I started off this traditional kick with some carbon arrows. My hunting arrows are all carbons. They're readily available from the local shops who mostly sell to compound shooters. They're very modular and allow for a lot of customization of the components (weight, diameter, spine, inserts, nocks, etc.). They can take a beating -- far more than the aluminums I shot as a kid.
But after making a board bow, it seemed a disgrace to shoot carbons from it. And needing a lighter spine than my recurves, paying less than half the cost was a better selling point to the spouse, who rolls her eyes at every "needed" purchase. So I've been shooting woodies a lot the past couple months and have been enjoying them.
Now that I've shot both, I'm torn. Part of me likes the woodies. The smell of real wood, the ability to adapt what you have rather than being forced to buy yet one more specific item, the sound of wood launching off the shelf -- it has an appeal. And, surprisingly to me, I shoot them just as well as carbons.
But carbons are darned tough. I like being able to switch from field points, blunts and broadheads in the field. And now that I've got my setup tuned in, there isn't much by way of extra cost other than the occasional pack of shafts and spare parts.
So what do you shoot and why? Reasons need not sound logical.
QuoteOriginally posted by YosemiteSam:
[QUOTE Sorry -- Double Post
[/QB][/QUOTE]
I shoot woodies just because I like them better. Can't say that they are superior to modern materials in any way except that I just like them.
To me that is what your choice of bow, clothes, arrows, etc all boils down to.
For me it all depends on the particular bow I'm shooting. My first bow has shot Douglas Fir from the beginning, some of my D/R bows like carbon, and my ASL's like aluminum. It boils down to what tunes best to the bow. Aside from serious stumping, I haven't had durability issues and all have produced clean kills.
I'm the same as you and had always preferred carbon over wood until I got a Selfbow. I've made several batches of wood arrows and just find them noticably inconsistent in accuracy compared to my carbons. I'm sure much of this has to do with my poor arrow making and straightening skills though.
For me my self bows will always shoot wood and my laminated bows will always shoot carbons or aluminums.
Nothing flies better than a cane arrow with wild turkey feathers..
I prefer wood all the way. It is what was common at the location where I started out, but later, when I got a Hill bow, it just seemed traditional to shoot wood. Besides, I find it performs well, looks good, and is more durable than many might think. Good wood arrows shoot tighter groups than most any of us can hold (bad wood arrows are atrocious).
I have also shot a lot of aluminum and find it a very good arrow material. The only reason I prefer wood is strictly traditional preference.
I have only tried carbon once or twice, and for some reason, it was just a pain to deal with. I just don't like it even though, as far as physical attributes go, is probably the best material under discussion.
Carbon or aluminum with carbon internal shaft.
Straightness and tunable.
I've been shooting carbon for a bunch of years now. I like the fact that I can travel to a hunt, put on field points to practice and then when its time to hunt screw on the broadheads. I can switch broadheads easily. Right now I havea few bows that shoot heritage 150's all with different point weights. Easy to accomplish with carbon.
I have and do shoot all three.....wood, aluminum and carbon....I always seem to drift back to my Easton 2018's......have taken much game with them...kind of like a good old friend......
QuoteOriginally posted by Mint:
I've been shooting carbon for a bunch of years now. I like the fact that I can travel to a hunt, put on field points to practice and then when its time to hunt screw on the broadheads. I can switch broadheads easily. Right now I havea few bows that shoot heritage 150's all with different point weights. Easy to accomplish with carbon.
Yep, thats why I like carbons, such a versatile shaft
I shoot all three as well. This coming Javelin season I have made a few cedars that fly perfect with my Snuffers. But for "shooting" I lean towards carbons. They bounce off our rocks without harm. I also like aluminums and still have 5-6 dozen shafts to make into arrows. I like them for 3D shoots.
Wood, fiberglass, aluminum, carbon...I have shot them all and like them all.
However, good wood arrows take time, effort, patience, skill, but awesome when done right.
Fiberglass are great, but tough to find these days.
Carbon arrows are durable, but can be contrary to tune.
Aluminum is tough, has good weight, easy to tune, and probably my favorite at this time.
I dont think there is any disputing woods are inferior for straightness, tolerances, weight, convenience, and strength when compared to carbon or even aluminums. The question I had to ask myself was, do they have to be so exact, in order to effectively and consistently take game? Obviously not. I cant get past the charisma and silent flight of the wood.
I shoot Hill Style longbows. Shooting a carbon or aluminum arrow out of that style of bow is kind of like fishing with a night crawler on the end of a bamboo fly rod - It might be very effective, but something just doesn't seem right about it :laughing:
Once I went to good Douglas Fir arrows there was no going back. Inferior! I don't think so and never have to touch them they give up nothing and I will never miss carbon arrows.
I've been shooting them for years and nothing else is needed for my longbows.
Tracy
I have all three : aluminum, carbon, and wood. I shoot all three but somehow, I just shoot wood better. I shoot spines from 50-55 to 55-60 cedars, Douglas fir, and spruce out of 50-55lb straight limb longbows without issue. Yes, wood arrows are more maintenance and not readily able to change between different heads as the others. I like how they shoot out of my longbows. I also like the feel and the smell of them.
I am currently shootin carbon/aluminum (FMJ's). Before this, I shot carbon. I shoot carbon because I know how to tune them. I hate woods because I cannot figure out how to tune them!
I have some woods that I shoot at 3D shoots. They let me shoot another round that I would not have been able to otherwise. But, I only hunt with my FMJ's! (exception to the rule is the few times I hunt with my selfbow)
Bisch
You don't have to limit yourself to one or the other. I shoot both. Most of my woodies are Sweetland forgewoods which I collected over the years. Most are about the diameter of my skinny carbons, but physically heavier. They're tougher than most other wood shafts, but still not as tough as carbon.
I shot wood exclusively for about 50 years, but have been shooting carbons more the past half-dozen years or so, primarily because they're tougher than wood and I can load the front end for high FOC.
I hunt with both. The last elk I killed with a front loaded Easton Axis shaft. The last buck with a Woodsman tipped Forgewood. It's all good.
I have shot wood, fiberglass, aluminum and carbon. Fiberglass was heavy but not very durable. Aluminum is very consistent, easy to tune and easy to work with at home. Lighter weight aluminum arrows bend way too easy. Carbon is tuff, straight and a pain in the butt to tune (for me anyway). You also have to have a special saw to cut them or make many trips to the archery shop. They are normally lighter than I like. Wood is not as straight, not as consistent and takes a lot of time to craft a good arrow. But nothing shoots like wood. Nothing else feels like wood. No other arrow material gives me the satisfaction of crafting arrows like wood. If you get your shafting from good arrowsmiths (like Surewood and Wapiti), wood arrows are more consistent than you think. I can "adjust" the weight of my finished arrow by asking for shafts "light for spine" or "heavy for spine". Wood arrows made from Douglas fir are nearly as durable as carbon. Maybe more so! Wood is easier to tune. At least I think so. What better way to spend the winter than making wood arrows?
I shoot all types mentioned above except the bamboo, I mostly shoot carbons because I can fit more arrows into the same small spot :biglaugh:
I shoot wood arrows because they are what I want to shoot. Wood arrows speak archery to me; they have a life and character that carbon and aluminum will never have. I make pretty good arrows and sort my shafts carefully and don't feel that I give up any accuracy. They are at least as good as I am.
In the section next to my friends place, a kid shot a buck high in the rump with a mechanical head on a carbon. It has been suffering horribly for over a month. When looking at it with a spotting scope we could see what is left of the carbon arrow. The deer has been gnawing on it. It looked like it had an infection in its mouth and was oozing from the wound. Some muzzle loader busted into the field where it was laying with his vehicle, trespassing, while waiting on the game warden. It looked very similar to a deer that had a mechanical head on a carbon foul up that was taken by a gun hunter a month or so after the hit. The deer was a mess, it had carbon stuck in his mouth, the wound was very infected and inflamed. Not fit for consumption, I would not even want an eagle or coyote to have to fight those carbon fibers like the deer suffered with. One could certainly say that it was the shooter and mechanical broadhead to blame, but the carbon arrow was the long term torture.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bisch:
I hate woods because I cannot figure out how to tune them!
