OK folks, I've decided I'm going to get a blood tracking dog and try training. I'm tired of having white knuckle situations and spending hours tracking...even on good hits!
What breed should I be looking for? Any books I should look at? I'm looking for ideally a small breed
Check out the United Blood Tracker site. Lots of good advice and a great book recommendation.
I'm no longer tracking except for myself, but if I were looking for another tracking dog I'd get another dachshund. Small, manageable breed that are real tigers on a track. I'll pay you to take mine - he uses up too much of my bed :)
Tracking Dogs for wounded Deer by John Jeanneney. This is the best I've found
I have been thinking of the same move, thanks for posting it.
I cut my teeth as a kid hunting with dogs since that's what my dad and his friends did most in my youth. This was of course conventional hunting with dogs, but these dogs trailed wounded and killed game equally well.
The mix was generally blueticks, black and tans, beagles and walkers. But you can train a poodle to track wounded game. Its just that some breeds require more effort while the conventional hound choices generally train you. After a while you begin to realize they knew what they were doing long before you got involved. :)
I've seen retrievers, pointers and plain old mutt's used to successfully track wounded game though. The specific breed doesn't matter so much. You just want to start them early on real animals, not trailing dummy's and store bought scent concoctions.
During the dogs first 2-3 years you should be spending more time letting it track game than hunting yourself. Tell everyone you know that hunts that you have a dog you want to train for blood trailing and have them call you for every kill you can get to. Even if they found the animal already, guide your dog along the trail with you and give him some attention and/or a little treat when you get to the downed animal. Give the dog a piece of hide or hoof to chew on too.
It won't take many of these episodes and the dog will know exactly what you want him to do. Your problem then will be getting out of the house or camp without him/her to go hunting. In order to shut it up your significant other will either sedate the dog or offer to kill it for you while your gone...
Michael, one thing I did when I got my new pup was I contacted the local game warden and let him know I was training a pup to track. He gave me permission to pick up a road kill if I found a fresh one. It took about a month before I found one. All I had to do was contact him when I did. That gave me access to fresh hide, blood, and feet for training purposes. That got me throught the off season till deer season.
Deerfly!! You dog,We have not seen you in years,are you still making bows?
Deerfly,
I loved reading your post, especially the line where you say "after a while you begin to realize they knew what they were doing long before you got involved." A well crafted statement that was as much a pleasure to read as it stands true!
Michael, I'll be reading this thread with great interest. Our Jack Russell, Timber, is now 15 years old. I give him a hard time about not being able to track a Milk-Bone through the laundry room. However, when I met my wife he was already her 7 year old spoiled prince... He's a great friend, though was never enlisted as a tracker as my Father's dog was always the capable General of such occasions. Having said that, I have seen the Jack Russell track with great skill through the South Texas brush. Deerfly is right that you can "train a poodle". However, the Jack Russell is worth strong consideration if you're looking for a resilient breed of friend and ally that can ride on the center console to your hunting grounds.
Best Regards, Chase
In my experience the breed is very important. If your intention is to have a highly specialized deer recovery dog then some breeds are far superior. WHD (wire hair dachshund) and bavarian mountain hound are two that excel as leashed blood trackers. I'm sure there are others. The desire to follow blood is so strong in them that you can not break them off until you pick them up. Where other breeds will lose interest and lack the little traits the lead to a recovered deer. Beware of the the dog that "will track anything". A good deer recovery dog will only ever track one thing.
With a dog from the specialized breeders and a little training as a pup their abilities are amazing.
I would say just as important as the breed is a understanding how to handle them on the line. Patience and teamwork are needed. You have to know that scent can blow off to the side of a blood trail...etc. I never had enough patience or time to get the most out of my dog.
Chances are you have other duties in life and like to hunt a lot, so your dog time will be limited. You can easily have a good tracker with a WHD but the breeds are so good that non hunting dog handlers can take them to another level. Don't worry about getting to that world class level. Just find your own deer! (http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/IMG_0545_zps6e61c8be.jpg)
My dog is now 14, very slow and out of shape, a bit off from lymes disease, and has a urinary infection. But she would track to exhaustion if I would let her and out find most dogs. She has never reached her full potential as a blood tracker because we had a low deer herd for most of her her life. But we sure did find a few that were just amazing.
When not in tracking mode she is a great pet and overly attached to humans. When she is tracking or has recovered is a different animal. She will guard "her deer" like a pit bull. Someone not used to her should not approach if she is guard a deer or pc of a deer.
Get John Jeneaney's book. My dog is from his bloodlines.
Guard duty after recovery. She had the shakes real bad. Ever since lymes disease she gets like that. (http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/Mobile%20Uploads/D8BB912F-5171-4828-8342-29B3608A01D5_zps4vmksd0j.jpg)
http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/Mobile%20Uploads/BB831967-E732-4729-80D5-4DE0E7E12B50_zpsccxf1d9p.jpg
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/IMG_0753_zps9cf142d9.jpg)
Michael - we've been seriously tracking with our standard sized smooth teckel (dachshund of European ie hunting, bloodlines) for 7 years. I've posted a lot.... and have answered your questions from my perspective a few times... search Oskar (our dog's name) on powwow or my posts on here and you'll get some info to read.
The main thing....get the dog that is right for YOU....just like a bow, one size does NOT fit all. You'll track with him 3 months a year and live with him for 12....get a breed YOU and YOUR family can live with.
Don't get bamboozled by the salesmanship.... the REAL experience is in Europe, blood tracking with dogs is nothing new or magic, there is a thousand year history of tracking over there, the average hunter there knows as much about it as most of the "experts" in the USA. Get a dog from proven bloodlines, with a good background of health history in the pedigree, with good prey drive and you are in business. I would disagree that there are specialized breeds beyond a couple from Europe that are extremely difficult to import into the US (for instance proven Bavarian bloodhounds), the European type dogs used in the US - generally teckels, whether smooth, wirehaired, or long haired, or German wirehaired pointers (Drahthaars) are generalists, not specialists.... but they are smart enough to know what you want and what to do at a given time.
Ted is exactly right that the key is learning your dog - the reality is the dog knows how to do this instinctually...he trains YOU - not the other way around. The teamwork is key - you can't just be a dope on a rope behind the dog.
John's book is a good primer, and a must have for someone getting started, but you also need to be sure you find a breeder with enough experience and "dogmanship" to support you in the training... the breeder should be the expert on their dogs and should be more than willing to spend the time with you that you need.
Be careful, too... blood tracking is a fad right now and I've heard of pet breeders selling "tracking dogs", if the breeder doesn't track that would be a red flag to me.
We love it, my wife is the primary handler, and Oskar has found right at 50 deer so far. He lives to hunt and track, and we've made some great friends in this hobby.... also have avoided some sleepless nights with marginal hits.
It is a bunch of work, and takes dedication, but can add a whole new dimension to your hunting. I owe it to my wife who is the dog person here..she developed Oskar to his current level. She handled him in JGHV VsWP (blood track testing sanctioned and judged by the German breed club - this is how these dogs are registered) testing a few years back (he was 3 or 4 yrs old) and achieved Prize 1 performance in both the 20 and 40 hour tests. As of then he was the only teckel in the United States to test to this level in sanctioned JGHV testing. There is dog potential in the States, just be sure you find the breed that will make YOU happy long term.
R
I'm also very interested in what Michael asked.
Does anyone have experience with Chesapeake retrievers?
I bought a wire hair from John and Jolanta Jeanneney. It took a while to get on the list but Ximo is the real deal. He is always right and I have been wrong every time I doubted him. He is going through his adolescence but it really has not affected him. He has drive and amazing to watch him work. As previously said, you got to learn your dog. Ximo found his first deer at about 12 weeks old if remember correctly. There are some other blood hound breeds out there that do extremely well. It is all about finding the right breeder.
I've got an almost two year old beagle/lab mix that was given to me when she was only a baby. Her name is Bella and her features and characteristics are all beagle. I taught her just like deerfly wrote in his post. She's only been on real deer blood trails, some where I knew where it was and most where I didn't. I told family and friends to call me since she was a pup so I could put her on any trail no matter how far or even if they knew the deer was down. It's worked out great for me and Bella and she absolutely loves it! It's amazing to watch her track without any blood or other liquid to go on if it peters out and know she's singled out that deer and is tracking by its foot scent left on the ground!! She seems to be born for it to since she's yet to take me on a false run or trail. Where I hunt it's truly like a jungle in most places and the odds are against you finding even a perfectly hit deer unless you see it go down. She definitely tips the recovery odds back in my favor: ) I've enjoyed reading all of your comments and posts of your dogs. Thanks
Make sure it is legal in your state to use dogs to track game. It is Illegal in Minnesota.
I found out after I used my beagle to find a deer I gut shot.
I did not get caught but I wanted to make sure it was legal. the way it states the law in the regulations is no dog shall be used in taking game. I asked a game warden if it was legal to use them to track already dead deer and he said No! That is considered taking game.
So my beagle has a great talent that I can no longer use.
Michael, you should get a hold of Jerry Russell on here, too. I know that he has several vidoes on the subject on his YouTube channel, and I have no doubt that he would be willing to share his wisdom with you. I also know that he loves to share stories of his current dog "Bear" and he has every right to be proud of him, because he has had some amazing successful tracks that were tough, to say the least.
My vote is the wirehair Dachshund. Great trackers and awesome family pets.
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f205/BasinHunter/2016-11/9480E2E4-5850-41DD-85AB-E6263EB9EF6F.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/BasinHunter/media/2016-11/9480E2E4-5850-41DD-85AB-E6263EB9EF6F.jpg.html)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f205/BasinHunter/B63067A7-B5CD-4961-B633-E60139FA98F7_1.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/BasinHunter/media/B63067A7-B5CD-4961-B633-E60139FA98F7_1.jpg.html)
We got a WHD from Jeanneney's this year. He is 6 months old now and is a lot of fun to work with. There are several breeds that will get the job done. You need to get the one that fits you. Get Johns book. They just came out with an updated version a couple months ago. It has a lot of good info in it especially about breed selection. When you do finally get a pup remember to be patient and have fun with the dog. They become part of the family.
Thank about the land you will be tracking in. Here in Texas we've got lots of Catus and a short legged dog will have problems. Most of the people here use Leacy or Border Collies with some Curs. I want a dog big enough to bay a deer, look up Roy Hindes, ledegen in South Texas, his Blue dogs are big.
Ive got 3. 2 Drahthaars and a wirehaired daschund. To get a good dog its a lot of work. Our Daschund is only ten months old with lots of promise. Only had her on two real tracks so far.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ryan Rothhaar:
Michael - we've been seriously tracking with our standard sized smooth teckel (dachshund of European ie hunting, bloodlines) for 7 years. I've posted a lot.... and have answered your questions from my perspective a few times... search Oskar (our dog's name) on powwow or my posts on here and you'll get some info to read.
The main thing....get the dog that is right for YOU....just like a bow, one size does NOT fit all. You'll track with him 3 months a year and live with him for 12....get a breed YOU and YOUR family can live with.
Don't get bamboozled by the salesmanship.... the REAL experience is in Europe, blood tracking with dogs is nothing new or magic, there is a thousand year history of tracking over there, the average hunter there knows as much about it as most of the "experts" in the USA. Get a dog from proven bloodlines, with a good background of health history in the pedigree, with good prey drive and you are in business. I would disagree that there are specialized breeds beyond a couple from Europe that are extremely difficult to import into the US (for instance proven Bavarian bloodhounds), the European type dogs used in the US - generally teckels, whether smooth, wirehaired, or long haired, or German wirehaired pointers (Drahthaars) are generalists, not specialists.... but they are smart enough to know what you want and what to do at a given time.
Ted is exactly right that the key is learning your dog - the reality is the dog knows how to do this instinctually...he trains YOU - not the other way around. The teamwork is key - you can't just be a dope on a rope behind the dog.
John's book is a good primer, and a must have for someone getting started, but you also need to be sure you find a breeder with enough experience and "dogmanship" to support you in the training... the breeder should be the expert on their dogs and should be more than willing to spend the time with you that you need.
Be careful, too... blood tracking is a fad right now and I've heard of pet breeders selling "tracking dogs", if the breeder doesn't track that would be a red flag to me.
We love it, my wife is the primary handler, and Oskar has found right at 50 deer so far. He lives to hunt and track, and we've made some great friends in this hobby.... also have avoided some sleepless nights with marginal hits.
It is a bunch of work, and takes dedication, but can add a whole new dimension to your hunting. I owe it to my wife who is the dog person here..she developed Oskar to his current level. She handled him in DTK VsWP (blood track testing sanctioned and judged by the German breed club - this is how these dogs are registered) testing a few years back (he was 3 or 4 yrs old) and achieved Prize 1 performance in both the 20 and 40 hour tests. As of then he was the only teckel in the United States to test to this level in sanctioned DTK testing. There is dog potential in the States, just be sure you find the breed that will make YOU happy long term.
R
This is sound advice. Take it.
Get the book Tracking dogs for finding wounded deer 3rd addition-green cover. There is so much about blood dogs and their training that is counterintuitive. This book covers all aspects from choosing a puppy to training. Ryan said it best when he said that not all dogs fit every handler and situation.
The first consideration should be a dog that fits your family but right next to that is how will the dog be used.
Will he be run off lead (legal in OK) and do you want a cold nosed dog.
Off lead dogs that can bay and catch a wound deer will recover far more deer than one run on lead. Lacy dogs, cur dogs and others are just some to consider here. The draw back here is the danger associated with running of lead. Wounded deer and bears goring, traffic, alligators being just a few. I personally know handlers that have lost dogs to all of these in the last year. So, just because it's legal doesn't make it a good fit for everyone.
On lead dogs require situational consideration as well. The very first being how the dog will be used. If the dog is for personal use where most every track is hot (under 8 hours old) the selection of breed is less critical. I could teach a cat to track hot lines, lol. All I can offer for advice here is DO NOT get a big dog. I have run them all in 34 years of handling blood dogs and being dragged through heavy brush by a massive dog is NOT fun. A dog under 40 pounds is a good choice.
Now for cold nosed tracks, breeding is EVERYTHING. Working blood trails of 12 to 36+ hours is an art form. These are specialist breeds for the most part that are simply geared differently. Teckels, BMH and others. These animals are nothing short of amazing to watch in action.
A word about training... I have been at this game for over three decades and training a dog from a young age is critical. By training I mean so much more than teaching him to follow a hunk of skin dragged through the woods. Scent breaks over water, roads, long distance recall, snake aversion and about 50 other items are the skills that will keep a dog safe and allow him to reach his full potential.
If I had to give a list of the most important 10 items to be achieved with training to first 6 items would be identical- learn to read your dog. Knowing how your dog reacts when he is sure of the line, when he is struggling and when he is working through a problem is hyper critical. This cannot possibly be achieved by training solely with actual blood trails. Simulated blood trails that promote problem solving are the key to a fully trained tracker.
I have several videos on my YouTube channel keywords: Russell Outdoor Guides that might be helpful.
Again, get the aforementioned book and consider joining Unitedbloodtrackers.org
That group has some fantastic tracking folks that are always willing to help.
I guess you noticed I didn't really help with your question as to which breed to choose. So much goes into the choice. Choosing a wife is actually much easier. You only have to look at and live with a woman. Choosing a great tracking dog is much more complicated.
Tracking dogs are legal in Okla BUT MUST BE KEPT ON A LEASH.
Terry
"Jack Russell is worth strong consideration if you're looking for a resilient breed of friend and ally that can ride on the center console to your hunting grounds."
I second the above statment. As a falconer the Jack Russel was my go to dog, they are smater than most of their owners and can be trained to follow hand signels.
QuoteOriginally posted by The Nocking Point:
Tracking dogs are legal in Okla BUT MUST BE KEPT ON A LEASH.
Terry
Oklahoma has fairly restrictive and confusing tracking laws so look closely before tracking. For deer, you need special permission from a DNR ranger for EACH track. For hogs it is less restrictive depending on if it is deer season or not. The leash restriction for hog tracking also differs from deer depending on various seasons. Crazy.
There is a possibility this will all be simplified with a new law next year.
My son has a beagle that he trained for trailing and she found lots of deer . One that had been shot 4 days before and had gone 1/4 mile she went right to it. Another time she got off the leash at the start and took off the opposite direction the guy said the deer went at the shot, he says what kind of an idiot dog is that . When my son found her she was standing over the guys deer . What kind of an idiot doesn't know which direction the deer ran when he shot it !
Ken Taylor I have a lot of experience with chesapeakes but not as blood tailing or tracking but they would be my first choice for a dog that could do just about everything .
As a couple folks already stated you also need to think about what your tracking needs are. Here in the Midwest it is all 'on leash' and it should be in this part of the country - due to land ownership patterns etc (generally smaller acreage). Also philosophically I'm only interested in fatally hit deer, not baying live deer. The fist thing I tell a hunter when we take a call is that we are searching for a carcass not a deer... if the deer is not fatally hit, we won't catch up to him....sometimes this disappoints some "trophy hunter" types. The reality is no matter what kind of dog you have if he is on leash the handler is the limiting factor, not the dog, so you aren't catching up to a live one anyways unless the deer is in pretty bad shape.
Additionally, on my and my family's wounded deer, as well as a few experienced hunters I've tracked for, we don't have problems.... we know where the hit is, give the deer ample time etc etc, the dog has no problem.... it is when you start taking cold calls for hunters that you find how stupid or inexperienced people can be, and also when you need the power dog. By "power dog" I mean the combination of cold nose, prey drive, intelligence, and experience to track a deer days after the hit with significant track disruption/disturbance. The downside to a power dog is that you can spend way too much time on nonfatal hits.... early on we used to... every hunter that calls hit the deer "right in the chest".... then contacts you two days later after him and 6 buddies walked all over and messed up the trail. A power dog can still track this deer and we went on many a mile long track half the night for no reason before we wised up. Now we carefully screen calls. The first red flag is when the hunter says he hit the deer "right in the chest" - I tell them first off that "that isn't the case or we wouldn't be talking right now" - if they get offended then I refuse the call ;) .
The "two day old three mile recovery" makes for a good story in a book, but any experienced bowhunter knows that if you act appropriately after a hit that isn't the norm. Successful recoveries of non-pushed deer from fatal arrow wounds that aren't textbook hits generally involve a 300-400 yard track to a wound bed or several beds, then the deer gets up and travels 50-100 yards and dies. This characterizes 90%+ of the "hit him too far back" type recoveries we have.
These types of tracks are no-brainers for any decent dog.... and if you only track for yourself or guys you trust these will be the majority of "oops" hits you deal with. Were I or someone I trust to hit a deer in a very low percentage situation - say high in the back, or in the shoulder with minimum penetration - I'd do the track for a reasonable distance to assure it is a non-fatal hit, then call off. But I'd know going in that we were just doing our due diligence on a likely non-fatal situation.
In the normal "oops" type fatal hits on deer a power dog isn't necessary - kind of like commuting to work in a Ferrari. An SUV or a pickup truck might be a better choice for any variety of reasons.
Jerry said it perfectly above: "On lead dogs require situational consideration as well. The very first being how the dog will be used. If the dog is for personal use where most every track is hot (under 8 hours old) the selection of breed is less critical. I could teach a cat to track hot lines, lol. All I can offer for advice here is DO NOT get a big dog. I have run them all in 34 years of handling blood dogs and being dragged through heavy brush by a massive dog is NOT fun. A dog under 40 pounds is a good choice."
He has much more experience than I do - and this is spot on from what I've seen.
My wife and I are way over-dogged for 95% of the tracking we do. And we have had to learn how to deal with the unknowns on other peoples tracks so we know when to call it "nonfatal" and quit. I never got the dog originally because I was losing deer I hit myself - I got him because I wanted the "hit him too far back" type shots to be easier to find - and they are - for a decent dog these are 15-30 minute tracks as opposed to 4 hours to a day for a human blood tracker.
Again we love our dog, and would 100% take a teckel of the same blood lines again (and will) because we love the whole package, he is a perfect fit for US, but as I said before he wouldn't be for everyone - teckels, no matter the coat type, and no matter what some breeders say, have some idiosyncrasies.... like any dog breed... that make them a great fit for some folks, but not others.
One thing we need to continually work on (and work harder on than we do) is getting Oskar out and doing things... some teckels might be happy on the couch 10 months a year but our boy wants to HUNT! Additionally I feel a bit guilty that we have the dog ability to do so much more than we do and don't use him for it - our breeder hunts rabbits and 'coon and runs foxes in addition to tracking with her dogs. The owner of our dogs father (an Austrian hunter) uses his dog for all kinds of hunting, I've seen pictures with recovered roe deer, badgers taken from underground dens, foxes bolted from underground and shot, and ducks retrieved in small water hunting. Teckels were built for earth work ("dachshund" means "badger dog" in German) - these guys were not "born to track" they were "born to dig" and hunt underground, and virtually nobody, including my wife and I, use them for ground work in the USA. Such a versatile hunting breed has become "a blood trailing specialist" here, and we in the US have done the breed a bit of a disservice by that. On the other hand using these dogs for hunting of any kind helps preserve the original (hunting) bloodlines and keeps them from all going the way of the pet and show breeder.
Anyway, sorry for the digression.... all this again to say "Find the right dog for YOU"
:)
R
I read these posts every single time as I AM A DOG PERSON! I totally agree with Ryan's posts and others. ANY dog can be a "blood" hound on easy or not so easy trails. But if you want a true "blood" tracker listen to the wise ones above.
I've had a mutt who I trained who was great and saved me a lot of time finding deer I'd probably eventually find anyhow. BUT as she got older the drive wasn't there! She got poked with some sticks in the belly and now adays she'd rather just sit on my lap! In fact that's right where she is now! I still love her and thank god the time we've spent together.
But if you truly want a "blood" trailing dog you best follow the good wisdom above!
Ryan said:
"The main thing....get the dog that is right for YOU....just like a bow, one size does NOT fit all. You'll track with him 3 months a year and live with him for 12....get a breed YOU and YOUR family can live with."
I couldn't agree more. I have dogs that are trained tracking dogs, but for people. When they retire, the become game tracking dogs, and do a fantastic job.
More WHD pics?
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/IMG_0170_zpse05e418f.jpg)
Backpack riding
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/Mobile%20Uploads/BB831967-E732-4729-80D5-4DE0E7E12B50_zpsccxf1d9p.jpg)
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/360e7b44-148f-4922-ac3f-80661c78570e.jpg) (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/nucduke/media/360e7b44-148f-4922-ac3f-80661c78570e.jpg.html)
Vader
We get to spend some quality time hunting hogs in west Texas every winter. We are fortunate to host 60 to 80 bow hunters a season and probably get to track down more dead animals in a season than most people do in a lifetime. We have good results with Jagdterriers. We have followed some long tracks (miles) and have found live wounded hogs and shorter tracks with dead hogs or just remains from a coyote feed. If there is a dead hog we feel confident these dogs will find it.
Cute little guys ! Good noses too. Awesome.
CHuckC
Ted that's teamwork. She has trained you well. Lol
Mr. Fingers, can't you take your dog "hiking" after shooting a deer?
I have a 2 year old lab. Labs are big in my part of the world because of there ability to handle water and a possible snake bite better than say a small breed like a dachshund. They are excellent trackers as well as great family dogs. I echo several others the top book is "Tracking dogs for wounded deer" by John Jeanneney. If you do nothing else get a copy of this book. It has been out of print, but just came out with a new edition this fall. In his book John covers breeds really well. good luck!!
Ive been very interested in this thread as my next dog is going to be a blood dog. I really was looking at the bavarian mountain hound because they seem perfect for my needs and they are beautiful but Im not going to jump through all the hoops to get one. I just want a dog that will be super friendly with my family (small kids) and have a natural propensity for blood tracking. I was looking into the drahthaars a lot but they seem to have a reputation for agression and Ill not stand for that in a dog. My six year old walker dog growled at my one year old ONCE. She has not made that mistake since.
I also need a dog that would be happy to spend days at a time in hunting camp and share a sleeping bag with me. My walkers have all been great in all these respects but theyre too hot nosed and lack the patience for real blood training
Etter. Every Drahthaar ive met is amazing with kids. They are awesome family dogs. The only aggression i have ever seen is on cats foxes coons coyotes etc. I have Drahts and a wirehaired Dachshund. Depends what all you hunt which would be a better fit.
I had a Dachshund and a german shorthair. Both are good on bloodtrails. I will get a german shorthair again. Also cute with kids. But a decision for a dog is a personal question on space, time, prefering. I think a lot of dog breeds will do the job after a fundamental training.
Do you really need a dog to do your tracking? I don't doubt you get your fair share of deer. But you'll have way more time invested in dog care and training than you'd ever spend looking for deer.
FWIW, I know people get attached to breeds but if you're not a commercial operator of a game ranch or professional guide, I'd say forget about breeds. That dog is probably going to be 99% a pet so if you want a good pet, get a good pet. Inbred dogs are more difficult as pets, no matter what the breed. I've had way more success with my mutts than "purebreds" for hunting and as pets. So much depends on the individual animal that the breeding only becomes relevant in the most extreme cases (commercial). I've hunted birds with pups from feral dog packs and purebred pointers and springers. On the whole, I'd take the mutts any day of the week. A former coworker used to take his pitbull mutt duck hunting and even turkey hunting. It would retrieve and even sit quietly under a blanket as he called in turkeys (fall "bust 'em up" strategy). Personally, my last mutt was just as good finding birds as my springer and nothing short of amazing on rabbits (awesome to watch, exciting to hunt with her -- truly a team effort). She would range further so I'd miss a few. But she managed to chase more game my way over the years than that springer. She'd even chase deer my way on occasion. One time, she almost caught a fawn -- oh the excitement she felt on that one! She was a good dog and such a contrast to that dumb springer we paid money for. He was okay but nothing like you'd expect a good hunting dog to be and a royal pain as a pet.
My advice would be to head out to the nearest animal shelter and ask to look at pups from the poorest areas of country near you. There's something about the local "survival" breeds that can be very well adapted to your area. Then, at least, if you have a lousy hunting dog, you at least have a good pet. The odds of getting a good hunting dog are about the same with inbreds but if one doesn't work out, you're stuck with a lousy pet.
I hear ya Sam...But I have a lot more time invested in shooting practice than on actual game. Just like when you played ball as a kid...WAY more practice invested than actual games.....its part of the fun.
No telling the time I had invested in a duck dog I trained ...and I live in GA, not really a duck hwy. Anyhow, I will have those hunt retrieve memories till I die....along with the many great memories of the journey to get there. I could not invest that time now....but I didn't have kids then, but she was my little girl.
Et al......how about a dog, sorry if I missed it, that will track deer and hogs?
QuoteOriginally posted by 2nocks:
Mr. Fingers, can't you take your dog "hiking" after shooting a deer?
Yeah I was thinking I could bring him for a nice walk in the woods. He loves the woods. Lots of smells :goldtooth:
Terry, do you mean blood track both deer and hogs, or blood track deer and bay hogs?
If it is blood track both then any of 'em that are worth the dog food will blood track whatever you put 'em on. They aren't animal specific. A couple of the best blood trackers I've met train with beef blood because its easier to get and less "strong" as a German told me, than deer blood. I think he meant gets a dog less excited. Anyway, those dogs track deer and pig, not cows. :) . Drop me an email, Terry, if you want and I might be able to help out.
If you are talking about baying pigs then I don't know anything about that.
R
I agree with Ryan that most all dogs will track most any wounded animal they are put on. Bear Dog tracks deer and hogs and has trailed many a wounded bear for some of our Tradgang readers.
I would note that MANY of the good handlers that run OFF LEAD lead have broken their deer blood dogs from running bear and hogs because it will just end bad sooner or later for the dog.
Yes...blood only. Thanks guys.
Yes...blood only. Thanks guys.
John that Jagterrier is a beautiful dog. Wow.
agree with a few of the posts...that if a dedicated blood tracker is what you want...the wirehaired dachsund and the bavarian mountain hound are hard to beat.
the Jagdterrier is good but may be more than some want with the prey drive if ONLY blood trailing.
myself I like to shoot quail, dove, ducks, rabbits, squirrels in addition to big game so I have a drahthaar...great blood tracking too but also good for bird and small game hunting and like the Jagdterrier will take out vermin when encountered afield.
that being said if you already have a hunting breed or ability for a good well bred dog you can teach them to blood track....thing I have seen and experienced is they need to have good focus and concentration in addition to a good nose...while some others might do the job most the time...going with a purpose bred line is the way to go if you are serious about it. Just my two cents.
This is my second versatile breed from europe, not the AKC version....but mine is only 8 months old now so still getting experience in vast area...but has already tracked dead fur quite easily on a 100 and 200 yd drag...the live cotton tail tracks are a bit tougher as less scent but has the ability...I just need to stay consistent and bring it out in him. Here he is at 6 months after morning of romping through woods and doing a 100 yd dead duck track.
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL285/1460516/24722243/412750177.jpg)
Here in Texas the Lacey dogs seem to be the most popular for the ranchers I know.
They are working dogs and tend to make poor pets.
They are big enough to catch a wounded deer and hold it at bay in the brush (http://buffsblackwidow.com/images/IMG_0002.JPG)
(http://buffsblackwidow.com/images/IMG_0003.JPG)
Ron. That's a good looking pup. I have always liked the looks of them.
(http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q412/JohnBerger/15e3f49a-ba7c-41b3-88a4-dc27fe4bd4af_zpsvbquarvw.jpg) (http://s350.photobucket.com/user/JohnBerger/media/15e3f49a-ba7c-41b3-88a4-dc27fe4bd4af_zpsvbquarvw.jpg.html)
This is what happens when you let your hog run off to die. The dogs had a long track job the next morning. Coyotes left some hide and hooves.
Dave
Thanks for the comment on Vader. He was our stud dog for a few years. If you were a varmit he was the last thing you wanted to see closing in on you because you were going to die in a messy and painful manner. He was a beast on hogs and coon. He was a nice dog with people. I did not have room in the kennel and sold him, which I now regret. I kept 4 females out of him and have some puppies from his line due any day.
This is related in that the OP is from Oklahoma.
I copied it from another web site and thought that the hunters from OK. might want to see this...
"UBT brethren and sistern! We folks in Oklahoma could use your help.The Public Hearing part of the ODWC regs for 2017 has begun and the "exception" to the regulation forbidding the use of dogs in deer hunting to allow tracking is in those proposed regs. While we have been allowed to track this season by warden approval, this will put it in written form in the regulations. While many of you may see the exception as not perfect, it is a huge step forward past "illegal" and will give us an opportunity to establish some good will and work on changes later on.
If you would take a moment to respond, just an "in favor" will do, and you can write something additional if you choose. Obviously, any positive input from your experience/state would be great. You don't have to take the whole survey, you can just comment on this one change.
1) go to www.wildlifedepartment.com (http://www.wildlifedepartment.com)
2) click on "Proposed Hunting & Fishing Reg Changes"
3) click on "surveymonkey" link
4) click "next" to #10 and add your comment
5) click "next" to end of survey and fill in your name, etc"
My 2 cents worth is this:
For any dog that is going to have a job, from pointing quail to tracking blood, make sure you buy from a breeder who can prove that the parents are successful at that job. The wise, old saying is the best way to select a good pup is to select its parents -- and I have seen that proven many times.
Then, dedicate yourself to patient training. Show the dog what you want it to do and be patient. It will take the dog a year or two to really develop. A dog needs lots of experiences to become savvy.
Terry is right that you have to love the dog and the training, because there will be more hours in training than in the tracking/pointing/retrieving, or whatever the dog's job may be. It is like football -- a week of practice for a single game, and a ton of practices before the first game. You have to love the practice.
And, it never hurts a good working dog to be a family pet. Working dogs thrive on love and attention. And a much-loved dog is easier to train.
I had a beagle springer mix named shorty.
He would bring rabbits to the house when he was no bigger than one.
I never had to teach him a thing. I only put him on the trail on a leash and away we went.
I agree with buy a dog you can live with.. As long as it has a hot nose it will work.
I came across a yellow lab staffordshire mix and what a handsome dog he was. Coldest nose ever. Sat right next to a planted pheasant looking up at me wondering when we would continue out walk..lol
Good dog otherwise, gave him to an older couple at the time.
Lou
Joe knows... let me tell you I've hunted over his dogs ...nothing short of spectacular!!!
And again to Joe's comments....my pup came from a back to back field trial champion...."Rippin Blue Thunder"
QuoteOriginally posted by meathead:
Ron. That's a good looking pup. I have always liked the looks of them.
Thank you
Okla Wildlife Dept just sent me an email answer and said it is legal to use tracking dogs for wounded animals on private and public land in Okla.They must be on a leash and no one in the group can have a weapon on them.
Ron, good looking Draht!!! Mine is 7 months now. He doesn't quite have the beard yours has. I'm hoping it will fill in soon. He did another mock trail this morning. Only about 250 yrds . Less than an ounce of blood for the first half then only 1 drop every 25 yrds or so for the last half with tracking shoes. Aged 19 hrs. It's amazing what these dogs can do. His longest track was 2 weeks ago that was 560 yrds with 2 90* turns, 3 creek crossings, and a 60 yrd back trail. But it was only aged about 6 hours.