Is exactly what I'd be saying if I could find any. :( Has anyone else noticed this year that there isn't as much sign or no sign at all. I really talking about rubs/scrapes. It seems this year in NE Ohio that there just aren't any deer rubbing. I have only seen 2 small rubs so far and probably walked 15 miles in the woods.
Anybody know what's going on or having the same problem??
I just spent about 3 hours this morning scouting a new patch of public land. I know the deer are there, and there are plenty of acorns on the ground. But very little sign. I only found one trail even worth sitting by, but it was right on the edge of the property. I'd rather avoid the hassle of trailing a deer onto private property. Not a single rub or scrape anywhere.
Finally seeing some rubs here in NY and a couple scrapes in Jersey this past weekend. Did notice some smaller bucks chasing does though.
My son had a 6 pt nose to the ground dogging 2 does Friday morning, his shot was a tad low and all he ended up with was hair....
My buddy Bamboo and I will be in CT all week and we feel the timing is just about right. Last year we hit it perfect and came home with a few nice whitetails.
seeing a lot of rubs but no scrapes here in NY. no acorns or beech nuts at all which is where i usally set up. have saw MANY deer, all does and 1 button buck. heavy wind and rain killed this weekend pretty much.
Have a scrape & rubs in my back yard...
Yesterday Larry [recurve50lbs] and myself hunted state land and found a "honey hole" so to speak..There's a 3" diameter tree rubbed up pretty good.On the edge of a grassy field there were scraps under at least four trees. The biggest had a broken licking branch over it.The rain stopped around two yesterday afternoon we figured the buck or bucks had to come in and freshen them . No deer showed . It has to be the full moon and the swirling winds that must have kept the deer away.
scraping everywhere here in the Hoosier State
hmmm this is very confusing
TJ,
Down here in Central Ohio I am seeing rubs everywhere, a few scrapes and then a few really big rubs. Don't know why the deer up your way aren't doing the same.
I have seen scrapes earlier this year compared to past seasons.
I am seeing a few rubs but no sign of rutting activity. I believe both you and I in NY will start to see things pick up by the end of the week and by the 4th. of Nov. it will be starting up pretty good. It had been warm this fall and the Full Moon hit us a tad early so pushed things back a bit as far as scrapes and rubs and such, but will start the actual breeding phase a bit earlier believe it or not, so look out the second and start of the third week of November. Shawn
TJ,
Don't worry. I'm about 15 miles from you. Trust me when I tell you the switch will get thrown around the 4th-6th of November. No sign early is a good thing. This year, when it's on, it'll be on hard and fast. Shawn pretty much nailed it. This whole month, especially the second and third weeks, are going to be hot.
One scrape and one rub in my tiny hunting area here in Indiana. See "Big ol Narly Horned Buck" for a pic of a big rub.
Despite searching high and low, I haven't seen the tiniest bit of whitetail sign; just the usual pig sign and a wallow made by a wandering buffalo. Okay, I'll stop being a silly bugger...
Good hunting, and I hope you guys connect with the deer. Cheers!
Thanks guys! I thought I was loosing my mind. I'll be out later this week looking hard
I was out yesterday and had a large buck come by after some does. The rut is starting!
MD
Had 4 bucks come off a ridge right by my stand last Sunday evening. That's pretty good sign I guess. I'm seeing the same thing here too. I have yet to find a fresh rub. I've got a pretty good idea where there are some rubs on the property, but I don't want to go into that area just yet. Still, I am a little surprised that I have not seen any rubs in some other areas.
The rubs and fresh scrapes just recently started showing up everywhere here. The does have been pestered by the younger bucks for over 2 weeks though. I'm taking most of next week off to hunt all day.
I'm just now seeing sign, but this looks pretty good to me... :-p
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff187/GingivitisKahn/rub3_w_shavings_20071027.jpg)
Looks good to me to! Hopefully we see plenty of that down at the deer camp
I am going to take known biology; mix it with my experience in the field ( over 40 years) and some total unknowns. I am not sure if it will make a bit of sense: but it might lead us to an answer.
First off; are you seeing last years rubs? If your not seeing ANY rubs - then your probably not in an area that the deer rub. Find an area with OLD rubs; and look for new ones; and then you might be onto something.
But assuming that you are seeing old rubs; and not new rubs... well then it gets down to the WHY. Frist off why do bucks rub? I have heard that they do it to get the velvet off; I am not sure about that - although I have found some velvet at or in rubs. Others say rubs are for practice; building up neck muscles. Others say its to mark and area as the bucks territory.
Well - I believe deer rub trees to do several things; but upmost is to make the tree 'sweat' sap. When they return; they get their newly velvet shed and pure white antlers covered in sap; and then they rub their antlers on the ground ( or on burned trees )etc: to darken them.
They also will rub scent on the rubs; and that might just be territorial.
I believe that later- when the rut is on big time; the bucks get chasing does; and they are known to travel long distances. If they come accross other rubs; then they know they are in a 'safe' area frequented by other bucks.
I know if I find a rub; and get down on one knee; I can see another rub from the rub; and I can follow ridge contours and trails to get from feeding areas to bedding areas.
If you pardon the pun here; but I will go out on a limb and wonder if higher temps; or lower rain amounts can decrease the ability of certain trees to produce enough sap for the deer to bother with them. Another words; a certain type of tree or location of past rubs might not get the attention that other trees in other areas get- because of the ability of the tree to produce sap. Yep a long shot with only one eye open; but... it might explain why certain areas that have had rubs: don't this year.
Bucks lose their velvet when their hormone control is tickled; and here with elk and deer I see does coming into what I call a 'false heat'. That seems to induce the older bucks and bulls; to shed their velvet. And it takes another 28 days for the spikes and forkies to shed their velvet; as I don't think they are mature enough to react chemically to the first doe or cow heat.
Everything should be out of velvet now; and the deer should be darkening their antlers. Like I say that takes sap and dirt or charcoal or some other source of the darkening; and that might include bark from a particular tree.
Out here its pine trees and river or creek bottom saplings - like willows etc. Even big bucks here will use a pencil sized sapling in wet ground to rub. We had a wet spring but really dry long summer. Pine saplings here that normally up high are used for rubbing were untouched this year.
Well - I think you need to expand your rub search to new areas; and I think you will find the rubs. I hope somebody reads what I wrote here and can tear out the bad; toss it out and tear out the good: and put it in a form we can understand.
I remember when people called rubs 'scrapes'; and had no idea what a scrape was. I also remember in 1964 - hearing deer make noises and being laughed at: for thinking deer made ANY noise beyond 'buck snorts'- which were alarm snorts from bucks and does. Now we know better about a lot of things. The rubs we are just beginning to understand- in my opinion.
good luck with your scouting and hunting !!!
Thanks for the input Brian! That's some interesting reading. To answer the questions yes I see tons of old rubs all over the place. I have gone to four diffrent spots in the last week and a half that I know have tons of old rubs. But nothing really new. I'll be out a lot on thrusday and hopefully that switch will flip and we'll see some stuff. Thanks for the replies!
Good post Brian. That's the kind of thinking that leads to better understanding of deer behavior. I don't neccessarily agree or disagree with your observations regarding sap content, but your thoughts on rub lines and travelling bucks are outstanding.
When you think about it, rub lines lead to feeding areas and bedding areas. Those are the places to find does. The buck that made the rub line is spending time in the area so he's going to be taking advantage of the terrain and wind in his travels. Leaving scent on the rub assures other deer the sign is fresh and was actually made by a deer. What better way to ensure breeding success than to tell every buck who comes by where the does are and the best way to get to them.