I was shooting today when a young man bought his first bow. It was a Samick Sage. He draws 28" and the bow is 40# at 28". The archery people weren't giving much good advice to the new guy. What do you Sage owners use to shoot off the shelf? And what nock point height? Any idea on arrows? I'd like to be ready if I see the young guy again. Thanks for any info. I know it can vary widely among people but any info shared is useful.
The shelf and sideplate can be the loop half of velcro. Arrows - 600 spine at 31". Points will be about 125-145gr or maybe even 175gr. Nock point roughly 3/8" above shelf line.
That should be ballpark.
If I had that bow and were drawing 28" that is where I would start, but be ready and willing to make adjustments.
Side plate is Bear hair rest
600 spine arrows with 125-175 grain tips depending on what length feathers he wants to shoot. Axis fly really well. I'd recommend 4" shields though.
3/8 above self line
Tell him to upgrade his string though.
What string do you suggest and why?
I would be curious as to the string as well. I've been shooting my Samick Sage Deluxe for a couple months now. I don't have the measurements on me right now but I can do it when I'm home.
But I too want to upgrade my string. What type? By whom?
Several very good string makers on here but Allen at Tenring Strings makes strings for all my bows.
I have a Samick Journey 64" 45#@28, and I have a SBD 6 strand bowstring, with the Bow Hush and Hush Puppies on the string. It is quiet and smooth shooting. I have a calf hair rest and side plate.
So people do use reduced strand modern material bowstrings on the Samick bows? That's interesting.
Yes. 3Rivers advertises in the Sage description they sell FF strings for the bow.
"The Sage Takedown Recurve Bow String is a Dacron Endless loop bow string. Or you can order the Recurve 58" Fast Flight® Plus Flemish bow string to get the full performance from your Samick Sage recurve (recommended by 3Rivers Archery). Manufacturer recommended brace height: 7½" - 8½". Replacement string length of 58" recommended."
The string it comes with is fine to use until the owner wants something different or needs to replace a damaged string.
I don't shot off the shelf. I use an inexpensive stick on rest. I have the nock about 3/8" above the rest. I shot Carbon Express Predator II 30-50 at full length (29 7/8") with 3 3" feathers and 125 grain points and the seem to fly quite nicely.
Oops forgot to mention the above is on a 40 # Samick Sage and my draw length is 28"
5/8" Nocking point height off the bear hair rest that comes with the bow. Easton 2016 full length aluminum arrow with 125 or 145 grain points will work just fine.
My Sage likes an 8'' bh, nocking point at 1/2'' and I have a bear hair rest and plate. My bow is 45 and I draw 29.5'' or so though, so my arrow set up wouldn't be anywhere close to his.
The string that comes standard with a Sage is an endless loop, and is way too long even with excessive twisting. Strung up out of the box will yield less than 5" brace height. Naturally it will be noisy as hell with a bunch of hand shock. Replacing my standard string with a FF of correct length made it a whole new bow.
The bow this young man bought didn't have a low brace height. It seemed right to my eye. I'd guess 7-8 inches, definitely not 5 inches.
I've had several come through my shop, all had a pretty lousy string.
I like 18-20 strands of BCY-X or 8190, but 12 strands of Dynaflight '97 also makes a good string.
I bought a Samick Journey (64" version of the Sage) when BCY-X came out around 4 years ago. I bought it just to test the new material--liked it so much with the BCY-X string that I'm still shooting it.
Intoduced8 a good friend last summer to traditional archery and then he decided to to procure a new 45@28 Samick Sage....he draws 26"s. Established his setup after he acquired reliable form.
He is shooting a GT500 w/250 gn 2 blade. Placed him in a blind with me for the first time as he successfully scored with a complete pass thru on his first ever shot attempt in the field. The deer traveled nearly 60 yards before yielding.
The Samick Sage and setup combination proved most lethal.
After hearing all these comments maybe I will buy one for myself. I hear that Southwestern Archery or whoever it is has a 3rd version of the Sage.
