly. I almost ruined some FMJ's by tuning to far before fletching them.
I think you want the bare shafts hitting slightly low and to the right before you fletch. If you shoot that consistantly.
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They are hitting the same spot, so wouldn't they be good?
I've always heard not to worry with how the shaft tilt L,R,up or down as long as the bare shaft tunes together with your fletched shafts.
Now I like to get mine as close to straight as possible, but form could cause some of that variation.
How consistent are the bare shaft groups with tilting L or R?
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I agree with others--too weak. At 15 yds I like to have them show a little weak, then work my way out to 30 yds. 30 really shows movement to indicate stiff or weak. I believe these arrows will work well for you as you have plenty of room to shorten them-- it doesn't take much shortening to stiffen carbons a quarter inch makes a big difference-- go slow-- I enjoy tuning and tend to play with a new arrow over the course of several days, just to be sure I am getting reliable results and not having form issues on a given day. My final tune bareshaft shows fletched and bare hitting same spot with just a slight weak ( 1/2 to 1 inch) nock offset at 15 yds and arrows impacting same at 30. Wraps and fletching will stiffen, so bareshaft w wraps if using. Good luck.
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I would try out a little further before changing anything, 15, 18 then at least 20. If you're speed is slow enough you can see how the bareshaft flies. In fact I say this now that I would wait, try further, try every couple days like rifleman says but my lack of patience would get the best of me and I would end up being too stiff. I try to get my arrows a tad on the weak side. When tuning I seem to be more aware of my draw anchor. If I'm just shooting or hunting, I can get sloppy and I hope the weaker arrow compensates for the slop.
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I have found sometimes I need to step back and rest a day before tuning again. I have ruined arrows because I was to impatient and I didn't make sure they were exactly how I want them. Looks like your close though.
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To answer, we need to know how tight of groups you can shoot at 12 yards. If your arrows are normally touching at twelve yards you may be a little weak. If that is the normal size of your group it may mean you are very close to tune. I would go back to 20 yards and see which direction the bare shafts moves before deciding to cut. As Nate said, I would then give it a day and see if I get the same results. I try not to worry about how the bare shaft leans in flight and only about where it impacts relative to the fletched shaft (especially with carbon). Once they are impacting together use fletched shafts and compare a field tip to a broadhead. My goal is for field tip and broadhead to group together at all yardages.
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Your photo is showing a lot of weak shaft assuming that you are shooting those same two arrows over and over and you are getting repeatable results.
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I would also add that 2 arrows don't prove a thing. If this is representative of what ten groups look like, then maybe a change is in order. I second (or 3rd or 4th?) moving back to 20 yards. Any difference will be much more apparent. Quite honestly, if I could consistently shoot groups that tight at 12 yards, I'd call my arrows tuned
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I would also like to know if the target rotated a little after the first arrow hit. It appears that neither arrow shaft is perpendicular to the target surface (one arrow is left the other right). Were you standing in a position that the flight would be perpendicular? If so, there would seem to more going on than your photo shows (wind, form problems, etc).
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I would agree with the thought of giving it a day and stepping back further as well. The group above if consistent is in the ball park enough that fletchings should take care of the rest, especially if a FLETCHED arrow with broadhead is in that same group.
Not knowing your accuracy level in general also makes feedback harder. You could see that variance with subtle form changes, so consistency is key.
Paper tuning would be another useful tool.
A sheet of newspaper or butcher taped paper over a cardboard box with the bottom cut out works well.
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I moved back to 20 and can't really hold a tight group. I'm gonna give it some time and work on form before I do anything. Thanks for all the great info.
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That's the issue with bare shaft planing. You can bare shaft tune by adjusting based upon nock direction. As others mentioned, check it next day before hacking em off.
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Or put a paper match under the side plate and see what happens.....
This will stiffen the way the arrow flies, and you haven't cut them off.....
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I have your exact set up. Omega original 45lb @ 28" and I am pulling 27.5". I shoot 500 spine 3rivers trad onlys cut 30" with 175gr points, standard inserts and 3 5" fletching. My brace height is just a pinch over 6.5" I have shot the 600s but they were slightly too weak even with 85grain points.
Make sure you rest between grouping sessions to eliminate human error.
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You guys must shoot alot of nocks off if you feel that needs adjusting!!! Holy Hell, how close you want them to be ??? If anything having them slightly weak prior to fletching is prefered, and that looks fine. If anything, id shoot larger groups, say 3 fletched and 3 bareshaft and see if you get seperate "groups". Id say your pretty much there and wouldnt do any cutting with that repeatable result.
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I went to a Fred Asbell Clinic at Black Widow years ago and watched Ken Beck give a "schooling" on bare shaft tuning. Was the most important thing I learned at the clinic. He loved Gold Tips and I watched him take a guys bow and get the right arrow set up and shot 30 yards bare shaft like a dart. If you bare shaft correctly you don't have to worry about arrow flight when your feathers get wet either.
The purpose of bare shaft tuning is not tight groups but straight flying arrows so don't get hung up on where you are hitting as much as if your arrows are flying straight. Very few people can "look" to see if their arrow is flying straight and hold tight groups at the same time. there is a tendency to pick up your head. If you get your arrows flying right your groups will coincide to your shooting ability.
If you can get someone behind you and have them look at your arrow then you can concentrate on a spot and focus on form to make sure you are pulling back, anchoring, not picking up your head to look, etc. consistently.
Follow some of the advice given here and put in the time to get your arrows flying like darts bare shaft and you will never doubt your arrow set up. This will build confidence knowing you have a crucial part of shooting a bow locked in.
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I'll 2nd what John146 said about Black Widow. It's about how the bare shaft flys. Watch the BW video, easy to do.
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Ken Beck bare shaft tuning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSJ6-HjPMTM
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I would back it up to 20 or even a little futrther and shoot about 30 arrows (15 bare 15 fletched) and take that average before I made any changes....... one things with those layered targets is when they get beat up as the arrow entered it'll take the path of least resistance, so if a broad head Chanel close it may slip into that and give you a false kick. It happens with my fletched to sometimes.
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Kooper1013 is right about the arrows hitting targets and tilting a little but it will give you a good gauge anyway. Arrows that are not tuned will exaggerate a bad entry into a layered target. A well tuned arrow may tilt some but you will see how much less it is.
That's why you want to watch your arrow and better yet have someone behind you to confirm flight. When it's right you will only see the nock. It's a beautiful thing!
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I dont see how a target full of holes and weak spots can be depended upon for tuning guidance. Pay more attention to what the nock is doing while in flight. If you have to, use a 2nd person to watch from under and behind. Its pretty easy that way.
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In this case you may want to paper tune the arrows using both bare and fletched shafts. If you don't have a frame you can make a cheep one with a cardboard box and newspaper.
Regards,
Grouse
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One thing I do (and advise others to do if they are going to use how the arrow looks in the target) is to shoot fletched shafts into the target from your farthest comfortable distance. Unless the tuning is really bad, the fletching will do its job and the arrows will enter the target straight. Now if these fletched shafts look straight the target might be ok to use to judge tuning. If they show nock high, nock low, nock right, or nock left entry, the target is most likely changing the arrows entry and the target should not be used to judge tuning.
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watch this https://vimeo.com/70422708