Many years ago, I trained myself to run barefoot and in those odd-looking toe-shoes (vibram five fingers). To date, I have found nothing else that is as comfortable for running and hiking. I ran a trail 50k in them back in 2011 and hiked 50 miles over 2.5 days with a pack last summer. Hands-down, I'm a fan. They're goofy as ever but they work for me.
I also hunt in them during the August archery season and love how quiet they are for stalking. But they're pretty cold for spring turkey and the October rifle season -- especially when in wet weather or when there are multiple stream crossings. I also hunt near the coast where scorpions and rattlers lie in your path without moving. That thin nylon construction is great for running but isn't much protection against punctures.
So I'm looking for a rather minimalist moccasin-type shoe for hunting. A high-top boot is good for keeping debris out but the closest thing I've found is one by Tactical Research. The soles are still fairly thick since they're made to mil-specs. I'm looking for a thin, flat lug-sole, leather, high-top boot. It does not need to be insulated -- a wool sock is plenty out here. Any ideas?
As far as moccasins go, take a look at "Sodhoppers" out of Oregon. He offers a very soft, flexible, rubberized option for the soles.
They're kind of pricey, but excellent quality, and custom crafted.
Footskins in Spring Grove, MN offers a pretty wide variety of hand made mocs with different sole configurations. Not sure if you'll find what trips your trigger, but they are worth a look.
http://www.footwearbyfootskins.com/
I have a pair of the knee high model and they are excellent. Mine just have a flat leather sole. Amazing how quiet one can be in the woods when you feel everything under your foot!
arrowmocs bush boot
My impression is you already get this, but I'll re-enforce it just in case: if you want a functional moc, be absolutely sure there's some sort of sole to provide traction/friction on damp or wet... anything!
Or it's a quick and frustrating lesson in landing quickly on your... hindquarters. Sometimes with more consequence than just embarrassment.
Ask me how I know if you feel the need. Been there done it more 'n once.
http://www.russellmoccasin.com/thula-thula-short-ph-5/ expensive but very good.
Get something like that glued to the bottom of your leather sole.
http://www.algeos.com/acatalog/stick_on_sole_sheeting.html
Needs to be glued on using professional glue made for that purpose. Works great on my arrow mocs. Have those for over 15 years (2 sole seam repairs). A friend in Germany who is an orthopaedic shoe maker did mine.
You will want the double leather soles, especially if you hunt in the mountains and in rocky terrain/desert (cactus needles). The double sole and 1/4" leather will also protect you very well from potential snake bites. After a short break in period they will be buttery soft and conform exactly to your feet.
Everything without the potential to stop a snake bite in the wild at the most likely location is imho city slicker stupid.
Not worth the potential medical bills and bodily damage of a pacific rattle snake bite at all.
Don't know how bad the scorpions are, but these California snakes carry a bad mix of nerve and tissue destroying poison. They are often small and the smaller snakes are often the most aggressive.
Check out carl dyer moccasins. Used these for years when shooting black powder. Line with wool socks for warmth
Not exactly moccasins, but the LL Bean boots are great for stalking, time tested, and reasonably priced.
I made my own moccasins by putting on a pair of socks and then had my wife spray rubber coating( that you can get in a spray can) on it. After it was dried I put on some shoe goo on the bottom and stepped in some sand to give it some traction.
I second the Russell.
QuoteOriginally posted by slowbowjoe:
My impression is you already get this, but I'll re-enforce it just in case: if you want a functional moc, be absolutely sure there's some sort of sole to provide traction/friction on damp or wet... anything!
Or it's a quick and frustrating lesson in landing quickly on your... hindquarters. Sometimes with more consequence than just embarrassment.
Ask me how I know if you feel the need. Been there done it more 'n once.
Yep. I'm well aware of that feature of leather as well. Appreciate the warning just the same.