I called 3rivers a couple days ago to get a recommendation on arrows for the same setup. I was recommended 500 spine 30" length arrows. I havent ordered them yet, but I'm taking in all the info here.
Chad is right about the stock string. The one that came with my Journey was like a rope! Get a new string built and it will be a much sweeter shooting bow. Great job helping a new shooter!
Cap Kirk...Why would sage send out a string that are too long for there bows???? Seems like a bad business decision to me..Just makes no sense..
Pat, it's an economy priced bow and it appears that not a lot of attention is paid to the string--that particular one might have just been mistakenly packaged with the wrong length string.
FWIW, I've seen some very expensive bows with lousy strings. I don't understand it, but it's not uncommon.
I have a 40# Sage and I shoot off of a Bear weather rest. Chucked the string and made a 14 strand dacron string. I shoot Easton legacy 1918 aluminums with 145gr up front.I trimed mine to 29"and they shoot like darts for me with parabolic fletching.
I used to have a sage, I got a FF string for it from RMSG, I never ended up using it used because it didnt end up fitting the nocks I had. I'd be happy to send it to you if you could put it to use.
I have used a Sage with the stock string as well and the string itself was fine but the serving they use is not durable at all (nylon).
I have used a BCY X string in the past and while it is slightly faster than a Dacron string it has a harsher feel on the fingers since it does not give at all.
With that being said I'd suggest a Flemish B55 string since the extra padding at the loops from the flemish will quite the limb slap down more than a served endless.
.500 spine arrows cut to either 30" or 29" will work great out of a 40# Sage with 100 grain to 145 grain points.
Beman's give the best value per dollar and are extremely durable.
Personally I like the brace height as low as possible. 8" to 7" in brace height gives me a very noticeable difference in arrow speed and how smooth the draw is (a lower brace height stacks less).
I bought the same bow 40# at 28" after my heart surgery. Replaced the string that came with it and I shoot Blackhawk carbonwoods 300's with it fletched with 51/2 inch shield cut feathers. With 125 grain zwickeys it shoots like a dart, no hand shock and no noise. Put puffballs on string and shoot off shelf with just a stick on pad on bottom and side. Killed 2 deer with it this year, both pass throughs.
Thanks for the great offer Longtoke. This is a great place to learn with incredibly generous people. I would take you up on the offer but I have no way of knowing for sure if I will see the young man again. I'd hate to take the string then just have it sit too. maybe someone else here has a Sage and has never tried an upgraded string?
QuoteOriginally posted by Patknight:
Cap Kirk...Why would sage send out a string that are too long for there bows???? Seems like a bad business decision to me..Just makes no sense..
Good question, Pat. And one I have no answer for.
To show what I mean, here is a photo of the OEM string just out of the box pictured with 5" feathers. Note their placement on the shelf. It was so far off I replaced the string without even attempting a twist-up.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3873/15065338031_87736b8bf6.jpg)
BTW, from the 3Rivers website:
"Manufacturer recommended brace height: 7½" - 8½"."
Wow that's insane Captain. I've never had an issue with Samick sending me a string that was too long.
It must be a recent issue or happen at random. I do know the strings they sent me with my bow were way too thick and stretched like crazy.
On the ones I've shot and people I've spoken with here, there's a night and day difference in the way the bow feels and performs with a high performance string material vs. Dacron. I can't tell a difference between one and the other on my fingers, but I do notice a lot less shock/vibration. Could care less about a few fps. I like the durability, consistency, and crisp feel of the shot.
The only thing I can think of on the brace height problem is the string was an actual 62" string and NOT an AMO 62" (which measures about 58") string.
62" AMO string is supposed to measure 59" under a load.(emphasis on "supposed")
http://www.outlab.it/doc/amostd.pdf
I use female velcro, 7 1/4 to 7 1/2 inch brace nock height of 1/2 inch, I have a 50 lbs so diff specs on arrows etc.