Bisch
Bisch, I should be in San Antonio next Thanksgiving. I'll come up and show you how to tune them. It is amazingly easy.
I have shot wood, fiberglas, aluminum, and carbon like others here.
For my longbows, I pretty much stick to wood. As others have said, longbows and wood arrows just naturally go together.
My recurves have generally been set up for aluminum or carbon, though I've set up wood arrows for those at times too. Currently I have my recurves set up and shooting carbon. I like the small diameters and I still can get very good arrow weight. They make a super hunting shaft.
Overall, though, there is no arrow as beautiful to me as a finely crafted wood shaft. I've shot wood for nearly 50 years and built them for myself for over 40. I especially love them for stump shooting, though I've used a lot of aluminums for that as well. Nothing like the smell of a broken cedar shaft on a stump shoot! And they make a great hunting shaft as well.
I started with cedar in the 80's and shot them till '91. Then killed a few animals with Aluminum but went right back to cedar. I have been migrating over to Doug Fir. It's been a slow transition but think when it's all said and done I will stay with them. To each his own but I would bet there is nothing quieter out of a bow than wood. The modern day stuff is not for me.
I have been shooting wood arrows for about 35 years and don't care to try anything else. They have always done what I needed them to do. They speak Traditional to me and grace those beautiful wooden bows. I love making them. I don't doubt that carbons are great arrows...but why replace what works and shoots better than I ever probably will?! Surewood shafts have been as straight and tough...no need for anything else unless I make 'em myself again in the future.
Dan
Spine, weigh and bunch your wood shafts for consistency. I use the metal round shaft of a screwdriver for straightening. Sight down the wood shaft and rub the high side. With a little practice and patience they will come out very straight. Get yourself a good taper grinder for consistent nock and point placement.
Lots of guy's out there make some very consistent and good looking woodies so talk around a bit for answers.
I have shot all three in the past and still shoot some carbons, but most often shoot woodies. Love the smell of broken cedar with a rush of memories!
I was looking into the douglas fir shafts myself. I saw that they suggested having them taper it for you because douglas fir doesnt like to be tapered with blade tools like trutaper. Does anyone find any truth to this?
I shoot wood. I do have aluminums but rarely ever get them out. Wood is a joy to shoot, a pleasure to make. I know some guys don't have the time or rather don't want to commit to the time to make a good set of wood arrows, but for me that's one of the great pleasures of traditional archery. I enjoy the process. I don't feel I'm giving up anything in accuracy either as my woods shoot right there with the carbons my friends shoot.
What Shadowhnter said X2...
QuoteOriginally posted by Fletcher:
QuoteOriginally posted by Bisch:
I hate woods because I cannot figure out how to tune them!
Bisch
Bisch, I should be in San Antonio next Thanksgiving. I'll come up and show you how to tune them. It is amazingly easy. [/b]
Let me know when you are down here. I am from SA and have family there. It might just turn into a meet.
Just be warned, you would not be the first to try to edumacate my little pea brain about wood arrows. No one has been successful to date!
Bisch
I have both and shoot both carbon and wood. I prefer wood mainly I guess because the weight is good as they come- I don't have to add anything to it once I get the right head on it.
I like the way Snag's arrows look and feel as well. Nope, I haven't built any myself.
I do limit my distance to under twenty yards, and at that range if I miss my target,so far it hasnt been the arrows fault.
I have broken some wood arrows, but I have broken carbons as well.
For the most part, I just like wood arrows I guess.
Hey Bisch...go to "Arrows by Kelly"(www.arrowskp.com) and look at his tuning tips. Easy and it works!
I am a wood arrow shooter. Wouldn't shoot anything else. They are simple and beautiful. Yes you break one every now and then. I also enjoy building them so a broken one just gives me something to do that I enjoy anyway.
I love taking the time to build a beautiful set of woodies.i think carbon and aluminum are more practical and easier to work with. But after I dip crest fletch and build a dozen woodies I'm way more satisfied.
