Hello all:
Does anyone have some photos they could post here of the "tip wedges" which supposedly come on Hill bows built by HHA?
I do not mean wood or antler/ivory tip overlays, but what I've heard referred to as "tip wedges" (which are supposed to be standard on Craig's bows).
I had asked Jason at HHA if these tip wedges were made of glass, and he said yes.
I have an order placed with HHA right now, and I believe that there is still time to add tip overlays if I want to. So seeing pictures of the standard tip wedges to aid my decision would be useful.
Thank you,
Frank
Just to clarify, I'm looking for photos of the tips of your HHA bows, if you don't have custom wood, antler, horn, or ivory overlays.
Thanks again.
Given that tip wedges are meant to enhance performance, suggest that you make the decision based on HHA recommendation rather than appearance.
Craig or Jason should be able to explain the pros and cons of wedges in the bow as you have ordered.
HHA still puts the wedges when tip overlays are used, big john
The wedges work fine. I can try to send pics to your email.
it was a bit of a load so I sent them one at a time>
As Big John notes, Craig will put overlays on the limbs even with the wedges installed. I've had him do that on several bows. The limb tips and wedges are so small in relation to the rest of the limb that they have a negligible effect on performance.
I personally like the aesthetics of limb tip overlays.
Thanks guys.
Prior to placing my order, Jason didn't think that the tip overlays were necessary. He confirmed that the tips do have wedges already.
But I'd like to see a close up of a tip on HHA bow, which has just wedges. So if you can take a good closeup to post, please post it here.
I'm mainly concerned with tip longevity, especially if I want to try a fast flight string.
I could always add overlays anyway. But for right now, I'm leaning towards the simplest look.
Thanks again, and Best Wishes,
Frank
:dunno:
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p380/gdickey_10/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-12/2017-01/35716C32-F793-4A87-A553-F01C5354A8AC_zpslz3atkxg.jpg) (http://s345.photobucket.com/user/gdickey_10/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-12/2017-01/35716C32-F793-4A87-A553-F01C5354A8AC_zpslz3atkxg.jpg.html)
Wedge in my HH Redman.
Big five
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/charlie/hilltipwedge.jpg)
When you get your bow and have the the brace set, measure the string from tip to tip, then order a padded string from either Champion Strings or another, ask for small loops for a Hill longbow. As long as they don't get dirt and grit built up it should not be a problem. Actually, even a B 50 string can get wear if there is dirt and grime building up. I am due to clean mine before I start shooting a lot again, couple times a year thing for me. It can happen right in the groove whether there is an overlay or not.
I know this isn't what you asked for, but here are a couple pics. The first from a HH Rogue with ivory tips and white glass wedge toward belly, the second a HH Half-breed with antler tips, and once again wedge toward belly.
(http://i.imgur.com/SQZMQAx.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/IAADFJB.jpg)
Thank you Yewbender, Cbarlie, Patrick, and Larry: great pbotos, and very helpful!
So if I could also ask for some advice: are antler or horn considerably harder materials than say, ebony? If I add tip overlays, I'm wondering what the better choice wohld be.
Best wishes,
Frank
Wedges for me on boo....just a little re-enforcement to help things but not a lot of extra weight like an overlay. (I do only shoot B50 too though).
I know my Schulz bows have smaller wedges then some of the more recent HHA bows I've seen. I think John went out of his way to keep the tips as light as possible to aid performance.
My opinion is why as extra weight there if you don't need it unless you REALLY like the look of overlays.
I have an early Schulz Redman (all yew) that John did not put any wedges in.
(http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr180/two4hooking/20130722_191720_zps24040798.jpg) (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/two4hooking/media/20130722_191720_zps24040798.jpg.html)
My other boo Schulz bows from HHA all had small wedges.
Here is a photo showing an Ekin above with a slightly longer wedge and a Schulz Tembo with a smaller wedge. The Tembo was later refinished and someone had the antler overlays added.
The bow still shoots very well but I would have not bothered with the overlays especially since it has the wedges also.
(http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr180/two4hooking/020_zpsf0b38ff1.jpg) (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/two4hooking/media/020_zpsf0b38ff1.jpg.html)
QuoteOriginally posted by two4hooking:
Wedges for me on boo....just a little re-enforcement to help things but not a lot of extra weight like an overlay. (I do only shoot B50 too though).
