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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Ram_n_arrows on November 14, 2016, 05:20:00 PM

Title: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: Ram_n_arrows on November 14, 2016, 05:20:00 PM
Hello guys, I am new to traditional archery as it peaks my interest.
I am currently shooting a 70lb Mathews halon and want to buy a bear grizzly as my first recurve.
This bow speaks history and is something I can't stop thinking about

Now I am a strong 22 year old. I stand 5'7" and weigh about 165lbs.  I recently bought the (heavy) bow fit training tubes knowing that recurve so you hold back way more weight than a compound. I have the tubes as heavy as they get and can hold it at full draw for a good 30 seconds without creeping.

My draw length on a compound is 27", and when measure for a recurve it is more like 26-26.5.   I want to be hunting deer with it next archery season and want to be around 50lbs at my draw length. I'm torn between the 55lb and the 50.  Can anyone share some tips with me?   I realize that at my draw length, both bows will most likely pull under 50lbs. Thanks for any help!
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: wingnut on November 14, 2016, 05:29:00 PM
Go with the lighter bow.  It's plenty for deer and you'll handle it better while learning the new shooting method.  It is actually a pretty easy transition if you use your current shooting form and just put a recurve in your hand and a shooting glove on the other.  Everything else is pretty much the same.  Your draw should be about the same once you get used to the weight.

Good luck and welcome to the world of trad.

Mike
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: A.S. on November 14, 2016, 05:30:00 PM
The best tip you can get, is don't over-bow yourself to start with. 45#s is plenty.

Learning good form and being accurate is much more important.  Forget about speed and drawing 70# with your compound.

Go out and have fun!
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: Ram_n_arrows on November 14, 2016, 05:43:00 PM
Trust me sped is the least of my concerns.
I am more about momentum and arrow weight than speed.
I'm shooting 466gr. Arrows out of my halon and will probably be more around 500gr. With the recurve.

Will the 50lb. Grizzly put me around 45lbs at my draw length?  Not sure of the weight reduction from draw lengths.
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: Pine on November 14, 2016, 05:51:00 PM
I guess a 50# at your draw would still be over 45# .
I think you have the right idea .
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: Michael Arnette on November 14, 2016, 05:55:00 PM
Well I hope you have a blast! Traditional archery is so much fun. I would think 50 pounds would be a great set up for you, you could go 45 also but I think 50 would be a fine weight to begin with and plenty for any  whitetail
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: monterey on November 14, 2016, 05:56:00 PM
If you don't have a specific bow picked out, don't hesitate to go for a 35# bow.  If you do it now and start building your form and technique over the winter you will be ready to pick out the bow you want to hunt with in the spring.  If you get around some shops and shoots  you will have opportunities to try some bows.  You might end up with something altogether different than the grizzly.
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: Ram_n_arrows on November 14, 2016, 06:01:00 PM
Thanks guys. This is very exciting for me.
My grandfather used to shoot instinctive with his bow. He could throw a hat up in the air and drill it before it came down.  I would love for him to see me getting into real world archery.
I can stack arrows with the compound out to 80 yards and hit what I am aiming for. I am 100% up for the challenge of traditional.

How accurate is the dynamic spine calculator on 3rivers archery?  
I amSold on starting with carbon arrows.
Looking at gold tip classics with the footing.
At 29" cut with 125 up front and a 75 gr brass insert it says the spine is good for my draw length and poundage?  How critical is spine ?
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: Yewbender on November 14, 2016, 07:17:00 PM
Welcome!!! and get ready for a great journey into traditional archery! This is a great site and as you can see the help is on the way. Don't be afraid to ask any questions you have because the great folks on this site will help you out. Good luck and get ready for an awsome addiction    :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: Cwilder on November 14, 2016, 08:24:00 PM
Start off with low weight and get your form right
Work your way up as you go.
People make that big mistake and start off too heavy
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: mark Willoughby on November 14, 2016, 09:16:00 PM
first off welcome and as others have stated buckle up bc this is one awsome ride id say the 45 @ your draw would be a great starting point bc trust us  you will rather have a bow you can shoot all day rather than something you strain on and get unmotivated with right off the rip form is everything with a trad bow start out light and work up in weight as you mature more in your form youve come to the right spot for knowledge and motivation and keep in mind what you like today in that grizzly may very well not be whay you like tomorrow but its a solid starting point good luck and i look forward to your harvest pics next fall
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: Irish Archer on November 15, 2016, 08:31:00 AM
I'd offer that you get a 45lb bow too. It would be an easier learning curve, and you can shoot it forever (or a family member could) if you decide to keep it that long.