I use bamboo and hill cane for my arrows. I shoot selfbows 95% of the time. It just isn't right to shoot a carbon arrow out of a primitive bow. Plus I like taking something from nature and turning it into a functional weapon. The bamboo and cane shafts are very tough. I shoot mine into steel drums, trees, and whatever else I feel like. I've only had one break on me so far. That one hit rocks in a creek bed.
I am using Sitka spruce arrows that Tater got me turned onto. I have some carbons that I originally planned on using, but as soon as I started using the woodies I knew that was what I wanted to keep using. They shoot beautifully from my bow and look great. Plus, I really enjoy making them as well. They really aren't that much more work to make.
For me I shoot mainly wood arrows. There are several reason, I can build them myself, I can customize them easy, They seem to shoot quietest. To me wood arrows have more density (mass) then other material (except fiberglass). I find Cedar is my go too wood, but love the hardwood shafts for that added mass weight. I have shot aluminum and carbon and know what arrows, my bow's take just in case I ever need them.
Bisch, if you can easily tune carbon, you should have no problem adapting to wood. Just don't overthink it. After all, if I can do it anybody can. I would offer to help you, but Georgia is just a bit far to go, unless I can ever get to some Texas shoots.
RA, it can be done, but fir will splinter and chip if the blades aren't VERY sharp. The pencil sharpener types also tend to be not real precise. I do all my tapers on a disk sander with a V groove guide. The sander works better and is much more accurate.
Yes Douglas fir can be touchy with a taper tool with blades. I taper them like fletcher does.
I like any arrow I can shoot, but my favorite are woodies, I like to hunt and shoot a bow and arrows I made myself, although to me carbon work optimal on my lower draw weight bows, my real interest is with a well made wood arrow,IMHO nothing feels better.
Tried woods when I first started traditional. But found them then..and still do not able to take a lot of abuse. They look great. In fact there isn't an arrow out there that can beat them in beauty or archery grassroots traditional charm. But I'll snap em' by pulling them out of a 3D target. They just didn't work for me. Carbons...did those also. Everyone who has shot them will tell you they are tuff. And they are. I hated the crazy tuning rituals I had to go thru to get a properly spined heavy enough arrow for my bows. And even then for a host of different reasons they would not fly good out of another bow with the same draw weight/draw length. So then I tried Aluminum. Cheap,tuff,easily tuned,heavy. And for me a 2018 will fly great from any bow I've owned in the past 6 years that had a draw weight of 48#'s to 55#'s but just changing the weight of my field points. Heck I even shoot them 2-fletched now because of how stable they shoot/fly.
rat'
QuoteOriginally posted by Roy from Pa:
Nothing flies better than a cane arrow with wild turkey feathers..
+1
They're cheap and easy to make too.
I have Surewood taper mine.... no problems so far.
Wood, thank you. Cut 'em with my pocket knife (no power saw needed), quiet, easy to tune, no moving parts.
Yes, they can beak stumping... but I've mushroomed a bunch of carbons, popped nocks on a lot more, and found them touchy (for me) to tune. Don't like to handle a splintered one.
Haven't tried aluminum, but they'd likely be my second choice.
Don't want a carbon or aluminum bow, same with arrows.
For me.
Nothing but WOOD,shot aluminun for a couple of years in the early 80s.Never owned a carbon arrow for my personal use even though we sell a lot of them.Wood seems quieter to me than a hollow shaft and it just seems right for me.
Terry
Don't see much of a point in using wooden arrows.
They are more expensive than carbon arrows if you buy them and are not as straight, not as consistent, and not nearly as durable as carbon.
You get the most bang for your buck with carbons and more FOC.
If you take some GT Heavy Hunter's or foot your carbon arrows they are literally indestructible.
John,
But you see for a lot of us that's exactly the point. Carbon arrows are lifeless, soulless.
Woods arrows have a life of their own when they are created. It takes some patience and skill to make a good set of wood arrows. It is a process of creation vs assembly.
Therein lies the joy of wood. That plus the thrill of watching them fly to the mark.
I shoot, and only will shoot, wood or bamboo.
A carbon or aluminum arrow may be straighter and more accurate but if I hit my target with a wood arrow, how much more accurate does my arrow have to be?
A carbon or aluminum arrow will always be nothing more than a utilitarian arrow. But a wood arrow, I can make a wood arrow beautiful.
How many times do you see other archers at a 3D shoot exclaiming on the beauty of someone's carbon arrows? I see it all the time with wood arrows.
How many times do you see someone praising the workmanship on an aluminum arrow? I see that frequently with a bamboo arrow.
Guy
QuoteOriginally posted by dnovo:
John,
But you see for a lot of us that's exactly the point. Carbon arrows are lifeless, soulless.
Woods arrows have a life of their own when they are created. It takes some patience and skill to make a good set of wood arrows. It is a process of creation vs assembly.
Therein lies the joy of wood. That plus the thrill of watching them fly to the mark.
To each their own but technically wooden arrows are dead too. :p .
All that I care about in an arrow is durability, straightness, and spine consistency.
I demand as much accuracy as I can maintain and that means arrows that are consistent from arrow to arrow and can handle abuse.
I do not have the money to spend on high quality wooden arrows and do not have the time to cull through them and baby them.
I see wooden arrows as a luxury arrow. They are not superior to carbon or aluminum arrows in any way besides being more expensive.
Even Howard Hill used alloy arrows on some of his hunts and Byron uses carbon arrows and those two are the best traditional archers bar none.
I've seen some really really nice looking carbon arrows as well with good cresting jobs or the traditional ones with the wood grain finish such as the CE Heritage arrows or the Easton Trads.
With the traditional carbons everyone that I know thinks that they are wood due to the paint job put on them at the factory and they even feel similar to wood.
With the amount of shooting I do I'd probably blow through a dozen wooden arrows once a month.
Also I could care less about whether someone thinks my arrows are beautiful or not (kinda silly but like I said I've seen some really nice carbon arrows) I only care about their utility.
I guess you could call me a utilitarian as I don't care about beauty in my bows or else I'd go shoot the prettiest recurve I could find.
Howard Hill had to resort to using an alloy arrow I believe because he could not split an arrow using a wooden arrow for the original Robin Hood film because of straightness issues.
When it comes to being as accurate as possible and having the toughest cheapest arrows possible I'll stick to carbons.
You also gain more FOC if you shoot a mid ranged or light carbon, and if I want to make them really pretty I'd just crest them and give them a custom paint job.
I'd agree that it's definitely possible to build a set of wooden arrows that are very spine consistent and straight but it would require a lot of time, they would be expensive, and with my kind of shooting they would not last long.
The arrows can be as beautiful as they want to be but if you are missing the target or they are not shooting well they are useless and belong in a display case.
So John, ya saying you don't shoot well? LOL :)
I think it depends on what you shoot and how you use your arrows. If i were only shooting a target then about any arrow would be good assuming it was tuned well.
When I am having fun with my arrows, shooting freely at stumps or rabbits then I want a strong no fuss arrow like carbon.
I like wood arrows too! i shoot them often.
I want to learn to make cane arrows, Natures carbon in a way, That sounds great to me!
But if I was going camping for a week and wanted to stump shoot, hunt rabbits, and chase deer all at once, I would probably take carbon arrows, and a few different tips.
IMO the worst thing about carbon is they require a special saw.
Carbons cut very nicely with a dremel tool with a thin cut off wheel on it.
for me carbons are more durable and closer in spine and straightness so that's my choice
My very favorite arrow of all times i doug fir . I'e shot them for along time since 93 . I have loads of cedars arrows and shafts but I get better flight from my douglas fir arrows out of any bow I shoot. I do like carbons and have 3 different kinds and I use them for 3ds and hog hunting, I hunt at night and use lighted nocks.
I have all three at the house and shoot them all at times. Cedar are my favorite to build and shoot. They just take more time to build and at times I get too busy and end up running low on arrows.
For that reason if I had to pick one material and stick with it, I would probably choose aluminum. Contrary to what some are saying here, aluminum are still straighter and more consistent weight wise than most reasonably priced carbon. I get the straightness/durability thing if you are stumping/abusing arrows but personally have never had much trouble bending aluminum shafts with the type of shooting I do.
I still have carbon and will probably experiment more with them in the future. I just haven't had as much luck getting them to shoot as well easily for me as with wood and aluminum.