QuoteOriginally posted by ChiefStingingArrow:
I made my own moccasins by putting on a pair of socks and then had my wife spray rubber coating( that you can get in a spray can) on it. After it was dried I put on some shoe goo on the bottom and stepped in some sand to give it some traction.
Sounds fine for light duty. But I'm thinking I could thrash those before I even got myself to camp. How far have you gotten in those?
I guess these things don't come cheap. Looks like $3-500 is par for the course. I suppose it's like a good custom bow in that it is pricey. Anything cheap sacrifices quality or fit. Good stuff -- thanks & keep them coming if you know of others.
I have Carl Dyers and really like them except for the slick bottom discussed above. I am going to try adding tree gum rubber to the bottom a-la the old derelict Dr. Ashby.
I also got myself a pair of LL Beans for Christmas as Centaur talks about above if he can sneak up on turkeys like he does they got to be good.
After posting I went to the sodhoppers site mentioned above and they have a product that would be easier to apply then the tree gum rubber above I may just give it a try. Goop is what it is called, and can be applied to the bottom of any moccasin.
QuoteOriginally posted by tecum-tha:
You will want the double leather soles, especially if you hunt in the mountains and in rocky terrain/desert (cactus needles).
...
Everything without the potential to stop a snake bite in the wild at the most likely location is imho city slicker stupid.
I'll have to check out the double soles. My main shoe has 8 mm combined thickenss (outsole and insole). When I hit something sharp, it keeps me from bleeding but not from swearing. I'd say that's about perfect.
I feel that it is exactly my city slicker-ness that has me thinking about thicker boots. After all, Ishi was barefoot year-round in the woods as well as in Berkeley. If I had his woodsmanship, I wouldn't need all this darned gear.
We always called them "Bean Boots", too. DON'T BUY THEM!! That's what they sell to yuppies walking on pavement, made with harder rubber and cheaper leather. Hunters want the L.L.Bean Maine Hunting Shoe.
QuoteOriginally posted by Owlgrowler:
We always called them "Bean Boots", too. DON'T BUY THEM!! That's what they sell to yuppies walking on pavement, made with harder rubber and cheaper leather. Hunters want the L.L.Bean Maine Hunting Shoe.
The concept seems about right. But that fat heel on the back is a bit much for me. I'd fall over on the sidewalk, let alone in the woods.
I may have to make my own. What I'm looking for is far more simple than most of what is sold commercially. Has anybody made a set of moccasins for deep woods hunting?
The arrowmocs bush boot is imho the best and most economical moccasin around.
http://www.arrowmoc.com/7.html
It also wears like iron. You will have a hard time getting this quality of leather to start with. Yes, moccasins can be made far cheaper, but not as durable.
If you really want to make your own, then get this:
https://www.amazon.com/Craft-Manual-American-Indian-Footwear/dp/1884693008
It has very good instructions, but remember that most moccasins are soft sole models and are intended to be made from deerskin or elk skin. They will wear out really fast and you may need to combine several design until you find what you like. But this will take a good amount of work.
For example, an Assiniboine hard soled moccasin combined with an apache style boot is probably the best of both worlds, but will require a good amount of work to realize and finally fit you perfect. Then just glue the rubber sole to the bottom for non slip.
What is deep woods hunting?
By the way, the native American got bit by snakes a good bunch of times,too and most serious bites were probably deadly. But in a more primitive time, death was a far more common reality in daily life than in modern times. There was a reason to have 6-10 kids, because only 2-4 probably made it into adulthood to be able to care for you when you were old.
Even though, only 10 or so people die of snake bites each year, there are many more snake bites from poisonous snakes each year. When you see the photos of some of those on the web and you realize how nasty high the medical bills are, it is dirt cheap to get protection.
Also, some people still have some problems years after a healed bite. And especially in California:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crotalus_scutulatus
Check out some Converse hi top Chuck Taylor Allstars in black or use sharpies to make them look like you want, they've been around forever, obviously not for real cold weather.
If your worried about snakes use some gaiters.
