So i accidentally shot a couple does with a right wing single bevel treeshark while using left wing feathers. Both does were hit good and penetration was great. I really dont think the spinning force of the feathers is even remotely close to the twisting force of the broadhead penetrating. I say if you got single bevels shoot w confidence. If a 2 inch head can do it easily a one inch head wont even know it switched rotation upon impact.
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g61/Chris_Blaskowski/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_3976_zpsx83qkj80.jpg) (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/Chris_Blaskowski/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_3976_zpsx83qkj80.jpg.html)
Cool to know! I didn't even know Simmons was making a single bevel model! Or did you modify them?
Holy cow!
Looks like it gets the job done .
Looks like the same hole a regular ol double bevel tree shark makes.....Its a conspiracy I tell Ya. :eek:
Congrats on them does!
Good hole
QuoteOriginally posted by Michael Arnette:
Holy cow!
No, Holy Deer!
Interesting. Thanks for the post
Simmons will single bevel custom upon order.
I just always worried about correct bevel and its confusing which way they go if you dont use them often. Very devestating hole as is usually the case with Treesharks.
I used "wrong" bevel the first year (2010) I hunted with single bevel. Killed two deer with em. Now that I "know better" I keep feather wing and bevel matched.
I agree though, as soon as that broadhead begins to enter the deer the feathers are just along for the ride.
There will be energy lost when the arrow changes its rotation, but I'm sure it doesn't amount to a hill of beans on a whitetail. Dr. Ashby's broadhead testing on asiatic buffalo found that having the bevel and fletching in the same orientation penetrates better. So if your arrow can penetrate 20" vs 18" and a broadside whitetail is 9-10" are you gonna notice?
Edge bevel is all the way down the list in the #10 spot if bone isn't hit, so I'm not surprised at all that you had good penetration with good shot placement even mixing bevels/wings.
Considering a bone breach, that moves this factor WAY up the list. "For example, a left single bevel broadhead trying to rotate counterclockwise upon impact would have to overcome the momentum of right wing feathers rotating the shaft the opposite way."
Remember the top of a doe's humerus about the same size and density as those buffalo ribs, and it's VERY close to the kill zone on an animal that often ducks or spins.
I'm glad you've had success so far, but if I were you I'd reflectch with right wing. It wouldn't be worth wounding a single animal in the future for something that would be so easy to fix now.
Thom
Have many of you been successful with single bevel tree sharks? The optimum single bevel head has a 3/1 length to width ratio so I dont know how well that would work with tree sharks but I shoot them exclusively and would like to know if Im missing out on even more devastation. Tree sharks are absolutely unreal. I believe they are the absolute best broadhead on the planet for deer, bear, and hog sized game. I even read about a guy that shoots them exclusively for elk and has never had one not pass through.
Personally, Ive killed deer, bear, and pigs with them and have never lost a critter with one except one bear that I shoulder shot.
In my opinion the bonus of the single bevel is lost on a head that big because it aint gonna split bone. The smaller single bevels will. A tree shark is a surprising for penetration. I love the grizzly at low poundage because it does cut an s and the single bevel is much easier for me to sharpen. Simmons don`t need an S cut because the blood will be pouring. RC
Left bevel vs right bevel isnt even on my list. Both combos have never failed me.
Traditional archery is supposed to be simple. We overthink things too much.
That is a big hole!
Those Simmons heads look amazing! I'm hesitant to try them since I am only shooting 45lbs but the exit wounds look intense! The single bevel grizzly I'm using now is doing a bang-up job so why switch though right!?!
You can't argue with that success. Curious could the wind on the bevel effect flight as in trying to slow or stop the rotation caused by the feathers. It seems like if they were the same it would help rotation in flight as well as in penetration. It probably don't make much difference unless your set up is marginally tuned. When I need to buy heads I will try the single bevels. Ken
Either way those Simmons are a fantastic broadheads!!!! Nice doe :thumbsup:
Doesn't take em long to bleed out through a hole like that..........
:scared:
Simmons have been making big holes like that since they were created....way before the 'bevel craze'. There are plenty of pics here on TG proving that.
Nice Shot....CONGRATS!!!
How much rotation does one get when the head enters flesh? I have only killed a few deer, and none with a single bevel, but it did not look like the arrow continued a great deal of rotation upon entry. Assuming this is an accurate observation, does it make any difference whether or not the bevels and the fletch match up as long as there is enough rotation for stable flight? I am interested in this, because I am considering single bevel heads. Thanks.
I don't know I don't have enough experience with single bevel but I do know that double bevel will spin through flesh as well as many Exit Wounds are completely different angle than the entrance wounds even on the four blades that I shoot as well as three blades
QuoteOriginally posted by Sam McMichael:
How much rotation does one get when the head enters flesh? I have only killed a few deer, and none with a single bevel, but it did not look like the arrow continued a great deal of rotation upon entry. Assuming this is an accurate observation, does it make any difference whether or not the bevels and the fletch match up as long as there is enough rotation for stable flight? I am interested in this, because I am considering single bevel heads. Thanks.
Just thinking out loud here, I would assume the arrow would rotate more the further it penetrates since the pressure of the flesh/bone pushing against the bevels is what forces the arrow to turn.
The direction of the fletching should not matter as far as flight goes but like mentioned earlier, the arrow will loose energy if it has to change rotation on impact.
For years we used original Grizzly heads the wrong way with excellent results on deer. When I went right wing to comply, I cannot say that I saw any differences on deer. I went to custom single bevel left wing Hills because I wanted to go back to left wing feathers, (the old feather cut on the knuckle and right wing feathers are harder to handle for me), I did notice an increase in blood with those compare to double bevel Hills. I think leaning the bevels one way or the other will cause rotation as well. I just sharpened my double bevel Hills, my wife's Zwickies and my friends new arrows that I made for him with 145 Ribtecs, it kind of makes me wish there was a 160 grain Zwicky that I could put on my Surewood arrows.
They will all work, single or double. Get em sharp and shoot em. As Terry said, these been making big holes since day one.
Ashby's studies and all of the discussions surrounding it looked at optimizing things for BIG game.
Yes, the arrow will fly well no matter the feather side. Yes, the broadhead will penetrate a deer well no matter the match up. You only need maybe 12" give or take to go thru most deer.
If you are trying to optimize, get the most out of it, match the feather spin to the spin the broadhead will induce so there is no energy loss, especially at the critical part where a large bone might be encountered.
By theory, a narrow head will induce a spin easier because of the geometry of the head and because there is less resisting force from those wide wings. In a deer..... just do it !
I think......
SHoot straight.
ChuckC
Ahh the purple Simmons. I'll bet Larry is smiling right now.
I matched left wing fletch with left spin bevel. The hit spins the deer 180 degrees and they run back on my property instead of onto the neighbor.
:)
Kevin,
If you used right wing/bevel, would the deer run back on your property as they did with left, or would they stay on your neighbor?
QuoteOriginally posted by SELFBOW19953:
Kevin,
If you used right wing/bevel, would the deer run back on your property as they did with left, or would they stay on your neighbor?
The 2 spins would cancel each other out. Carry the 4 and drop the 8. The end result would be a confused deer.
worked on me ( confused)!
Chuck