I'm just curious, at what point do you consider yourself to be overbowed and what are your standards to determine if you are overbowed or not?
I'm getting ready to go up in draw weight from 40# but when I shoot I usually shoot around 200-300 arrows and need to be just as much in control over the bow as my first shot of the day.
I've drawed back around 65# before and can pull it back multiple times and hold for 30 seconds (with shaking of course towards the 30 second mark) but I've heard some say along the lines of if you can hold for 10 seconds you are not overbowed.
Do any of you guys shoot a different draw weight depending on if you are hunting or shooting 3D/Field?
I've noticed the top 3D guys don't even shoot 50# for the most part and most stick to 40-45#.
In Olympic style archery the top shooters don't exceed 50 to 54# or so on the fingers with most hovering in the high 40's.
What are your thoughts?
I consider over bowed to be when your draw weight is too heavy for proper form or uncomfortable for what your doing. If all your doing is hunting and you only need 2-3 good shots with the ability to hold and aim well for 20-30 sec each, that bow will be a LOT heavier than a bow you need to make 200 shots with.
You are overbowed when the bow controls you rather than you controlling the bow. That's when you begin short-drawing, early release and stop engaging your back muscles because your mind has gone into "dump mode" (get rid of this arrow!) and is the beginning of target panic for some...a road you do NOT want to walk down.
Most of the high end target bows of the past, the Tamerlanes, Temujins, Tartars and Sovereign Lord Mercuries were made in the 30-40# range. There is good reason for that.
You can hunt with whatever you feel confident with, It is, after all, ONE shot. 200 arrows in an afternoon is a different story altogether
If you are shooting well with 40, don't change a thing.
If you make a noise when you draw.
If you can't hold it at full draw for 20 seconds.
If you have to lift your bow arm above horizontal to draw.
If you can't shoot 60 arrows in two hours without your form collapsing.
If you take the clothespin test and find your draw is 25" instead of 29" like you thought.
You may be overbowed.
I think it's a little bit more subtle. Being overbowed is that fine line where accuracy is diminished at too high a level. For me it's right around 60 lbs and I'm a little more accurate with 50-55 which is I think the best trade off for most average men
This is just my opinion ONLY as it applies to a HUNTING situation. It's one thing to shoot a bow in my back yard in July in Florida when it's 95 degrees at whatever your bow draw weight is...BUT, I hunt in the Midwest in November. Imagine sitting motionless for 2-3 hours when it's 26 degrees and ask yourself this question: Can I draw that same bow as smooth and effortlessly now as I did in my back yard in July ? For me, the answer was NO. In that scenario I WAS overbowed and had to drop down a little in bow weight. Again... This is what I had to do. Everyone else has to do what's best for them.
You will be able to tell when you start out and have no problem holding and getting the shot you want.
Then after a few arrows you start to shoot faster so you don't have to hold as long and your shooting goes south.
As been stated when you draw back and it's smooth, you are in control not jerking it back fast and just letting it go.
As for going up in weight everyone's different but I would say 5# is a jump. Good luck.
In my 20's and early 30's I was shooting 65#. Over the years I began dropping bow wt as my body and accuracy decline suggested. Now at 57yrs old I am shooting and hunting with bows in the 45# range.
I knew I was over bowed when I couldn't shoot a couple dozen arrows without a breakdown in accuracy. I was also having neck and shoulder pain that went away each time I got a new bow 5# lighter.
"overbowed" is that state when the bow rules you and not vice-versa. sometimes it only takes but a few pounds of added holding weight for the bow to be in control and not you, the operator.
worse yet is when you feel in control of a bow during practice and exhibit reasonably consistent accuracy, but when on the hunt, in cold/bad weather, and yer tired, and the adrenaline is rising, and you need to make that perfect critter shot NOW, you may find yerself short drawing as yer holding weight was too borderline to begin with.
there is no sense in having a bow that controls you - very counter productive on all levels.
I echo what's been said: when you are no longer in control, and your form and accuracy suffers, I believe you are over-bowed.
However, there are a number of accuracy tests to evaluate both consistency and accuracy, and if you are still able to do well then it shouldn't matter how heavy the bow is or how your form looks. If you can consistently shoot a 270 on a NFAA blue face snap shooting an 80# bow, then I'm not going to say that person is overbowed just because they couldn't hold at full draw for twenty or thirty seconds. They're accurate shooting their way so who am I to say otherwise?
