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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Learner on January 05, 2017, 11:52:00 AM
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After seeing a response which I received on a similar topic, I realized that I needed to ask a different question.
Basically, I'm looking to order a Hill bow with clear glass over the lams, both on the back and belly.
I intend to use this bow eventually for hunting, and therefore would rather have the back and belly lams to be a darker color than the standard bamboo.
It was brought to my attention that I might not like the look of carmelized bamboo under the clear glass. So now I'm leaning towards a Halfbreed with yew for the outer lams.
So if anyone has a glassed Hill, could you please share your photos and opinions here? Thank you much in advance!
Following are some specific questions I'd like to see answered:
--- will the clear glass actually be transparent, or more of a "hazy translucent"?
--- is "clear fiberglass" actually fiberglass, and if so, does it have the same performance characteristics?
--- does it hold up well visually, or does it tend to reveal yellowing, cloudiness, checking or fine cracks, as it ages?
--- with clear glass, should I be requesting a satin or a gloss finish?
Thank you very much,
Frank
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Frank, you might want to seriously consider the Half Breed from Hill. It has bamboo cores and yew for the outer laminations or lots of folks like the Cheetah also--both are beautiful bows. I am very partial to yew and have a Redman that has four laminations of yew under clear glass with an ebony riser which is very dark and a nice contrast to the yew. The more recently purchased bows I have had made with colored glass as it is more like the bows I started with years ago (before we even used the term "traditional archery). I do have several bows with clear glass and on all of them the glass is very clear and not hazy. But there is an issue with a lot of the clear glass in that some of it has streaks in it that don't generally show up until the bows are well along in the process when the tape is removed that covers the glass initially. I would discuss that matter with Craig when you order the bow.
The performance is the same between my different bows whether clear or colored glass. The choice of gloss or satin is just a matter of your preference. I personally don't think it matters for hunting purposes--some guys say it does and others regularly kill game with glossy bows.
Sorry but I don't have any pictures to post.
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I have a friend who owns a HHA bow with yew limbs under clear glass. It looks very nice.
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Here re photos of my Cheetah. Clear glass can have streaks and show imperfections in the veneers/lams.
(http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s331/selfbow19953/Cheetah/Cheetah-04.jpg) (http://s509.photobucket.com/user/selfbow19953/media/Cheetah/Cheetah-04.jpg.html)
(http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s331/selfbow19953/Cheetah/Cheetah-02.jpg) (http://s509.photobucket.com/user/selfbow19953/media/Cheetah/Cheetah-02.jpg.html)
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Just give Craig a call at HHA
DDave
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This is a JD Berry, not a Hill, but it is yew with clear glass to give you an idea. (http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac67/peastes/IMG_1779_zpsdm5iykzw.jpg) (http://s886.photobucket.com/user/peastes/media/IMG_1779_zpsdm5iykzw.jpg.html)
The same bow, this time in overcast conditions.
(http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac67/peastes/IMG_0526_zpssmuemzr2.jpg) (http://s886.photobucket.com/user/peastes/media/IMG_0526_zpssmuemzr2.jpg.html)
And a Cheetah. (http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac67/peastes/2dd99e5a-fc1d-477e-95d2-1dde0399cf52_zps5d29a0a5.jpg) (http://s886.photobucket.com/user/peastes/media/2dd99e5a-fc1d-477e-95d2-1dde0399cf52_zps5d29a0a5.jpg.html)
I have a Wesley with caramelized bamboo, this Cheetah, and a Redman. All are good bows, and wood choices are more personal than performance driven. I will say that my Redman is the quietest bow I own, followed closely by my JD Berrys.
My next bow will be a Berry that will be all osage, so I will have quite the colorful bow rack.
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I have a serious prejudice concerning knots in active lams. My Cheetah shows some stuff at a knot as well. It has not changed over time, but a knot is a very stubborn chunk of stuff. It is like a big wart on the nose of a beautiful woman.
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I don't have photos but the carmalized bamboo looks just fine to me in the field. There's a bit of variation of the length of the bow. A nice low carmel color as opposed to brighter clear bamboo, other woods show up nice as well.....
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Phil my guess is your streaks are more to do with lack of glue in those knots.
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Originally posted by David Mitchell:
Frank, you might want to seriously consider the Half Breed from Hill. It has bamboo cores and yew for the outer laminations or lots of folks like the Cheetah also--both are beautiful bows. I am very partial to yew and have a Redman that has four laminations of yew under clear glass with an ebony riser which is very dark and a nice contrast to the yew. The more recently purchased bows I have had made with colored glass as it is more like the bows I started with years ago (before we even used the term "traditional archery). I do have several bows with clear glass and on all of them the glass is very clear and not hazy. But there is an issue with a lot of the clear glass in that some of it has streaks in it that don't generally show up until the bows are well along in the process when the tape is removed that covers the glass initially. I would discuss that matter with Craig when you order the bow.
The performance is the same between my different bows whether clear or colored glass. The choice of gloss or satin is just a matter of your preference. I personally don't think it matters for hunting purposes--some guys say it does and others regularly kill game with glossy bows.
Sorry but I don't have any pictures to post.
Thank you for your advice, David. I am strongly leaning towards the Half-Breed now. Although I may still go for the Wesley, but with the outer two lams being yew. (I wonder how that would be named? A Wesley Half-Breed? ;) ).
Thanks also for the warning about the clear glass "streaks". I'll be certain to ask Craig about this.
Best wishes,
Frank
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Thank you for the photos, Pat. They are very helpful.
Are all your bows satin finish, gloss, or a mixture? I can't tell for certain from the photos, but they look like they might be satin.
Best wishes,
Frank
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Originally posted by SELFBOW19953:
Here re photos of my Cheetah. Clear glass can have streaks and show imperfections in the veneers/lams.
(http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s331/selfbow19953/Cheetah/Cheetah-04.jpg) (http://s509.photobucket.com/user/selfbow19953/media/Cheetah/Cheetah-04.jpg.html)
(http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s331/selfbow19953/Cheetah/Cheetah-02.jpg) (http://s509.photobucket.com/user/selfbow19953/media/Cheetah/Cheetah-02.jpg.html)
Thank you for the Cheetah photo, Phil. Photos like these are exactly what I need to help inform my decision.
The pictures on Craig's site are too limited for me to be able to see details like this.
Best wishes,
Frank
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Originally posted by damascusdave:
Just give Craig a call at HHA
DDave
I definitely plan on doing so. I've talked to him several times already about different things.
But to me it's like hiring someone to do any job: you want to see examples of their work. Or more broadly, in this case, examples of how the different woods appear under clear glass, irrespective of the actual quality of the work (although that definitely matters, also).
I find myself leaning towards the yew at this point.
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Originally posted by mjh:
I don't have photos but the carmalized bamboo looks just fine to me in the field. There's a bit of variation of the length of the bow. A nice low carmel color as opposed to brighter clear bamboo, other woods show up nice as well.....
Michael, if you get a chance, and can snap even a few photos with a cell phone, I'd love to see them. If you can't get them posted here, you could message here on the forum directly.
Thanks,
Frank
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Originally posted by pavan:
I have a serious prejudice concerning knots in active lams. My Cheetah shows some stuff at a knot as well. It has not changed over time, but a knot is a very stubborn chunk of stuff. It is like a big wart on the nose of a beautiful woman.
I'm with you, Lawrence: I don't particularly like knots that are visible, either.
From some of the photos posted here so far it looks as though the yew may possibly have less of these?
Best wishes,
Frank
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Originally posted by Learner:
Thank you for the photos, Pat. They are very helpful.
Are all your bows satin finish, gloss, or a mixture? I can't tell for certain from the photos, but they look like they might be satin.
Best wishes,
Frank
I am a fan of satin finishes, and that is what all my bows have.
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Originally posted by Learner:
Originally posted by mjh:
I don't have photos but the carmalized bamboo looks just fine to me in the field. There's a bit of variation of the length of the bow. A nice low carmel color as opposed to brighter clear bamboo, other woods show up nice as well.....
Michael, if you get a chance, and can snap even a few photos with a cell phone, I'd love to see them. If you can't get them posted here, you could message here on the forum directly.
Thanks,
Frank [/b]
mhj sent me the following photos, which I'm posting here with his commentary. These are very helpful to me, as they provide a good view of the carmelized bamboo. Thanks, Michael!
**************
mjh says:
The photos are of my HH Big Five Caramelized Bamboo Clear Glass. The Camera I'm using is not the best, photos are outside at the local range in various light conditions. I was trying to match different knives I had with different bows. Don't have that particular knife anymore.
(http://i.imgur.com/ya1fVHM.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/QiXzJiP.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/CdmbgI5.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/EfoPwkA.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/AaU9VLW.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/cScWqyR.jpg)
**************
Thanks,
Frank [/qb][/QUOTE]
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After seeing Michael's photos, I would say that it's a hard call.
But I think that I'm leaning towards the Half-Breed, with the two outer lams being yew, and the two inner ones being the standard bamboo, under clear glass, with a satin finish.
For the riser I would like to have the Texas Ebony, with the same for the limb tips.
And possibly the wine colored grip wrap, with stitching.