I know my Schulz bows have smaller wedges then some of the more recent HHA bows I've seen. I think John went out of his way to keep the tips as light as possible to aid performance.
My opinion is why as extra weight there if you don't need it unless you REALLY like the look of overlays.
I have an early Schulz Redman (all yew) that John did not put any wedges in.
(http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr180/two4hooking/20130722_191720_zps24040798.jpg) (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/two4hooking/media/20130722_191720_zps24040798.jpg.html)
My other boo Schulz bows from HHA all had small wedges.
Thank you, Greg.
QuoteOriginally posted by two4hooking:
Here is a photo showing an Ekin above with a slightly longer wedge and a Schulz Tembo with a smaller wedge. The Tembo was later refinished and someone had the antler overlays added.
The bow still shoots very well but I would have not bothered with the overlays especially since it has the wedges also.
(http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr180/two4hooking/020_zpsf0b38ff1.jpg) (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/two4hooking/media/020_zpsf0b38ff1.jpg.html)
Thanks for talking me down off the ledge, Greg! I'll just stay with the wedges.
It's interesting how the locations of the wedges in the lams differ, not just the length. Myself I would think it better that they always be nearer the back instead of the belly, but what do I know of such matters? Pretty much nothing! :confused:
This is just my opinion, but I don't think the wedge is meant to make the tip more durable or to provide protection as regards string choice. I think the purpose Is to stiffen the tip to make the mid limb do more work and to make the limb a little less whip tipped.
Way back the Hill bows did not have the tip wedges. It was the first thing to break if the bow hit something during the shot. i had a Jerry Hill bamboo , nice shooting bow, but I clipped a rock shooting at a deer and the tip cracked. I fell on a Schulz in eastern Iowa on a slippery boulder, the tip cracked. The longer wedge does bleed out the stress line further into the limb, but they seem to work fine. At Frank's draw, I do not think that there should be any worries with a padded BCY string.
Learner, I think you may be over-thinking this bow order. :D I have longbows with and without overlays--most have tip wedges. I like the looks of overlays and don't think they contribute any performance loss at all--at least it isn't enough that I can see it.
John Schulz told me that Howard Hill was "death" on anything that added weight to the tips of the bow. Personally I doubt that wedges add enough weight to the tips to affect performance.
Howard liked slim and fairly delicate limb tips and I've read at least a couple of accounts where he broke off a tip.
He just cut new nock grooves with his broadhead file and went about his business.
The one thing that a tip overlay can do, if it done well, would be with B50 strings, It could spread the stress on the string out around a continually curving ramp and provide a longer string life. On my own I cheat a little, I cam the string slots and slightly round the back to avoid a total flat spot. Perhaps Craig does this as well.
Here's something to think about re tip overlays, not wedges. They add a few grains to the limb tip, but also have the effect of moving the limb tip 1/8-inch or so farther forward (i.e. increase the setback), adding that much more early load to the limbs. IMO, it's a wash. I like em because they look nice.
Long story short, the limb tip wedges are sufficient to enable a Hill bow to handle a fast flite string with ease. Limb tip overlays aren't necessary, but they look nice and don't detract from the bow's performance. It's a personal preference thing. Go with what you like to look at knowing either will work just fine.
QuoteOriginally posted by David Mitchell:
Learner, I think you may be over-thinking this bow order. :D I have longbows with and without overlays--most have tip wedges. I like the looks of overlays and don't think they contribute any performance loss at all--at least it isn't enough that I can see it.
:knothead:
LOL....so true; I definitely tend to overthink things, David!
Best wishes,
Frank
So many great points raised by everyone. Many thanks for the advice and photos!
:notworthy:
So I've decided to keep my order as is, without overlays. And if, Lord willing I both learn to shoot my bow well and have the funds to get another Hill, I shall order that one with the overlays.
Learner, I had a buddy tell me one time that the best part of buying a new truck was "having the want tos". Yeah, it can be fun and confusing with so many choices. :) I can almost guarantee that tis will not be your last Hill. They are addictive.
The harsh reality is that real archery existed long before computers. At the Sioux Falls shoots years ago, one of the hardest things to find was a place to park your car and they had a large parking area.
The harsh reality is that real archery existed long before computers. At the Sioux Falls shoots years ago, one of the hardest things to find was a place to park your car and they had a large parking area.