Trad Gang

Well things are heating up around my stand. I had a small 8 point within 5 yards but I could not shoot because Texas has a new law that says all bucks have to be 13 inches wide. I let him walk twice and then two Does came by at about 20-25 yards I let one fly only to cut white hair from underneath her. No blood what so ever I think she will have a bald spot for awhile. I think I pay enough to hunt here in Texas why do we have to have antler restrictions? You can't eat horns.  :coffee:

probbaly trying to get some quality deer in there management program . Its not all bad at least that 8 will be bigger next year and you can have bragging rights then of course any deer with trad gear is worth bragging about come to think if it  .   :thumbsup:

What county do you hunt in?  The antler restrictions have been around several years. I guess they are just expanding them to more counties now. Overall, I think your average buck size and age will increase due to the regs.  

Many places need these kind of rules since the average buck gets blasted when he's a year and a half old.

Keep after them.  Maybe you'll kill a nice big buck later in the year.

Brett

QuoteI think I pay enough to hunt here in Texas why do we have to have antler restrictions? You can't eat horns.  

I feel ya man. Imo it all boils down to money.    

i'm revising my original post.  i don't disagree w/ a lot of the aspects of "Quality Deer Management".  i do, however, dislike the fact that i'm currently working my way towards building my own selfbow... my own rivercane arrows... my own broadheads (eventually stone)... etc.  i hunt a private tract of land where it's not about "bragging rights" or a competition between hunters.  it's about challenging YOURSELF and about having a good time hunting.  so many have made this a contest between hunters to see who can grow and "harvest" the largest body size/antler sized deer.  i'm afraid, in doing so, so many (including the state) have put less emphasis on hunting, and more on harvesting.  this is not cattle... it's wild deer.  i say, let's keep 'em wild and, as far as it doesn't hurt the overall population, keep the restrictions to ourselves.  just my 2cents...

I for one am grateful for the law.  We have a lease in Burnet, Texas(Heart of the Hill Country)and the landowner, a State Wildlife Biologist, has set us up with similar restrictions.

We also hunt in Leon, County where this will be the second year for those restrictions as a county. While it is not a requirement in Burnet, we plan to be on this bowhunting only lease for at least four to five years, so the benefits are obvious.  

You too will see the difference it will make in the next two years.  That will place four good years under your belt working with these rules.  Those 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 year old deer that you are letting walk now, will be in their prime in a year or two, provided you have good genetics, and good browse.  

I have just about gotten the other people on the lease to agree to a "protein" feeding program year around.  This area has a lot of potential, and I am sure your area has too.  If you hunt in the same part of Texas as Leon County, the Managed Lands program has worked wonders, but a lot of landowners didn't get on board, and many of the land parcels were too small.

It didn't make sense for farmer "A" to put his 200 ac plot on the management program when farmer "B" the next farm over didn't join. That often meant that when the deer crossed the fence, they were shot with little or no consideration to the age, sex, or whatever. For this reason I am glad the state stepped in to insure a  game management program would be benefical to all concerned.

Hang tight, you will soon reap the rewards of your patients.

I felt the same way. A few days ago I had a real Bruiser run by me at 20 yards in Houston County. This was a Pope and Young type buck. Remember that spikes are still legal as well as does. I believe in a year or two you will change your mind as I did.

hoebow,

What part of the state are you hunting?  No restrictions where I hunt and we have the potential for 160+ bucks.  I think in the long run you will appreciate the restrictions because the quality will begin to get better.

Brett

You might have missed the buck also.I would rather shoot a doe than a small buck now b/c I have killed many small bucks.I am not a trophy hunter at all but I think good mang. if you don't kill the easy bucks and take out does.My sons in law havn't killed many deer so I let them shoot one buck of their choice then let them walk if small and we have doe tags.You will see the results soon if you let the small ones walk.Kip

I think TPW is trying to increase the average age of the bucks killed.  That is,  trying to lessen the number of 1.5 year old bucks killed.

Hoebow, I am in agreement with you.  I do not hunt for a mount on the wall.  I hunt to provide sustenance for my family.  I am not above admiring a large rack, however I am much more happy with a tender steak.  Just wanted to let you know I feel your pain here in SC.  Which by the way has antler restrictions on the public land in the game zone in which I hunt.  :banghead:

I can understand your frustration but honestly, it's hard for me to feel real sorry for you guys that live/hunt in south Texas when the whitetail season in my county and  most surrounding counties is archery Oct 1st - Nov 2nd then general season Nov 17- Dec 4. No anterless without a permit in regular season. That's right two whole weeks general season(longbow for me.) The rut is just getting into full swing and season is over up here. You guys see more deer on your way to church than we see in an entire season of hard hunting. Oh yea, my license costs the same as yours!  Thankfully, at least on occasion, I'm able to go down south and hunt now and then. I still love Texas.

I`ve lived in Texas all my life and have always thought the Texas Parks and Wildlife Dept. Has their head up their a$$. We were one of the last states to allow doe harvest and that was only after the hill country had buck/doe ratios of one to forty. Then there was the spike kill program and then there was the spikes ar`nt all bad program. I live in Williamson county,the fastest growing county in the nation. Growth equates to habitat loss and weve been shorted a tag for the last ten years,now antler restrictions.Sun Citys deer trapping budget is 40,000 dollars a year. Subdivisions are on WM permits and the Corp Of Engineers propertys are giving out tags like candy to take care of the over population that the T.P.and W. caused. And in the big buck countys of south Texas where they have worried about doe over population for decades you get an extra buck tag-go figure. And as for antler restrictions on spread that means you leave the narrow spread bucks in the herd to bred your does and pass those narrow spread genes on and in the years to come you have more narrow spreads than ever. I`ve always said they make more regulations to make people think they are doing something,maybe not good but something.

Sillly, silly law's...these antler restiction's have never worked in the long run, 5-10 years alls great, after 10-to 20 years of targeting the cream of the crop, the gene pool is washed out by the smaller/poorer gened bucks, EVERYWHERE trophy management of this type has been done long term results are the same...BAD FOR THE OVER-ALL HERD HEALTH...And how many 11"-12" bucks are left in the field????or one's that are a point shy of "legal"??? I found 3 4 pointers last year here in NY left in the woods to waste because they didnt have "at least 3 points on one side" per new regs... Your deer tag is something you have worked for and earned, a priviledge. And you should be able to take any sized deer YOU want, it's your hunt... Sorry for the rant...Back to normal now hehehe

Restrictions for fish OK. Fish in one hand and rule in other. 17.5" fluke's back in water. Imagine that? But this is a good thing due to overfishing.
I doubt Texas is over hunted.
How the hell can one determine between a 12" and 13"? I guess I have to add besides a bow mounted range finder a gauge to thats shows a 13" spread.
Wonding how to mount with a cant.
Probably fine for gap shooters who hold long, but how can us poor instinctive shooters shoot instinctively with this law. :confused:
Thanks the Lord I'm in N.Y.  No crazy laws and still great deer hunting.

kingstaken, most of east texas and part of central texas IS over hunted, there are way to many "good ol boys" left in texas that think hey "i have been hunting on this land for 40,50,60 years i am going to shoot what i want". and they kill everything they see day or night

i think most of texans landowners believe this is a blessing, they are seeing huge deer in places they were lucky to see deer,
the only thing i think they should change is put an age limit on the deer, like you can shoot any deer 4.5 yr or older that would eliminate the culls hopefully one day they will not require the limits and they will be removed

i have to disagree.  we do need laws to help keep deer populations in check... not too few... not too many.  but for the state to implement an "Antler Management" plan is just sticking their nose somewhere it shouldn't be.  this is HUNTING... not farming...
i'm one of those east texas good ol' boys.  i don't, however, shoot anything i see day or night.  i happen to like hunting for a bigger buck, but i don't think it needs to be forced down people's throats.  how many wonderful hunts are there in this forum that ended up with bucks that wouldn't meet this minimum???  to rewrite those stories to would, in my opinion, be a shame...

