Obviously it'll need to hold me plus gear plus an animal. It'll be used to access difficult locations on public lands by creek, lake, and river. I'm thinking short and wide will be better. I may even look for a flat stern to hook up a trolling motor on. What do you guys that use canoes for hunting find feature wise that you appreciate and what features do you wish you had but don't?
Stability, low mass weight, easy to paddle. I have an old town guide 119 that is all this. RC
A 17" Alumacraft Quetico is a real workhorse for the money and 64 pounds. It is slightly shallow arched so you don't want to play heavy see-saw games on rocks and logs, but they are the work horse of the North country. For hunting boggy stuff you do want something that you can mud skid and be able to get in the canoe from the end on a mud landing. For payload with a single paddler a 16 foot canoe is plenty. I think short extra wide flat bottom canoes are a pain, the stable feeling is deceptive, they may feel like a dock and then dump you out faster than you can believe. Canoes like the 16 foot Souris River make excellent solo hunting canoes and you can even paddle them tandem with less than 700 pounds on board. The 16 foot Old Twon Penobscot was an excellent canoe in Royalex, but the Old Town plastic jobs are too heavy. I would suggest to find a good looking aluminum canoe that not one of the heavy weights,less than 70 pounds, and the bottom is not oil canned. They are every where a couple hundred bucks should get a nice one if the owners don't use it much. There are old aluminum canoes stashed everywhere. One local person here couldn't find one, so he ran a want ad. He then a had a bunch to choose from. Some folks wanted almost a new price for beat ones and some looked almost new with no dents for cheap.
I have been paddling canoes since a kid, I paddle the Bill Mason way, Path of The Paddle. I have also been on 40 plus Canadian canoe trips, besides using canoes for everything locally. The one thing that I see most often is that people don't think that there is anything to learn concerning canoeing. Those are the people that I have learned, need to be left behind. I have given paddling lessons to Scout troops that could not paddle, yet they all had their paddling merit badges. They needed that to get up north on the trip. But this is what you can possibly run into with a canoe, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk8sfEQRwY8
Paddlers everywhere (myself included), are still mourning the passing of Royalex. As far as durability vs. lightweight it couldn't, and as far as I know still can't be beat without seriously "slapping leather". You can go to paddling websites and get up to speed on rocker, tumblehome and other design features, but if you're wrestling that beast by yourself mass would be a deal breaker for me. I was lucky enough to find a like-new Wenonah two years ago. If you watch craigslist you can still find them infrequently...family canoes where the kids have left the nest, they don't use them anymore and they don't know that the value has appreciated over time. Verify with serial #'s if you have to, some won't know what they've got. When the Royalex supply started running out makers offered the same models in polypropylene (plastic), but the weight is a dead giveaway. Royalex preferably shouldn't have been stored in direct sunlight for extended periods of time. Old Town, Mad River, Wenonah, Souris River...maybe even a babied Blue Hole!
RC, I didn't know you were a paddler, too...now I know how you're finding "hog heaven"!
This is my rig ready to go. the rivers are a bit high around here this year. I paid $500 for this used, it is the highest price version of this model ever built, 41 pounds, and has hauled 650 pounds of us and gear many times. (http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab283/pavanldb/IMG_0268_zpsj0k3wjk4.jpg) (http://s872.photobucket.com/user/pavanldb/media/IMG_0268_zpsj0k3wjk4.jpg.html)
I have an Old town camper royalex 16' does everthing I need for Louisiana waters which are kinda quite.Have put many miles in that boat.Kip
Check out New Canoe and Old Town Next Canoe . Wilderness also makes a hybrid canoe . This are light weight units that can carry extra weight .
what about a pirogue ?
For hauling gear and game go big and long. Check out tripping and expedition models. If handling any kind of moving water you want the weight spread out and low to allow you to still control the canoe with ease. Overloaded and short the canoe will not handle well. If flat water is all you will ever see not as big a deal. Mad River make one of the best canoes in North America. I've had both the 16' Expedition Kevlar and the 18' Lamoille Kevlar - I could control the Lamoille with a quartered bull moose in it by myself no problem.
All options are open. I'm planning to move slow on this purchase and hopefully only make it once. I've done a pile of canoeing and floating in college, but never really got too interested in the design/materials of canoes. I've certainly never used them as a hunting tool. That said, as I get one for hunting I'd like a pretty nice one new or used that's pretty well built for that purpose. I don't get out and recreationally float a lot anymore but I hunt a lot. I would like a nice, purpose built boat for hunting and then when I go out with family once or twice a summer just bring it along for the ride.
I love my 119. It's one of the best purchases I've ever made. Stand, Deer and ole Possum. It aint no family vessel though.
I use a nativewatercraft ultimate 14.5, like hybrid canoe/yak -- hauls little daypack climber and animal, either deer or black lab! Lol --- got to have hunting partner --- then deer goes out butchered!
QuoteOriginally posted by GDPolk:
Obviously it'll need to hold me plus gear plus an animal. It'll be used to access difficult locations on public lands by creek, lake, and river. I'm thinking short and wide will be better. I may even look for a flat stern to hook up a trolling motor on. What do you guys that use canoes for hunting find feature wise that you appreciate and what features do you wish you had but don't?
tell us something about the water and animal your are hunting. A deer across a small lake is a different solution than a moose across a large river.
I had a 15-1/2 ft bateau that would hold two guys, hunting and camping gear and whatever we brought back. Made out of 6mm Luan it weighed about 50 pounds.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Stumpkiller/Bowhunting/Gary.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Stumpkiller/Bowhunting/BalsamSwampBeachhead.jpg)
But that was for calm Adirondack lakes.
Look at the Sportspal canoe....12' ...carries 500 lbs....weighs 37 lbs...the aluminum is lightweight so it is easy to load solo but it is not well suited for rubbing on rocks. the square stern doesn't paddle extremely well, mine is actually configured with oars but it is easy to move fast with a little electric or gas motor. The 14' model carries 800 lbs and they are very stable. Good luck with your search
Waterways:
- Lakes with varied winds. Occasionally open water but mostly I'll be closer to the shorelines and keep the paddling under a mile or so.
- Rivers/streams: these will be mostly mild stuff. I may see occasional rocky areas but it doesn't really need to be made for whitewater floats. I'm just trying to access deeper areas of public lands.
I need it to hold at a minimum:
- Me (165lbs)
- A deer or large pig - say 200lbs
- Gear and food for up to a weekend - should be well under 100lbs TOPS even if I wind up with a heavy canvas tent one day
If at all possible it would be nice For it to be capable of:
- Seating two in case I want to float with a friend or family when not hunting
- Taking a trolling motor for when I'm out fishing
I need something that will be pretty durable and low maintenance. While I love the cedar strip and bark canoes, I need something a little more utilitarian for this kit. I don't have a preference for brands but would rather discuss specifics on what design specifications will be best suited for this endeavor as well as possible specific models that others use similarly and enjoy.
Right now, my Mind is thinking 16-18', flat stern, two seat, wide semi-rounded bottom, and with a little rock to it in either aluminum or fiberglass. I don't think a plastic hull will hold up well enough over time.
As far as tandem canoes go, some canoes are symmetrical, meaning they are the same front to back and they can be paddled backwards sitting in the front seat going backwards when paddling solo. Some canoes can be healed over very easily so when going solo you can slide over a little to make the water easier to reach. These do NOT have the thwart behind the front seat. Watch this and you will see what a canoe can and cannot handle in the wind. What you want in a canoe in the waves is one that has good secondary stability, one that can float on its corners. When bigger waves or boat wakes cross you the water will be at an angle, a flat bottom canoe with sharp corners will trying to match the angle of the water, while a canoe with moderate chines and a softer round bottom will stay up straighter and not dump you out as easily. Although such a canoe will feel tender to a certain degree of tilt, but then it will find its stability and hold. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq7CqhbzPUs
I wouldn't go with the flat stern. They don't paddle as well and you can easily make a motor bracket.
I don't have a canoe, but a gheenoe, which is is a wider style designed for a motor. It is a little heavier. I can paddle it fine, stand and walk around, and run a 8hp. Nissan two stroke.
Raddison Sportspal. Stable and light weight. Pretty quiet unless you really screw up in a rock or log. It us foam lined. I love mine. I can stand and shoot it in while drifting pretty good down the river.
Aluminum is noisy, I'd never hunt from one. The sportspals have foam so quieter but in the world of real canoes- sportspal is not a canoe it is a utility watercraft - nothing paddles worse other than a square stern backwards. Square sterns are hard to paddle if you have distance to go. Actually the plastic boats will hold up better and longer than fiberglass but they are on the heavy side. If you cannot store your canoe inside or under cover from UV rays expect shorter lifespan for fiberglass or kevlar - the sun is their enemy.A small electric motor bracket can be purchased and mounted on any canoe. Stay away from canoes with keels, you want a round bottom canoe for ease of handling by yourself. Any good canoe store will have demo days on local water where you can try out canoes. This is a good time of year to buy as many of the high end store sell off their rental canoes and demos this time of year. Find yourself a few issues of Canoe Magazine and read up on what is out there.
Yes full glaring sunlight can damage a canoe over time. UV protecting wax helps minimize it if your canoe is to be left out for a time, keeping them in the shade helps as well. The plastic boats suffer the quickest from sun. There was a young guy near here that shot a number of deer on the Big Sioux River with an aluminum canoe. I use the one pictured doing the same on the Little Sioux River, I have taken deer from the canoe seat, but we usually get out and hunt on land. We have also used the canoe for archery duck hunting on the river. Our rivers are at near flood stage right now, and our thing of paddling up stream in the early afternoon and doing the slow quiet drift back to the landing at sunset will be harder to do with the increased current.
Myers or Radison Sportspal.. Check it out.. Bet you can't flip it!
I have one with 2 pointed ends... They make a square stern model but I got the pointed ends for better paddling....
This isn't a canoe but you may want to consider it. Look at a Bass Hunter pond boat. I've been using one for the last couple years and have really enjoyed it. I have the 10' boat and it has 2.5hp gas motor and a 40lb thrust electric motor. Very stable boat that can get into very shallow water. I think the boat is rated for 500lb, gear and people. I put mine on a jet ski trailer which makes for easy loading and unloading but it will fit in the back of a pickup truck bed. You can also use this boat for bow fishing.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003LBVCB6/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8#immersive-view_1474475713005
I've used the bass Hunter boats before as well as small flat bottoms. I really think a canoe will be a better format for my needs. I do however appreciate the suggestion as a heads up to other options
The ability to float comes to mind! :bigsmyl:
Sorry Garrett, I don't know diddley about canoes!
Bisch
I bought a Mad River Duck Hunter several years ago, and don't think I'd trade it for anything else. It's basically the 16' Explorer with a dark interior and wood seats and rails. While it doesn't excel at any one thing, it's extremely versatile. I use it on ponds, lakes, and a variety of rivers.
It's also made of Royalex, so it's pretty tough and not too heavy (85# or so).
The OP did have some concerns about weight, too heavy is different for everyone. When loading a canoe off of a vehicle by yourself, the difference between an 85 pound boat versus a 50 pound or less kevlar becomes very apparent. Even though I have owned and used Wenonah Minnesota II and my Seliga for many canoe trips, I was surprised how user friendly my Kevlar Explorer was with 650 pounds on board. Safe in the waves, easily manageable in current and wind, and still has a nice enough cruising speed, not like the Minnesota II, but good enough.
The other advantage of Royalex that I forgot to mention is ease of repairs. My first canoe was a Royalex Old Town Tripper that I bought dirt cheap from a white water junkie. The botttom on that thing had been repaired so many times it was pathetic, but marine epoxy and fiberglass cloth will fix anything. I bought the high dollar repair adhesive Old Town sold when I had a polypropylene Discovery and it wasn't worth squat. In all fairness they have like three plastic laminations and are pretty much bomb-proof and weigh like it too! I miss my Iliad paddle too...it came with the boat. They don't make them anymore and I didn't realize it cost a Benjamin or so back then. I'm too cheap to spring for carbon...Santa, I've been very good!
No kidding, the Explorer in my pic, had a hit a dock post or something and had a gouge that was through the first layer of Kevlar. A 1" by 4" piece if fiberglass made it like new, but that gouge was the only reason that it was only $500.
QuoteOriginally posted by olddogrib:
The other advantage of Royalex that I forgot to mention is ease of repairs. My first canoe was a Royalex Old Town Tripper that I bought dirt cheap from a white water junkie. The botttom on that thing had been repaired so many times it was pathetic, but marine epoxy and fiberglass cloth will fix anything. I bought the high dollar repair adhesive Old Town sold when I had a polypropylene Discovery and it wasn't worth squat. In all fairness they have like three plastic laminations and are pretty much bomb-proof and weigh like it too! I miss my Iliad paddle too...it came with the boat. They don't make them anymore and I didn't realize it cost a Benjamin or so back then. I'm too cheap to spring for carbon...Santa, I've been very good!
I sprang for a Werner camano Caron bent shaft. I had to skimp and save but got it and it is worth every penny, if your traveling distances.
I kept n eye on like three different kayak shops online that regularly offered deals, like 10/20% off. Austin kayak usually does coming up on holiday season.
Just a thought
With my Explorer, when I use it solo, I use a longer Aqua Bound kayak paddle, sitting in the front seat going backwards. I stow packs up front to balance the canoe. If I have no packs, I use a rubber canoe pack about half full of water for ballast balance. Do not use rocks they can sink your canoe if you fill up with water. A tandem canoe can really get going with a kayak paddle since there is so little canoe in the water.
I gave up on the one-boat fantasy 30 years ago. I had to build a special boat shed, but having a 18' lake/marsh sweet paddling boat, a 16' indestructible / unsinkable river boat and 2 SOT kayaks covers all the options. Made a motor mount for the canoes for a 2.5 HP short shaft outboard.
I can't for the life of me remember the manufacturer...but think they got bought up or morphed into Golden Hawk Canoes.
I've had this one for 15 years or so. My dad gave it to me for Christmas one year. He got it off a older client of his that won it at a raffle. $50 was what the guy spent on tickets and dinner/drinks, so that was what he wanted for it.
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj56/mlsthmpsn/IMG_4318.jpg)
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj56/mlsthmpsn/IMG_4299.jpg)
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj56/mlsthmpsn/IMG_4294.jpg)
It's 12'9", has a square stern for motor (up to 9.9hp), but has a full keel so it rides well when paddling. Rated for more weight than you'd need for a long while, with room for a deer or two.
When I lived in Arkie, I used it a bunch out in Bayou Meto, and took it down the Buffalo River a couple times.
As has been pointed out, it's difficult to cover everything with one canoe. If you want two seats and plan to take one or more people in it at times, that pretty much rules out a solo canoe, which is my favorite.
Regardless, shorter and wider are more difficult to paddle fast or even reasonably fast or in a straight line than narrower, longer canoes. Ease of paddling should be a large consideration. It's just no fun paddling a tub that one can't control, particularly in windy conditions and/or choppy water.
Weight is important. It's not just getting the canoe on and off the vehicle. It's also portaging it and dragging it over beaver dams, etc.
For that reason I like Kevlar. Light and strong.
If I'm float hunting out of the boat rather than using it just to get somewhere, I prefer wood and canvas. Extremely quiet, look nice, not terribly heavy ( about the weight of aluminum) and in the right design, very easy to paddle. In fact, it's my favorite canoe construction/material. I build and restore them so have one for just about any situation. They're a lot more durable than most people think.
I always wanted a Seliga, I offered to portage one for Joe's granddaughter if we could paddle in on Lake Agnes, Quetico, that is a big lake and a long portage. She and her friend paddled my MinnII. Joe offered to make me one, but his health was fading and he never got to it. I now paddle the first Kevlar from Bell that was made using one of Joe's canoes as a form. I would guess the one that his granddaughter had was about 75 pounds.
Joe made a very nice canoe, several models, actually. His canvas paint job was absolutely the best. A kevlar version of his 16 footer would handle everything the OP is looking for, and Bell (now Northstar) offers an excellent layup.