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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Mark Colangelo on January 08, 2017, 12:05:00 AM

Title: how straight is straight enough
Post by: Mark Colangelo on January 08, 2017, 12:05:00 AM
Hey yall! So I ordered a dozen port orford cedar to learn how to build my own arrows. I am toying with straighening them all using all methods to see what works and enjoy the process. However, I saw so many guys prefer douglas fir and specifically surewoods. A good many guys said they rarely have to straighten at all as they come very straight. I have a spin tester and none of the arrows spins anything like my carbon arrow I use for reference. Some seem pretty good to me and about half have a pretty decent wobble to them. My biggest question is how straight do they really need to be to be ethically accurate? I have gotten them all to a point where they spin mostly true but not perfect. Being that I am at the point where I was holding a 6 inch group at 25 most rounds, will an arrow still outperform my own capabilities? I have heard that making sure the nock and point are balanced and on straight are far more important. What are yalls opinions on shooting less than perfectly straight shafts?
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: McDave on January 08, 2017, 12:47:00 AM
My experience is that I rarely get a wood arrow to spin as straight as a carbon. Maybe 1 or 2 out of a dozen. 8 or 9 can be straightened pretty well, so there are just minor blips. 3 or 4 will lose their straightness in a day or so and have to be restraightened. 1 or 2 never really get straight enough to compete or hunt with.

BTW, I usually order 2 dozen POC shafts. I get a good dozen to start with, have 7-8 good replacements as some get lost or broken, and 3-4 to use for stumping or tomato stakes.
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: Ari_Bonn on January 08, 2017, 12:59:00 PM
I use an aluminum shaft straightener with a soft pad for woodies.  With PoC you can very easily get to .005" or even under.  

With my other preferred woods between .005" - .010" is good enough for me
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: on January 08, 2017, 01:43:00 PM
A slightly bent wood arrow will often fly better and more accurate than a slightly bent aluminum arrow.   I once bought cheap wood arrows off ****, (shoot aways for small game), what was in the package was hilarious.   They were obviously someone's reject pile.  When I wasn't looking they moved.  I used heat to get them workable and when cut to net length with blunts they flew fine.   I figured they were so bad that I didn't bother with any finish, after I shot them and decided they were arrows after all, I used car wax as finish.  Good enough for the pheasants and rabbits on this side of town.    Most of the time I do not need to do all that much straightening with new wood shafts.
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: M60gunner on January 08, 2017, 04:09:00 PM
I get them as straight as possible. Yes, some stay, some do not. That's part of wood arrow experience. I use heat and pressure on the worst ones. Otherwise just use my hand.
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: Shadowhnter on January 08, 2017, 06:08:00 PM
So far Ive hand straightened all my cedars and Doug firs. Are they perfectly straight like a carbon or aluminum?  No, but then again they fly just as good and hit where im looking anyway. Anytime I hear where someone is concerned about little irregularities in wood, I remind them of how much more imperfect cane arrows tend to be, yet they fly as good or better then any other material. The main problems you get into with less then perfect shafts, is not in shooting or accuracy, but in painting and cresting....which I dont mess with any way.
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: slowbowjoe on January 08, 2017, 06:19:00 PM
I put a lot of attention to keeping them straight each step of the buildine process, They tend to stay straight once fully sealed, unless I ding them with an arrow or a ricochet.I use an Ace roller-straightener and a spin tester, all along.
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: Pine on January 08, 2017, 06:24:00 PM
There is such a thing as good enough .
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: Sam McMichael on January 08, 2017, 06:45:00 PM
Arrows don't need to be perfect to be effective. Most wood arrows can be straightened to a level at which they are more accurate than any of us can hold. Those that just don't perform should simply be discarded.
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: fujimo on January 08, 2017, 06:50:00 PM
i spoke to Suzanne St Charles- she says she straightens all shafts- and she only uses premiums. its a natural product! as long as your point and nock are in teh same plane- it should fly well- a correctly tuned shaft doesnt really touch the riser  after release, check out the opening scenes on this video- only the first inch or so actually touches the riser.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96KGWC0PB6s
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: Floxter on January 08, 2017, 08:19:00 PM
Try reading Rick McKinney's tutorial on the Carbon Tech website (www.carbontecharrows.com) which explains the effects of straightness, spine, and weight. You might be surprised.
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: McDave on January 08, 2017, 08:31:00 PM
I generally have one of my "culls" in my quiver for risky shots so I won't cry too much if it gets lost or breaks.  It always amazes me when I can sometimes hit the target from 70-80 yards with a crooked arrow, and sometimes can't hit it at 40 yards with a straight arrow.
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: Mark Colangelo on January 09, 2017, 09:04:00 PM
awesome...thanks guys!
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: FlintNSteel on January 10, 2017, 08:09:00 PM
I agree with the statement that for some reason a slightly crooked wood shaft will fly better than an aluminum with the same amount of crookedness.  