Of all the states I've lived in, Texas is the most expensive for residents to hunt.

We don't have the antler restriction out here.  I personally like the younger bucks for the better quality of MEAT.

Thanks Tradgangers. I felt like I got alot of good feedback. I Hunt in central Texas, Bell and Coryell counties. I want to let you know some of the drawbacks to the antler restictions. On Fort Hood one of the places I hunt if you kill a small buck it is a automatic 500.00 fine, confication of pretty much what they want to take and being banned from hunting on post for the remainder of the hunting season. I have a hunting buddy that stuck one the second day of bow season. When we got to him my buddy put the tape measure on him 11 and 1/8 inches wide. He said it looked 13 inches to me in the tree. Well needless to say the coyotes ate well that night. He was not going to risk the fine so the deer went to ruin. How many times is that going to happen this year with those so called "good for you antler restrictions" Whether you think my buddy should've past the buck or not, This will happen alot and no one will ever know how many.

13 inches is outside the ears.  If it's close, let it walk.

I've hunted under these type of restrictions on our place and have never had a problem.

Mike

hoebow,

I agree with you on what will happen. I believe there will be a lot of coyote food around this year. Lots of folks here will ground check the deer. Sadly, that's just the way some folks are.

I personally don't agree with the law, especially during bow season...I can see it  during gun season, because most gun hunters have scopes on their rifles and has time to make a calm decision.... Where I mostly hunt during bow season, it's thick and decisions have to be made in a split second.....I don't like throwing a measuring stick in my head when everything happens all at once.

They are  ALL  trophies to me.

Mike

I'm all for deer management. That being said in PA we have a 3 point to one side or greater rule in most of the counties. Some are 4 points to a side. The reason the game commission gives is to let bucks get older and bigger. The problems is what about the 3 or 4 year old spike. I've seen spikes with 11" spikes. These deer aren't going to get bigger most of the time. Then you have the 1.5 year old 5 point that is legal. If the states want to get into management then do it right. Teach people what a mature deer looks like. Look for the Roman nose, sway back full belly, etc.
I'm still trying to get my son his first deer. I don't care if its a doe, fawn, spike (which is legal for youth)or a P&Y buck. I know it'll be a trophy to both of us.
Let us make the decision what is a trophy not what is legal. Thanks for letting me vent.

Right on Rawhide, chessieboy
Thanks Hoebow

I have to add.  I have a friend that is on a "all Bowhunting" lease.  The owner got everyone together and got everyone to agree to get the property on a "MLD 3", managed land program becuase everyone was shooting whatever.  This is a low fenced property...it has been a few years but this is the stuff they are producing now and the population has grown to the point that 60 - 90 does HAVE to be taken off a year.  I believe in it under the right circumstances (big enough property, low fence...etc.)

(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z39/stick_string/taj2007100.jpg)

(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z39/stick_string/taj2007065.jpg)

Stick-string...very nice deer there today.... in 15-20 years there will only be scrubs and spikes under that feeder and folk's will be wondering what happened to the herd....

Pure greed. We should be allowed to take what buck we are happy with. This big horn thing has went way crazy. What happened to accepting the blessing that was presented.If you want to put in the time and effort to hunt the big one that is ok, but if you want a weekend of fun and shoot the first thing that walks by then that is ok too. Why does the state have to get involved? The goverment doesn't run anything very effective.

hickry, good post.

hoebow, you make a good point....Van

The MLD program is another ill thought out program of the TP&W.They have allowed high fenced ranches under this program to practically turn into zoos. And what happens on a low fence place when you kill off your 60 to 90 does and the neighbors place has more does than your place,where are your bucks gonna go then. They need to let nature be nature. Just pass up your young bucks if you want to and wait for a bigger one. Thats the only management tool you need.

