Hey yall! So I am in the process of tuning my Super Kodiak and have some questions. First, in regards to the loudness of the shot, I had gotten many responses that suggested that I replace the Bear factory string with a new one. Is this really necessary? And if so, what brand do y'all recommend? Also, I am a first time woodie builder getting started with Douglas Fir from Surewood. I am happy with my straightness I acheieved. I am drawing my 50# @ 28 inches SK to around 27 inches. I have a couple completed arrows that ended up between 591 grains total. I ordered 11/32 surewoods at 55/60 spine, 420-430 grains, BOP 29" cut and tapered by them. I stained and sealed them. I have 3 x 5" feathers and a 145 grain field points. They seem like they are quite underspined. Does that seem right? I have 125 grain tips I will try tomorrow, but was really hoping to shoot a nice heavy arrow with solid FOC. I am no competition shooter, but was able to hold pretty solid groups with a nicely tuned carbon arrow shooting broadheads out of my Samick. Trying to see if it is all technique or if that underspin checks out with you experts? If I do need to go doin in point weight, am I still going to be okay for penetration on say elk? Thanks everyone in advance!
Agree under spined. As a point of reference I shoot a 45# SK and have a 30 inch draw so about 50 pounds draw weight. Full length cedar arrows spined 70-75 23/64 diameter, 3 5 inch helical feathers, 145 gr points. Total arrow weight between 600-650 grain. They also shoot very well with Grizzly BH.
Guessing 145 gr point would be on the low side for Elk unless the shot was very close and well placed. Good luck.
dang..wish I did more research first...took a tech at 3Rivers advice on guessing spine...looks like it wasnt so good after all
I wouldn't give up on your 55/60's just yet.Since you're drawing 27", you could easily cut them back to 28"BOP, and I'd bet you'd be close, using the 145's. Could also build out the side plate just a touch to add some dynamic spine.
As far as strings, I haven't shot that bow myself, but with the pretty unanimous agreement about it around here, I would most definitely replace the string. And I'd buy it from one of the sponsor stringmaker's on this site (SBD, Champion Custom Bowstrings, Ten Ring Strings, to name a few). Personally, I would not likely order a string from a large supplier, I'd go to one who specializes in strings.
If the wait time is too long for you though, I'd talk to Big Jim, since he replaces the stock strings on the 59ers he sells; or, talk to Tim at Braveheart about his in stock SBD's (a great option).
Be sure to mention what nocks you use, whoever you talk to.
awesome! thank you!
SBD string
I agree with slobow re your existing spine. They should work for you. Either shortening them a tad or building out the side plate or both should do it.
Next time you order shafts, you might also consider ordering them 20-30 grains lighter. Not as much physical weight to get moving so it doesn't flex as much as a physically heavier shaft, i.e., it dynamically behaves like a heavier spine shaft. Not a big difference, but something to work into overall tuning. Would still end up with a fairly heavy arrow.
Those arrows will work fine man. Don't go out and buy a whole new set. Just tweet them a little and you'll be good. As far as the string I don't have any issues with the bear strings. I have a few bears that still have the original D97 string on them. Some guys say there is a big difference in materials but for the average guy like me I can't tell. I've done lots of testing with my chrono comparing different sting materials. Just my opinion but the difference is minimal. I shoot 55-60 spine woodsy out of a few of my 50 pound bows. You shouldn't be to far under spines. Play with you brace height and point weight and you should get them flying well.
I find the differences in string material to be drastic in some situations but speed loss or gain isn't that variable. Many materials are quieter, more stable, and more durable than others. Each of my bows seem to have their favorite material. As mentioned, you can get those arrows to fly, just keep at it.
You have a decent chance of getting them to work...though maybe not with all that heavy of point.
...I've said it before and I'll say it again...get a set of spine test arrows.
It will simplify your life in the future...and help bar against wasted time and $$$ on the wrong spined shafts.
I shoot my 45@28 SK (drawn 27 1/2) and get great flight out of 50/55 spine arrows cut to 29". I use 145 grain tips. I can't see being underspined with 55/60s. I can even go down to 45/50s with no problems. I think we tend to go overboard on spine sometimes, but whatever works. Just saying what works for me.
just my 2 cents but i shoot 55/60 surewoods cut to 293/4 bop with 125 up front out of my 50lb @ 29 deathadder...think you just need to tune a bit more as stated.
yeah guys I am still tuning...It just seemed severe for my intiial test that I was hoping they would be closer. I will cut an inch and tried increasing the brace height a hair...Ill keep yall posted. Thank you!
