First let me say I'm not looking for why this broadhead is better than that one I'm just looking for personal experiences with narrow broadheads. Preferably 2 blades. The reason I ask is because I've been listening to a pod cast about broadheads and in it the guy talks about how with narrow heads animals don't usually run as far. Especially if bone isn't hit. Kinda makes since to me because they would feel less shock. I wanna know if that statement holds any water so anyone with stories to back that up I would like to hear them. Again please no arguments about different broadheads
I shot a very large bodied buck last year with a lightweight recurve, and a grizzly broadhead at 17 yards. The deer causually trotted about 10 steps, then slowed and walked out 30 yards and fell over and started kicking. I dont think he even knew he was in trouble, but had no inclination I existed when I shot. I got lungs and heart.
One of my first bow kills, I shot a doe and got one lung and the liver. The arrow had a narrow broad head that was extremely sharp. The doe jumped a step, looked around, arched her back, and licked the exit wound ... no ribs touched. She walked about 60 steps, and laid down. She looked around - laid her head down ... looked up again, laid her down and she was gone. She never acted like she was hit and bleed out rapidly, going to for ever sleep without spooking. Broad head was about 1 inch wide by 2 3/4 inches long. Not much of a blood trail, she bleed almost all inside, but I watched her go down and she never moved.
Bob.
Shot a 5 point bull elk a number of years ago with a wood arrow and a 160 grain Grizzly out of a 66# longbow. It was complete pass through got both lungs. He flinched slightly and continued grazing for another 20 yards and fell over.
That has been my experience. Sometimes the deer doesn't seem to even know anything is wrong. I can't compare it to a wide short broadhead because I have never used them. Always had good luck with a Howard Hill style broadhead.
One of the reasons I ask is because I'll probably get out on some public land this year and I won't be able to get close to a deer with my truck like I do on private land I hunt. The last thing I want is for a deer to run 100+ yards in the wrong direction. I have some grizzly heads in the same weight as the heads I was planning on hunting with but if this seems to be the general consensus then on the public I may shoot the grizzlys instead. Please keep the experiences coming
If you know how to get Grizzly heads sharp, they are a super broadhead to use.
Bob.
File and a leather belt and I can get them really sharp
It all comes down to blood trails for me. Narrower 2 blades tend to not leave as good of a blood trail as wider ones.
In all the years I have been bowhunting, and all the deer I have shot, I have only ever had one that acted like it had no clue what happened. The rest all acted with the panic that you would expect after an object went thru their body.
I can also tell you this from experience. I use, and am a big proponent of the String tracker. I have found that deer will go a little farther when a string tracker is used, but that little extra is OK with me because I have a tracking aid that will lead me right to it. I believe that because they can feel the string that it makes them panic a little more.
Bisch
Of the many deer that I have taken with the bow only one reacted very little, two bounds stop look around and fall over, 2 blade zwickey delta hit no ribs in chest cavity. No bone hit I think was the key. I also prefer a bigger hole for more blood like Bisch because we have some thick stuff here in SC.
The deer Bisch hunts will jump at the sound of a leaf hitting the ground in Texas, can you say wired, lol
Ok so with a mixed bag of answers do you all think it just comes down to the animals mindset? And not necessarily the width of the object being pushed through it?
In general, they seem to run farther "all out haulin" when the arrow is flopping around in their peripheral vision. Seems like on pass through hits (with the arrow on the ground) they slow down the sprint sooner plus there are two drain holes. Exceptions and different situations always.
Relaxed critter, no bone hit, sharp broad head will all aid in less fright, extra width would increase chance for bone/rib hit.
On the other hand, cut a big wide hole and it should bleed out quicker all else being equal.
Get a deer cart to make the trip out easy and don't worry about it.
Honestly, Ive had more deer die in my sight, then ive had to track. However those mainly all were good solid double lung hits broadside. Its the less then perfect hit that generally makes me track, and those times I hit the opposite leg/shoulder. Im so use to watching my deer lay down, or tip over, I start to panic a little when they do run off. I think there are a lot more things come in to it then just the broadhead.
I think sharpness has more to do with it than size of head.
Ever cut yourself with a razor sharp knife, and not know it, except for the fact that you were bleeding?
Thank you all for your thoughts and not turning this into a big vs small head thread.
Katman I may just get a cart this year. Only problem is the land I'm talking about is strip mined conservation land here in sw Missouri. Not sure if any of you are familiar with the terrain of what's left after mining but what is left is long rows of mounds of dirt. Sometimes 30+ feet high. They are about 20 yards or so across and spaced out with maybe 50 yards peak to peak. Some are half mile or more long. All overgrown with timber and brush of course. Not really a place I want a deer goin deeper into. A cart would make it easier for sure but still rough goin. All part of the adventure I reckon
i think we all have stories like that :
shot a whitetail doe with a grissly head going right throught lungs , just a little jump, she stops fews yards away, looks around , starts to loose balance then felt down , kicking air .
