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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Straitshot on January 30, 2017, 08:09:00 PM

Title: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: Straitshot on January 30, 2017, 08:09:00 PM
Ok, I am old and things come slower now than they use to. I am having trouble understanding a situation happening between different bows I shoot. I am an instinctive shooter and I point and shoot all my bows basically the same. They all range between 47#-50#.

I recently purchased a new-to-me one piece recurve that is 60"AMO, 47#@28" and it is the fastest bow I now own. I can visually tell it shoots harder and faster than recurves I have that are 3# heavier in draw weight.

What is happening is the very same arrows I shoot from all my recurves I am consistently shooting 8 to 12 inches higher with this 47# recurve and it is the lightest poundage recurve I own.
I use the same grip method shooting all my recurves. In fact the grip on this bow is very similar to the grips on all my other bows.

My arrows are 500's cut 29 ΒΌ" with 250 grain field points and three 5" LW helical shield cut feathers.

Anybody have any idea as to what is going on here?
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: kennym on January 30, 2017, 08:13:00 PM
Might check the tiller on it compared to the others.
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: The Whittler on January 30, 2017, 08:21:00 PM
It just happens sometimes you get a bow that just smokes an arrow. It doesn't matter if it's a production model or custom.

You got a flat shooting bow now enjoy and have fun with it.
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: Straitshot on January 30, 2017, 08:21:00 PM
I am not sure where you check the tiller on a one piece so I tried to check it at the same location on the upper and lower limbs. There seems to be about 1/8" difference in the distance to the string. The upper limb is about 8 3/4" and the lower limb appears to be 8 5/8" or 1/8" closer.
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: madmaxthc on January 30, 2017, 08:23:00 PM
You could also check the speed of the arrow, as compared to the other bows you own. It may have a better performance.
Have you tried shooting bare shafts? Is the nocking point correct?
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: Straitshot on January 30, 2017, 08:29:00 PM
Whittler, This thing does smoke an arrow. It is just really hard for me to make myself look lower. The way I point and shoot is so fixed in my mind it takes concerted effort to change. All my other bows shoot so similar it takes very little if any adjustment at all when switching from one to the other.

This one is pushing me out of my comfort zone.    :knothead:
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: Straitshot on January 30, 2017, 08:32:00 PM
No tuning issues. The arrows go to the target like a dart and stick straight as an arrow in. Pun intended. No nock left, right, up, or down.
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: mec lineman on January 30, 2017, 08:35:00 PM
Sounds like a whippenstik to me! I had a recurve that shot high for me. If u dedicate all your time to that bow your brain will make the adjustments.  Or you can add weight tubes if you're shooting carbons.
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: kennym on January 30, 2017, 08:44:00 PM
Tiller sounds right. If the grip is close to others, not sure what to tell you .

Prob should send to me for further investigation. Two to three years should be enough to find it.....  :goldtooth:
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: dnovo on January 30, 2017, 08:49:00 PM
Is the shelf cut the same distance above your hand? A small difference can make you shoot higher/lower.
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: BlacktailBowhunter on January 30, 2017, 08:57:00 PM
I lengthened my clicker 1 chain notch and I swear it's hitting 2" higher at 10 yards just from additional speed.
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: Straitshot on January 30, 2017, 09:02:00 PM
dnovo, Possibly slightly higher if at all. I shoot with a high wrest method with the throat of the grip touching only the web of my hand between my thumb and forefinger. When I draw and the bow throat is forced into the web of my hand all shoot off the shelf bows are just barely over my hand.

I suppose this could be part of the problem that I have not realized.
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: McDave on January 30, 2017, 09:15:00 PM
Just raise the nock point until it's hitting where you want.  It might make bare shafts fly nock high, but that's easily corrected by the fletches.  As other people have said, different bows shoot differently.  At our age, better to correct the bow than try to remember to do something differently.
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: durp on January 30, 2017, 09:18:00 PM
what McDave said !!!
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: Straitshot on January 30, 2017, 09:53:00 PM
mec lineman, No fair peekin'.

McDave. It is dark outside now but I will try that tomorrow and see if it won't help some. You are correct about the too old to try and remember.
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: Biathlonman on January 30, 2017, 09:59:00 PM
Get heavier arrows...
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: Orion on January 30, 2017, 10:18:00 PM
Tiller is good, as others have pointed out.  Shelf seems to be similar to your other bows so that's not the problem.  It's simply a faster bow.  Will need to learn how to compensate for it.  

I don't buy the too old to remember stuff.  I'm 70 and don't have trouble remembering I have to shoot one bow a little differently than another.  