And, you won't be 22 and as strong as you are now, forever, trust me......lol

Someday later in life you'll want to shoot that bow again. Just another way of looking at it.
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: Irish Archer on November 15, 2016, 08:37:00 AM
I'd offer that you get a 45lb bow too. It would be an easier learning curve, and you can shoot it forever (or a family member could) if you decide to keep it that long.

And, you won't be 22 and as strong as you are now, forever, trust me......lol

Someday later in life you'll want to shoot that bow again.
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: Draven on November 15, 2016, 08:46:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Ram_n_arrows:
   I want to be hunting deer with it next archery season and want to be around 50lbs at my draw length. I'm torn between the 55lb and the 50.
If you want #50 or #55 at your draw length (26 1/2") the bow you are looking for should be around #60 @ 28".
If you want to hunt deer, a #50 @ 28" to be around #45 at your draw length is a better starting bow.
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: Sam McMichael on November 15, 2016, 09:20:00 AM
I am the odd man out here, in that I think a 22 year old, who is regularly working out could pull a 55# bow without undue effort. It will take a bit more training, though. (You will note that there is an ongoing debate about low vs. high draw weight on this forum, and I certainly don't intend to enter it here.) All I am saying is that a guy of your age and strength will not have difficulty with a bow of this weight if you do the work.
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: joe ashton on November 15, 2016, 10:14:00 AM
Jacob
Welcome.
Shooting trad gear is fun.  I picked up a recurve 22 years ago and life was over as I knew it.
I am thinking at 22 the 55#  bow should be no problem. Be conscious of your form and keep practice sessions short,  a dozen quality arrows at a time.
Enjoy.
Joe
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: BlacktailBowhunter on November 15, 2016, 11:56:00 AM
Use a bow that is 40 at your draw weight to develop great for and muscle memory then move up from there.

Perfect practice makes perfect shooting.

You do not want fatigue to come into play.

Something I've struggled with is picking a spot on critters. I would recommend shooting at a black piece of cardboard and picking a spot.

Best of luck to you.
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: fireball31 on November 15, 2016, 03:26:00 PM
I'm with Sam Mcmicheal on this one. Someone at your age who works out regularly will not have any difficulty pulling 45lbs at your draw length. I would build up slowly though. Don't go out and fling hundreds of arrows. It took me a long to time to realize that practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. Now, as soon as I start to lose focus or start to get strained I stop in order to avoid bad habits.
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: Tajue17 on November 15, 2016, 03:34:00 PM
Jacob Im from Mass on the south shore my club is Hanson Rod N Gun, if your fairly close to my area I can let you check out some recurves and help you get the basics down enough so you can practice and be ready for next year.
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: Ram_n_arrows on November 15, 2016, 05:33:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Tajue17:
Jacob Im from Mass on the south shore my club is Hanson Rod N Gun, if your fairly close to my area I can let you check out some recurves and help you get the basics down enough so you can practice and be ready for next year.
Oh no kidding.  I am a member at the Woburn sportsman club. I live on the north shore.  Once I get my bow I may take you up on that offer !
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: crazynate on November 15, 2016, 06:45:00 PM
If I could go back and buy my first recurve again it would be a 40 pounder. 50 is easy for my but when you want to shoot a lot you will do more bad than good. Good luck
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: AZ_Longbow on November 15, 2016, 07:02:00 PM
Easiest way is to buy several, a 40,45,50,55. You know your going to anyway. It's a great addiction.
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: RodL on November 15, 2016, 08:45:00 PM
I know you are thinking about the bear grizzly, but if you would go with a takedown recurve you could buy a bow with a set of limbs in the 45lb range then if you need to you could get a set of heavier limbs if you feel you need to.

Rodney
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: Ram_n_arrows on November 15, 2016, 09:11:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by RodL:
I know you are thinking about the bear grizzly, but if you would go with a takedown recurve you could buy a bow with a set of limbs in the 45lb range then if you need to you could get a set of heavier limbs if you feel you need to.

Rodney
I don't really like the looks of take downs. It seems like most people love the grizzly and the tradition behind it has me dying to shoot one.  I am gunna shoot both 50 and 55 to see which one I can handle best.
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: Friend on November 15, 2016, 09:22:00 PM
All the best with whatever decision you choose.
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: on November 15, 2016, 11:52:00 PM
Good luck, and welcome to the Gang!

