buddy and I attempted a little stump shooting this morning...broke most of my arrows on dead looking logs that were like steel. We were using "the hammer" blunts and usually they just bounced off our targets putting a ton of stress right behind the point. Judos are kind of expensive, but would they even work on real hard logs or standing trees here? Im in Nebraska and everything is frozen solid out here. Im down to pay for the judos if it will allow me to do some roving without worrying about snapping half my quiver every time I went out.
I lost four in an outing a few days ago. Lost, as in casualties/breaks. Shooting woodies. Easily replaced.
Tradbowhunter had an article a couple of years ago where the guy made stumpers out of bolts, Tnuts, stout spring and nylon bushing. Get they'd absorb some of the shock. I foot my carbons w aluminum and it makes them pretty tough.
Shoot wood arrows and go have fun. If you worry about breaking them, you'll never test their abilities. Not to mention, it gives you a reason to go make more.
Below is some I made up to do some testing. They all have performed well. Tomorrow, I'll be out abusing them more and having fun with my boys, and friends.
Yes, these are footed rabbit/stumping arrows. The left is footed with South African Pink Ivory, straight Douglas fir, the last one is footed with African Blackwood. All the shafts are Douglas fir.
(http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab28/miklvines/70A6617E-222F-4D4A-97B3-0CE05A4C0EFF.jpg) (http://s846.photobucket.com/user/miklvines/media/70A6617E-222F-4D4A-97B3-0CE05A4C0EFF.jpg.html)
I've done that before , see a nice stump with moss and when you shoot it , you find out it's harder than woodpeckers lips .
I don't shoot "stumps". I shoot leaves, flowers, etc-things I know aren't "arrow killers".
Busted one last week shooting a "clod" of dirt, ended up being a rock. Who knew?
To answer your question the frozen season is tough on arrows. The judo's can bend by the spring, the hex is my go to stumping blunt in warm weather, but not good on frozen stumps either. The hard rubber blunts will crack.
I've been known to inspect my stump in the dead of winter with a old fixed blade knife and then walk away and shoot. If its your land tie out some empty plastic laundry detergent jugs. Best of luck!
If your not breaking arrows or looking for them your not shooting enough. I have broke more footed carbons than a good old cedar arrow. Yea I break one now and then......just part of the game. Plus they smell good when the break.....lol
That's why I shoot at weeds, clumps of grass, mole/pocket gopher hills, cow pies etc.. Rare occasion here in Colorado to find a properly rotten stump to shoot at! We even go so far as to GPS a spot if we find one elk hunting and navigate through it while hunting_
Friends and myself try to stump shoot weekly here in NE Pennsylvania during the winter months. Most of us use aluminum arrows with screw-in Judo points. We all shoot 45-50 lb. bows. Rarely due we destroy an arrow, might bend one, but can straighten it for the next shoot. Yep, we loose one sometimes, due to a glance-off. I have to say, if we were shooting wood shafts, we would be leaving the woods with fewer arrows in our quiver
Mike, out of curiosity, how much do wingnuts weigh?
QuoteOriginally posted by Hermon:
Mike, out of curiosity, how much do wingnuts weigh?
Just took it off and put on my scale. The wing nut in the picture above weighs 117 grains.
so no one sees a markedly better arrow survival rate from one blunt to the next? is that the consensus? Just have to be careful to choose soft targets?
Thanks
I agree with what you said.. Wide heads like hammer heads and even hex heads hitting something hard obliquely tend to torque the shaft and break it right behind the head. Happens to me all the time. Judos don't do that as much, but themselves bend.
Standard blunts seem to work fine for me in cold weather, in terms of not breaking, but they tend to snake more under stuff.
Frozen trees are tough, just the way it is...
Ash arrows with hex heads have held up about the best for me. Stump shooting is what I like to do best of all things arrow...
ChuckC
thank you Chuck! Just ordered some and Ill try to be more careful.
I shoot XX75 - 2016 aluminum. I foot my stumping arrows with 2" piece of a 2215 aluminum shaft I think it is. To bullet proof but dang close too it.
Combine these arrows with judos and you should be GTG!
I find standard steel blunts the best compromise for cost and effectiveness in slaying frozen stumps and root balls, as well as the occasional dead pine that registers 50+ on Rockwell scale.
Aluminum shafts, footed both internally with carbon and externally with aluminum still ended up bending on me so I switched to cheap carbons footed with 1" 2117's. Breakage is nearly nil with bows up to 55# and 600+ grain arrows. Not a ton of rocks in this part of MN.
Always nice when a rotten lookin stump is actually that, a rotten stump. Hit rock once in a while, but my footed Gold Tip Trads holds up real good. Been tipping them with Judo's, hex blunts and rubber blunts. Doesn't really matter what I shoot my arrows at. They either stick, or they bounce back. Worst ever happened is a lost nock or two. Of course shooting a #35 bow probably helps a bit...
QuoteOriginally posted by Recurve Addict:
so no one sees a markedly better arrow survival rate from one blunt to the next? is that the consensus? Just have to be careful to choose soft targets?
If you shoot wood arrows, try a set of Douglas fir shafts from Surewood. They have been the best for me. I usually end up losing them long before they break, and I typically put mine thru the destruction test as often as possible.
The picture I posted on the first page, shows douglas fir that has been footed. It's only my opinion, but I do not believe Fir needs to be footed. I do it to gain FOC, and well, it looks cool.
As for durability, I've busted (tore actually) a FMJ shaft with a 300 grain small game blunt on the front. That was a wrist sized piece of Ironwood that cased that when the head hit the side of it and held on while the 685 grain shaft's momentum continued to follow thru. In contrast, I've taken a full length Surewood Douglas fir shaft (630 grain total weight) and shot it from 20 feet into a live oak tree, recovered my arrow, and continued on the stumping session with the same arrow. Both shafts were shot from the same 55# longbow, just a year apart.
Nothing is immune to failure, if you are willing to push the limits to find out what those limits are.
Double post
Mike I am using surewood shafts. Not footed though...perhaps Ill google that later because I do not know how to do it. Is it difficult?
Have stumped with all kinds of shaft materials over the past 30 plus years. Nothing compares with river cane or bamboo!
Love em!
Good old regular steel blunts are best for shooting actual stumps. A .38 casing on wood is a close second.
Foot your arrows, that has saved many of my arrows I believe but the wrong target will destroy them no matter what sometimes. I've mistaken rocks for stumps a couple times and there's no saving those also have picked some stumps that might has well of been rocks they were so hard, it's a guessing game unless you check your target first and there will be casualties just part of the game.
Oh and I like the rubber bunny busters also they absorbe some of the shock. I shoot 200grns points bunny busters only come in 120grns so I take 100grn field points and grind them down to 80grns and stuff the bunny Busters over the top of everything.
QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Vines:
QuoteOriginally posted by Recurve Addict:
so no one sees a markedly better arrow survival rate from one blunt to the next? is that the consensus? Just have to be careful to choose soft targets?
If you shoot wood arrows, try a set of Douglas fir shafts from Surewood. They have been the best for me. I usually end up losing them long before they break, and I typically put mine thru the destruction test as often as possible.
The picture I posted on the first page, shows douglas fir that has been footed. It's only my opinion, but I do not believe Fir needs to be footed. I do it to gain FOC, and well, it looks cool.
As for durability, I've busted (tore actually) a FMJ shaft with a 300 grain small game blunt on the front. That was a wrist sized piece of Ironwood that cased that when the head hit the side of it and held on while the 685 grain shaft's momentum continued to follow thru. In contrast, I've taken a full length Surewood Douglas fir shaft (630 grain total weight) and shot it from 20 feet into a live oak tree, recovered my arrow, and continued on the stumping session with the same arrow. Both shafts were shot from the same 55# longbow, just a year apart.
Nothing is immune to failure, if you are willing to push the limits to find out what those limits are. [/b]
I've had that same thing happen before with a footed carbon arrow. On the other hand when I have had a similar shot like that with a POC woodie the arrow split in two up by the fletching. Has anyone else experienced that?
Never tried doug fir, I hope to soon.
You guys with all of those stumps are lucky. Yes, we got no stumps. If we do have a stump, it is a bur oak stump. Ya dosnt has to shoot da stumps when ya go stumping, does ya? I shot a basswood stump once about 10 years ago. A couple of years ago, i could still see my broken aluminum arrow in it and I still couldn't pull it out. I was not shooting at it, I shot over a deer. It has a Hunter's Head on it that I want back, it is in pretty deep.