That said, I hook straighten all my wood shafts until they spin as true as possible...many spin as well as aluminum or carbon.  This aids in making straight tapers (which is probably more critical) and also for better cresting.  Trying to crest a wobbling shaft is an exercise in futility!  I usually buy premium shafts as the small extra cost really pays off when it comes to getting shafts that are mostly straight already.

I have had great success with hook-straightened shafts staying straight.  I assume any tool that crushes the fibers to release stress to straighten (like the roller tools) would be just as good as a hook.
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: maineac on January 11, 2017, 08:46:00 AM
To add on, do you find the "doesn't matter too much" on perfectly straight to carry through with broadheads?  In the carbon and aluminium they fly well with blunts and field points if not a perfect spine, but plane once a broadhead is added?
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: JR Belk on January 11, 2017, 09:27:00 AM
It's not hard to make a wood shaft as straight or straighter than most carbons. Take your time and it'll pay off. What most consider "good enough" is definitely not good enough for me.
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: Terry Green on January 11, 2017, 10:14:00 AM
Didn't read all the replies...but as straight as possible or as you can get them....not sure if it was mentioned....

But a bent arrow will have less dimensional stability at impact and will bend to the bend expending energy to perform as intended as the weight of the arrow will no longer be behind the head to push...but will push to bend the arrow further.
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: Mark Colangelo on January 12, 2017, 12:25:00 AM
Terry thank you! That is interesting and I had not heard that before
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: crazynate on January 12, 2017, 07:08:00 AM
That was a sweet video. Thanks for posting that.
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: Bill Carlsen on January 12, 2017, 08:27:00 PM
Curt Cabrera (Guru) has a tutorial on the how to thread about how to straighten wood arrows. When I made arrows it was the best way to get wood straight and they stayed straight.
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: Hud on January 14, 2017, 12:57:00 AM
Grain run-out and bare shafts that absorb moisture will not stay straight.  Use the compression method, to straighten shafts them dip in a sealer. You can wrap with clear wrap if you are not finishing them. Lacquer and a clear coat will help keep them straight. Moisture content in wood shafts should be below 8% before sealing. Do not wrap tapered shafts tight, or they will be bent.
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: Tajue17 on January 27, 2017, 01:05:00 PM
I straighten them only once!  after that I just keep checking them and usually by the time the season comes around I still have at least 3 that are still looking straight and these are the ones that get the broadheads....those 3 will be in a certain order too based on how good each one shoots and sometimes the last one needs a different broadhead to fly as good as the #1 arrow.

I don't bother with re straightening my arrows over and over again but they usually are not even that bad to bein with because I do try to only buy from places I had the best luck with.
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: Brock on January 27, 2017, 01:29:00 PM
first thing is stop trying to make everything like a carbon arrow...not needed and impossible to achieve with mother nature.  

I work to get all big bends out of shaft...rolling on flat surface to observe high spots that cause wobble.  I either hand straighten or use a compression tool to help flatten the high spots.  THey are never perfect.  Then after staining and sealing...I spin test my arrows to ensure I have broadhead on straight...like a top, not in a spin tool. If it spins like a top with no or very minimal wobble then it is good. If I notice any wobble they get reheated and adjust the fit of the broadhead again...repeat until I notice no wobble when spinning them on flat surface on the broadhead tip.

A wood arrow that is good enough...is more than most will ever need or notice.

That being said, out of a dozen arrows...I will compare them all once done and number them 1-12 with 1 being best.  Shoot accordingly.
keep em sharp,

ron herman
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: SuperK on January 27, 2017, 03:40:00 PM
I use the shank of a screwdriver to straighten my shafts.  I eyeball it and then work on the high spots.  If you take your time you will be surprised with how straight you can get them.  It is VERY IMPORTANT that you start with quality shafts to start with. It don't get any better than douglas fir from Surewood shafts and/or cedar from Wapiti.  When I used to use "bargin shafting" from other places, I would normally get 4 or 5 arrows out of a dozen that would spin true enough for broadheads.  Now with Surewood and Wapiti shafts, they ALL turn out good enough for broadheads.    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: how straight is straight enough
Post by: on January 27, 2017, 04:56:00 PM
I roll wood shafts initially to get them straight and have a roller to target broadheads, to get them straight.  I have never been able to get an aluminum arrow, once bent, to roll flat.   I got a a bunch of old target fiberglass arrows and shafts that were discarded from a college archery program, I was surprised how crooked many of them were, they made good tomato stakes.  I had some chundoo shafts, that had kinks in them, I got them all passable, but they took more work than I was prepared for and a few of them still were not all that good.