For me, I shoot a high anchor and hold between three and five seconds on ever shot, so I can't shoot as well with bows much over 55#, and normally just stick with 45-50#. That's just me and what produces the greatest accuracy, though.
The ability to handle the bow, to me, is the deciding factor. If I can draw and hold for 10 to 12 seconds with good form and shoot comfortably for 25 arrows in a session, I feel that I am not over bowed.
As Rob stated, that poundage is not always totally static. In warm weather, standing upright at the target line does not equal the ability to pull that same bow in an odd position ( as might happen in an elevated stand) in freezing weather.
I can now, following shoulder surgery, shoot my 65# bow just fine for about 20 shots, but I can't do it nearly as well in the cold. In the past I could shoot it and my 78# bow for many, many shots. Now, I can't even string the 78# bow. My 53# bows are just about perfect for me now, so that is now what I consider a proper maximum hunting weight for me.
QuoteOriginally posted by GDPolk:
I consider over bowed to be when your draw weight is too heavy for proper form or uncomfortable for what your doing. If all your doing is hunting and you only need 2-3 good shots with the ability to hold and aim well for 20-30 sec each, that bow will be a LOT heavier than a bow you need to make 200 shots with.
"With the ability to hold for 20-30 seconds each"???
Where does this come from? If i hit anchor and shoot within 3-5 seconds, why do i need to be able to hold it for 30?
IMHO several factors here! Moving up in bow weight is good to an extent ! Moving up in bow weight gives you the ability to also move up arrow weight and maintain the same arrow velocity . If I am shooting a 40# bow and I shoot a 400 grain arrow at ( just a number ) 185 FPS then moving up to a 50# bow should give me the ability to shoot a 500 Grain arrow at the same velocity a heavier arrow will penetrate much better and SHOULD give better results. Hitting the desired target is much more important ( Once you get to a minimum needed for adequate game dispatch ) . MY OWN idea of being over bowed ( AND I was for many years causing Target panic ) Is that when I go to practice I am starting cold and If I cant make the first shot WITH EASE ( like you would if your on stand for a while then then the shot appears) then I have a bow that is too heavy . Building up your muscles, to shoot a heavier bow with EASE is a product of shooting a lot of arrows AND practicing with heavier bows . I shoot two bows for hunting both are at 50# BUT I do shoot a 60 # regularly to build up strength and stamina, building up the number of shots I can take in a practice session with both weights to increase the process.
QuoteOriginally posted by DanielB89:
QuoteOriginally posted by GDPolk:
I consider over bowed to be when your draw weight is too heavy for proper form or uncomfortable for what your doing. If all your doing is hunting and you only need 2-3 good shots with the ability to hold and aim well for 20-30 sec each, that bow will be a LOT heavier than a bow you need to make 200 shots with.
"With the ability to hold for 20-30 seconds each"???
Where does this come from? If i hit anchor and shoot within 3-5 seconds, why do i need to be able to hold it for 30? [/b]
I have been in situations where I was caught at 3/4 draw and had to hold. A few times when hunting on the ground I had to draw as the deer passed behind a tree and I hit anchor before they stepped out and had to hold. I shoot heavier than average bows and I do spend some time each week holding at full draw for 20-30 seconds and then making an accurate shot. It is tougher than it sounds (the making an accurate shot after part) but it has helped me take animals I would normally have not gotten a good shot at without it. Now.....all that said. I am not a snap shooter. I can do it if I have to but I am much more confident and consistent if I hit anchor and take a couple seconds to really focus on the spot I want to hit and then release.
QuoteOriginally posted by DanielB89:
QuoteOriginally posted by GDPolk:
I consider over bowed to be when your draw weight is too heavy for proper form or uncomfortable for what your doing. If all your doing is hunting and you only need 2-3 good shots with the ability to hold and aim well for 20-30 sec each, that bow will be a LOT heavier than a bow you need to make 200 shots with.
"With the ability to hold for 20-30 seconds each"???
Where does this come from? If i hit anchor and shoot within 3-5 seconds, why do i need to be able to hold it for 30? [/b]
It happens. Deer walks behind a tree, deer turns it's head your direction...let down the string and you're busted.
My wife just cleaned in my archery room, she declared that I am most definitely over bowed, over arrowed, over back quivered, and over hunting booted.
If my form is affected by the discomfort of the bow's draw weight, I'm over-bowed.
The discomfort results in the following:
- Short draw
- Too brief draw
- Pain
- Contortion of neck or shoulder as I try to "meet" the bow
- Poor follow through with drawing arm because I didn't get extended enough to involve my back in the shot.