So many choices! :eek:
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Sounds like a good choice. :thumbsup:
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A mighty purty Cheetah I once owned.RC
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_0901.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/rcswampbucket/media/IMG_0901.jpg.html)
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(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_0898.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/rcswampbucket/media/IMG_0898.jpg.html)
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(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_0898.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/rcswampbucket/media/IMG_0898.jpg.html)
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Helicopter I killed with it...lol
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_0939.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/rcswampbucket/media/IMG_0939.jpg.html)
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Of the Hill bows Craig builds the Wesley is my favorite. RC
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_0820-1.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/rcswampbucket/media/IMG_0820-1.jpg.html)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_0858.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/rcswampbucket/media/IMG_0858.jpg.html)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_0816.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/rcswampbucket/media/IMG_0816.jpg.html)
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Big Five carmelized boo..
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_1434.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/rcswampbucket/media/IMG_1434.jpg.html)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_1419.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/rcswampbucket/media/IMG_1419.jpg.html)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_1443.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/rcswampbucket/media/IMG_1443.jpg.html)
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Beautiful bows, Rob.! Thank you for the pics.
And nice 'copter "harvest". Did you use one of Rambo's exploding points?
:bigsmyl:
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All of my bows, with the exception of a couple Bears, have clear glass over the veneers.
I think all bowyers fight the same problem of streaks showing up in the glass and that's something they have no control over, but it seems to be most noticeable over dark veneers. Gloss, satin or matt; doesn't seem to make too much difference in whether streaks are present, since the surface is controlled by the finish sprayed over the glass.
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My thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. It's been very helpful to have your feedback and photos.
Yesterday evening I was blessed to have a long conversation with a long time practitioner of the Hill method. The insights I gained from him have helped me to further refine my choices for my first ASL custom order.
So as of now, here are current choices:
-- Hill Big 5 takedown, with all carmelized lams, and the large takedown grip
-- 45# @ 27", 66" length
-- brown glass on back, clear glass on belly
-- no tip overlays
-- locator wedge for index finger, and locator spline (made from wrap material) under belly axis of grip
-- wine colored grip wrap, laced
One of many interesting points which this individual raised is that the tip overlays add weight to an area where it is not good to add weight.
I found that especially significant because on my own I had already been having thoughts about that issue. This is because years ago I fly fished for a hobby. So when trying to decide whether to have tip overlays or not, it occurred to me that this could be similar to trying to flycast a heavy bass fly: the fly adds so much mass to the leader that it negatively affects the flight of the line. Now I know that the masses here are quite different, but so are the velocities. So his unsolicited opinion confirmed my suspicions. Maybe the difference is only slight, but I can live without the overlays in favor of possibly better performance, less hand shock, etc.
Well, some of my choices could yet change. But this is currently where I'm leaning.
Frank
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Looks like it will be a fine bow.
Trying to visualize a locator wedge for the index finger and a locator spline. The takedown sleeve Craig uses is smooth, so either of these things will have to be built up under or over the leather grip. Regardless, a lot of Hill shooters, myself included, would consider them unnecessary. It's not difficult to correctly grip a Hill.
Your long-time practitioner has given you his personal preference for the grip. It may or may not work for you. They may turnout to be irritating pressure points for you. However, since they'll likely be formed with leather, they'll be easily removable if they don't work for you.
Hill limb tip overlays are so small as to have virtually no noticeable effect on the bow's performance. Of course, Hills do have a wedge in the limb tip area and overlays aren't really needed. More a personal preference than performance thing IMO.
It's difficult to account for all the variables on your first bow of a different type. After you shoot one for a while, you'll have a lot better idea of what works for you and what doesn't. Good luck.
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Thank you, Jerry, especially for the information regarding the tip wedges. You're the second person who has mentioned this to me.
Are those wedges made of the glass being used, or the lams wood?
Also, do you find it easy to consistently locate your hand on that large takedown grip? Without the taper at the backside like the one piece bows, I wonder how the consistency would be for me.
Thank you,
Frank
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I have shot fast flyte on both homemade and Bought Hill bows that had no tip wedge or overlays. MANY shots through them but with that said the amount of speed you lose from a tip wedge will be unnoticed. I actually don`t think there is a shooter alive that could tell the difference. RC
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Lerner, the wedges on the Hills I've had and have all have been fiberglass, though I suppose Craig would put in a hardwood wedge if someone wanted it.
Guess I've never found it difficult to position my hand on any riser, and, in fact, a little variation really doesn't make any difference. If you shoot split vision, like Hill did and I do, your subconscious orients the arrow where it needs to be vis-a-vis the target regardless of where your hand is on the grip. I could grip an inch below the shelf and still shoot an accurate arrow.
Just as important is not torquing the bow by gripping the riser too tightly. I start the draw with the grip pressing gently into the palm of my hand and keep a relaxed, relatively open hand during the draw, letting the riser find where it wants to be in my hand. I lightly close my fingers around the riser as I reach full draw. This results in a firm, but not strangulation type grip, which doesn't torque the bow and reduces hand shock transferred from the bow to your bow arm.
Hills are fun to shoot. I think you'll like it.
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Thank you, Robert and Jerry.