QuoteOriginally posted by tecum-tha:
The arrowmocs bush boot is imho the best and most economical moccasin around.
http://www.arrowmoc.com/7.html
It also wears like iron. You will have a hard time getting this quality of leather to start with. Yes, moccasins can be made far cheaper, but not as durable.
If you really want to make your own, then get this:
https://www.amazon.com/Craft-Manual-American-Indian-Footwear/dp/1884693008
It has very good instructions, but remember that most moccasins are soft sole models and are intended to be made from deerskin or elk skin. They will wear out really fast and you may need to combine several design until you find what you like. But this will take a good amount of work.
For example, an Assiniboine hard soled moccasin combined with an apache style boot is probably the best of both worlds, but will require a good amount of work to realize and finally fit you perfect. Then just glue the rubber sole to the bottom for non slip.
What is deep woods hunting?
By the way, the native American got bit by snakes a good bunch of times,too and most serious bites were probably deadly. But in a more primitive time, death was a far more common reality in daily life than in modern times. There was a reason to have 6-10 kids, because only 2-4 probably made it into adulthood to be able to care for you when you were old.
Even though, only 10 or so people die of snake bites each year, there are many more snake bites from poisonous snakes each year. When you see the photos of some of those on the web and you realize how nasty high the medical bills are, it is dirt cheap to get protection.
Also, some people still have some problems years after a healed bite. And especially in California:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crotalus_scutulatus
Thank you! I'll check these out, for sure.
As for "deep woods hunting," I'm mostly thinking about how most of the moccasins are more like house slippers in that they are usually low-top in design and with leather soles -- more fashion than function or with the expectation of low function. When I see flaps at the instep, I think about sticks getting caught & stabbing my feet. When I see low, loose tops, I think sand, mud and rocks in my shoes. And when I see leather soles, I think about boggy meadows and wet feet on a cold morning. And when I see thick, inflexible soles, I think about heavy footfalls and crunching forest floor debris.
I'll check out that book, for sure. I don't need something to last the rest of my lifetime. If it lasts a season or two and is reasonably-priced for materials, I'm happy. I also have a hard time forking over much at all for something sight-unseen -- shoes most of all. Some people can strap on something reasonably well fit and be fine. I've always struggled with footwear so I'm skeptical of everything until I've tried it out for a while. There's nothing like blistered feet to ruin a multi-day trip in the back country. I had seen the Apache-style boots with the slightly thicker toes and soles. The idea sounds about right.
double post.
QuoteOriginally posted by RGKulas:
Ive made several pairs from elk or bison tanned leather but the neck/back on large deer hides works well to. Very easy to make. You can sew them and turn inside out so you dont see the stitching or you can stitch from the outside and leave the stitching shown. These are a simple folded version. I used to sew them by hand but now I use a machine as its much faster.
(http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b452/staysharpguide/moccains_zpscqvtwzxs.jpg)
I like the Merrell Jungle Moc's. The soles may be thicker than you like but they do come in several sole types.
A pair of Carl Dyers and a set of Turtle Skin gaiters
QuoteOriginally posted by YosemiteSam:
QuoteOriginally posted by Owlgrowler:
We always called them "Bean Boots", too. DON'T BUY THEM!! That's what they sell to yuppies walking on pavement, made with harder rubber and cheaper leather. Hunters want the L.L.Bean Maine Hunting Shoe.
The concept seems about right. But that fat heel on the back is a bit much for me. I'd fall over on the sidewalk, let alone in the woods. [/b]
I disagree. I've worn nothing on a daily basis but "barefoot shoes" for 8 years. The Bean Maine Hunting Shoe is awesome. The only problem is that it doesn't handle slopes well.
homebru
If something only lasts a season it is usually a piece of garbage and will fail at the worst moment possible.
Even though the arrowmocs are not period correct, they are the best blend of western and native American shoemaking technology.
If you have special feet you can also send in a foot tracing.
In order to craft something remotely as good as an arrowmoc bushboot, I think you will run through as much leather equaling the cost of a bushboot.
Then, if you wear everything else then a full enclosed and heavily treated leatherboot or full leather with Goretex liner hiking boot, you will always get wet feet walking through very wet grass. A requirement no primitive footwear is able to fulfill.
In the black powder community the arrowmocs are cheaper and much more durable than Dyers or other suppliers. RUSSEL is a blend of moccasins with real boots but also very pricey.
Poppens moccasins are my preference. They are extremely light weight and are solidly constructed. They have no web site, but I will see them next week at rendezvous. I will post info about contacting them when I get back. These are very good footwear.
This might be your answer
http://www.skinners.cc/
http://gearnova.com/skinner-athletic-sock-sneakers/
QuoteOriginally posted by RGKulas:
This might be your answer
http://www.skinners.cc/
http://gearnova.com/skinner-athletic-sock-sneakers/
Those look fine for running. But I already have something to fit that activity.
Started construction on my new mocs last week. Bought some sole material and half a shoulder of leather. I'll either make something good or waste some money figuring out that I'd be better off risking a wildcard from an online vendor.
We will look forward to see your end result.
QuoteOriginally posted by tecum-tha:
We will look forward to see your end result.
If I can ever figure out how to post photos on here. Do I need to create an account at a third party site?
Yes, you need an account on a third party site. I use Imgur. I'd like to see what you end up making.
(http://i.imgur.com/iLT9iRO.jpg)
I love mocs, and have since I was a kid. That being said I'd never dream of hunting in them. I value my neck too much for that.
I enjoy making them, and the best leather for that is moose hide. I made these awhile back.
QuoteOriginally posted by BAK:
(http://i.imgur.com/iLT9iRO.jpg)
I love mocs, and have since I was a kid. That being said I'd never dream of hunting in them. I value my neck too much for that.
I enjoy making them, and the best leather for that is moose hide. I made these awhile back.
Nicely done. That will probably be nicer than what I do. I understand your hesitation. It took me 6 months of training to transition from traditional running shoes to minimalist shoes. I thought I'd never be able to run anything longer than 13 miles when I did regular shoes but have done so many 20+ milers now that I've lost count.
This is probably not going to be what you want, but take a look at Clark Desert Boots. I bought a pair for my last Africa hunt. The crepe sole is what you want - not the lugged rubber sole.
My PH complimented me on my footwear. Said most Americans coming over buy the ultra-heavy lugged boots and they are too noisy. Mine were quieter than his boots.
I understand they used to have a nice, quality lining. Not any longer. Mine are completely unlined - one thickness of leather all over. Took me about 2 weeks to get them broken in so I didn't have to wear a band aid on the top of my small toe on the left foot. That unlined leather is a bit rough. Now, they're as comfortable as my bedroom slippers and that crepe sole is pretty non-slip on the ice.
They won't be much protection against snake bites, though.
Steiger mukluks?
Clark Desert Boots & Mukluks -- both good concepts. If I ultimately fail at making my own, I'd probably want to get a pair of one of these types and have it resoled with a flat piece of 6mm vibram soling material. Having 1/2" or more of sole thickness seriously reduces ground feel.
The sodhopper is probably the ideal shoe for what I'm looking for. It's just hard to fork over that kind of cash on a wildcard outcome. At least if I fail at making my own, I learn some fun leatherworking skills in the process ;)
The crepe soles on my Desert Boots are so soft I can feel the smallest twig under my feet - better than my house shoes. If you do get some, wear them a bit before deciding whether to re-sole.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bladepeek:
The crepe soles on my Desert Boots are so soft I can feel the smallest twig under my feet - better than my house shoes. If you do get some, wear them a bit before deciding whether to re-sole.
It's the heel on those that turned me off. I want a dead-flat, natural footbed. Forgive me for being so darned picky. But after learning what works for me on 20+ mile hikes and runs, I'm pretty stubbornly committed to those features.