i keep hitting about 6 inches higher then where im looking, what can i do to correct this?
Aim 6" lower.
i dont aim
All kidding aside, get closer to the target, build memory while shooting, and only then step back to develops more memory. Once you find your arrow NOT hitting where you want, move closer and repeat.
use a heavier arrow
QuoteOriginally posted by nhbuck1:
i dont aim
You do, you just don't know it. If not done conciously, your subconscious takes over, and what seems to come natural is actually the built up memory from lots of practice taking over.
using 30 inch 340 spine with a 250 grain head arrow is heavy
If your hitting there your aiming there. You may not know it but you are. I have had arrows fly off course before but if I am consistently hitting one spot I make adjustments. I also shoot strictly instinctive. I use nothing to aim. But if you change your anchor or your getting fletching Contact it could kick it up. Or it could be a nocking point issue. Sounds funny but make sure your nock is super tight on the string. I have had them slide down on me without me even noticing untill I got crappy arrow flight.
If it is at all ranges maybe check your brace height or nock height. Its all muscle memory and your brain figuring out your arrows trajectory.
If you have changed something recently it could have affected it also.
If you don't aim you won't hit what you want to hit. I've been reading your posts and think you'd be well served to learn good form and a good aiming system. You are expecting results that take many of us many thousands of arrows to achieve. As others have said, start close, build your shot, and be patient-- if it was easy it wouldn't be trad.
I agree that everyone "aims" to a certain degree whether they think so or not. The bow riser, the arrow, something, is always in someone's peripheral vision, guiding the bow arm and shot to aim at the intended target.
Did you switch bows by chance?
I have one bow if have not shot it for awhile I'll be 6" high
compared to the others I have, I think my problem is in the grip. After a dozen arrows I'm right on again.
could be because i havent shot in awhile and i have shot instinctive my whole life its nothing new to me
keep on not aiming and eventually your brain will figure out where you aren't looking and you'll hit what you aren't aiming at :) .
:bigsmyl:
Focus. Blink eyes regularly and make sure you are focusing on a spot, not staring at a spot.
Also, I would advise you to NOT have your nocks "super tight" as suggested above. That can lead to a tuning nightmare. Just use two nocking points, and you will not have to worry about your arrow sliding down the string on release.
Bisch
If you're "not aiming", then you must be shooting with your eyes closed.
As many have said, you are using something to get the arrow on target, whatever that might be. You just don't recognize it as such.
you say your arrows are heavy but don't be afraid to go heavier . i was once up to 940 gr arrows out of low 50's bows now i'm settled at 750 gr arrows out of mid 50's bows . This helps put my point closer to the target at normal hunting distances which makes "instinctive" shooting easier .
QuoteOriginally posted by nhbuck1:
i dont aim
Maybe you should start aiming. Not to be smart but years ago I was having the same problem shooting 3-D. I'd skim off the backs of targets and the arrows would go into the stratosphere. I got tired of it and started gapping. No more high arrows. The gap puts me in the ball park.
If you don't want to gap do a fixed crawl.
I actually had a similar problem and raising my nocking point did not help. I shoot three under, and found that when my finger-pressure on the string wasn't evenly distributed, my arrows would hit tail low/point high.
My first thought is to check to make sure your nocking point didn't slip down.
Second is to check your draw length to make sure you're not giving it a bit more gas (more speed = larger gaps).
Try a different style. I gap because I don't trust my subconscious to work under pressure (and because I can't throw a baseball very consistently either). Gapping helps eliminate one of the many variables that goes into the shot.
Even if you shoot instinctive most of the time, a simple gapping method & shot sequence added to your training regimen shows if it's the equipment or you. Do an equipment check to verify everything is in order & go back to instinctive.
nhbucki,
I recently posted I was having an issue with a new-to-me bow that was less poundage than my other bows. I am an instinctive shooter and I have several recurves by different bowyers all about the same draw weights 47#-50#. I shoot them all basically the same without having to change my form or point method that has become second nature to me for all the years I have been shooting recurves. The new bow is my lightest poundage 47# but is the fastest bow I now own. I was consistently shooting high using the same arrows I shoot from bows 3# heavier in draw weight and I just couldn't make myself look lower and kept shooting high.
Some of the guys suggested I move the nock point on the string higher or use a thinner and/or softer material on my shelf.
I raised the nock point 3/16" and it solved my problem. The bow now points and shoots like all my other bows so my old brain doesn't have to try and change what has been indelibly fixed there for years.
Give it a try. Might solve your problem too.
I get results like that when I'm pressuring the top finger too much.
I raise my brace height a hair if I'm hitting high..it doesn't take much.
now if you move the nock point up wont this be out of tune by doing this?
If you go too high yes it will begin to adversely affect your arrow flight. When my bow was shooting high I was getting great arrow flight, no nock right, left, up, or down but straight into the target. When I moved the nock 3/16 higher there was absolutely no noticeable change. Arrow still sticks perfectly straight into the target.