Chad is right - different bow with a good string on it. Believe the actual string length needed is closer to 58 1/2 to 3/4.
Yep--58.5" has worked great for me. On the Journey (64" version), I use a 60.5" string.
The more I look at this thread and this bow the more I think I should get one to use to start making my own strings and to have a lightweight shoot for fun bow.
I bought my Journey just to test a then-new material (BCY-X). With that string, I liked it so much I kept shooting it. That was around 4 years ago. Killed a deer, my biggest stingray to date (approx. 100#), lots more rays and fish, won a couple of long-distance novelty shoots with it...dandy bow, great for bow fishing.
If you need help with making strings, let me know. I have a DVD and have great prices on material.
Chad
I think I have your DVD from a few years ago. I took a wrong turn and been gone for a few years. I gave up on my GPS and got my bearings back so I am here again. I just might have to contact you after I watch the DVD again this next weekend.
On another note, the Sage really wakes up with a Fast Flight installed. Arrows were hitting several inches higher at 20 yards. For the MSRP of the Sage, it's really hard to beat as a first bow.
My buddy bought a 45 pound sage. It was his first bow and it shoots pretty well. With A 500 grain arrow @28 it chronoed 165 which is pretty good considering my bob lee, predator, 2 Great Plains bows shoot low 170s . He got his first recourse kill with it this season. A nice MI 6pt
As others have said. Get a fastflight bow string, it makes a whole different bow. faster, quiter, better shooting.
If you buy a Sage from Twig Archery it comes set up with shelf rest, nock point, and string silencers installed. If you requested it I'm sure John would set up with a FF string.
I got the new one piece Sage recurve recently and got a FF string for it. Same results you guys found with the takedown. It went from shooting 1816's like lasers to shooting 1916's like lasers.
I'm going to have to play the devil advocate here and suggest that if you do go with a fast flight string make sure that it's flemish twist and thick.
These skinny fast flight fingers are very hard on your fingers and just feel harsh for practically no noticeable gains in arrow speed.
I have to disagree on most points. I don't care for "skinny" strings, as I've found no real advantages to them and a few disadvantages...but for the rest...
I don't care for over-built either. 18-20 strands of BCY-X or 8190, 12 strands of Dynaflight '97, 14 strands of 8125 all give a similar diameter string that isn't really bit or really small.
The feel much better on the shot to me, reducing hand shock in any bow that has it. The shot feels more..."crisp", for lack of a better word.
Endless works just fine, if it's made correctly. I make both and shoot both endless and flemish, and have shot both on my Journey. Properly tuned, I can't tell a difference other than the looks.
Performance gain isn't the reason I use and recommend materials like BCY-X. They are more durable, more consistent, and make the bow feel better at the shot.
I'm going to have to play the devil advocate here and suggest that if you do go with a fast flight string make sure that it's flemish twist and thick.
These skinny fast flight fingers are very hard on your fingers and just feel harsh for practically no noticeable gains in arrow speed.
"I'm going to have to play the devil advocate here and suggest that if you do go with a fast flight string make sure that it's flemish twist and thick.
These skinny fast flight fingers are very hard on your fingers and just feel harsh for practically no noticeable gains in arrow speed."
I have to disagree. My 6-strand SBD is easy on my fingers, quieted the bow down, and sends an arrow down range with authority. Just tell Pierre what type of nock you are using and he gets the serving made to match.
I once put a 6 strand string on a Bear Montana and trimmed the bow ends a bit. It sure changed the bow's shooting and made it much quieter. The serving was the same size as a regular string and fit the nocks perfectly. My fingers didn't feel any difference in the string.
I have a sage #50. Before my first riser broke, I was using a Bear Weather rest with regular carbon Eastons, 55-70 I think, with the 4 inch plastic vanes and it actually shot very well, along with a 3rivers replacement string.
I loaned the limbs to a friend, and he killed a doe that next weekend.