So have you had an experienced archer watch you shoot to confirm that you have solid and repeatable form
DDave
QuoteOriginally posted by Recurve Addict:
I will cut an inch and tried increasing the brace height a hair...Ill keep yall posted. Thank you!
May as well cut them in half.
All kidding aside, you may not want to make such a dramatic change right off the bat. With my carbons, I kept cutting 1/8" until I got them where I wanted. No reason to expect different results w/ Douglas Fir.
It's generally not hunting season so you've got time to go slow and tinker just a bit. Take your time learn a lot and by all means, have some fun!
Good luck with your tuning. Those arrows will work.
homebru
I shoot 50lbs. and 57 to 60 lb. spine with my doug firs and get perfect arrow flight shooting 125 grain heads . My arrows finish out at about 530 gr. I have never felt the need for more weight than that.
Carbon arrow material behaves very differently from wood. As does aluminum. All about recovery from paradox.
DDave
I was so knock right that a bare shaft snapped..im not claiming to be an Olympic archer but i wore through the vitals on my 3D in a month from 15-25 using BH from a sammick..i can lose 2.5 inches and still be fine for total length...is one inch teally going to effect dynamic spine that much?
QuoteOriginally posted by Recurve Addict:
I was so knock right that a bare shaft snapped..im not claiming to be an Olympic archer but i wore through the vitals on my 3D in a month from 15-25 using BH from a sammick..i can lose 2.5 inches and still be fine for total length...is one inch teally going to effect dynamic spine that much?
Try one and find out. Just don't cut them all until you have an idea where you need to be.
homebru
oh i will...all learning experiences...I already know im in love
So I ended up winging it and taking an inch off...moving from 29 BOP to 28. Also ended up nock high so I raised the string nocking point up a touch. Absolutely flawless now with 55-60 spined douglas fir with a 145 grain field tips. I am unreal excited. My excitement literally rivals the feeling I get when actually havesting an animal with my compound. Going traditional is already one of the greatest choices I have ever made. I also tried straightening some POC shafts I had and made 3 arrows out of that. Interested to see how different the total arrow weight will end up compared to the 585 grain area I am in with my completed Surewoods. Does anyone find a huge difference in shooting a variety of woods even if they are supposedly the same static spine? Thank yall for the tips, I was very ready to call Surewood and ask them give me their best guess. Seeing those bare shafts group with my fletched arrows felt like the greatest accomplishment I have ever had in archery, and I have taken many deer with a compound. Gonna do a ton of stump shooting while I am conducting a study on fox squirrels for a school project. I already cannot wait to get after spring gobblers March 25th!
Glad it worked for you.
As I noted in my earlier post, different physical weight arrows will behave a bit different dynamically even if they have the same static spine.
If you go to a considerably physically lighter cedar shaft, say 50 grains or more lighter, it will act dynamically stiffer and may impact a bit to the left vis-a-vis your heavier Doug firs.
Of course, unless you have a spine tester, you won't know for sure if your cedars and Doug firs are the same static spine, so will be difficult to pinpoint the cause of different arrow impact if you do experience it. Let us know what you find out.
spine tester will be acquired someday, but not in the cards at the moment. So my 3 doug firs tuned and my 3 POCs tuned, now I am going to do a little experiment. The 3 doug firs came in between 578-582 total weight.....3 POC came in 525-529...gonna take both sets out to do some stumping and see if I can really tell the difference...I prefer the heaviness and out of the box straightness of the surewoods so all my purchases will be them from this point. What do you expect my results will be? Will it be a dramatic change in vertical point of impact because of the 50 grain difference? The rest of my cedars are going to have 40 grain screw on adapters put in and 125 grain bullheads to get closer to my 575 target weight for all my arrows...just having a little fun experimenting
You probably won't notice much difference in drop until you shoot beyond 20 yards. Should be noticeable at 25-30 yards and beyond though.
If Bear is providing D-97 strings with their bows I would say there is no reason to change strings. Unless Black Widow has changed recently, that is the same string that you'll find on Black Widow bows when shipped. :campfire: