So over the last couple years I've been constantly changing my arrow setup. Carbon to aluminum back to carbon adding more and more weight.
Why??? :dunno:
With all this talk of foc, efoc, ultra efoc, has anyone else just gotten sick of tinkering??? I mean I really don't need all this extreme penetration that everyone is pressing for, the biggest animal I hunt are whitetails not exactly a Cape buffalo. What happened to some good old wood arrows and a 125 head and good to go?
Don't get me wrong I have nothing against shooting foc, efoc, I just like things simple. That's part of what I like about trad, it's simple.
Needless to say there's some woodies with some zwickey's calling my name that are going to find a nice comfy home in my quiver and stay there.
Sorry for the long ramble just wanted to see if anyone else was in the same boat.
I am not, and never have been much of a tinkerer! I find a setup that works, and that's what I stick with. I hate even changing out strings!
Bisch
Keep it simple. That's the point of using Trad gear.
I really wanted to keep things simple when I started out on traditional archery. The arra calculator at Rose city Archery said I should shoot a 11/32" dia., 30" long, 55-60spine cedar arrow with a 125grain head. Field points and Eskimos fly the same. Those specs make a really nice arrow for me and my 45" recurve. I feel very lucky.
"What happened to some good old wood arrows and a 125 head and good to go?" Works for a lot of us. The forums and sites are full of tinkering this and tinkering that. Too much time spent on tinkering with equipment and specs to find the magic. And everyone has an opinion. I've tried it all over 40 years an I also agree the magic is in SIMPLE. Learn to shoot whatever you have in your hands. My opinion is,put more effort in becoming better hunter than the equipment
What Bisch said
Terry
Tinkering is fun. And it keeps our traditional supply houses in business. I like making arrows and getting a new brand to try.
Also for the most part, for all their precision carbon arrows don't shoot as easily as they should from traditional bows. So you chase and change. You hit on something that works. Then you a few weeks later it's rubbing the side plate, so you tweak again.
I always wonder if an arrow manufacturer has tried to make a solid shaft.
I tinker enough to get good arrow flight when paper tuning and that's it.
I've had great luck with all carbon and carbon/aluminum combo shafts, 4" feathers, and have been using only 1 broadhead for 7 years.
I tune for a quiet bow and arrows that fly true. I might, for fun put it through a chronograph. Except for restoring brace height (string stretch) I rarely do anything to my set-ups once I have em.
If you dont like to tinker, then dont tinker. If tinkering is part of the enjoyment, tinker away! Why limit what we call fun?
Tinker till you find a solid system that works for you, then stop tinkering. :thumbsup:
It's just plain fun to tinker. It's not like I throw out my tried and true setups. I have many arrows and many bows and they all kill game and I appreciate hunting and shooting with all of them.
Tinkering is like changing fletch color or setting up a new stand. It keeps it fun. Ever find yourself saying " I really wanted to shoot a deer with that new hunting arrow I setup."
tinkering is fun with a new bow but once I find a arrow that matches it that's it!
I have bows that shoot aluminums, some bows shoot woods and some carbons.
as far as the whole foc thing I never payed any attention to it because if your bow and arrow set up has decent cast which basically means does the arrow fly good and hit where your looking,,, if yes then everything about that entire bow and arrow set up is perfect! now scout hard and find Meat...
I've got to say that I really enjoy this aspect. Bareshafting tells me much about not only my set up but my form flaws. Shooting a longbow that is not cut anywhere near center and dropping bow weight has kept me busy searching for just the right arrow-- which I've now got. A friend told me that once you find the right arrow ( in carbons at least), buy 5 doz as they will quit making them--- found that to be true. I not only tinker w my gear, but have made changes to my form and style of shooting that have improved my accuracy as well. I do spend more time than is probably necessary on this, but it keeps me out of trouble.
I like tinkering but I get carried away. Trying everything out is fun but at the end of the day, the only stuff that has stuck has been that which makes me more accurate.
Nothing wrong with tinkering , but for me the fun part is the shooting .
Calculating and changing things shouldn't be done when you are learning to shoot .
I honestly couldn't even guess what my FOC ratio is or what the kinetic energy of my arrow is .
But nothing wrong with tinkering , just do it when your not going to be hunting soon .
QuoteOriginally posted by Sawpilot 75:
Keep it simple. That's the point of using Trad gear.
Not to me;-) In my opinion, the point of using trad gear is it's fun and relies more on me than the bow!
I enjoy the tinkering part and have a plethora of arrows and inserts and can make multiple bows work. I am narrowed down to what works best overall for me for the most part, but am ready for anything and everything!
I am not a "tinkerer" (is that a word?) BUT I do like to improve my set up when I run into information that would make what I shoot more proficient.
I have shot the same bow since 1994. Got new limbs to lower my poundage but everything else is the same. Arrows have evolved though. Started with 2013 Aluminums with 125grain Thunderheads. Killed a couple but boy did things go to another level when I went to carbon and Ultra FOC with a Cut to Point broad head.
When I read Ashby's research it was not just opinion but solid research showing what could be accomplished with the right set up when using low poundage bows.
Then I read the part about the weakness of the aluminum inserts and changed to brass. No more shattered inserts when hitting bone.
I guess tinkering depends on what is trying to be accomplished. If there is not a destiny involved I guess you can just keep going around the mountain. Guys I know that buy lots of bows and change arrows a lot just enjoy that sort of thing and I think that's cool.
Some like tinkering and some don't. I don't. For one thing, I am not handy with it, and secondly, I don't see a real need for most of it. Like Bisch, when I find a good combo, I stay with it.
Mostly, I hunt Georgia white tails. I found out a long time ago, that essentially any arrow that tunes well off any of my hunting bows is heavy enough and penetrative enough to cleanly take a deer. Granted, if I ever go after considerably bigger game, I may need to re-think this a little.
I do feel that many newer guys in particular fixate on "stuff" that just ain't that big a deal, when what they need more is to practice a lot with concentration on form. After the form is solidified, then let the fine tune tinkering take place. However, its hard to criticize those guys who like to fool around with their gear, and often I do find some of their findings to be quite enlightening. Its all good, and its all fun.
Yes, I HATE tinkering. It's one of the main reasons why I no longer shoot a recurve.
I would tinker with my last bow until I got a perfect bareshaft tune from 40 yards.
You need to have limb tip pads, string silencers, brush buttons, and need to bareshaft around those things.
If one of those things fail they effect your tune and have to start over.
Drove me nuts.
Right now I just bareshaft tune for 15 yards and call it a day from there whereas I used to bareshaft tune from 40 yards and I shoot my bow with no attachments or string silencers.
Keeping it simple is what archery is all about.
Tinkering is a learning process. Book knowledge can only take you so far.
I'll tinker with the gear for a while. Then I'll tinker with my shooting, trying different anchor points, shooting positions, instinctive vs gap, etc. Then I'll pick up my thumb ring & shoot with that for a while. Then I'll just go for plain, old fashioned accuracy. Then I'll notice a fluke in my gear and I'm back to tinkering with that. I've enjoyed building some pretty shoddy board bows -- just more tinkering. It's all part of the fun. Stop tinkering with something and you've effectively stopped learning. But, hey, every student needs a break sometimes.
The desire to be a better and more accurate shooter keeps me tinkering. Why limit yourself?
Half the fun is in the journey.
Me, I'm old school.....if it ain't broke.....
But my best shooting/hunting buddy is always "tinkering" with something. Buys, sells or trades 3-4 custom bows per year. Tests arrow spine, length, point and insert weight and FOC. Strings material, brace height, nock point, silencer material and position. I could go on, but you all understand.
I understand his thinking because he is a retired Engineer!
I have no problem with the guys who love changing this that and the other like Medicare Bhtr's buddy if that's what you like have at it. I know I like to tinker out in the shop and make this or fix that.
My point was; I love to shoot my bows, I know a setup that will work well for what I need, so what the heck am I changing point weight and switching arrows and then adjusting to those setups when I could be out practicing and having more fun :knothead:
Whatever makes the past time of archery enjoyable for you is what you should do.
When I started shooting stickbows 20 years ago no one at least that I came across, bare shafted or paper tuned. I didn't hear about that until the last ten years or so. If you know what to look for, what to listen for and what the feel of the shot should be, you know if your arrow is tuned to the bow.
In my early years myself and my cronies only shot wood. Wood is very forgiving. When I started shooting carbon and aluminum, I had more difficulty. It seemed I had to have a different set of arrows for each bow as they were more temperamental.
If you enjoy the process of tinkering go for it. Why not. Enjoy the process whatever that is for you.
I love to tinker,I learn things.I learn things from other folks that tinker and post. Having said that my go to bow once tuned,stays together with the arrows,and is left alone, with just an occasional brace height check. I agree with Bisch I dread changing the string,for fear of disturbing something. Ken
QuoteOriginally posted by Bisch:
I am not, and never have been much of a tinkerer! I find a setup that works, and that's what I stick with. I hate even changing out strings!
Bisch
X2! Been using the same setups since the beginning, although, I do change my strings yearly :D
QuoteOriginally posted by The Nocking Point:
What Bisch said
Terry
X2
I do like to tinker but i also got into trad archery to get back to "simpler" things. When we look at the tinkering that goes along with traditional archery as compared to the multitude of technological tinkering that is common place with the compound crowd, fiddling with arrow materials, spine weight and balance is still pretty "simple".
I am in the process of trying wood shafts for the first time since childhood. Again, this is in an effort to get closer to simpler or more traditional things.There is a fair amount of tinkering i am having to do to find the right set up for my bows.
I am all for keeping this fantastic addiction of ours Simple. I guess my definition of simplicity has more to do with an avoidance of technology than avoiding the fiddle factor.
Thanks Leinsg91 for providing us with some for for thought this morning.
Merry christmas everybody!
I tune my arrows once, then go with them. Whether they're woodies or carbon, I find the setup that tunes best and stay with it. That said, if I want to purchase different arrows for 3-d season, with lighter weight tips than my hunting arrows, then I will tinker and tune until I find the right setup for that arrow. Then, I'll stay with it.
QuoteOriginally posted by The Nocking Point:
What Bisch said
Terry
Same here.
I'm with Tajue17. Tinkering is enjoyable to me but when I find that perfect combo I stop for the most part. I don't calculate FOC or anything else. My only goal is at least 10 gpp and the best arrow flight I can get out of a particular bow.
A big benefit to tinkering is it gives you an opinion on different setups with various bows. This is a social media sharing site and without tinkering an opinion is uneducated.
Hunting bow...all set, no tinkering. 3-D bow...all set, no tinkering. Indoor bow....tinkering all the time. Rest, glove or tab, different tabs, 3 different arrows, point weight. Driving me crazy.
I love to tinker , it's who I am
Once i find my setup im done. My woodies come out around 600 grains and thats what i shoot. I feel no need to figure out a lighter setup for 3D shoots looking to get a faster shooting arrow.
I see guys' tinkering all the time and they are never happy. They will change something and then read or hear about something else and back they go to tinkering. Make's me laugh because most of the time they have a great setup and then go mess it up by changing...but to each their own!
I dont know about anyone else that tinkers, but when I find something that works good, and want to continue on tinkering, I dont just scrap the good working set ups. I keep track of everything, so its not really lost or messed up. Its just another good option to add to the list of possibilities. Nothing is lost.
Done tinkering.
(http://i.imgur.com/khMrqeC.jpg)
To me tinkering is like picking fly **** out of black pepper. Your pepper is going to taste like **** or you will be throwing good pepper away. A bow, good matched arrows, a sharp broad head and your good to go. :archer2:
Gotta go with Bisch and the rest. Not big on fixin' what's not broken.
Deno
QuoteOriginally posted by flyflinger:
I do like to tinker but i also got into trad archery to get back to "simpler" things. When we look at the tinkering that goes along with traditional archery as compared to the multitude of technological tinkering that is common place with the compound crowd, fiddling with arrow materials, spine weight and balance is still pretty "simple".
I am in the process of trying wood shafts for the first time since childhood. Again, this is in an effort to get closer to simpler or more traditional things.There is a fair amount of tinkering i am having to do to find the right set up for my bows.
I am all for keeping this fantastic addiction of ours Simple. I guess my definition of simplicity has more to do with an avoidance of technology than avoiding the fiddle factor.
Thanks Leinsg91 for providing us with some for for thought this morning.
Merry christmas everybody!
X2!
My tinkering consists of getting a new bow, setting nock point( after all these years I just tie it on where I know it works) pretty much the same on all my bows, adjusting brace height for noise, going out and shooting. Most of my bows are almost identical poundage so arrows work for all of them. Then I go hunting. It's all pretty complicated I know, but it works for me :goldtooth:
What Roy from PA said, x 2 !
I don't mind tinkering until I find what works. Then I shoot it until I'm confident. I subscribe to the k.i.s.s. principle. Keep It Simple Stupid.
Jeremy
I've posted it before, but it's been a while.
When I took over as webmaster for the Michigan Longbow Association I also got access to the game awards archives. I created a database of every piece of data in the archive. What I can tell you is this: if I absolutely had to kill something with a longbow I'd do it with a cedar shaft, a 125 grain two blade/double bevel head, a 45-55 pound RD longbow about 64" long on a overcast/cool day in October.
I know some guys who've been hunting that setup for several decades, and those are the same guys who throw the curve for the rest of us. Is it OK to "not tinker"? Absolutely. Looking through these comments, there are a bunch of guys happy with their setup and very successful. Good for them! I'll probably end up with a similar setup someday.
To your point about your not having an interest in hunting Cape Buffalo, well that is exactly what I want to do. The reason I do tinker is because I feel that I really need to give it 100% in the pursuit of an animal like that. I owe it to the animal, as well as the people who will be going into the bush with me after the shot.
There is nothing wrong with being happy with your setup, and there is nothing wrong with pushing for a little bit more.
Thom
I am guilty of obsessive tinkering. I used to be anyway. I tinkered with just about everything I got into: traditional bowhunting, pistols, rifles, fishing gear, treestands, you name it. I wanted everything I had to be the best it could be or I would get rid if it and move on to something that I thought would be better. I tinkered with my shooting style going from instinctive to hold and aim. None of that tinkering business made me hunt better or shoot better, it just made me a fool eager to part with his money. I'll relate an example of just how bad I was: I was into bass fishing really bad one year. I went and got $1K rods, $1K reels, the whole Luckycraft line of lures, big tackle boxes filled with hundreds os dollars worth of tackle. I went fishing with the olld man who brought along a 50 year old broken tip bamboo fly rod and some hand tied flies. After 3 hours fishing I was still skunked and he was pulling in bass about every other cast. No, I was not better with my gear but I didn't know it yet. I stopped shooting my bow and hunting after the 2009 season because I had no fun with it anymore. I was deep in the throes of target panic. I was up in a tree or sitting in wait for deer and missing my 4 year old daughter. But I still tinkered with my gear and my form. I didn't think I would ever like this traditional bowhunting anymore because I had no desire to pull the string or get into the woods. I got OE Berry to build me a Vixen a couple years ago. I didn't even have a dozen arrows to my name or even a quiver. But I did have 3 arrows with some whitetail single bevels on them and 6 aluminum arrows with 145 grain field points. I also had a Neet tube quiver. I got outside all winter long and practiced shooting instinctively. I shot all though the Spring and Summer also. Last season I decided to get a license and deer tag. I found some private property to hunt on and headed out. My first three hunts consisted of chasing out trespassing Amish. The following week I went out on a Monday morning to hunt the property all day. I saw mostly does and a young forkhorn buck, nothing I wanted to shoot. I decided around 1:00pm to go set up in the middle of an overgrown pasture that had a dip in it and some spruce trees growing close together. As I got about 80 yards in to the pasture, the little forkhorn came over a rise and walked towards me. He got to within 12 yards of me quartering to me and turned away giving me a quartering away shot. Before I could make up my mind the bow swung up and an arrow went through the last couple ribs and out the front shoulder. I have never felt such a rush of excitement or elation from hunting before, never until that moment. I have replayed that shot over and over in my head many times since. It took less than 2 seconds to get the shot off. I didn't even consciously pick a spot rather I visualized the path of the arrow through his body. I was done tinkering that day. One bow, a couple dozen wood arrows, a back quiver, some Tin Cloth for early season, some heavy wool for later in the season, and a Hammock seat for the hunting spot. I for one have made it my mission to keep things simple from now on.