I feel your pain, I live in Cen. TX and had a 9pt that is 11 1/2 -12" wide and 14-15" high. It looked to be 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 years old and not a legal deer.

Texas Trophy Hunters

I like the new rule  It keeps most of the young bucks from getting shot. We have had the law for about 4 or 5 years. We are seeing a big change in our herd.

I am a meat hunter, but I love antlers.  Trophy's should be rare.  That is one reason why any deer with a traditional bow is a trophy.  It doesn't happen often, of course there are a few people who consistently shoot multiple deer a year with trad gear.  

Buck hunting is the same concept.  What was once a trophy, a mature 8 pointer measuring 130 pts is now common.  With the changing of the rules, people just want bigger bucks.  On some films I have seen, they pass up shots at 130-150 class deer, which is a huge deer, to get a 160-180 class deer.  Both are trophy's and both taste about the same!  

I really don't have a stance on whether or not I agree with the antler restrictions.  They will suck for people that have to pass on shots, but all will reap the benefits later.

I get a little confused on this site sometimes...some on here say trad hunters are better hunters cause the gear we use...but at the same time say...I want to shoot what ever moves.  I could be wrong but I think the "shoot what ever moves" or "shoot what ever we want" theory is what got the government regulating deer seasons in the first place.   :knothead:  Not to mention the governments regulations have helped increase the number of deer nation wide.   :thumbsup:

As for the MLD property...the hunters got together and decided to take nothing but 120 or better and look what the deer are turning into.  I dont care who you are...I believe that you would rather shoot something like what is in the photos than a spike (whether you like antlers or not).  I am a meat hunter as well, but if a spike and a one of those is standing there......I ain't looking at the spike.    :eek:  

Be blessed...

stick and string,
You are right some game laws are great. they enhance the outdoors.The game laws you reference where enacted at the turn of the century. If you shoot deer all year long pretty soon there is not many left. What I am getting at is totally different. When I was a kid you could kill 5 deer 2 bucks and 3 does, here in texas. Then they said don't kill spikes they become big bucks,now they say you can kill them again.Then they said you can kill 1 buck 3 does, then it was 1 buck two does, now its 1 buck at least 13 inches and 1 buck that has one unbranched antler and two does. I can tell you that there is just as many or more deer now as there was 30 years ago when I was a kid. So what did all those regulations accomplish. At Ft Hood the largest buck ever taken there was in 1970.Some laws are great and I am all for them. Antler restrictions stink. I can't wait till next week and all those gun hunters try to tell 13 inches at a hundred yards. You know how many they are going to shoot walk up and put a tape measure on then walk away because they don't want the fine. If I was a coyote I would have to start an exercise program cause I am eating good next week.

I understand...but that responsibility belongs to the hunter, and if a he/she is willing to do that, it is on their own head.  Remember though that those restrictions are only in certain counties where they are "supposedly" trying to better the herd.  I hear what you are saying and can agree somewhat, but on the opposite side of things...what is a guy to do in Texas that cannot afford private land and wants to get a nice buck if everyone is shooting the first thing that twitches.  It does not allow him the opportinity to actually hunt and animal (specific animal) and test his skills...just food for thought.    :campfire:  Be blessed.

Well,
I have made a mistake. I must first tell all of you how sorry I am and I really didn't mean for any harm I was just trying to make a point. Here is the truth. earlier in this post I said that a hunting buddy of mine had shot a buck on the second day of bow season that did not meet the antler restrictions. That is not true I lied. I said it happened this year trying to make a point. What really happened was my hunting buddy shot  the deer last year and voluntarily took the illegal deer in himself. The fort hood authorities took the deer and issued no fines because they said it was the first year of the new antler restrictions. It never happened this year. I lied about it in my earlier post. I am ashamed, embarrassed, and down right humiliated. Its all my fault and I ask that you forgive the sin. I have ask the lord about it and I know he has forgiven me. I think this whole thing is his way of getting my attention. He has it. I commit to you that this sin will never come to me again. I am sorry to my friends and family for the disappointment they must feel