Bisch
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: forestdweller on November 16, 2016, 10:49:00 PM
It depends on how much you plan on shooting and how well you want your form to develop.

If you plan on shooting at least 2-3X a week if not more starting out with even 40# is going to be a mistake as it will be too difficult to learn good form on.

Personally I would start out with 35# and go with a 40# bow in a year once you have built a solid foundation in your form.

If you want to be very accurate and plan on shooting a lot of arrows to build up your form even 40# will be too much.

You like most archers will just build up in weight over the years. Starting out at 40# or greater is a big mistake though.

Truth be told a well placed shot from even a 30# pound bow has taken down many game and still has a lot of power.

For reference the last time I checked I can draw back 65# and hold at full draw for 30 seconds but I shoot a 45# bow at 27 1/2" so about 44# because I want to be in full control of the bow at all times and not the other way around.

A good goal is to go up 5# a year in draw weight.

There's a lot of people shooting 55 ~ 70# bow's in the trad community but chances are most of them are over bowed and the bow controls them which will account for accuracy issues.

Plus shooting should be a joy and pulling back a bow that controls you even the slightest is not fun and hard on the joints.
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: dbd870 on November 17, 2016, 07:57:00 AM
I shot my daughters 35# bow some starting out as well as a 45# Grizzly. From day 1 I shot the Grizzly better. I think a little heavier bow pulls the string off you fingers better and makes for a cleaner release. I came from using a 60# wheel bow I do agree with those who say 40-45# is about right for those changing over.
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: KeganM on November 17, 2016, 09:03:00 AM
There are lots of ways to skin a cat. This is just my opinion based on my experience:

Accuracy and broadhead design and sharpness have killed more deer for me than draw weight. I'm 25, work out regularly, and used to shoot bows up to 90#. I've killed more deer with 45-50# than I ever did with the heavy stuff. Deer aren't that tough if you use a GOOD arrow and broadhead. I like the big Simmons two-blades, and still get almost all pass throughs. Can't kill 'em if I can't hit 'em though!

Almost everyone I've met coming from a compound could handle 60% of their peak comfortable weight, so you should be fine. Your draw should also wind up longer than your compound as you get comfortable since there's no D-loop or release in the way. Draw length can offer more power than draw weight alone.

I think no matter what you choose you'll be good. Just focus on your shooting, set up a solid arrow, and maybe err towards 45-50# rather than 55#. It's your bow and your journey though, so just have fun with it!
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: Alexander Traditional on November 17, 2016, 09:22:00 AM
You will really like hunting with a trad bow. I think like some of the others. If you could hold that training band for that long and are in really good shape,and have been shooting compounds. I don't think you would have any problem starting at 50 pounds at your draw. I started out at 45 pounds and wasn't in very good shape,and now shoot 55 and 60 pound. I don't think you would be under bowed with a 45 pound,but think you would be out of it very quickly.
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: Bladepeek on November 17, 2016, 10:48:00 AM
I'm not going to get into the bow weight discussion. I'm an old man who has grown comfortable with a reduced draw weight.

I will say that you will find trad bows somewhat more critical of spine than your compound, if for no other reason, the compound is center shot. You didn't specify the spine of those arrows you are looking at, but don't make the mistake of going too stiff. I would say 500 spine with that 200gr up front will probably work fine. If necessary you can play with the total weight to get them flying right. 400 spine would be way too stiff for a 50# bow drawn 27" I think.

Big Jim is a great source of shafts and arrows and whether you buy there or not, I'd get his opinion on the best arrow set-up once you decide on a bow.
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: dbd870 on November 17, 2016, 03:06:00 PM
Agreed; I shoot 500 spine with 200gr up front with  45/46# bows.
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: Ram_n_arrows on November 17, 2016, 04:17:00 PM
Yes those arrows are 500 spine.
Its funny I know a whole lot about compounds and getting my spine and arrow weight correct. I know squat about trad.  Can't wait to start this journey.

Everyone has a different opinion on how to leave the bow too. Do I unstrung it after every use?
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: hawkeye n pa on November 17, 2016, 06:21:00 PM
I didn't read every thread but I would by a used/or off brand bow of  45# and start shooting now then in a few months order your 55# bow and work into it, even if just by drawing and holding with out shooting.  

Enjoy the journey!!!  Your transistioning from a  "science to a art".  Be patient.
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: Rough Run on November 17, 2016, 06:33:00 PM
Some leave their bow(s) strung for long periods of time but, I have never done that.  It just seems logical to me that the less tension the limbs are under, the better for the durability and longevity of the said limbs & bow, whether recurve or longbow.  I unstring at the end of the day, always.
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: longstiks on November 19, 2016, 07:53:00 AM
I don't know how far it is from the north shore to the south shore but of you could get together with Tajue17 and shoot some different bows it might give you a better idea of what you want to get. It's always better to try for yourself than to just go on other's advice, just my two cents.
Denny
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: beendare on November 19, 2016, 10:00:00 AM
I'm in starting light camp....I made the mistake of starting too heavy coming from 80# compounds....its just different. 35-40# is a good starting weight imo...sometimes lighter. Its worth it even if you have to get a cheap starter bow.

Its not that you aren't strong enough to pull a 50# bow...its that you need time to develop the fine muscle control to hold and aim it. I see a lot of guys at shoots and such that never even get to full draw...snap shooting.

Some guys do Ok with this...but they will never have the accuracy of someone with a solid anchor and backtension pulling through the release.

Its worth having a coach show you the right way to shoot..as bad habits are hard to break- i've Been There- grin [and I guarantee there are a lot of guys nodding their heads reading this]
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: Tyler C. Moore on November 19, 2016, 10:22:00 AM
Let me know if I can help. I'm only a few miles away from you when I'm not working in the city, and can help with most questions you will have.

I'll be crazy busy hunting and working until after the holidays. But should be able to find time to shoot with you or help in any way I can .
Title: Re: Switching from compound to recurve.
Post by: YosemiteSam on November 21, 2016, 07:28:00 PM
I'll tell a bit of my story and what has worked & let you decide what (if anything) to do with it.  At age 14 I got my first bow -- a compound but pretty much shot with my fingers.  I worked up to about 67# and by the time I was 16, I was putting 6/6 arrows on a 3x5 card & hitting pie plates at 80 yards -- not bad for shooting fingers, I think.  But I hated how fragile everything was.  One hiccup and the system fails.  And since 99.999% of hunting is just walking around in the woods, I wanted something lighter and simpler.  So I picked up a used 53# Browning recurve & tried my hardest to shoot traditional.  Never could get the hang of it and that recurve was a beast to hold at full draw.  At the time, I weighed about 160 lb and could bench 275 lb so I wasn't a scrawny kid.  Then college happened and that pretty much ended archery for me.

Fast forward 20+ years & I've learned a few things.  Form first.  I bought a Samick Sage so I could scale the limbs up and down as my strength and skills progress.  I started with 30# and even that was a challenge.  For perspective, the years have been kind to me so far and although I don't think I could bench 275 right now, I'm in better shape today than I was back then.  30# was a good starting place to work on form.  I also got a clicker.  Once I could group consistently at 20 yards with that 30# & kid arrow setup, I went up to 45# limbs.  That was a big jump & took some practice before I got my form back.  I probably should have done only 40#.  I now have a set of 50# limbs but pretty much only use my 45# limbs to hunt with.  By the way, I draw about 27" so we're about the same there.

For me, it helps to forget about what I think I'll want or need 5 years from now and focus on what I need to work on today.  With dedicated practice, it will take a couple months to get your form down and scale up to the next level.  At about $75 for each limb set, it's worth scaling up slow.  A Samick Sage isn't something to brag about but it gets the job done just fine -- much like a used Ford will get you from point A to B just as well as a new Mercedes (European Ford).  Whether it's a PSE, Ragim or some other brand doesn't matter too much at this point.  Focus on form & technique.  Pro athletes aren't good because of their equipment -- they're good because they've practiced a ton.  So a light bow (max 35#) will help you get the skills you need to be a good archer so that you can actually do something with that 50# bow when you finally get it.  I may upgrade to something nicer at some point but for now, it works.  Besides, I've started enjoying selfbows (I'm not the best bowyer) so maybe I'm regressing.

One last thing -- I wanted to learn instinctive but never could get the consistency I wanted.  Granted, I can't reliably hit anything with a thrown rock either so maybe that's my problem.  Gapping has worked well for me so far.  It isn't nearly as sexy as instinctive shooting.  But it's darned reliable.    Try all the methods & find what works.  Top-down methods (I like this therefore I will make this work) are always less reliable than trial and error (I use this because I've found it to work better for me).  Who knows, you may find yourself face walking with a horsebow and thumb ring many years from now.  It doesn't really matter.  Enjoy the journey!