What do you use for rabbits and hares? I was thinking of buying some steel blunts that Big Jim sells but just read they tend to go right through small game... Also, I'll be hunting deep snow in Idaho on skis - any suggestions or insight would be much appreciated!
Many Thanks and Happy Holidays!
I am gonna try some zwickey Condors this year for bunnies in the snow. They are judos on steroids.
I like judos, but I have experienced what many others have, pass thrus on bunnies. They die, but they sometimes make it to their burrow. I bet if I hit one with a Condor it won't pass thru. Another option in snow might be a rubber or plastic bludgeon head. If nothing else it will make a heck of a hole in the snow for finding the arrow.
We have snow here, but nothing like in the mountains where 3-6' base might not be unusual.
Broadheads. Especially on Jackrabbits.
Hexhead blunt/points blow a big hole in them w/o taking your arrow
Hexhead blunts X2
I like the RFA Talons for small game hunting. They do good damage, blend shock and cutting damage, don't skip under grass very bad, fly like darts, and are incredibly durable against rocks/tree trunks that they bounce off of.
http://www.broadheadtalk.com/fixed-blade-broadheads/439-rfa-talon-overview-vids.html
Charlie Lamb has hunted bunnies in the deep snow as much as anybody, lets see what he says.
ChuckC
My hunting buddy and I use wicket judo point all
winter in the snow with generally no problems. I won't say I've never lost an arrow but no mater how deep the snow it usually fetches up on something and can be found. We have over 40 inches on the ground now.I may have to check out the zwickeycondor
A washer works pretty good
(http://i.imgur.com/NYWZoEA.jpg)
What always got it done day after day for me were plain old steel blunts. They do provide shock which helps stop the rabbit/hare pretty good... nothing is 100%.
The current manifestations of the steel blunt should work super. Especially if you never miss. Though not terribly bad arrow mortality is to be expected so the special blunts tend to drive the losing cost up.
Back when I was shooting 55#+ bows I killed a lot of cottontails and snowshoes with HTM rubber blunts. They would really anchor a bunny.
Except for Jackrabbits where they are mandatory, broadheads are overkill not to mention that they glance badly on frozen ground and deflect just as bad in brush. And of course there is the expense when arrows are lost.
I wouldn't worry myself about lost arrows. I found a long time ago that you usually don't lose many even in deep snow. Consider it the price of the sport.
The trick to minimizing arrow loss, if there is one, is to look for them right away. Don't get carried away shooting multiple shots unless you are ready to lose arrows. This is especially true in snow.
The arrow is going to make a hole in the snow that will help lead you to it if you don't tromp around and destroy the evidence of its passing.
I've heard of guys using a 3 foot piece of thread on the arrow to help find it in snow as well as putting carpenters chalk on it for the same purpose.
I don't recommend using scrap arrows for small game. I mean why would you expect success on small difficult targets with less than well matched arrows.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/charlie/Snowbunny2.jpg)
Good advice Charlie, thanks for sharing
Hi
To me its broadheads just for the sake of fast and clean kill. My bows are 43 - 54# and and lighter bow dont give adequate punch with any kind of blunts - but perhaps we have thougher Hares here :D
And it is amazing, how far a arrow travels under snow, so you really have to give it time to plow through that snow to your arrow...chartreuse fletching and arrowwrap do help to recover a snow buried arrow...
Charlie, who's that young guy in your post? :bigsmyl:
riivioristo...
I have seen some of the hares in Europe. Don't know about everywhere, but I saw some in a field in Poland that I thought were calves ! WAY bigger than anything I have ever seen here. Probably mean and bloodthirsty too !
Merry Christmas
ChuckC
FYI- For those not familiar with hexhead blunts- the front end is especially tooled so as the edges forming the hex head are actually sharp (and can be sharpened some). It surprising how they blow a big hole through critters.
Just more info. . .
Dan in KS
I use SGT from VPA they work very good with my setup.
I have used hex heads (and they are a favorite for stumping and for skwerls), but it seems they go right thru rabbits, same with smaller judos. Yup, they die, but often make it back to their burrow. I have lost several that way. That's why I am gonna try the Kondors ( K, not C) this year. I hope there is enough wing to keep them from blowing thru the bunny. Of course, they are not perfect. With that much wing they would be impractical if the bunnies are in thick cover.. Also playing with just plain .357 cases. I have a bunch of woodies that seem to be too soft for my bow. Maybe that will get them useable.
Chuck- Good input on hexheads. Though that is why you hit them in the head or the boiler room. :) Merry Christmas. .
On another note- if losing them was the issue I would back the Ace hex blunt with the Zwickey Broadhead Stopper (Judo spring that goes over the shaft.) It slides down the shaft as needed upon the hit.
Dan in KS
That might be a good idea too. I will give that a try. I aim for the head, but I often don't hit the head... (trying to say I suck nicely).
ChuckC
I use hex blunts, Zwickey Judos and HTM rubber blunts. Usually carry one or two of each in my quiver, plus a broad head or two for open shots. A hit in the head or boiler room, and any of the heads will anchor a bunny. Like Chuck, I have had them slip the arrow and make it to their borrow/hole before dying, when shot in other areas.
I have been wanting to try the hex heads with a judo scorpion, that looks like it would be an awesome combo. I like that the hex heads come in so many weights too.
The VPA SGT look kind of like the hex heads but maybe more of a sharp scalloped edge. I have some of them and they are pretty lethal.
This rabbit was killed from a sgt that hit the ground just before the rabbit (my bad) but bounced into his chest and sent him running in a death circle. pretty good rabbit medicine if you ask me.
(http://i.imgur.com/EgnSKk2.jpg)
I want to try one of those "trantula blunts" made out of the cut up htm rubber blunts and a steel blunt inside.
I like old Bodkins or MA3s. When dogs are around Judo's work fine, and are usually easier to find.
Just ordered some VPA SGTs. We'll see how I do!
I shot a poor squirrel this year with a steel blunt. It did plenty of damage and got lots of blood but he still ran off. Im sure he died, but I think a broadhead would have finished him right away.
The blunt just smashed his lower jaw and his sinuses I guess. He didnt stick around for the follow up. Poor thing, but thats hunting.
I shot a poor squirrel this year with a steel blunt. It did plenty of damage and got lots of blood but he still ran off. Im sure he died, but I think a broadhead would have finished him right away.
The blunt just smashed his lower jaw and his sinuses I guess. He didnt stick around for the follow up. Poor thing, but thats hunting.
'the hammer' has worked 100% for me on three pheasants and a few rabbits for me this year. They are $11.99 plus shipping from 3 rivers. that plus shipping part bugs me a a bit, but still, they work.
RJ: Squirrels are a lot tougher than bunnies, IMO. For those, I use a broad head whenever I can.
For rabbit I would use Judo points. You can almost scare a rabbit to death. They are probably the easiest of game to kill. It's finding your arrow after the shot is hard. A Judo makes that part of the shot a bit easier.
I'm with stagetek use 3 blade bh. Bleed em. The three blade seems to go less distance under the snow then a two blade.Bodkins are my favorite sharpened quick on a belt sander two blades at a time.
QuoteOriginally posted by KSdan:
Hexhead blunt/points blow a big hole in them w/o taking your arrow
X3
Guess rabbits are different in different places. FWIW, I've shot and killed a ton of them, cottontails (hillybillys)and swamp rabbits. Judo's, rubber blunts, and regular blunts only work for me if the shot is perfect--solid head shot or square in the vitals. I've nailed rabbits solid with rubber blunts from an 82# longbow and had them run off.
The best head I've used is a cheap broadhead, and we've lost rabbits with those. Had them get in a hole literally dragging their guts behind them.
Not as tough as a squirrel, but they have proven themselves to be tough around here.
I have hit squirrels with the old style bludgeons and they hit the ground dead, I have hit rabbits with loaded HTMs and have had them run off and I have had them die on the spot. I have hit them with broadheads and had them get away as well. It all depends where I hit them. The steel Hammer is better for me, at least, so far, ones not hit just right have not gotten away from me. I always used three blade heads when we had many whitetailed jack rabbits around here, an HTM was not a suitable head for them at all. I have seen both pheasants and rabbits get away when hit with judo points, I have never killed anything with a judo myself, too expensive.
I have been using G5 small game heads these last few weeks. So far I have been happy with their performance on snowshoes and spruce hens and squirrels here in AK. Did break off a claw on a rock. The head still flies well and has taken a bird since being broken.
Best of luck!
I've heard judos were not the best for small game and birds in tight cover as the arms can catch on branches and deflect the shot... but that's just what I've heard. I hate loosing arrows and judos are good for preventing that!
IDK I personally think a lot of things will work or wont work. It's more about getting something to thump them good in the breadbox.
I havent connected with one yet, but I bet these would work well too
http://images.lancasterarchery.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/13db83bec1fbd986744c31150a1b2502/1/3/1310008.jpg
easy to match weight of your current set up too! just get a field point 25 grains lighter and toss one of these behind.
Has anyone used the Talon heads made by Red Feather Archery? They look like great small game medicine to me, but are a little on the expensive side.
I have about 200 brand new old stock Bodkin 3-blade broadheads. I'm thinking about taking a Dremel and cutting off the first 1/2 inch or so, so that the impact is on the blunt flattened end of the broadhead. Seems like something I wouldn't want to get smacked by.
Archie, I am thinking that would be great. I often hunt with a group (WTA) at one of the members farms and with a group plus some dogs along, we have a rule... no broadheads. Otherwise, I likely would be doing the same. I also have a (smaller) stock in old Bodkins just asking for a chance.
I shot one last year with a judo point and balled him up, only to see him jump up and run off. I also hit one with a feild point last year, and he ran off with my arrow never to be recovered. This year I am shooting Magnus classics, and have not lost one yet. It comes down to shot placement, just like any animal. I keep a 10' roll of barbed wire in my truck with a small hook fashioned on the end, and have pulled countless rabbits out of their holes with it.