Now understand I am shooting fletched arrows. I shoot the same arrows from seven different makes of recurves but all of them have very similar specs.
I am not a one bow guy. I like shooting different bows as long as I don't have to change my shooting style. Slight pointing or sight picture adjustments are tolerated. With the new-to-me bow shooting 8"-12" high was pushing me out of my tolerable comfort zone and messing with my old brain. I followed the guys advise and it solved the problem I was having. Now the new-to-me bow points and shoots with the same habitually ingrained picture just as all my other recurves do.
I am happy and it is a keeper.
For those who insist that you have to aim to hit your target with your bow, do you also believe that you have to aim when you throw a baseball or football? What about an atlatal, sling, bola or speer. When a quarterback thows a pass, is he aiming at an imaginary point ahead of the receiver?
QuoteOriginally posted by Jess Minish:
For those who insist that you have to aim to hit your target with your bow, do you also believe that you have to aim when you throw a baseball or football? What about an atlatal, sling, bola or speer. When a quarterback thows a pass, is he aiming at an imaginary point ahead of the receiver?
That's probably the oldest rationalization on the internet. I wasn't insisting, just suggesting something that helped me.
It was just an honest question, not a rationalization. It wasn't directed at anyone in particular. Still would like to hear peoples opinion on this.
I agree with your statement and point Jess, however it boils down to what a person defines aiming as. For me, I would describe any ball being thrown to an intended target, as "aiming". Without aim, there is no end point destination to send the ball to. However, there also comes to be a difference in individual definition, between the words "aiming", and "sighting".
To answer your question Jesse. Yes, all of those activities involve aiming, some conscious, some subconscious, but all learned through repetition.
Yes I guess it would come down to your definition of aiming. I don't have a method of aiming when I drive a nail with a hammer that I am aware of, but I guess I do. I know I can hit the nail after the first strike with my eyes closed.
I always enjoy watching these threads about aiming. It is quite interesting. I am just getting back into shooting after a few years away. I have always shot instinctively. My problem is my focus is not good. I am not a great shot. I discovered something once years ago. If I shot in complete darkness with a laser pointer putting a dot on the target, my groups were 1/3rd smaller than shooting in daylight. I always figured it helped my concentration. If you are an instinctive shooter, try it and see if you are instinctive or aiming. In complete darkness there is no references to visually cue off of. Just make sure you are shooting in a safe environment.
Oh I should say I tested this in a 12 week test. I shot the same sized target in the daylight and at night for 12 weeks. 11 of the 12 weeks showed definitely better shooting at night. The 12th was really inconclusive. The night target looked better but there was no objective data to prove it.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jess Minish:
For those who insist that you have to aim to hit your target with your bow, do you also believe that you have to aim when you throw a baseball or football? What about an atlatal, sling, bola or speer. When a quarterback thows a pass, is he aiming at an imaginary point ahead of the receiver?
To me they are fundamentally different actions. Archery is more like firearm shooting than throwing. In firearms and archery, I am using my body to operate a machine in a consistent way. If I'm shooting a handgun, I can do well enough from 0-5 yards by point shooting. Much more than that and I need to use sights to deliver any sort of precision. Same with Archery, although I'm probably better with the bow than I am with a pistol. I can shoot instinctive out to about 12 yards well enough but not nearly as good as I can while aiming. Accuracy is improved the less I interfere with the shot. Judgment is the least reliable variable and especially so when under stress. So I try to eliminate it as a variable as much as possible by gapping. Rifle hunters do the same thing by setting a maximum point blank range (MPBR) and keeping their shots within that range when hunting. Longer ranges are dealt with through ballistic tables and dope charts. Even expert marksmen will calculate their ballistics when shooting at long ranges rather than risk an errant shot at a live target. Intuition and judgment can be a liability here. I know of no firearms instructors who advocate instinctive rifle or pistol shooting for accuracy. Not even one. It's always sight picture, sight alignment, trigger control, repeat.
But when I throw, I am no longer operating a machine -- I am the machine. I'd like to be able to set the exact point of release from my hand but I can't. I also can't know exactly how much force I'm applying. So I am forced to exercise judgment. It takes tens of thousands of repetitions to master throwing and even then it has its limits and there are a lot of mistakes along the way. Some have more natural abilities while others (like me) have to work pretty hard to even get mediocre results. If I had to rely on my throwing arm to get food, I'd be a dead man.
Furthermore, most predators don't succeed with each hunt. Wolves, for example, will chase several prey animals before succeeding with a kill. Spears (by this I assume you mean javelins since spears are mostly hand-held weapons), atlatals, etc. aren't accurate long-range weapons in the hands of most people. But with enough trial and error, they can convey a survival advantage to those who keep using them -- even when most attempts fail on average. I suspect that our hunting ancestors failed on more shots than they succeeded. They also probably wounded more often than I'd be comfortable with. But there were enough opportunities to succeed often enough to keep trying at it. Hunter-gatherers also had better woodsmanship to compensate for less effective gear. Even the best hunters in this group are probably on the opposite end of the spectrum with better gear than woodsmanship.
I don't doubt some people's ability to shoot instinctively. But I also don't have much faith in my ability to shoot that way any more than I have faith that I could have been a star quarterback. And I also doubt that most people can do it as well as others. For me, gapping is the best method for most people while instinctive is the best method for those who are truly gifted at it. Even if all of the best shooters shot instinctive, it wouldn't matter since these are already exceptional archers (selection bias). I want the best method for the average joe and, for me, that's gapping.
This is a general sense of my own thought process and it is not a criticism of instinctive shooters. It is just an explanation of why I use and would generally recommend gapping over instinctive. A gapper can get proficient, have success and move on to instinctive if they have the interest and ability. But starting with instinctive is a quick way to frustration. I'd rather see folks having fun than giving up by trying to learn something that is, in my opinion, more difficult and time intensive.
Well said Yosemite! Whenever I hear someone who is struggling talk about how they've shot instinctive their whole life red flags go up because for some it means that because they've heard you're supposed to shoot instinctive they refuse to start out by aiming and make little or no progress. When I was competing in open sighted rifle competition the sights were always important, but as I improved, alignment, hold, and breaking the shot became more automatic or "instinctive".
When I started shooting longbow I believed like others that you just look at a spot and hit it---I found out later that for me this was backwards--- I put the "stink" in instinctive. I only started making progress when I developed solid form and a repeatable aiming system. After time I was able to focus less and less on consciously aiming and making shots became easier-- more automatic or instinctive.
Do I believe that some can truly pick up a bow with very little practice and hit through what we call instinctive--yes, but I believe there are many more who claim they can than actually do--- they are either aiming and don't want to admit it or are not good shots. Again, I acknowledge that there are some very gifted people out there that shoot great instinctively, but for many of us--me for sure-- you've gotta walk before you can run. I believe sadly that there are many that will continue to do the same thing with the same dismal results and will move on to another hobby out of frustration.
My goal is to hit my mark w barebow and I will take advantage of everything available to me through my form, including setting up arrows for feather to my nose/ third anchor, shooting three under, learning gaps ( which over time become second nature), setting my bow up to hit where I look, and ultra tuning my arrows. I do all of this because, for me, hitting my target every time is my end goal and what makes it all fun.
If you're not among the talented few, hard work is what it takes and doing the same thing if not getting good results may not be the best plan.
These last two posts are bang on. Sadly this is gonna turn into "one of those" discussions where folks who think they aren't aiming won't understand what's being suggested.
I shot with a guy a couple years ago at a shoot who refused to estimate distance, he said "I just shoot" and his accuracy was dismal.
I know that when I shoot with good and consistent form that my arrow hits within 10" of the centre of the target that's good enough for hunting. So within that range I just have to shoot (18-25 yards) below that I must compensate and beyond that I must compensate. Close I hold lower according to what I've learned through practice and further I hold higher....
How YOU compensate will differ in many ways to how I do. There's face walking, string walking, gapping, Texas windage (my method)
To think this is instinctive only is a misunderstanding.
Regarding throwing a ball, if it was instinctive anyone could throw a ball accurately after only doing it once or twice. Truth is it takes thousands of throws to figure it out and at that point it's an estimate not instinct.
Interesting thoughts. I agree mostly. I don't think instinctive shooting comes easily nor is it the most accurate way. I agree many people are better off learning some form of aiming. But to say people won't understand ? I understand one thing. I was a pitcher in little league. My coach used to always say, don't aim it, just watch the mitt and fire the ball in. I doubt I threw 1000s of balls before I struck my first batters out. My online dictionary defines instinctive as "relating to or prompted by instinct; apparently unconscious or automatic" and that is how I shoot. Am I the most accurate? No. But I sure have alot of fun shooting frisbees out of the air.
double post sorry
I have never heard anybody say shooting well instinctively was easy, quite the opposite. I shot for about 30 years before I even knew You had to have an aiming method to hit the target. I enjoyed shooting all that time and was even pretty good at it, pretty successful hunter too. I have always shot instinctively for enjoyment. If hitting the target every time was my only interest, I would put sights on my bow or choose a different hobby. That being said, I strive for accuracy and good form, and both can be attained while not using a specific aiming method. I believe everyone should shoot how they like and enjoy it.
QuoteOriginally posted by the rifleman:
I put the "stink" in instinctive.
That's a good one. Definitely an experience I can relate to!
...Or, having your anchor too far below the eye can cause this.
Whether it be long range rifle shooting or golf, I used to always look for answers in my equipment. I've aged and learned that most times it's me not my 9 iron. When I miss high I think that just before releasing I peek or raise my bow arm just a bit. Then I bear down and focus, rather than stare and the arrow magically goes down. I still can't figure how my shotgun barrel got bent so I'm always shooting behind grouse though.