Like a couple have written above, it doesn't take much for me. Three to five pounds is too much more (depending a bit upon the bow).
I have very little in common with a spring chicken these days. Therefore, I'm not as tolerant of a bit higher poundage as I was years ago.
Honestly, I (personally) believe many trad bowhunters are overbowed.
Let me explain...
OK, in the woods, one draw/one shot...they do fine. But if you hand them their hunting bow and ask them to do 100 arrows in front of a qualified archery coach, my guess would be that he would point out the following:
*form would begin breaking down after a dozen or more shots
*muscle fatigue would begin to have effect
*draw length would shrink by 1 to 1-1/2 inches
*hold time at full draw would decrease dramatically
*as a result, groups would open up and accuracy would go out the window
Now, if you don't practice much, don't feel the need to, and your "one shot" is good for you, then it doesn't matter. But if practice is your game, you aren't doing yourself any favors by pulling a heavy bow. You might be overbowed but the symptoms aren't showing.
"You are overbowed when the bow controls you rather than you controlling the bow."
Yep.
I don't consider someone to be overboard just because they can't do this.
https://youtu.be/WKPqCQwsHxo
QuoteOriginally posted by pdk25:
I don't consider someone to be overboard just because they can't do this.
https://youtu.be/WKPqCQwsHxo
Show off!!!!!!
And just incase anyone was wondering, Pat is a Heck of a shot!!
If you're out blind bale shooting i think it's fairly easy to control a bow that may be too heavy for you to shoot normally or in hunting conditions because you're just thinking about form. But once you throw focusing on a live animal into the mix it's quite different. I also believe that being an archer and bowhunter are two very different things. I do shoot what most ppl consider heavy bows and although my form may not always be perfect I like to think that my form is good enough for me to enjoy hunting with a traditional bow and make ethical shots on animals.
People's strengths vary greatly. I shot 200 plus arrows left hand and 200 plus arrow right handed yesterday in two separate sessions with a low 50s and a 60 pound bow. Two or three hours in the morning and about 4 hours in the afternoon with a young guy that was planning on getting a 75 pound bow. His logic was, "your a 65 year old old guy and I am in my 20s and work hard everyday." I talked him down to 50. I pay pretty close attention to my draw lengths so I do not short draw with long shooting sessions. Shoot net length arrows helps as my draw check control. My wife was shooting with me today about 50 arrows each and she declared good enough. He stopped by stiff as a board and said that he had to miss church today because he hurt everywhere. 'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.' I had my fingers crossed when I told him that, I was lying. 'What doesn't kill you the first time, may kill you the next time' sounds more like the truth to me.
For some reason (???) people get this thought in their head that "they're not a man unless they shoot a XX pound bow"
Everyone's muscle strength, bone and skeletal structure and shooting form is different. The smart archer or hunter knows this and finds the bow combo that will work for him...so that he can, at all times, dominate the bow rather than work around the handicaps of an overbow scenario...regardless of what others 'think' of him. In fact, everybody's opinion will start going up when he drags home more deer than anyone else.
I guess what I meant is, being overboard is relative to the situation. I have had exact time time where I had to hold over 5 seconds she hunting, and it was around d 10 seconds. Some people may never have to, so it seems silly to put a requirement to hold the bow back a specified amount of time. I play little games,like aiming 90 degrees off target then slowly swinging to the target, aiming and shooting. I do this with my heavier bows just to prove to myself that I can control when I release, and it is just something different that I do. Once again, I don't think that just because someone can't do that, that they are overboard. As long as they can hit the target consistently and maintain form under whatever shooting conditions they face, I think they are fine. That might mean that the same person might be overbowed with drastically different weights when spot and stalk hunting as opposed to 3d competition or practice. Since this is predominantly a hunting site, that is probably where more focus should be placed, IMHO.
I think one of the biggest reason that HUNTERS over bow themselves is that they think they don't have enough weight at their draw length to successfully harvest an animal ethically
That' super easy. Been there done that (in 1962).
Might be over bowed when you can't get it back to anchor and consentrate well after several days of shooting a whole lot of arrows such as the number referred to above in the post.
Pretty simple fix. For my over bowed situation, I bought a lighter bow. Solved the problem.
Probably so Tradcat. Experience is the best teacher of what it takes to get the job done, but sometimes you have to rely on what others have experienced at first. Lots of other threads with info on what low energy setups can do, and some others showing some advantages of higher energy setups, which a high percentage of the hunters here will never need.