Good old steel blunts or judos is all I use and I break very few. I just splice the ones I do break and take them out again the next time.
I carry two arrows for stumping: a judo for shots where the arrow might get lost in the grass, and a plastic/rubber blunt for shots where the target might turn out to be hard on the arrow. The plastic/rubber blunts last a lot longer than judos or metal blunts when shot into a hard target.
"Don't fall in love with your arrows, because you ain't gonna have them that long." - quote from Dan Quillian to me.
Dan was right. If you shoot enough, you are going to lose and break a lot of them.
I'm like Mike above. Arrows are meant to be shot and some are lost or broken. That's the perfect reason to get to make some more. I mainly shoot cedar but do have some douglas fir and ash that I have ace hex heads on and I have to try pretty hard to break one. Cedar holds up better than most people seem to give credit for.
Agreed that Doug fir is quite tough and makes a good stumping arrow. Hardwoods like ash, hickory, maple are tougher still, but are usually a little physically heavier than I like to shoot. I don't stump with bamboo often, but can't remember ever breaking one. It just may be the toughest stumper.
In fact, I do most of my stumping with old POCs. I take DQ's advice. I don't fall in love with them because I usually don't have them that long. I do use a lot of reparrow footings to give shafts broken off behind the point new life.
I don't use carbons for stumping, even footed carbons. Footed carbons, particularly if the inserts and footings are epoxied, are real tough, but it just hurts/costs so much when I break or lose one. :bigsmyl:
im using surewood premiums and still broke 3 out of 6...2 of them on stumps that i felt really should not have been so rough on the arrow...one was a hardwood that would have broke my foot if i kicked it so that one was excusable...i really thing the heads i were using were just transferring too much energy...im gonna give the judos a try...id be very sad if I had to limit my stumping
QuoteOriginally posted by Recurve Addict:
Mike I am using surewood shafts. Not footed though...perhaps Ill google that later because I do not know how to do it. Is it difficult?
I've gone through several of Mike's tutorials on just arrow making and fetching. He makes it look so easy. I guess it's something they taught at the McClellen MP School House because they sure didn't at Leonard Wood!
I will be going back to Judos for stumping. Went to "Hammers" and love the grab they give in leaves, but they are HARD on arrows. My last solid hit split the aluminum footing and mushroomed the carbon express Heritage arrow a good two inches back. The judos would often get stuck in stumps, but were not as hard on the arrows.
I have not broken an arrow stumping since I started using FMJ's 2 years ago. I usually stump for a couple of hours any time I go to my camp in northern Michigan - couple times a month in the off season and nearly weekly during season. Of coarse, I avoid shooting known hard targets but regularly shoot oak logs and stumps with no problem, mostly with Judos.
I think a hidden cause of of broken arrows is poor arrow flight as I believe it puts more stress on the arrow if the target is not hit squarely.
update: went to the same area and shot the same stumps but with judos...didnt break a single shaft. Huge difference!Just ordered more lol
I hate paying for Judos and hex heads so... When I glue on a point I put a 12 inch piece of dental floss in with the glue. The I twist it up the shaft towards the fletching, tie it off with a dab of glue. Affects not the flight, but saves$. By the way, I live in Nevada and we have rocks- they hide under every everything you might mistake as a legit stumping target. It feels good to pick up the broken shaft and dangling at the end of that floss- that expensive stumper.
QuoteOriginally posted by Recurve Addict:
so no one sees a markedly better arrow survival rate from one blunt to the next? is that the consensus? Just have to be careful to choose soft targets?
If I have doubts, I pull out my HTM rubber blunt tipped arrows (the Bunny Busters from 3R are the same thing.) I slip them right over a wood shaft, or if I want more weight, over a steel blunt. You can still destruct an arrow, but these help as much as I have found in any field-shooting tip. I carry hex-type blunts and judos as well and use whichever seems appropriate for the shot at hand.
I live in Edmonton, Alberta. The woods I roam are full of birch and poplar, so there is no shortage of rotten stumps. I prefer judo points for any shot where I could lose an arrow in the grass/leaves, and the rotten stumps aren't too hard on them. My other favorite stumping head is a .38 shell casing on a standard 125g field point. Makes a heavy (200g) blunt that is also good for grouse.
Jason