I have had the same experience with more efficient bheads...grizzly heads are my favorite and leave a great blood trail
Are you confused now?
Smaller width 2B broadheads only kill them half aa dead.
Lol definitely confused. I think I may go for narrow on public land. Just in case
I can't tell you the number of times I've shot deer over the last 30 years WITH FOUR blades and had them bound a couple of times and turn and look around and walk 10 yards and fall over dead....or the times they when the back your eat acorns and fall over dead.....sometimes closer to me.
At one time I had a 32 yard recovery average recovery rate here in GA...I think it's at 38 yards now. This is my GA rate....little different story on deer......and 8 yards on MO deer (only 1)
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
I can't tell you the number of times I've shot deer over the last 30 years WITH FOUR blades and had them bound a couple of times and turn and look around and walk 10 yards and fall over dead....or the times they when the back your eat acorns and fall over dead.....sometimes closer to me.
At one time I had a 32 yard recovery average recovery rate here in GA...I think it's at 38 yards now. This is my GA rate....little different story on deer......and 8 yards on MO deer (only 1)
Terry, most folks can't shoot a 70 pound bow with accuracy level that you can LOL ...i've had a few experiences like yours with four blade Muzzy phantom heads when I was shooting 70 pounds as well. Since I've backed off the draw weight and like shooting a pretty lightweight arrow I've gone to the grizzlies
QuoteOriginally posted by Friend:
Are you confused now?
Smaller width 2B broadheads only kill them half aa dead.
Hahaha they all work within reason
Michael I was just addressing the question asked.... about two blades not spooking deer on pass-throughs and I was posting my experience on for blades passing through deer....bow weight has nothing to do with it..... 45 pound bows will pass through deer all day long if the hunter has done ALL of his jobs.
I've said it before many times ...deer are nothing but a grocery bag full of shaving cream with a few Tinker Toys thrown in and one ball joint...just don't hit the ball joint ..
The less weight you shoot the less chance you have of passing through the ball joint no matter the head....
There is no guarantee of a pass through with a 70 pound bow either....but that wasn't the question.....
I passed through a 300-pound shielded hog with a 60 pound bow and a 4 Blade Zwickey Delta and it didn't make it past 30 yards .
..same with a 250 HEAVY shielded boar....4 Blade Zeickey 30 yards....
Has nothing to do with the original question either but shows what a 4 blade can pass through if it is sharp, which all of our heads should be Sharp... and again if you can't pass through a deer with your traditional legal set up ....you got a problem.....As 300 pound Shielded hog is like passing through 3 deer.....and to the fletch of a 2000# Bison with a 3 blade that ran 60 yards. (yeah ...70# Bow...how many deer would that account for?)
But it ain't the head most likely if you don't pass through.... no telling how many deer four blade Bear razor heads went through deer in the past. :bigsmyl:
Don't sell out your equipment..
.and don't skip on your duties as a hunter and you will be fine
:campfire: :campfire: :campfire:
Well I'm shooting a super kodiak that I draw 61# on with 640gr 20.3% foc carbons so penetration wasn't my concern. I hunt with Magnus 1s but if the grizzlys caused less shock to the deer was guna go with them. I think, from all your answers, once again there's no one right answer. I think I will keep a few grizzlys in the quiver this year though
I have had deer react as if a fly bit them and after jumping, looked around and went back to what they were doing.
I am a very firm believer that if a deer is hit with a sharp, cut on contact broadhead (I am NOT convinced that narrow is better than wider, except may some super wide beasts) and you get a pass thru without breaking a major bone (not ribs), it will react less panicked.
Most will run a short distance, stand in thick stuff to look back and see what just happened and is it chasing them, and that's where you will find them if you are quiet and wait your time.
ChuckC
Charlie Lamb has hunted with mag 1s for years....he could tell you his experienced. Probably a lot like mine as they are very similar.
I've had the same results with Ace Standards and Magnus heads . Woodsman and Snuffers resulted in a slightly longer track job . If it's scary sharp . It will work so long as you hit the Hart or lungs .
And what if it doesn't go down right away are you going to be able to track it for some distance with little or no blood trail? To me finding an animal after it has been hit is important otherwise I wouldn't have taken the shot.My sons , my friends and I have been in on hundreds of kills of big game and all of us have relised long ago that narrow 2 blades have the veryu least percedntage of recovery . My youngest son who is 36 shot a nice 5x5 last week and it traveled over 300 yards through a cattail slough . The hit was perfect and he had a large blood trail. He used a snuffer ,if he would not have had a blood trail recovery would have been impossible. We have seen numerous deer travel some distance before going down and this happened also in the early days when we used 2 blade heads such as the Esqimo but we normally didn't find those animals if they had traveled maybe 75 yds. or more. Marginal hits can happen I seen a lot of them when I was guiding, multi blades might cut something extra and give you the advantage. Just think a 4 blade is like shooting a deer twice with a two blade......
QuoteOriginally posted by Gordon Jabben:
Maybe off subject, maybe not but I have found it interesting that American Indian arrows almost always have points that are 5/8" or less wide even after they went to iron, steel, and brass. I would think they would have used what works best and I have been surprised by it.
An interesting point that I often think about. Most the arrow points I find in my area are quite small and narrow.
I wonder if not having real constant shaft spine had anything to do with their choice to use those tiny heads. Or maybe the shaft material could not handle more point weight (reed shafts?) Or maybe Ockham's razor offers the best explanation and they simply used the smaller points because they found they worked the best for them.
Sorry to digress but I get excited about stone cultures and technology.
I wouldn't say my original question was futile. I simply asked if deer tend react less when shot with a narrow head than a wide one. I never doubted that both kill just fine. Now if I was to say what kills faster a 3 or 4 blade head ya that's futile.
Correct Mitch... some of these answers have nothing to do with your original question and you even stated you didn't want to Broadhead versus Brodhead post..... so I think I'm going to straighten the thread back up and put it back where it belongs.
With all due respect I do not think a broadhead will do much for your predicament. An animal hit with any head will go in just about any direction it needs to go to feel safe. Its hard to predict.
Darn thing could die at your tailgate, or run a mile through a swamp.
I tend to agree with Terry's assessment of deer. Not much to em, doesn't take much to get through em. Hit the shoulder or ball n socket, and its anyone's guess of what head might go through it.
Shoot you most accurate head, and enjoy the short drag if you get one.
Regards,
BB
I have killed deer with all sizes of broadheads and can tell you location of the exit has more to do witrh blood than anything. With no exit and the arrow stays in the deer will run hard and long and usually will not bed till its dead.With a bad hit that is fatal like a gut shot on a deer I hope I`m shooting the biggest broadhead I own. Because it will go through. the deer will bed in the first thick place it comes too in my experience.
When hunting a location like you are describing I would field quarter and bone out the deer where it falls if legal there. A 150 lb deer will fit in a walmart 25 dollar back pack. One that is a bit bigger will hold a big buck...never seem to need those much myself..lol
I once shot a buck with a 4 blade Simmons landshark. I hit the deer through the heart. He bounded maybe 15 yards and stood for long enough I thought I must have hit too low then as I reached for another arrow he fell over kicking and was dead.
In a very thick or WET place as is my case sometimes I focus on broadheads that give a lot of blood more than how far the deer will go at the shot. I have had deer run under 75 yards in thickets with poor blood that took me hours to find . RC
I have killed some deer and have never noticed a pattern as to what they do verse the size of the head. More on the location of the hit Or sound of the bow.RC
Devils advocate here.... :wavey:
What if a smaller broadhead caused less reaction from a deer and it didn't run far???
Or...
What if a bigger broadhead caused more hemorage and the deer didn't run far???
Which scenario sounds better? :p
In the theoretical world maybe one scenario plays out better. Does that relate to real world experience??? Hard to say. There's so many variables involved with what we are trying to do. We can never truely replicate the exact same scenario in a repeatable way to test each broadhead (the only scientific effort I've seen towards this is Ashby's work). Shot placement, angle of entry, rib/bone contact, radial orientation of the broadhead as it hits and passes, size of the animal, before/during/after reaction of the animal, toughness of the animal, adrenaline of the animal...etc etc etc
But I betcha if a feller hits bone he'd wish he had a narrow broadhead. If a feller hits guts he'd be wishing for a wider broadhead.
In the end I think you want two holes in the right spot so you can track it effectively. If you hit the right spot and get two holes the deer shouldn't run more than a few hundred yards, which is a small percentage of your total walk out there.
And I'm in the camp with the man above me. Dragging deer sucks. Carts are no good in terrain. Get a decent pack and quarter the deer. An average doe should be easily doable in one trip.
I currently use one of those military plastic packframe thingies with a belt and straps attached. Works well enough to get the job done, but I may upgrade to a kifaru.
Here is my take on the situation having heard this discussion many times over the years.
You really can't count on any broadhead doing exactly as you want EVERY time.
I've had animals run like a wild man was after them when shot with razor sharp narrow two blades leaving great splashes of crimson along their path. I've also had them stand mildly alert after the hit spilling nary a drop from my preferred massive Magnus I's 4 blade.
Those same scenarios have played out just opposite and every combination in between.
My advice is shoot the broadhead that you can get sharpest and which flies truest. That's something you can trust. After that you take what you are given and deal with it.
My personal choice is a big multi-blade head in every situation.
My shortest recoveries have been with two blades, but they also gave me some (certainly not all) of the worst blood trails too. That was with the longer Grizzly type heads. Simmons heads are a good compromise though, best of both worlds.
In spite of that I find myself hunting with 3 blades a lot, VPA, Snuffer or Woodsman type heads.
It's been posted on here 10,000 times but still true, shot placement has far more to do with results.
Seems we can't stay on topic of reaction.....so closed.