I made up some wood arrows (port orford) back around 2001. Prior to that I had built carbon and aluminum. Just cut and fletched them, sometimes a wrap.
I made a heck of a mess trying to dip those cedar shafts. I have a cresting machine that was given to me, I liked putting crest rings on the shafts. I only used he pencil sharpener type nock taper tools and didn't realize they weren't up to snuff.
Bottom line, except for fletching I wasn't much good at it (producing quality wood arrows). Then I'd shoot those arrows in 3D targets and they came out of the target looking "burned" on the front 5-8". Destroyed my work to get them looking good. I'm sure it had something to do with how I finish coated them.
I have a new dozen of PO arrows from a fellow in Medford, OR who makes his shafts from the tree itself. They are beauties but I haven't even put points on them. Also have some nice arrows that have the hardwood splice up front...brain fart right now and can't think of the term for that to save my life. Wait...hardwood footed shafts! I've never shot them.
This thread has caused me to rethink woodies a bit. I was drawn back to recurves for nostalgic reasons. I didn't need increased challenge, I wasn't unhappy with compounds, and I didn't/don't have shooting issues that a compound exaggerates. Just wanted to return to my roots. Well my roots are Bear Cedar arrows with Razorheads. So I reckon I haven't returned all the way.
Now days I shoot the most hi-tech arrow on the market, deep six FMJs by Easton. Love them. Easy as pie to tune, excellent penetration, and plenty durable.
Wood all the way!!! I enjoy build them, plus they are way better looking. I also never had a problem tuning them to any of my bows. As far as durability goes it doesn't matter to me nor do i care. I have put some through hell before they broke. Besides if you hit your target they will last.
QuoteOriginally posted by Yewbender:
Besides if you hit your target they will last.
That's what I keep saying!
If you don't want your arrows to break then don't miss.
Guy
Bwahaha soon true yewbender
I'm not going to lie those woodies are really nice looking, a true functional piece of art.
I'm going to have to start making my own.
Carbon arrows are a byproduct of the whole lighter = faster = better compound movement.
The more that I shoot archery the simpler and more traditional I seem to go and the more enjoyable it becomes.
I started out with a recurve, then went with a longbow, and now I'm learning to make self bows.
Very addicting.
I can make someone a wood arrow that is close to their actual draw, without the need to do that 'start long you make the spine yourself' game that needs to be done with carbon arrows. Shorter arrows are easier to pick and tune. Wood arrows fit that. Wood arrows can be easier to handle by the nock, those long carbons with all of the weight on one end are clumsy things when handling by the nock. Wood arrows can be drawn more quietly out of a back quiver. Those extra long carbons are like having fishing rods sticking out of your back quiver. Wood arrows make me feel like a natural part of nature, carbon arrows are bogus.
Nice topic here but no hating on my part here...
I love my carbon arrows, they seem to tune with less effort and footed are amazingly tough and durable. However I will admit to loving wood way more... why? I am drawn to being able to make my own gear and hunting things. I have bought dozens of shurewood shafts and made arrows but when I learned I could go cut Red Osier shoots across the road from my house, dry them for two years, straighten them with heat, scrape and sand them to get a spine, use feathers from a goose or wild turkey I killed, carve and sand in a self nock... well I was amazed and intrigued. For me you can not buy what you can make... It's more than the end result. It's the process and learning, how it feels as you hold it in your hands and looked down at it. I'm still learning but its been fun along the way.
(http://i.imgur.com/aRWAZi4.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/VfCe1DP.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xwbz9j5.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/UJ9TAU4.jpg)
I have, and shoot, all three. But hands-down, I prefer the woodies. It seems right, is the only way I can put it. All but one of my trad bows are vintage Bears, and shooting carbon or aluminum out of them, while probably a better choice, seems out of step. I've been advised to go with modern carbon for all the advantages available, but then...if I wanted advantages, I have some of those "other bows" in the closet. Why not just go Full Monte, right?
No, I shoot old Bear bows because I WANT to, and likewise with my woodies. It just feels right.
Sockrsblur, those arrows are BEAUTIFUL!