I agree with McDave.  Raising the nock point will lower the point of impact.  However, there is a point of diminishing returns with that.  Raise it too much, and your arrow will start purposing.
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: Straitshot on January 30, 2017, 10:42:00 PM
Orion, I appreciate the information. I realize there is a point of diminishing return when raising the nock point. Though this issue has been somewhat frustrating I have been shooting for many years. It may have been an issue some time or another in the past but I just don't remember it being that big of a deal.

The issue is somewhat compounded for me because I have a very annoying equilibrium problem due to inner ear damage and it is just another thing I have to learn to deal with when trying to shoot.

I will prevail because I love the way this bow shoots and I enjoy shooting it.

Bithalonman, I think it does shoot the heavier arrows better and it brings my over shooting 2/3's down. With a little nock adjustment hopefully I will be able to get it on for my style of shooting.
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: damascusdave on January 30, 2017, 10:45:00 PM
Takes a thousand shots to get used to a major bow change. Get back to us when you have done that. Having over 40 bows like I do shortens the adapting curve a lot.

DDave
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: Holm-Made on January 30, 2017, 10:48:00 PM
it must be the nock point and or the grip.  I can't imagine the bow is that much faster that it would make 8"-10" difference in impact.
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: damascusdave on January 30, 2017, 10:51:00 PM
Have an experienced archer watch you shoot from different angles. They will find sometimes going on you cannot detect. My guess is it is in your bow arm.

DDave
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: Kevin Lawler on January 30, 2017, 10:56:00 PM
I had the same problem on a bow once. I moved the knock point until it went away but it was crazy high so I sold the bow. Couldn't get used to it that high. I often wondered if it was tiller.
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: Straitshot on January 30, 2017, 11:01:00 PM
If the nock was off I would be getting erratic arrow flight or a worn spot on the arrow rest. I am not. I have seven other different recurves ranging from 48# - 50# with different grips and I shoot them all the same with very little if any adjustments at all. I believe they are all considered medium high grips by their individual makers including the bow I am speaking about. One of them may be considered high.
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: Orion on January 30, 2017, 11:29:00 PM
Louis:  Other than the speed of the bow, the only other thing I can think of that might be causing the higher arrow impact is that the shelf itself might be higher than it is on your other bows.  I know you said this isn't the case, but it doesn't take much of a difference  to cast the arrow higher.  If you're shooting instinctively, it would just take some getting used to before you get it dialed in.

Likewise, even if you're getting good arrow flight now with the nock point where it is, you may be able to raise it a bit and still get good arrow flight while bringing the impact point down a bit. Do you currently have it set the same distance above the shelf as on your other bows?

I suppose there is another thing that could also cause it. If the limbs are out of timing, they could contribute to erratic arrow impact.

Because you said you shoot high wrist, I'm assuming you don't heel this bow or the others. Heeling it would kick the arrow up.

All in all, I think it just might be the extra speed that you'll just have to adjust to. Shouldn't take too long.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: McDave on January 31, 2017, 12:02:00 AM
Another thing you can do to bring the POI down is to soften the arrow rest, i.e. use Velcro rather than leather, or a rug rest rather than Velcro.
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: Pheonixarcher on January 31, 2017, 12:28:00 AM
If you are shooting split finger, shooting 3 under will bring that point of impact down. Lol. But I'm sure you don't want to change your style, so a few things you might try are a heavier arrow, a smaller arrow diameter, a longer arrow, a thinner rest material, and/or raising the nock point. Any one, or a combination of these suggestions should help to lower your point of impact.
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: Sam McMichael on January 31, 2017, 08:15:00 AM
If the bow is hooting well, and arrow flight is what it should be, why bother looking for things to make it shoot like the other bows? Apparently, it shoots better, at least from the standpoint of speed, grouping, etc. If you aren't able or willing to adjust, the practical thing to do is to get rid of it as opposed to downgrading it (or your shooting style)to match lesser performing bows.
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: Mint on January 31, 2017, 08:39:00 AM
With my Palmer recurve if I shot arrows that were underspined they would fly perfect but high. This happened consistently. I lowered my point weight thereby decreasing the spine and flight was perfect. My Palmer is 47# at 26" and my draw is 26" and I shoot Heritage 150's with 200gr or 90's with 160grs.
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: Straitshot on January 31, 2017, 03:43:00 PM
I would like to thank everyone for their input.

I raised the nocking point 3/16" and it pretty much solved my problem. Still slightly high but not enough that I can't adjust and get use to it pretty quickly now.

Thanks guys for showing this old codger you ain't never too old to learn something new.    :)
Title: Re: Help this old codger understand.
Post by: mwosborn on January 31, 2017, 07:52:00 PM
:thumbsup: