so how do you guys tune your arrows, explain your methods, would be intresting to hear how you get your broadheads to fly the same
I use the bare shaft method. If my bare shafts are grouping with my fletched shafts out to 20 yards then I shoot broad heads and see how they fly. Sometimes with a bigger head like a delta you need just a little bit of micro tuning with your nock point. I do this by shooting through paper. I know guys say it isn't needed and I used to think that to but I think it does help. Just remember to keep it simple. Your dealing with spine and nock height that's it. Don't overthink it. There is a great video by diamondback archery on YouTube describing the process. I've watched it over and over. Very helpful for tuning.also look up arrow tuning guide on eastons website that goes more into detail about micro tuning and grouping broad heads.
how can you do this if you shoot instinctive? wont your brain figure out if arrow is grouping left or right and adjust for the grouping to where you are looking?
I paper tune, just like with my compound (6' away from framed paper). Been doing it this way ever since I realized tuning was necessary which was around 1980, about 10 years AFTER I got into archery. I used to blame wind-plaining arrows on broad heads!
I proof the tuning a couple of ways:
1. Shooting at distance (20 yards) and observing arrow flight.
2. Shooting a broadhead tipped arrow followed by a couple of field points, they should group the same.
I adjust for nocking point first and the left and right. I'm careful about shaft selection to make sure I'm in the ball park. I adjust LR with insert and point weight tinkering. Rarely do I have to manipulate side plate and when I do, it is of very little use.
I tried bare shaft tuning a few times. For sure it works, but no better than my paper tuning and I can paper tune with fletching attached.
so all you need to be to paper tune is 6 feet away? i wss thinking of trying this when my new arrows come so i dont have to ruin the fletching on one to get a bare shaft, so a bullet hole with paper should be the correct spine and weight meaning your tuned? put a broadhead on your good to go? ever have any issues with broadhead flight doing this?
also do you paper tune with a cant? i trying to figure out how you can group the bareshaft together with fieldpoints shooting instinctive, i think the brain would take over impact point , id like some other options thanks to all
I make arrows for my friends and family. Only one of them wants aluminum arrows, all the rest want wood, so I keep a variety of spines on hand. When someone wants arrows for a particular bow and head weight I make a couple, we shoot them. Besides playing around a little with brace heights on recurves now and then, the one that flies right wins. People's draw lengths can grow if they are new shooters. Likewise people's draw lengths can be shorter in real use than the draw lengths that they measured, even though their form is on the whole fine. In those cases, changes in point weights have been enough to fix the problem. I give new shooter that do not have their form settled in and extra for their first set. More often than not when someone with less experience says the arrows shoot one way or the other, it is them and not the arrow if the spine is anywhere near close.
I've been reading all your post and here is the first thing that comes to my mind. I don't think your ready to fine tune yet, I think you need to spend more time getting use to shooting a bare bow. If your shooting is inconsistent, fine tuning will only cause you more grief. This is just my opinion and I hope you understand why I'm saying this. If your arrows are close in spine target shoot till u get confident. Just my two cents, please don't take it as insult. One more question,how long have you been regularly shooting a stick bow?
i shoot nearly everyday for 3 years now, my shooting is good, i am just trying to get my broadheads fly the same as field points and looking for new methods besides bareshaft flight
I have never bare shafted to tune arrows, I have always paper tuned, that being said, I have never had to tune when switching from field tip to broad head though I always check that they fly the same, maybe I've just been lucky.
I've been told that this could be because I am lucky enough to have good form and a pretty smooth release, though I do work hard for both.
I bareshaft tune at 6,12 and 20 yds. If my bareshaft is low of the fletched group, I raise my nokking point, etc.
I don't worry so much about what angle the BS is at...but only its location.
When you get it right...the bareshaft floats to the target without a lot of wiggle.
Once bareshaft tuned, My BH's fly to same POA as my FP's...assuming your arrow is assembled properly
I like bare shaft tuning and have not bothered with paper tuning for awhile. I just like the fact that I can keep a bare shaft in my quiver and check my flight of that arrow at any time or any distance. If I got a bare shaft flying into the fletched group nicely at hunting ranges I am good to go. I mostly make my own hardwood shafts. When its time for a new set I consider that my form and release may have changed over time. Therefore, I start with a new hardwood shaft slightly overspined. I'll shoot it for a few nights watching its flight carefully. I always shoot it just as I would in a hunting situation with cant and different positions. I figure no use doing something totally different than the way I am actually going to be shooting it. When I am convinced that I am shooting that arrow nock right consistently and to the same degree, I'll start reducing its spine by placing it in a drill and sanding it down. Next I shoot some more over a few days and repeat until its where I want it. Now I finish my other shafts to the same length and same mark on the spine tester. The rest of the project entails fletching some of them up and making sure they still all shoot the same place...
Dan
....that is, fletched and bare shafts going to same spot on the target!
Dan
I came to the conclusion long ago that Kelly is right. I have many arrows of all different spines in the shop. I don't bare-shaft. I simply pick a variety of arrows of different spines and go shooting. If I'm wanting a hunting arrow w/ broadhead I do the same thing. It's fairly easy to recognize good arrow flight. If it flies well and hits where you look why get overly technical about the process?
http://www.arrowskp.com/Kelly_s_Tips.html
Paper tuning don't work for me, and I don't think it works for most people unless they are shooting with some sort of a release aid. I bare shaft tune and find it works for me. However, if you have a perfect release every time, paper tuning may work just fine for you.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bowwild:
I paper tune, just like with my compound (6' away from framed paper). Been doing it this way ever since I realized tuning was necessary which was around 1980, about 10 years AFTER I got into archery. I used to blame wind-plaining arrows on broad heads!
I proof the tuning a couple of ways:
1. Shooting at distance (20 yards) and observing arrow flight.
2. Shooting a broadhead tipped arrow followed by a couple of field points, they should group the same.
I adjust for nocking point first and the left and right. I'm careful about shaft selection to make sure I'm in the ball park. I adjust LR with insert and point weight tinkering. Rarely do I have to manipulate side plate and when I do, it is of very little use.
I tried bare shaft tuning a few times. For sure it works, but no better than my paper tuning and I can paper tune with fletching attached.
Thanks for saving me the time to type all that out. That^^^^^^^^ is exactly how I do it.
Bisch
As above, X3. But I usually skip the paper tuning in the first place and observe flight (also strike plate and shelf plate wear) from around 20 yards.
Shooting instinctively doesn't affect where your arrow will hit when you tune. Aim at a spot and shoot 3 fletched and 3 bare and see where they group. Start with spine first them do nock point second. Also if you shoot through paper don't can't your bow. Keep it straight up and down.
"how can you do this if you shoot instinctive?" One more reason to aim.
Doing what the OP asked for I use bare shaft tuning like Ken Beck of Black Widow describes. It's simple and works.
so you look at which way the arrow impacts whittler?
I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but don't you have any experienced trad shooters in your area that can help you with this stuff. It is very hard to "get it" over the internet, and a first hand person to show you really lessens the frustration and learning curves!
Good luck getting things figured out!
Bisch
The question I have always had is this: If you are a new shooter and have tuning questions where do you get the perfectly tuned fletched arrows to compare with your bare shafts. I paper tune to get in the ball park and then check my bare shafts a 30 yds. Then I fine tune with paper, adjusting brace and knock until I am happy. What I like about bare shaft is the fact that I don't have to worry about rain affecting the flight.
MAP
...the comparison between bare shafts and the fletched ones of the same spine is relative. I think that even if you are not a perfect shooter (we are all in the process of improving at this through our hunting careers hopefully!) you will still tend to shoot a certain way and can still use bare shaft tuning. If, for example, your arrows are slightly too stiff, your bare shafts will be more to the left of the fletched ones which will always correct more in flight. The fletched ones may still be to the left of your target though. That doesn't matter. Just reduce spine of each arrow by sanding as I do or heavier point etc and compare again. Now, perhaps the group will be together at your intended target. By shooting the bare shaft over days and tweaking it slowly by reducing its spine, I am able to see how the arrow flys most of the time.... You don't need perfectly tuned arrows to do this...they WILL be perfectly tuned for your individual shooting style once both the bare shaft group and fletched shoot to the same place. That's the way I understand it anyway....
Dan
thanks for the intresting replies and help guys, i guess im just bored waiting for my new arrows i am out of mine, i need to get stuff so i always have it on hand to make my own
I shoot with a tab (shot with a glove for a year). Paper tuning works like a charm for me. My release is very consistent, I've chronographed it.
There would be no reason why paper tuning would require a release aid anymore than bare shaft tuning. The reason some might think the release aid is more often paper tuned because lots of shops set up release aid "fired" compound bows by paper tuning because it is fast and very objective.
The couple times I bare shaft tuned was when I was considering cutting the shaft to tune to make sure I could use a specific weight broadhead. I didn't like it because the tune always revealed I needed longer arrows than I'm willing to shoot. So, I went back to PT and flexible weight broadhead choices. Don't get me wrong, the tune didn't change from one method to the other, my alternatives to adjust tune did (but they didn't have to). I use this method with my son, brother, daughter, grandson, and anyone else that needs help.
A friend and gold medal olympian (team in Atlanta) doesn't use either method. He shoots groups at 50-70 meters. He doesn't care a bit how well his arrows fly, just how they group. Of course that wouldn't work for broadheads because the broadhead will overrule (plane) the fletching the first chance it gets from a wildly fish-tailing arrow.
Yes, 6' is fine. Actually, I count the 12" tiles on my basement range 6-8' doesn't make much difference. I place the rack about 1.5 arrow lengths in front of my backstop. A quick way to make a rack is just cut out the bottom/top or sides of a good sized cardboard box. Tightly tape Christmas wrapping paper, butcher paper, etc. over the hole. Slicker systems can be made with PVC pipe and attach a roll of paper at the top. You simply roll out fresh paper, tape it in place, and shoot.
I didn't read all the posts but spent a lot of time earlier this yr tuning arrows. I used the methodology on the tuff head website(sponsors here). They use basically Ashby's method but it is explained really well there.
Luck!
Nhbuck, I watch the arrow fly to see if the nock is too the right or left as it flys to the target.
Go on the Widow site Ken Beck has a video.
I paper tune. Never had trouble getting bullet holes with my tab. Helped several others do the same with no issues.
First of all, I don't use carbons which require too much tinkering.
Whether it's wood or aluminum I look at the chart, buy the appropriate shafts, fletch, cut for 1" BOP past my draw, add a 125gr point, and shoot a perfect flying arrow.
I don't fool around tuning bows much either. 5/8" high for the nock, brace is from my wrist to the end of middle finger. Again, the arrows fly great.
I've been doing this for long enough to know what works for me. I can be out killing critters instead of agonizing over micro tuning.
Your over thinking it man. I forgot about that video from ken beck on you tube. That's also a gat video to watch. He keeps it simple and doesn't over complicate an easy process. Good luck
so ken becks method is on how the arrows flies right? i thought it didnt mtter how bareshafts fly but how they impact with fletched
nhbuck1, it's just a different way of skinning the cat. To each their own and good luck.
This may be my lack of understand regarding paper tuning, but I have wondered how it can be depended on alone. I know when I bare shaft tune that I can watch the flight of the shaft and see if it tends to fly stiff or weak; nock high or low, etc. With paper tuning I was left wondering if I was catching the arrow during a correction phase or in its actual desired flight phase. That is, if the paper is at 6 feet, I release and the arrow tries to fly stiff, but the fletching catches it and swings it back in correction, I could in theory catch an image of the shaft appearing weak. The arrow is wagging back and forth initially as it is being corrected by the fletching, how do I know if the tear is accurate? Seems you would still want to at least double-check with bare shaft? I would think that the paper better be very close to reveal the most accurate tear?? Am I way off?
Dan
intresting question oldrubline, i would like to hear more about this myself, i was going to try paper tuning but this has my puzzled as well
I guess I've been doing it too long myself. I only shoot wood arrows and I see all the posts about tuning carbon arrows. I make up a nice set of woodies, put some points on and go shoot. Every once in a while I'll get a bad one, but I can tell right away if they're good. I haven't had any in the last 20 years or more that didn't fly good so I'm happy with it. I make sure the broadheads are mounted straight and shoot them to see, then I sharpen them and go hunting. Very simple.
"I guess I've been doing it too long myself. I only shoot wood arrows and I see all the posts about tuning carbon arrows. I make up a nice set of woodies, put some points on and go shoot. Every once in a while I'll get a bad one, but I can tell right away if they're good. I haven't had any in the last 20 years or more that didn't fly good so I'm happy with it. I make sure the broadheads are mounted straight and shoot them to see, then I sharpen them and go hunting. Very simple."
Been thinking about suggesting wood arrows, nhbuck, and already suggested the simple approach, and tuning to your broad heads. Give it some thought.
I agree with mec lineman!
IMO we stick and string archers tend to spend too much time/discussion on two things. The first is aiming and the second is tuning.
Of course you have to do both but there are other things that will effect your arrow flight and where you hit much more than either...in my opinion.
If you take the time to cut the fletching from an arrow and try to shoot it at hunting distance, it will tell you plain and simple whether or not you need to tune. I have had 'good arrow flight' with FLETCHED arrows that I picked on a spine scale for a particular bow. BUT, when actually shooting, they were going sideways by the time they flew 15-20 yards without the fletch. It really is important in my opinion, to shoot bare shafts to see what your shafts want to do. If they are too stiff or weak you are losing a lot of forward momentum as your fletching works to correct their flight. It is a simple matter to bare shaft tune and see what those shafts want to do with your unique shooting style and other variables. Then you can adjust spine up or down. It doesn't have to be really minute and precise...just get them flying reasonably straight at 15-20 yards without fletch and I (personally) think thats enough. No use losing valuable energy in the hunting arrow from poorly selected arrow shafting...(FINE PRINT: this is my humble and 'take it for what its worth' opinion)
Dan
PS- Did I mention bare shafting is dang simple?!
so how many here just paper tune and when it shoots bullets good to go?
also how tight does the paper have to be? if i put a tack on top and let bottom hang will that be ok?
Paper should be taunt. I use plastic spring clamps when I use a simple cardboard frame. If I use a paper roll, I clip the paper at the bottom. You want the paper to stay in place as the arrow goes through, not push the paper.
By the way, I spent more time last night on the web looking for the science behind paper tuning, than I ever before. I thought I had it after watching some paradox videos. I thought the key was to get the arrow and bow in tune enough that the fishtailing stayed within the two nodes of oscillation with the feathered end trailing in more or less a straight line, through the paper at 6 feet. I read many explanations of paper tuning and frankly, none made sense and even I knew that some were hogwash theories, and I'm wanting to believe what I've been doing (paper tuning) is worthwhile.
In the end, I was not satisfied. So far, while I believe paper tuning has worked for me for the 30+ years I've used it, I don't know why.
I have a strong acquaintance, archery engineer, that I'm going to ask about this.
If I find that paper tuning is simply a "sugar pill", I'll have to decide if I'm going to keep taking it.
soyour saying its not accurate?